Press Conference 10/15/2011 (Navy Week)

Whiskeyjack

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Would it be too bold to say we finish 9-3 with a solid win over Stanford ruining their BCS shot?

Very possible. Analogizing to last season, we're now at the season's nadir (post-Tulsa 2010). Navy will be our angry/ vengefully dominant performance (Utah 2010), and Stanford will be the shocking end of season upset (USC 2010). After which we'll blow out FSU in the Champ Sports Bowl.

Who wouldn't be pleased with a 10-3 season like that?

The only thing that has me worried is our DL. With KLM out for the season and EJ still not 100%, our rush defense may end up taking a big step backwards. EJ's absence against USC was painfully obvious.
 

TerryTate

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Good post from a guy (Irishcliff) on II Board:

Go do some research on coaches who have taken over mediocre programs, and look at their records the first 3-4 years. I'm not talking about Chip Kelly, who had a Ferrari handed to him, or Chris Peterson, who inherited a smooth-running system, or Les Miles, who is riding Saban’s coattails. (And look at what Jimbo Fisher inherited at FSU…. …woops).


I'm talking about guys who have had to re-build programs. Guys who have inherited programs that were 15-21 in the 3 seasons before they were hired (like ND).


The now legendary Jim Harbaugh took over a bad Stanford team, and went 4-8, 5-7, and 8-5 before his team took off in Year 4.


Speaking of Saban, arguably the best active college coach, it took him 5 years to get MSU to 9 wins. Then he went to LSU, and notched an 8-4 season his first year, then started 4-3 in Year 2 (just like ND), with losses to three rivals, including a 30-point hammering by Florida, before his team got on track.


Saban then took over a struggling Bama program, and even with JuCos and other “liberties” at his disposal, he went 6-6 in Year 1 (then they took off in Year 2, Saban’s 12th or 13th year as a D-I HC).


Dabo Swinney took over a team with a load of talent that was also underperforming. He went 4-3 (short year), 9-5, then 6-7 and fighting the hot seat before this season, Year 4, when he got enough of his guys in to make a splash.


I think we all consider Dantonio to be a pretty good coach and a guy who has clearly resurrected MSU. He went 7-6, 9-4, and 6-7 before hitting his stride in Year 4.


We all know guys like Mike Gundy, Bill Snyder and Frank Beamer have had long hard roads to becoming perennial Top 25 teams. Mack Brown started the same way at UNC, taking years and years to get the Heels to winning records.


Of course there’s guys like Chizik, Carroll, Stoops and Tressel who have had big-time success in Year 2, but they are the exception, and I think it’s safe to say that since three of those schools are currently on probation, and the fourth, Oklahoma, is arguably the worst offender of African-American graduation rates in the country, these schools have used some questionable methods to improve their teams quickly.


ND doesn’t take advantage of those methods (whether we should or not is a different argument), and so it will take longer.


Our head coach just had to spend some time in the past two weeks trying to re-build a stadium experience that fosters a home-field advantage. Urban Meyer didn’t have to do that when he took over Florida.


Now Kelly has to spend time to get Tee Shep back into the fold due to a math class issue. Saban isn’t dealing with this type of thing.


Brian Kelly has built three programs before, and he has faced big setbacks before. If you need proof he can do it at ND, just look at last season, when he got the team to win 4 straight after losing several winnable games, enduring multiple key injuries, and experiencing the awful death of a student manager.


Bottom line: It is the NORM for a program re-build to take several years when a) the program was at or below .500 for the previous several seasons, and b) the program isn’t going to compromise its values to get to the top.
 
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Buster Bluth

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Very possible. Analogizing to last season, we're now at the season's nadir (post-Tulsa 2010). Navy will be our angry/ vengefully dominant performance (Utah 2010), and Stanford will be the shocking end of season upset (USC 2010). After which we'll blow out FSU in the Champ Sports Bowl.

Who wouldn't be pleased with a 10-3 season like that?

The only thing that has me worried is our DL. With KLM out for the season and EJ still not 100%, our rush defense may end up taking a big step backwards. EJ's absence against USC was painfully obvious.

9-3 was the benchmark for me. If they win 9 or more games, I am content.
 

TerryTate

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Very possible. Analogizing to last season, we're now at the season's nadir (post-Tulsa 2010). Navy will be our angry/ vengefully dominant performance (Utah 2010), and Stanford will be the shocking end of season upset (USC 2010). After which we'll blow out FSU in the Champ Sports Bowl.

Who wouldn't be pleased with a 10-3 season like that?

The only thing that has me worried is our DL. With KLM out for the season and EJ still not 100%, our rush defense may end up taking a big step backwards. EJ's absence against USC was painfully obvious.

Schwenke, Houndshell, and Cwynar are going to see a lot more time. Glad Cwynar is back.
 

CarrollVermin

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Schwenke, Houndshell, and Cwynar are going to see a lot more time. Glad Cwynar is back.

Yeah, one of the positions that we thought we would be deep at has now started to thin out. Youth against the option is a scary proposition sometimes. Still, if you fire off the ball and are aggressive off the block you should have some success.
 

zemaniak

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I didn't even know Rivals ranked CFB teams. If you'd care to link to it, I'll happily look it over, but Football Outsiders' two computer models are the most accurate I've found thus far.



You didn't use a measuring stick. You just made vague references to our lack speed and our weakness in coverage. Thus my comment about hand-waving. The stats don't support your assertion.



As I've mentioned repeatedly, were it not for two ST miscues, we would have held AF to 9 points or less. Who cares how many yards they roll up if they're not putting points on the board? That's what the "bend don't break" is all about.

And yes, USC gashed us on the ground. Do you think that has more to do with a deficiency in Diaco's scheme or with injuries to our two starting DEs?



On what are you basing this statement? FO ranks us 26th against the pass and 29th on passing downs. It's not the strength of our defense, but it's hardly "weak".



Some of those are by design. We've schematically given up short passes to the edges against several opponents to force them to dink and dunk their way down the field. It's generally worked very well for us.



So our secondary is really atrocious, but they look better than they are because we keep getting lucky with dropped and missed passes? That's a credible argument; and of course that has nothing to do with our pass rush.



You should look up what Freudian slip means. I said we, like any other team, can only take away all areas of the field against teams we completely outclass-- i.e. FCS opponents, which we don't play. Thus, you generally don't see ND blowing out crap opponents by 66-0 because every team we play is good enough to beat us if we come out flat.

I agree that we're more talented than most teams we play, but that doesn't mean it's reasonable to expect defensive dominance.



I understand your position perfectly, and it's simply not supported by the objective statistical evidence. This is the best defense we've fielded since 2002. It still has serious flaws-- mainly a lack of experienced depth at DL and DB-- which hurt us big time against USC. But that lack of depth isn't on the coaching staff.

you're good at arguing, that's obvious.

I don't want to go fist to fist with you on this because more than 30 min during my day is already plenty that I have to catch up afterwards, but which I can;t without the missus getting angry cause I ain;t there to help with the kids.

Not asking for pity.

You have your stats, fine. I have whatever is readily available (Yard against, points against, rankings based on that). You argue those are inaccurate. Fine. I don;t have time to analyse and review yours. I look at every game, rewatch those that I can and that don;t **** me off too much, and my opinion also comes from what I watch. We NEVER stopped AF, they either scored or stopped themselves. We NEVER stopped USC. These are facts and they are very concerning. Before these two games I was relatively happy with Diaco's D because I thought we at least had 1 area of strength. We have since been exposed not only in the air , but also on the ground. I never called our DBs or LBs atrocious, I simply said we were weak in coverage. Our DLS are the same as last year, where we improved as the year advanced even though we lost Ian. Now we lose 1 (not two, unless you assume KLM was hurt from the start) DL starter and we stink? What about our vaunted Froshes, what about Cwynar, is the drop off that steep in your mind?

So yeah, based on readily available ino and my own two eyes, I base my opinion that I believe our D is too conservative/reactionary given our talent level and I state that this strategy is counterproductive, meaning I believe we have a good D IN SPITE of this strategy because of our talent level. I also believe that a defensive strategy that is too conservative can undermine the "killer instinct" that is required to truly form an "elite" defense, ie, one that challenges receivers, anticipates and closes in rapidly on the ball carrier and attacks the QB.

You accuse me of hand waving, I could accuse you of hiding behind your stats. Potato PoTAHto.

My OPINION is that we should be better than this. I never once called for a coach's head, but I do now have doubts about Diaco's strategy and ability to make adjustments during a game. If such talk is worthy of labeling me a NDNAtion candidate and reason to drive me out, then I truly feel bad for this forum if people aren't allowed to freely express themselves and disagree.
 
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woolybug25

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you're good at arguing, that's obvious.

I don't want to go fist to fist with you on this because more than 30 min during my day is already plenty that I have to catch up afterwards, but which I can;t without the missus getting angry cause I ain;t there to help with the kids.

Not asking for pity.

You have your stats, fine. I have whatever is readily available (Yard against, points against, rankings based on that). You argue those are inaccurate. Fine. I don;t have time to analyse and review yours. I look at every game, rewatch those that I can and that don;t **** me off too much, and my opinion also comes from what I watch. We NEVER stopped AF, they either scored or stopped themselves. We NEVER stopped USC. These are facts and they are very concerning. Before these two games I was relatively happy with Diaco's D because I thought we at least had 1 area of strength. We have since been exposed not only in the air , but also on the ground.

So yeah, based on readily available ino and my own two eyes, I base my opinion that I believe our D is too conservative/reactionary given our talent level and I state that this strategy is counterproductive, meaning I believe we have a good D IN SPITE of this strategy because of our talent level. I also believe that a defensive strategy that is too conservative can undermine the "killer instinct" that is required to truly form an "elite" defense, ie, one that challenges receivers, anticipates and closes in rapidly on the ball carrier and attacks the QB.

You accuse me of hand waving, I could accuse you of hiding behind your stats. Potato PoTAHto.

My OPINION is that we should be better than this. I never once called for a coach's head, but I do now have doubts about Diaco's strategy and ability to make adjustments during a game. If such talk is worthy of labeling me a NDNAtion candidate and reason to drive me out, then I truly feel bad for this forum if people aren't allowed to freely express themselves and disagree.

Whiskey should stop hiding behind his silly facts.

feelings are where its at!
 

zemaniak

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gimme a break

stats are facts if they are widely accepted as such, and even then:

Lies, damn lies and statistics ring a bell?

4-3, there's a fact/stat for you. FEEL better now?


nice attempt at sarcasm, "dude" , hope your avatar is one too
 

Whiskeyjack

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You have your stats, fine. I have whatever is readily available (Yard against, points against, rankings based on that). You argue those are inaccurate. Fine. I don;t have time to analyse and review yours.

Since you clearly enjoy analyzing and discussing college football, I'd strongly suggest you take a look at the rankings I'm referencing. The S&P is a play-by-play measure of production, and the FEI is a drive-based measure of efficiency. The F/+ combines both rankings.

I find them particularly useful because they're opponent-adjusted. Vanilla statistics that don't account for strength of schedule can obviously be very misleading, and these rankings don't have that problem.

I look at every game, rewatch those that I can and that don;t **** me off too much, and my opinion also comes from what I watch. We NEVER stopped AF, they either scored or stopped themselves.

That was by design. Diaco took away the deep ball and the easy yards up the middle, effectively daring Air Force to put together a long mistake-free drive with short gains. Most of the time, they couldn't do it. You saw drives ending in TOs and penalties and thought it was AF shooting itself in the foot, which it was to some extent. But it was also ND's gameplan.

Effective defensive schemes don't have to be super aggressive, with lots of TFLs and INTs. All three of our losses this year have come against teams using the "bend don't break" philosophy.

We NEVER stopped USC.

We did, in fact, stop SC several times. Our inability to stop their run is what killed us, and given our past success at stuffing pro-style rushing attacks (USC 2010, MSU 2011, etc.) I'm more inclined to chalk that up to key injuries on our DL than Diaco's scheme.

Our DLS are the same as last year, where we improved as the year advanced even though we lost Ian. Now we lose 1 (not two, unless you assume KLM was hurt from the start) DL starter and we stink?

EJ didn't play at all, and Cwynar didn't play well. Whether Cwynar's play was affected by Lynch, I don't know. But USC ran right at Lynch repeatedly, and unsurprisingly, Lynch didn't have the strength, endurance, or discipline to stop USC's rush. KLM limped off before USC's final drive where they ran the ball repeatedly for big gains; so yes, a large chunk of USC's rushing yardage came with both of our starting DEs out of the game. Is that Diaco's fault?

What about our vaunted Froshes, what about Cwynar, is the drop off that steep in your mind?

Cwynar's poor play against USC is a concern; I suspect Lynch's weakness against the rush affected Cwynar's effectiveness, but I don't know for sure.

Anyone who expected Tuitt and Lynch to immediately be run-stuffing monsters like EJ and KLM doesn't know much about the 3-4 and two-gap responsibility.

So yeah, based on readily available ino and my own two eyes, I base my opinion that I believe our D is too conservative/reactionary given our talent level and I state that this strategy is counterproductive, meaning I believe we have a good D IN SPITE of this strategy because of our talent level. I also believe that a defensive strategy that is too conservative can undermine the "killer instinct" that is required to truly form an "elite" defense, ie, one that challenges receivers, anticipates and closes in rapidly on the ball carrier and attacks the QB.

Which brings us back to my earlier point. You apparently feel like an aggressive 4-3 with CBs in press coverage is the only way to play "elite" defense, and you're simply wrong. That's not how a 3-4 is designed to work, yet lots of top NFL and CFB teams use it to great effect.

You accuse me of hand waving, I could accuse you of hiding behind your stats. Potato PoTAHto.

Hand-waving means (among other things) making an argument with vague generalities instead of specific examples/ evidence. I pointed to objective statistics that support my position and contradict yours. I'm not sure how you think those two things are equivalent.

My OPINION is that we should be better than this.

You share that opinion with every reactionary and delusional Luddite over at NDNation who believes that we've currently got national championship talent languishing on the roster, if only that one magical coach would come to ND and bring us back to single-wing, leather helmets, and good ole-fashioned power footbaw. This crowd has been a loud and obnoxious minority for at least 20 years.

They don't understand the depths to which ND's program has sunk during that period. Kelly's in the midst of a major rebuilding project. We won't know if he's got what it takes until 2013-2014 probably.

I never once called for a coach's head, but I do now have doubts about Diaco's strategy and ability to make adjustments during a game.

IIRC, ND's defense hasn't given up a 3rd quarter TD all season. Man, Diaco really sucks at making adjustments. With the exception of Navy in 2010, there hasn't been a single Xs and Os loss during Kelly's tenure.

If such talk is worthy of labeling me a NDNAtion candidate and reason to drive me out, then I truly feel bad for this forum if people aren't allowed to freely express themselves and disagree.

Whether you'd be better suited at NDNation is yet to be seen. I've presented you with arguments and evidence that: (1) Kelly's staff has improved this team dramatically (especially Diaco's defense); (2) ND's defense is actually much better than you think it is; and (3) Diaco's hybrid 3-4 is a perfectly valid defensive scheme.

Now, you can continue to insist on the inadequacies of Diaco's scheme, that the players can do no wrong, and that the coaching staff is ultimately to blame whenever the team falls short of your lofty expectations, in which case you'll do much better over at NDNation.

Or you can adjust your expectations, embrace the statistical evidence, and enjoy watching this program return to glory.
 
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zemaniak

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ok , multi quoting genius I am not, but neither am i the black or white type of guy you are making me out to be, nor do I enjoy being labeled as such.

Let's start with expectations. Before the season started, when Kool-aid drinkers were clamoring BCS and 10-2 or better season, I was on the side of the realists talking about 9-3 or 8-4 and saying this would be satisfactory given we see improvement in play from game to game.

On the adjustmnets, why only take the 3rd quarter? why can;t adjustments be made during the game? why don;t you take into account Q4? you have a pretty stark example of a complet Q4 meltdown against Michigan. FACT. 2nd such meltdown since Navy 2010. Scheme or players? you want to put it all on GGray? or does safety, pass rush have a say, or, god forbid, Diaco's strategy?

Do we have National Championship talent? I never claimed as such, again, you argue by labeling me black and white when I have never admitted that. I could mention our 2008 class was ranked #2, pretty darn close to #1 in my book, so SOMEONE, other than lil ole me thought pretty highly of them...
Do I feel this team should be top25? DARN right I do! should the reasons for these losses be solely on the O. NOt in my book, D has their fair share. Scheme or players?

Hand waving argument. Apart form your link (I'll look at it later), you have offered your opinion on each of your arguments. So again, we both have opinions, and are using facts. YOu claim your facts are more accurate, that's fine, no need to ridicule mine.

on the 4-3 vs 3-4. I never mentioned a preference for one over the other . I do mot understand your point about 3-4 not being capable of being aggressive. A 3-4 gives you much more flexibility in coverage and blitzing and therefore , for me, more capable of creating big plays like sacks and INTs. Again, the way you assume my opinion and then look down upon it is condescending and arrogant.

I actually share your concern about our next man ins at DL but disagree about KLM's absence being responsible for the bulk of USC's rush yards. Where are your friends, the facts, to support this claim? As for scheme, our DL was weakened, but why did our OLBs seem so "out of it" late to the ball, bad tackling, poor pass coverage... again, scheme or players?

YOu make very good arguments, I mentioned earlier. what I don;t enjoy is your way of dealing with someone with a slightly different opinion than you. I say slightly because unlike how you portray and judge me, we see several things on the approximately same level: We both see an improving program AND defense, the only difference is my growing reservations for Diaco based on the last 2 games.

I don't understand your reasoning behind the manner in which you have decided to deconstruct my posts and protray them as disgruntled drivel, but I did not enjoy it, nor the time it has kept me away from my kids, cause I sure as hell wasn't going to let you make me look like an idiot without fighting back.

That being said, good night sir. Enjoy putting the last word in if that makes you feel better/superior.
 
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Whiskeyjack

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I'm sure this is getting tiresome for others to read, so I'll keep this brief.

If I came off as dismissive, I apologize. In the wake of the USC loss (as with every loss), a portion of ND's fan base has been melting down and posting all sorts of drivel regarding the team and the coaching staff. Sifting through it is tiresome, and has apparently left me in a sour mood.

Then I read your post expressing skepticism about Diaco's scheme, mid-game adjustments, etc. Your view conflicts with both my opinion as a lay observer and every statistical analysis of ND's defense (which I would argue is significantly more reliable than either of our opinions) I've read over the last year or so. Hand-waving is a pet peeve of mine, so I felt compelled to respond.

I don't think you're an idiot, but you're casual dismissal of objective statistical evidence in favor of your own gut-feelings tells me you aren't interested in entertaining alternative points of view.

I'd be very interested in reading a statistically-based argument on how Diaco's defensive scheme is "too conservative/ reactionary", or how Diaco has failed to make important schematic adjustments mid-game. Excuse me if I'm not willing to simply accept your intuition that Diaco's scheme is holding us back.

Lots of things happen during every single play of a football game; far more than a casual observer could hope to take in with a single view. Stats help us capture and compare everything across teams with drastic variation in scheme, personnel, and strength of schedule.

To answer your specific points, 3rd quarter defensive performance is important because major adjustments can only be installed during half time. How do you propose that Diaco, or any defensive coordinator for that matter, could make significant schematic adjustments in the beginning of the second or fourth quarter?

I'd also love to hear how Gary Gray's repeated failure to turn his head around in the 4th quarter against Michigan could possibly be a schematic issue. That is 100% on the player.
 

NDinL.A.

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I'm sure this is getting tiresome for others to read, so I'll keep this brief.

If I came off as dismissive, I apologize. In the wake of the USC loss (as with every loss), a portion of ND's fan base has been melting down and posting all sorts of drivel regarding the team and the coaching staff. Sifting through it is tiresome, and has apparently left me in a sour mood.

Then I read your post expressing skepticism about Diaco's scheme, mid-game adjustments, etc. Your view conflicts with both my opinion as a lay observer and every statistical analysis of ND's defense (which I would argue is significantly more reliable than either of our opinions) I've read over the last year or so. Hand-waving is a pet peeve of mine, so I felt compelled to respond.

I don't think you're an idiot, but you're casual dismissal of objective statistical evidence in favor of your own gut-feelings tells me you aren't interested in entertaining alternative points of view.

I'd be very interested in reading a statistically-based argument on how Diaco's defensive scheme is "too conservative/ reactionary", or how Diaco has failed to make important schematic adjustments mid-game. Excuse me if I'm not willing to simply accept your intuition that Diaco's scheme is holding us back.

Lots of things happen during every single play of a football game; far more than a casual observer could hope to take in with a single view. Stats help us capture and compare everything across teams with drastic variation in scheme, personnel, and strength of schedule.

To answer your specific points, 3rd quarter defensive performance is important because major adjustments can only be installed during half time. How do you propose that Diaco, or any defensive coordinator for that matter, could make significant schematic adjustments in the beginning of the second or fourth quarter?

I'd also love to hear how Gary Gray's repeated failure to turn his head around in the 4th quarter against Michigan could possibly be a schematic issue. That is 100% on the player.

That's brief Whiskey??? LOL
 
H

HereComeTheIrish

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gimme a break

stats are facts if they are widely accepted as such, and even then:

Lies, damn lies and statistics ring a bell?

4-3, there's a fact/stat for you. FEEL better now?


nice attempt at sarcasm, "dude" , hope your avatar is one too

8-2....Woo Hoo!!!
 

BGIF

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...

What about our vaunted Froshes, what about Cwynar, is the drop off that steep in your mind?

...

What about our vaunted Frosh? They're frosh. Aside from Browner and Fry in '73 and Niehaus a year later, how many Frosh do you recall starting on the ND DLine, must less dominating. Kory Minor was the USA Defensive Player of the Year. He started at DropLB for ND but often on the DL dealing with OTs that outweighed him by 40-60 pounds. He was game but undersized and understrengthed. Big Ced came to ND and didn't play as a freshman as he had no stamina. Kelly has commented repeatedly about the freshman DLs needing to stamina to go more than a few plays at a time.

The freshman are still learning technique something a lot of kids that dominated in high school don't have polished when they reach Div 1. Lynch is bull rusher, something relatively easy for a experienced OL even with lesser natural talent to deal with on a running play.

Unfortunantely the injuries to others have required the frosh to get PT in a hurry - for longer periods of play then they should be. Let's be candid 19 year old freshman don't have the strength of guys 2, 3, or 4 years in a Div 1 conditioning program, do they?

Putting one freshman in a Dline in one thing, putting two in increases the risk significantly. Playing two freshman next to a guy with a broken hand is another. How effective is Cwynar with one paw?
 

woolybug25

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gimme a break

stats are facts if they are widely accepted as such, and even then:

Lies, damn lies and statistics ring a bell?

4-3, there's a fact/stat for you. FEEL better now?


nice attempt at sarcasm, "dude" , hope your avatar is one too]


What? Is that Canadien for "Your avatar looks sexy?"

If so, get lost gaytard. I'm not into that kind of crap.
 
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