Where is the sanity?

N_D_Fighting_Irish

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Golson, himself, said in an interview that he fell way behind, in learning the playbook, because he had to adjust to the academic demands of ND.

If you don't know what you don't know, then occam's razor does not apply.

Such a disingenuous reply. I will ask again. What are the other explanations (besides Kelly F'd up) as to why Rees was the only QB to get playing time rain or shine?

By the way, occam's razor does apply.
 

kmoose

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Such a disingenuous reply. I will ask again. What are the other explanations (besides Kelly F'd up) as to why Rees was the only QB to get playing time rain or shine?

By the way, occam's razor does apply.

I don't know. I do know that one possible explanation for Golson not seeing any PT is that he was way behind, in learning the playbook. It's likely that Kelly decided to let him run the scout team, giving Golson "extra time" to learn the playbook, and also allowing him to spend time in the weight room.
 

kmoose

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Uhhh how about "thanks for the input, Bear Bryant!!" That was a pretty **** thing to say for starters.

Definition of BERATE


transitive verb


: to scold or condemn vehemently and at length

So calling you Bear Bryant is scolding you vehemently and at length? Or it's condemning you vehemently and at length?
 

N_D_Fighting_Irish

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I don't know. I do know that one possible explanation for Golson not seeing any PT is that he was way behind, in learning the playbook. It's likely that Kelly decided to let him run the scout team, giving Golson "extra time" to learn the playbook, and also allowing him to spend time in the weight room.

I don't know either definitively but that is the simplest explanation that makes any sense to me.

I watched a couple of bowl games and it dawned on me that Rees would not be the starter on any of those teams. Does that thought exemplify the excellent coaching of Kelly or the insanity of Kelly? Could another coach get as much as Kelly has gotten out of Rees? Could another coach tolerate, as Kelly has done, the turnovers, limitations, and poor performances?
 

dshans

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Well, I just watched the ball drop at Times Square, so Happy New Year. It may be 11 PM here in Minneapolis, 10 PM in Denver, 9 PM in L.A. but I'm calling it. I'm now free to pack it in or party like it's 1999.
 

Domer4ever

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So calling you Bear Bryant is scolding you vehemently and at length? Or it's condemning you vehemently and at length?

The tone of your post was scolding/condemning (just like many of your posts I have seen) and the Bear Bryant comment was you just being a ****.

But hey, you know it all and everybody else is just irrational right?
 

kmoose

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The tone of your post was scolding/condemning (just like many of your posts I have seen) and the Bear Bryant comment was you just being a ****.

But hey, you know it all and everybody else is just irrational right?

LOL. I certainly don't know it all. And I pretty readily admit it. I wish others would do more of the same. I'm not the one who is adamant that my interpretation of the QB situation is the only one. So who is playing "know it all"?
 

BobD

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I think if someone who didn't know our record this season started reading some of these threads they'd swear we were 5-7 and didn't make it to a bowl game.
 

Domer4ever

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LOL. I certainly don't know it all. And I pretty readily admit it. I wish others would do more of the same. I'm not the one who is adamant that my interpretation of the QB situation is the only one. So who is playing "know it all"?

I am not adamant that my interpretation is the only one either, but I am basing my interpretation on what transpired in front of everyone's very eyes along with what we do know....and not some mythical explination that may or may not exist to cover Kelly's behind.
 

Jerry

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Such a disingenuous reply. I will ask again. What are the other explanations (besides Kelly F'd up) as to why Rees was the only QB to get playing time rain or shine?

By the way, occam's razor does apply.

Because Rees gave ND the best chance to win the next game, the next series and next snap. It might have taken Dayne 2 or 3 games to get comfortable. Hendrix maybe 6 and Golsen more. Whether it was the pressure of Notre Dame or just the pressure Kelly expects of his own teams he didn't even give Crist an entire game to prove himself. It's the constant win the next snap attitude that may shoot the program in the foot for next season with a dreadful QB situation.
 

Rocky2820

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Because Rees gave ND the best chance to win the next game, the next series and next snap. It might have taken Dayne 2 or 3 games to get comfortable. Hendrix maybe 6 and Golsen more. Whether it was the pressure of Notre Dame or just the pressure Kelly expects of his own teams he didn't even give Crist an entire game to prove himself. It's the constant win the next snap attitude that may shoot the program in the foot for next season with a dreadful QB situation.

Agreed that this was the thinking, and what concerns me is that this same logic could potentially be applied to the start of the 2012 season. Rees is not the long-term answer IMO, and with Hendrix and Golson having 3 and 4 years of eligibility respectively, a long-term view needs to be taken with the QB position.
 

phork

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I think if someone who didn't know our record this season started reading some of these threads they'd swear we were 5-7 and didn't make it to a bowl game.

12 points is the difference between 5-8 and 8-5.

Because Rees gave ND the best chance to win the next game, the next series and next snap. It might have taken Dayne 2 or 3 games to get comfortable. Hendrix maybe 6 and Golsen more. Whether it was the pressure of Notre Dame or just the pressure Kelly expects of his own teams he didn't even give Crist an entire game to prove himself. It's the constant win the next snap attitude that may shoot the program in the foot for next season with a dreadful QB situation.

Knowing what I know now I would have no problem throwing Hendrix in for the year.
 

phork

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Numbers, schnumbers. 11 points is also the difference between 8-5 and 11-2. Tomato, tomata.


I am not disagreeing with you. But for everyone so high on being 10-2 and headed to the BCS, we were just as close to 5-7 and home for the holidays.

Exactly. We're 8-5. End of story. The what-ifs are pointless because they could go either way.

See above.
 

returnofthemack

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I think if someone who didn't know our record this season started reading some of these threads they'd swear we were 5-7 and didn't make it to a bowl game.

I think they would accurately predict that we are very disappointed. There is no way you can be satisfied with after having been ranked #16 in the preseason, losing to an inferior scUM team for the third time in as many years, getting rocked by USC, and then finding a way to lose against FSU. I don't give a damn about the meaningless bowl game. And I wouldn't have cared if we lost to FSU while showing some semblance of improvement, competence, or just that the month of preparation was put to good use. We might as well have gone 5-7. The defense has gotten much better, and can only get better with Gary Gray gone. The offensive line play is solid, as is the running game. However, the QB position is even weaker than it was last offseason, and the presence of one of the all-time great college football wide receivers was utterly wasted.
 

kmoose

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I think they would accurately predict that we are very disappointed. There is no way you can be satisfied with after having been ranked #16 in the preseason, losing to an inferior scUM team for the third time in as many years, getting rocked by USC, and then finding a way to lose against FSU. I don't give a damn about the meaningless bowl game. And I wouldn't have cared if we lost to FSU while showing some semblance of improvement, competence, or just that the month of preparation was put to good use. We might as well have gone 5-7. The defense has gotten much better, and can only get better with Gary Gray gone. The offensive line play is solid, as is the running game. However, the QB position is even weaker than it was last offseason, and the presence of one of the all-time great college football wide receivers was utterly wasted.

1. There were a LOT of people on this board who didn't buy into the #16 ranking. I'm assuming that you did. That's on you.

2. As far as Gary Gray leaving.......... Gary Gray has been an absolute STUD, in run support, for the last season or two. I'm thinking it was the Purdue game, last year, that Gary Gray almost single-handedly kept us in the game, in the first quarter. His open field tackling stopped at least a half dozen plays that could have gone for 20+ yards, in just the first quarter. Without Gray's effort, the game would have been essentially over, after only the first 15 minutes of play. He's not a great cover corner, but he DOES bring something to the defense that adds value to it. The defense could certainly be weaker with him gone.

3. The offensive line play was solid, for most of the season. Stanford went through it like a hot knife through butter. Two of Rees' fumbles this year were the direct result of being blindsided by a defender that might as well have been completely unblocked. So there's certainly room for more consistency there. Or maybe they have been consistent, and just aren't good enough to play with the top defenses.
 

returnofthemack

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I most certainly did not buy into the #16 ranking, but I definitely expected ND to stay in the Top 25 for most of the season, was that unreasonable? I don't think so.

To say Gary Gray isn't a great cover corner is like saying a hurricane is a light drizzle. I will give him props for being a solid open-field tackler, but if he had been even mediocre in pass coverage, we would have beat scUM. I can live with some missed tackles as long as rainbow passes are deflected. No respectable corner should be beat by a Denard "long bomb".

The offensive line was solid, which is what I said. Obviously, they need work, as does every single aspect of this team. However, solid recruiting has provided a very nice foundation, and I'm not too worried about it. BobD just made it sound like we had a very respectable season and that people were mad we hadn't won the championship. A respectable season would have been 9-3/4 WITH IMPROVEMENT. I would have been fine with that, and in fact, I predicted 9-4 and a finish in the 20s of the final Top 25. As I said, there was improvement defensively and in some aspects of the offense. However, at no point was it shown that improvement had been made with the receivers and certainly not with the QB. Even those who believe Kelly poops rainbows and pots of gold cannot say that's not true.

I am not one of the ND fans who expects a BCS bowl every season. My freshman year was 2007, and my optimism was quickly drilled out of me. However, I expect competence and improvement, as do the other posters on this site. This is why I chafed all season long at the use of the phrase, "he (Rees) gives us the best chance to win now" or variants thereof. I didn't care how many game we won now/this past season. I wanted improvement to set up for the coming years. No reasonable person expected a championship from ND in Kelly's second year. However, it was a valuable opportunity to establish the QB position and provide crucial experience for the more important 3rd and 4th years of his coaching tenure. That is why I'm disappointed.
 
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BobD

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I would have loved it if we could have done better, but I can live with the fact that we finished with a winning record. There are not too many schools or coaching staffs that could accomplish what we did this year if they had to uphold the same standards Notre Dame does.

Our future is looking very bright! Go Irish!
 

DillonHall

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I am not one of the ND fans who expects a BCS bowl every season. My freshman year was 2007, and my optimism was quickly drilled out of me. However, I expect competence and improvement, as do the other posters on this site. This is why I chafed all season long at the use of the phrase, "he (Rees) gives us the best chance to win now" or variants thereof. I didn't care how many game we won now/this past season. I wanted improvement to set up for the coming years. No reasonable person expected a championship from ND in Kelly's second year. However, it was a valuable opportunity to establish the QB position and provide crucial experience for the more important 3rd and 4th years of his coaching tenure. That is why I'm disappointed.

A perfect post if there ever was one (from my point of view, of course).
 

dshans

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Notre Dame football
Loyal fans rabidly crow
Sanity takes flight
 

irishtrain

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Here's some sanity for you and a comment on the QB position. Most of the time I judge a football fan by how soon he goes to the QB problem as the reason his team is not getting it done. There is way too much overplay in the Qb problem card. EXCEPT at Notre Dame right now-it is the issue. This team is good/maybe very very good. The play I saw against FSU was at times-championship material. Do not waste this defense next year and probably another good o-line with a spectacular break/away back with Qb play that holds them back. The weight room/coaching/etc is starting to show on the rest of the team but you better buck up and find/teach/coach a kid to run this show or they're going to get their asses handed to them next year by maybe one of the toughest schedules ever in college football. When you emphasize a position like Kelly does a Qb you better have an ace back there. Notre Dame deserves a kid who matches the talent/leadership/guts as the rest of the team. Right now I dont see that guy. The position is the pressure cooker of college football-its Notre Dame-and you better be special.
 

Rocket89

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I just read through this thread and wanted to address two issues:

1. Someone, maybe a couple people, said ND didn't need to be rebuilt and that we were months away from being a great team. I couldn't disagree more strongly.

2. Kelly did not walk into a good QB situation here at ND. Yes he likely made some mistakes with playing Rees so much this year, but it's not the end of the world---especially when we've seen so much progress at other areas of the field and off the field.

Anyway, some more thoughts (and I get caught up in the hype and "We COULD be 10-2 or better next year as much as anyone):

I'd go even so far as saying that MNC and BCS bowls shouldn't be a concern

At least for next season and maybe 2013 too.

What I mean is, we likely incredibly underestimate the power of stringing together 8-5, 9-4, or even 10-3 seasons over a long period of time (5+ years).

On the other hand, we are talented enough at most positions to be a real power, but we know the tools (QB play, killer instinct, etc.) just aren’t there right now.

Therefore, it seems pretty obvious that Notre Dame desperately craves stability and consistency. Even the mouth foaming crazies have a hard time imagining Notre Dame having sub.500 seasons under Kelly—-and that is very important.

Certainly some will say “hurr duurrr look how far ND has fallen, we’re rewarding mediocrity.”

But look at the past 15 years….there’s EIGHT seasons either at, below, or one game over .500!!!

Notre Dame’s biggest problem pre-Kelly is that it couldn’t stay consistently good, not that it couldn’t have one-off 10-win seasons.

So as much as it might suck that with this talent Kelly might not go to a BCS bowl for a few years, being consistently good (winning 8 or 9 games a season) could do wonders for the program. I know it sounds weird, but I believe that.

I’ve been pretty vocal that Kelly should get a long time to rebuild this program—-like 7 or 8 years—-with the caveat that there’s no major scandals or a stink bomb season (or two). If you were to simulate 15 years of Irish seasons, Kelly will likely have a ton of good seasons and hopefully a truly special season or two.

That’s where I think expectations need to be reset.

We as ND fans are in no position to be ripping our hair out by back-to-back 8-5 seasons, and that’s something a lot of people (not many around here) can’t understand.

How can people be so upset when this program was 3-7, 7-6, 6-6 before Kelly arrived, with a bunch of crappy seasons in the decade prior as well? You can’t simultaneously bitch about how bad ND and the BOT have been with football, and then act like we just won a national title two years ago and Kelly is running the program off a cliff.

To reiterate, we need to get to the level where we’re consistently good, and then build off of that. No coach is ever going to come in here and consistently win 10 or 11 games every single year, nor right from the get-go.

So when you see a lot of the hair puller outters saying, “Kelly’s winning percentage is so and so and therefore history proves he will fail” they don’t get it anymore. They still think it’s 1964 and a great coach can come in and just turn this around in a matter of months.

What they should be focusing on is that no ND coach in the modern era has ever been able to string together consistently good seasons without looking awful every two years. But they don’t want to hear that.
 

WabashFalcon

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It's still gonna be another week or so before I start posting again. There is only so much insantiy I can handle.
 

UPMich_NDfan

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I just read through this thread and wanted to address two issues:

1. Someone, maybe a couple people, said ND didn't need to be rebuilt and that we were months away from being a great team. I couldn't disagree more strongly.

2. Kelly did not walk into a good QB situation here at ND. Yes he likely made some mistakes with playing Rees so much this year, but it's not the end of the world---especially when we've seen so much progress at other areas of the field and off the field.

Anyway, some more thoughts (and I get caught up in the hype and "We COULD be 10-2 or better next year as much as anyone):

what he said, great post!
 
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