Switch to the option or change the requirements for players to get in.

[DCirishfan]

I have been thinking about this for the past decade. For ND to return to a consistant BCS level contender I beleive these are our two best options( no pun intended) . I think BK is a good coach, I think CW was a good NFL o cordinator and a poor NCAA coach. That said coaching is not our major issue. I think we have to make one of these two choices and run with it, other wise we will all need solid gold helmets as we bang our collective celtic heads against the wall.

PS

Urban to OSU makes me a tad bit angry.

Cheers,

Matt

 

[irishog77]

I have been thinking about this for the past decade. For ND to return to a consistant BCS level contender I beleive these are our two best options( no pun intended) . I think BK is a good coach, I think CW was a good NFL o cordinator and a poor NCAA coach. That said coaching is not our major issue. I think we have to make one of these two choices and run with it, other wise we will all need solid gold helmets as we bang our collective celtic heads against the wall.

PS

Urban to OSU makes me a tad bit angry.

Cheers,

Matt

This was a big reason Tom Osborne got out of coaching while he still had some good years left in the tank. He saw the writing on the wall of where football was headed. And the option wasn't part of it. ND can and will win playing a 21st century style of football and maintaining high admissions standards. ND's biggest problem has been some guys named Bob Davie, George O'Leary, Tyronne Willingham, and Charlie Weis. There's nothing a good coach can't fix. Give it a little time.

 

[DCirishfan]

I used to agree with you but I don't anymore. We can't get the horses with our requirements. Coaches have changed results have stayed the same. Big time coaches ala Urban and Stoops won't touch us becuase they know the deal, talent wins. Now, the most effective football offense is the tripple option, especially when you are not as talented as other teams. While we might not be able to recruit the Mike Floyds we will still get money linemen, that is enough to keep us cometitive.

When I was growing up, ND always had the best lines against teams like Stanford. We could always run it down your throat or stop the run. That has to come back, or they need to free BK up like the did Dr. Lou, these are the two choices and the only two choices to change course. IMO


GO IRISH!

 

[Irish4Life09]

I used to agree with you but I don't anymore. We can't get the horses with our requirements. Coaches have changed results have stayed the same. Big time coaches ala Urban and Stoops won't touch us becuase they know the deal, talent wins. Now, the most effective football offense is the tripple option, especially when you are not as talented as other teams. While we might not be able to recruit the Mike Floyds we will still get money linemen, that is enough to keep us cometitive.

When I was growing up, ND always had the best lines against teams like Stanford. We could always run it down your throat or stop the run. That has to come back, or they need to free BK up like the did Dr. Lou, these are the two choices and the only two choices to change course. IMO


GO IRISH!

I'm sorry...but you're just flat out wrong. Please name for me a top program that runs the option.Please....I'll wait a minute.....
Have you not seen the talent ND has been able to bring in over the last 10 years? We've had plenty of top10 recruiting classes, we've brought in plenty of thoroughbreds....the problem,the only problem, is that we have had coaches since Dr. Lou that had absolutely NO idea what to do with them. Give it time.

 

[Buster Bluth]

The option is dead. Deal with it.

Brian Kelly is more than a "good coach." He is an excellent coach. He has won everywhere, without exception.

If you've really been thinking about this for a decade, then I would hope you have been watching Notre Dame football very closely for a decade. And if that is true, if you can't see how much better this program is under Kelly than Weis, Willingham, and Davie....I don't even know what to say.

 

[DCirishfan]

I really can't. I know Texas ran a sprint option that is similar to what BK might do sio I will wait. I think that marketing and the diffuculty recruiting that most top schools have with the option is the reason not lake of effiacy. Name me perninial top schools that have our restrictions.

 

[DCirishfan]

I love getting flamed for reasonable, well thought ideas. But whatever I expect it at times. Jeez.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I really can't. I know Texas ran a sprint option that is similar to what BK might do sio I will wait. I think that marketing and the diffuculty recruiting that most top schools have with the option is the reason not lake of effiacy. Name me perninial top schools that have our restrictions.

Restrictions? Some choose to look at Notre Dame admissions as standards, not restrictions. Have the standards been too hard in the past? Yeah, probably.

Notre Dame takes pride, and rightfully so, in having ~100% of its guys graduate. To do that, you need to take guys who can at the very minimum read, write, and construct a real thought. It makes no sense to take guys who don't have the credits, because they won't make it at Notre Dame anyway.

That said, if you'd simply look at Notre Dame's offers you'd see there is PLENTY of talent out there that the Irish can get through admissions these days. That is not the problem, that is an excuse some dumbass sportswriters ran with eight years ago.

 

[gspjeb]

um.....Stanford

 

[Buster Bluth]

um.....Stanford

They certainly don't qualify as perennial.

He's (probably) referring to USC, Oregon, Oklahoma, Texas, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Alabama, LSU, Georgia, and Florida.

I wouldn't be a fan of any of those programs. Notre Dame is different in ways off the football field and they rightfully take pride in that.

 

[DillonHall]

Restrictions? Some choose to look at Notre Dame admissions as standards, not restrictions. Have the standards been too hard in the past? Yeah, probably.

Notre Dame takes pride, and rightfully so, in having ~100% of its guys graduate. To do that, you need to take guys who can at the very minimum read, write, and construct a real thought. It makes no sense to take guys who don't have the credits, because they won't make it at Notre Dame anyway.

That said, if you'd simply look at Notre Dame's offers you'd see there is PLENTY of talent out there that the Irish can get through admissions these days. That is not the problem, that is an excuse some dumbass sportswriters ran with eight years ago.

Reps

 

[aubeirish]

It's not like Notre Dame hasn't been able to recruit. We have been recruiting easily in the top 20 for the past decade. Sometimes in the top 10. Yes recruiting is important, but it's common knowledge that's it's not been the problem. Poor player development and soft mentality have been. Kelly is clearly addressing those two things, but unfortunately, it's a lost cause in some cases. I believe things will get better as old habits are starting to fade away and as soon as the QB situation is stabilize.

 

[irishog77]

I really can't. I know Texas ran a sprint option that is similar to what BK might do sio I will wait. I think that marketing and the diffuculty recruiting that most top schools have with the option is the reason not lake of effiacy. Name me perninial top schools that have our restrictions.

If you're referring to the year UT won the NC, Vince Young THREW for 248 yards in that game! Plus, look at ALL the talent Texas had on their roster that year-- there were badazzes all over the field! Look at where some of those dudes were drafted and look at how many are on NFL rosters. Not to mention spectacular college players (Rod Wright- all-american DT but only a 7th round pick, I believe) that didn't make it. If Brian Kelly ever has a roster like that, ND will be just fine. And he can run whatever offense he wants to run.

 

[Dacian_Irish]

Every school has its down years and up years. We just so happen to be in quick sand for the longest time. Now that Brian Kelly is here he will get us out. This is the first time in a long time that I feel we are headed in the right direction. It all starts with the line of scrimmage and both lines are playing so much better. Give it time for the rest of the team to catch up.

What i think is hurting ND is not that they cannot get the talent (its obvious we can recruit kids here) it is what happens when they get here. While our athletes are held to high standards and they actually have to study, go to class, and really take a test. That puts so much stress and takes out so much energy out of our kids that when they get to practice they may not be ready to go 100%. I know this for sure. I went to ASU and barely any athletes went to school, I don't think any of them know what homework is. Most schools out there do not put academic stress on their kids like ND. That is why it will take longer here. Look will win but we have to be patient with Kelly! Remember we have student athletes!

 

[kmoose]

I used to agree with you but I don't anymore. We can't get the horses with our requirements.

GO IRISH!

Jimmy Clausen
Manti Teo
Michael Floyd
even though he didn't pan out: Sam Young

These were all HUGE recruits that EVERYONE wanted and ND pulled in, and three of them turned into serious studs in college football. We can still pull enough to compete at a BCS caliber level. We just haven't put it all together yet. It will happen.

 

[woolybug25]

I love getting flamed for reasonable, well thought ideas. But whatever I expect it at times. Jeez.

If your post was well thought out, then you are bat sh!t crazy.

You didn't elaborate on "why" you thought lowering standards would make us better or how running the option would mitigate it. You just made a blanket statement and proceeded to rattle off a non-coherent rant on coaches and how you don't like Urban at OSU.

This is a bad thread. Try harder next time.

 

[Irishnuke]

I love getting flamed for reasonable, well thought ideas. But whatever I expect it at times. Jeez.

It's not reasonable and I have to question how well thought out it is. It's basically the worst idea I've read on this board.

 

[Irish4Life09]

I have been thinking about this for the past decade. For ND to return to a consistant BCS level contender I beleive these are our two best options( no pun intended) . I think BK is a good coach, I think CW was a good NFL o cordinator and a poor NCAA coach. That said coaching is not our major issue. I think we have to make one of these two choices and run with it, other wise we will all need solid gold helmets as we bang our collective celtic heads against the wall.

PS

Urban to OSU makes me a tad bit angry.

Cheers,

Matt

Sorry DC, I like you....but you deserve this for this thread.
Billy Madison - Ultimate Insult (Academic Decathlon) - YouTube

 

[ulukinatme]

I wouldn't be terribly against going back to the option myself. It's a fact that teams with less talent can run the option effectively if they're disciplined and execute. If you thought Navy/Army did it well, imagine running the Option with the extra talent we have and close to the same discipline.

We have had top 10 classes, but it hasn't translated on the field due to coaching in previous years. If you look back to the last years we were really successful we ran Option a lot. Willingham moved us to a West Coast kind of offense, that never panned out. Weis brought in the Pro Style which was effective some years and miserable during others. The Spread has been kind of up and down too, and I wouldn't say we've run a true Spread as we've slowed it down and our QB hasn't been mobile.

Many offensive formations have come and gone, but the Option remains because it's tough to defend against and it doesn't require a playbook that's 2 inches thick.

 

[GowerND11]

I love the option. We ran the veer at my high school. The problem is in today's college football running the traditional option is, for the most part, obsolete. Now running a sprint option out of the spread CAN be effective. But remember these teams that run the sprint option out of the spread do not only run an option. They also have the ability to split five wide.

My point is the option is more effective now a days as part of an offense, not as the offense. We will be able to run options with athletic QBS (ex. Hendrix), but we will still split 5 wide in the same series.

 

[aubeirish]

Hendrix would be GLORIOUS in the option.

 

[Onemanwolfpack]

The option? Dude - you have a few more months to April Fools Day.

The option? Dude - you have a few more months to April Fools Day.

Hendrix would be GLORIOUS in the option.

Reading this ridiculous thread my head sounds a bit like an angry Allen Iverson during his 76'er press conference: "The option?? Man, are we really still discussing the option?!! The option?? Man - we are just talking about the option??" Or something to that effect.

The option has not been used by any significant power in over a decade at least and its hard for me to see how this would help us compete against the Texas, LSUs, USCs, Oregons, or other powerhouse programs - - especially if the assumption is that we cannot compete at a talent level. If used consistently, maybe you could make the argument it could help us beat the weaker teams on the schedule more consistently (which seemed to be more ofa a Weis problem than a Kelly one). Going any further than that is stretching it.

Recruiting at ND is not easy, but somehow we have managed to land top 20 classes consistently over the last decade. Rivals listed recruiting class rankings over the past decade or so and ND was in the top 15 - - even while playing very inconsistent football on the field. Recruiting is not the problem. You can blame tough scheduling, poor coaches, too much coaching turnover (poor leadership in the selection process), Reslife, player development, or just plain bad luck if you want to start a list of some reasons for our inability to consistently compete at a high level.

Please name our opponent tomorrow so we can focus on something more relevant to the future of ND football than inane posts like these.

 

[GoldenIsThyFame]

Is this real life?

 

[Buster Bluth]

Hendrix would be GLORIOUS in the option.

You don't think Kelly knows that? haha ~20% of the plays will have option built into them should Hendrix assume the roll of starting QB.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

It's going to be a long few months until Spring Game...

 

[ShamrockOnHelmet]

I'm not going to slam the OP, because this is a figgin message board, not the New York Times. The point is to kinda talk about how you feel, no matter how out there it might be. The OP is trying to commiserate with people who like the same team, so lighten up.

That said, I think we should give BK a few more years before abandoning the plan. I think Kelly has a solid plan, the recruits, and we think high caliber kids, are coming. If he can develop those players (which takes time) we should be a consistent top 10 team. Its too early. If we're still a fringe top 25 team in 4 or 5 years, it might be time to start thinking about these things for the sake of the program. But not yet. Being an ND fan is frustrating, has been for 25 years now. But hang in a little longer and lets see what happens.

 

[anarin]

I really can't. I know Texas ran a sprint option that is similar to what BK might do sio I will wait. I think that marketing and the diffuculty recruiting that most top schools have with the option is the reason not lake of effiacy. Name me perninial top schools that have our restrictions.

Texas is 7-4 this year and went 5-8 last year. Using them as an example for the option isn't a good idea.

 

[jason_h537]

Boy Stanford seems to be really struggling with the academic requirements.

 

[DCirishfan]

Stanford is really a perinial top contencer. Watch BCS footbal much They are hugely overaveted and will lose to many a quality opponent. We actually hired their coach once omg.

 

[DCirishfan]

Texas is 7-4 this year and went 5-8 last year. Using them as an example for the option isn't a good idea.

They run a sprint option not a tripple option which is what I am in favor of. Or of course we can let our accademic standards up so that we can actually compete. Oh yeah, we want the best of both worlds. Well, it won't happen so keep waiting.