Field turf and jumbotron

[adsnorri]

Just a quick question, why are the lines in the endzone a tradition? Whay do they mean and why are our traditions so boring? Lol lets get a huge leprachaun or shamrock in the middle of the field!!

 

[irishog77]

I certainly don't have data to prove it, but I would think that it's just another thing that a recruit thinks about when considering the football part of a decision of which school to attend. Again, it would simply add to the list of pros that are considered. I bet recruits that watched the spring game this year took pause when they saw our players on both sides of the ball slipping and sliding all over thei field. That was nasty and didn't look like alot of fun to play on.

Hurricane season essentially overlaps with football season. I'm sure there are recruits who don't want to be in Florida, Louisiana, etc. during hurricane season (and there are probably even a few out there that have passed on Miami, LSU, etc. because of that), but I bet it's not something the staff and recruits spend a lot of time discerning and discussing. If a kid is horrified of hurricanes, then there's probably nothing the school or staff can do to make him overlook it. It just wasn't meant to be. Plus, even if a hurricane dissipates, what about the effect of maybe getting 11 inches of rain on the playing surface? That makes for sloppy conditions. Some kids prefer natural surfaces to artificial surfaces and vice versa. If a kid is dead set on playing only on a specific surface and doesn't attend a school because of it, well, then it's probably not meant to be anyway.

 

[Damion704]

Thanks Ads

 

[BleedBlueGold]

I just find it hard to believe that BK comes in here and things just start changing overnight. The higher-ups at ND ultimately make these decisions and someone once reminded us that the people in position to vote for these changes are perhaps the biggest traditionalists in the network. For example, look back at how hard Coach Weis had to fight to get the university to allow EE's and set up a training table. Those aren't even a big deal compared to a jumbotron and ripping out the natural grass that's been a part of Notre Dame since the beginning.

I don't mean any disrespect to you or your informants, but until I hear it officially announced, I plan to harness my excitement.

 

[BGIF]

I just find it hard to believe that BK comes in here and things just start changing overnight. The higher-ups at ND ultimately make these decisions and someone once reminded us that the people in position to vote for these changes are perhaps the biggest traditionalists in the network. For example, look back at how hard Coach Weis had to fight to get the university to allow EE's and set up a training table. Those aren't even a big deal compared to a jumbotron and ripping out the natural grass that's been a part of Notre Dame since the beginning.

I don't mean any disrespect to you or your informants, but until I hear it officially announced, I plan to harness my excitement.

While you harness your excitement, let's put some things in perspective. Charlie Weis didn't lead the fight for a training table and things don't happen at ND overnight. That training table fight goes back at least to Parshegian. Under Monk there was frequent mention of Residentiality, the culture of the athletes and students commingled in dormitories. Athletes at ND live in accomodations like other students. ND's hasn't had Football Dorms like the Alabama's and Oklahoma's. The ND Administration wanted ND students to live and eat together. Athletic Dorms and a training table thwart that concept.

Holtz and Davie pushed for a Training Table but it wasn't until Father Jenkins took over that it became a reality.

The return of Night Games to ND is credited to Kelly by ND fans but once again it was Father Jenkins who ultimately made the decision to a night time kickoff. ND had stopped Night Games after an incident where a fan was injured by a drunken student running outside the stadium after a game (See Bearmann v Notre Dame, a landmark litigation case in Crowd Control and Risk Management). Drinking at ND has been de-empthasized at ND since Bearmann due to litigation exposure. It was the Jenkins Administration that took another look at night games.

Take a look at recent coaches. Monk hired Willingham. It was Jenkins as the "President-elect" who went to Monk and said, Willingham has to go and ND needs to hire a new coach -NOW. It was Jenkins behind the trip to Utah to try and hire Meyer.

Kelly isn't a Rockne demanding a new stadium or he would quit. I'm sure Kelly has strong desires and suggestions but it's Jenkins who has made changed the culture of the Adminstration at ND. Look at the Floyd ResLife hearing. The fans and media say it was Kelly's doing. They neglect to mention that months before the Floyd incident, the head of ResLife "retired". Monk's boy was no longer running the show. Floyd didn't get a pass as opponent fans like to suggest. Floyd was suspended consistent with UND policy for a semester of extracurricular activities and he served it in the semester the incident occurred. Going back to John Ceresani under Holtz went before ResLife before Spring Ball was suspended the FOLLOWING semester. That was retribution not character building.

There has been strong opposition to a jumbotron at ND since they were invented. If it comes about now, it will be because Fr Jenkins agreed where Monk wouldn't consider it. And for the record it was just Monk. Fr O'Donnell fought with Rockne, Hesburgh said no to Leahy's request for a leave of absence forcing his retirement. Then hired the freshman football coach, Terry Brennan to run the program. ND is no place for On The Job Training. ND had done that back in 1930 when Rockne died and the President hired Hunk Anderson AND cut scholarships as Hesburgh did under Brennan. Monk resented Holtz popularity as did O'Donnell with Rockne so when Holtz "retired" once again a low profile guy with no head coaching experience, Davie, was hired. Jenkins wants the ND program to be successful and is committed to making that happen.

 

[ND NYC]

GREAT POST BGIF

 

[North Buffalo Irish]

I'm sorry if this is a really stupid question, but what the hell is a "training table"? I've seen it mentioned around IE many times but I've never known what it is in reference to.

 

[Patulski]

Jenkins wants the ND program to be successful and is committed to making that happen.

Jenkins may want the football program to be successful, but the Trustees will tell him what to do. They have enormous power, since Notre Dame is so beholden to their wealth. Unfortunately, these trustees don't know much about football, but want to meddle in the process. They told Jenkins and White to hire Weis, a guy with zero head coaching experience and little college experience, then extended his contract after 5 games. At least now they told Jenkins and Swarbrick to hire a guy with college head coaching experience. Let's hope Kelly gets the job done.

Notre Dame should have a Director of Football Operations, who has extensive experience and knowledge hiring football coaches and overseeing the football operation, and who should make informed decisions independent from the Trustees. Instead we have Jenkins and Swarbrick, inexperienced errand boys who are told what to do by the Trustees. It is not a good business model.

 

[anarin]

I'm sorry if this is a really stupid question, but what the hell is a "training table"? I've seen it mentioned around IE many times but I've never known what it is in reference to.

Notre Dame adds training table

For those unfamiliar with what exactly a training table is, it is basically a “table” for athletes to eat at which contains different food from a standard cafeteria with a specific menu developed by the school’s nutritionist to provide maximum support to strength and conditioning work. In short, its a way of making sure athletes are eating the proper foods to supplement their weight training.

 

[North Buffalo Irish]

Notre Dame adds training table

Thank you!

 

[arahop]

Personally, I feel that field turf is long overdue. Notre Dame has more team speed than most of our opponents with the exception Usc and Michigan. The Irish are right on par with both of those teams give and take. It would be a huge advantage for the Irish to get this done.
A jumbotron IMO would also add to the gameday scene for fans and recruits. I love Notre Dame's tradition. The "times are a changing". If ND adds a jumbotron it has to be better in quality than other schools, not necessarily bigger. Go Irish

 

[Patulski]

Personally, I feel that field turf is long overdue. Notre Dame has more team speed than most of our opponents with the exception Usc and Michigan. The Irish are right on par with both of those teams give and take. It would be a huge advantage for the Irish to get this done.

I really don't care about the turf issue, but will say that when ND has had great talent we have no problems beating the fastest teams in the country on grass. Two that come to mind are Miami in 1988 and Florida State in 1993.

 

[irish1958]

I really don't care about the turf issue, but will say that when ND has had great talent we have no problems beating the fastest teams in the country on grass. Two that come to mind are Miami in 1988 and Florida State in 1993.

That is true. But the unsubstantiated rumor at the time was that Holt had the grass extremely well watered and very long.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

I really don't care about the turf issue, but will say that when ND has had great talent we have no problems beating the fastest teams in the country on grass. Two that come to mind are Miami in 1988 and Florida State in 1993.

Of course you can say that about running the option we could beat great teams as well, but things change. Turf is necessary now and hopefully it happens soon. If we had turf for Michigan in 2010 we would have won.

 

[Patulski]

That is true. But the unsubstantiated rumor at the time was that Holt had the grass extremely well watered and very long.

I was at the 1988 Miami game. The grass if anything was short. Ricky Watters and Rocket ran by Miami's defenders on long bombs, and Tony Rice was churning out DUST when he kept the ball, making hard cuts on option plays.

If you want proof, go to Ten Yard Torrent and download the game.

 

[Patulski]

Of course you can say that about running the option we could beat great teams as well, but things change. Turf is necessary now and hopefully it happens soon. If we had turf for Michigan in 2010 we would have won.

Both Ricky Watters and Rocket had 50+ yard passing completions in the 1988 Miami game. Rice's speed as a QB keeper threat on the option was another factor. You think anybody today is cutting at a sharper angle than Rice was then?

We had numerous elite skill players then. We don't now. If we don't upgrade to elite speed again, the turf won't matter any more now than it did then.

 

[ND NYC]

not sure if this has been mentioned yet but:











the grass is always greener on the other side.







carry on....

 

[NDOM]

UGH!

Mixed emotions for sure with me on this one.

#1) I hate to mess with tradition.......BUT we NEED field turf because the field just plain sucks.
#2) Jumbotron sounds so awesome and all but I'm not for it. Music, YES! Jumbotron, NO! I don't want to take away more scenery around ND stadium, just seems like it would be like a giant spaceship with a jumbotron I dunno.

But for SURE field turf. Keep the field the same though as far as design. Like I said, I don't really like to mess with tradition much.

 

[Me2SouthBend]

UGH!

Mixed emotions for sure with me on this one.

#1) I hate to mess with tradition.......BUT we NEED field turf because the field just plain sucks.
#2) Jumbotron sounds so awesome and all but I'm not for it. Music, YES! Jumbotron, NO! I don't want to take away more scenery around ND stadium, just seems like it would be like a giant spaceship with a jumbotron I dunno.

But for SURE field turf. Keep the field the same though as far as design. Like I said, I don't really like to mess with tradition much.

In NDOM's dream, the turf is a blend of Kentucky Blue grass and California Sensomile and he has season tickets front row. Carl Spagler is of course the head superintendent of the field.

 

[NDOM]

In NDOM's dream, the turf is a blend of Kentucky Blue grass and California Sensomile and he has season tickets front row. Carl Spagler is of course the head superintendent of the field.

LOL!!!!! Synthetic or not synthetic, I'm gonna smoke it anyway.

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

if we got turf, how does that change what we have on the field? I think it would look kind of dumb to have lines in the end zone of a turf... just curious as to your opinions on that

I'm with you. I never thought of the lines as 'tradition', just laziness. Indeed, we used to have decent end zone stuff. I could go for the script gaelic-like "Irish" in blue outlined in gold in the endzones, with a big ole white outline of a shamrock at the 50.

 

[irishog77]

Who was the poster that came up with all the different uniforms in the "What is the uniform surprise?" Maybe he can get to work on some field designs for us!

 

[arahop]

I really don't care about the turf issue, but will say that when ND has had great talent we have no problems beating the fastest teams in the country on grass. Two that come to mind are Miami in 1988 and Florida State in 1993.

Not my point. Just saying it will be an advantage against the Purdue's MSU's and so on. That was the Lou Holtz era. We need to change with the times.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Not my point. Just saying it will be an advantage against the Purdue's MSU's and so on. That was the Lou Holtz era. We need to change with the times.

I think MSU hates the FieldTurf idea the most. They'll no longer be able to plant their flag at our 35 yard line again. bwahahahahahahaha.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/n9wzrJhnxh8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Rocket89]

I really don't care about the turf issue, but will say that when ND has had great talent we have no problems beating the fastest teams in the country on grass. Two that come to mind are Miami in 1988 and Florida State in 1993.

However, now most other programs have better grass and better playing surfaces than those days. Notre Dame is still stuck with a crappy playing surface (back then everyone's was to a degree) while most of the northern teams play on pristine FieldTurf.

Your point would make more sense if other programs haven't upgraded their facilities, but they have.

I always think of the hockey analogy. Teams nowadays employ two state-of-the-art Zamboni's, combined with the best technology underneath the ice, and they have people come out and scrape the excess snow off the surface during TV timeouts. The result is a vastly superior playing surface to 20, 30, and 40 years ago.

Notre Dame is the team with a sh!tty zamboni, poor piping underneath, and we constantly play on a slushy, slow surface where the puck jumps all over the place and favors the less skilled team.

Those sub-par surfaces were fine back in the day because nobody knew any different. That's not the case anymore.

 

[tadman95]

I thought Notre Dame just opened a new state of the art hockey arena?

 

[Patulski]

However, now most other programs have better grass and better playing surfaces than those days. Notre Dame is still stuck with a crappy playing surface (back then everyone's was to a degree) while most of the northern teams play on pristine FieldTurf.

Your point would make more sense if other programs haven't upgraded their facilities, but they have.

I always think of the hockey analogy. Teams nowadays employ two state-of-the-art Zamboni's, combined with the best technology underneath the ice, and they have people come out and scrape the excess snow off the surface during TV timeouts. The result is a vastly superior playing surface to 20, 30, and 40 years ago.

Notre Dame is the team with a sh!tty zamboni, poor piping underneath, and we constantly play on a slushy, slow surface where the puck jumps all over the place and favors the less skilled team.

Those sub-par surfaces were fine back in the day because nobody knew any different. That's not the case anymore.

Notre Dame doesn't have a crappy playing surface. It was installed by George Toma, the most respected grass turf expert.

LSU uses a natural grass surface. Funny how they don't have a Zamboni surface, but that didn't stop them from being the best team in the nation. The Super bowls are played on grass surfaces. So, you're "****** Zamboni" characterization doesn't hold up under scrutiny when looking at high quality grass fields.

Furthermore, Synthetic fields require 1) additional infill, 2) irrigation because of unacceptably high temperatures on warm-sunny days, 3) chemical disinfectants, 4) sprays to reduce static cling and odors, 5) drainage repair and maintenance, 6) erasing and repainting temporary lines, and 7) removing organic matter accumulation. Not quite the simplistic, frozen water Zamboni picture you paint, is it?

As for our grass surface being an athletic disadvantage: Rocket would be Rocket, whatever the playing surface. We need more guys like that. LSU has them, which is why their fans aren't clamoring for another surface.

 

[NankerPhelge]

I'm neutral on the turf issue. Don't know much about it. But after being anti-jumbotron for a long time (based pretty much on being generally against jumping on the bandwagon of the latest fad), I have changed my mind. I've been to more games than I can count, and I will admit if your seats are too low and too close to one end or the other, it is really hard to see much of the game. So, as long as it complements the stadium rather than distracting from it, I'm all in favor. What I really, really, don't want to see with it, though, is to use it to tell brain-dead morons when to cheer and when not to. Our fans should be engaged enough and smart enough to know when to cheer without a giant teleprompter. One of the most disgusting things I ever experienced was traveling to West Lafayette to watch the Irish play P.U., and witnessing a bunch of neanderthal hillbillies screaming "Boiler Up! (an aside--what an asinine cheer) simply because the big electronic god in the sky told them too, not because they knew a damned thing about what was going on in the game (or, probably, even what that thing was that was happening down on the field in front of them).

 

[Rocket89]

Notre Dame doesn't have a crappy playing surface.

I almost stopped reading after I saw this. Almost.

It was installed by George Toma, the most respected grass turf expert.

Oh it was installed by Toma? Gee, nevermind then, all is well.

I didn't realize he was a magician who made thousands of people falsely lament at the state of the field inside Notre Dame Stadium.

It was a good name drop on your behalf, but even Toma himself has asked some tough questions concerning the state of the ND field.

LSU uses a natural grass surface.

Yes they do. They also play football in Louisiana where their field gets sun nearly year round and allows it to stay in terrific condition.

Funny how they don't have a Zamboni surface, but that didn't stop them from being the best team in the nation.

What is a "Zamboni surface?"

Is LSU's field a piece of crap?

No one, and certainly not me, is going to say a different field is going to make Notre Dame the No. 1 team in the country. We simply need a better field. This shouldn't have to be explained.

The Super bowls are played on grass surfaces.

Yes they are. And where are the Super Bowls played? Not in Northern Indiana.

So, you're "****** Zamboni" characterization doesn't hold up under scrutiny when looking at high quality grass fields.

The key phrase here is high quality grass fields.

You know what doesn't hold up to high quality grass fields?

Notre Dame Stadium's turf.

Furthermore, Synthetic fields require 1) additional infill, 2) irrigation because of unacceptably high temperatures on warm-sunny days, 3) chemical disinfectants, 4) sprays to reduce static cling and odors, 5) drainage repair and maintenance, 6) erasing and repainting temporary lines, and 7) removing organic matter accumulation. Not quite the simplistic, frozen water Zamboni picture you paint, is it?

Where did I say it would be easy to install and maintain a synthetic field?

If you want to discuss that, it shouldn't matter because Notre Dame should have the best playing surface no matter the price or difficulty of maintaining it.

Where did I say that maintaining an ice surface is anymore difficult or easy than maintaining a football field? Was that the point of my analogy?

As for our grass surface being an athletic disadvantage: Rocket would be Rocket, whatever the playing surface. We need more guys like that. LSU has them, which is why their fans aren't clamoring for another surface.

You missed the entire point of my post.

LSU fans aren't clamoring for another surface because they have one that works.

We don't (although it did show signs of improvement this year, but was still supbar).

Rocket wouldn't have been Rocket on that awful Stanford field, nor on some of the laughably bad surfaces the Irish have played on at home in recent years.

Don't worry, we can still recruit the next Rocket with a synthetic surface.

Trying to direct the conversation away from the state of the playing surface---going as far as to say that it isn't crappy---and redirecting toward "we need better players" isn't sufficient in my eyes. Go into the recruiting threads if you want to talk about that.

 

[Patulski]

I almost stopped reading after I saw this. Almost.



Oh it was installed by Toma? Gee, nevermind then, all is well.

I didn't realize he was a magician who made thousands of people falsely lament at the state of the field inside Notre Dame Stadium.

It was a good name drop on your behalf, but even Toma himself has asked some tough questions concerning the state of the ND field.



Yes they do. They also play football in Louisiana where their field gets sun nearly year round and allows it to stay in terrific condition.



What is a "Zamboni surface?"

Is LSU's field a piece of crap?

No one, and certainly not me, is going to say a different field is going to make Notre Dame the No. 1 team in the country. We simply need a better field. This shouldn't have to be explained.



Yes they are. And where are the Super Bowls played? Not in Northern Indiana.



The key phrase here is high quality grass fields.

You know what doesn't hold up to high quality grass fields?

Notre Dame Stadium's turf.



Where did I say it would be easy to install and maintain a synthetic field?

If you want to discuss that, it shouldn't matter because Notre Dame should have the best playing surface no matter the price or difficulty of maintaining it.

Where did I say that maintaining an ice surface is anymore difficult or easy than maintaining a football field? Was that the point of my analogy?



You missed the entire point of my post.

LSU fans aren't clamoring for another surface because they have one that works.

We don't (although it did show signs of improvement this year, but was still supbar).

Rocket wouldn't have been Rocket on that awful Stanford field, nor on some of the laughably bad surfaces the Irish have played on at home in recent years.

Don't worry, we can still recruit the next Rocket with a synthetic surface.

Trying to direct the conversation away from the state of the playing surface---going as far as to say that it isn't crappy---and redirecting toward "we need better players" isn't sufficient in my eyes. Go into the recruiting threads if you want to talk about that.

I went to every game and have been going since 1965. The field isn't crappy and is much improved from before Toma put in the new turf. I'm not going to get into a further pissing contest with you. We disagree. Let's move on.