Defensive Backs

[pkt77242]

i agree with almost everything said about Gray.

but he wasn't alone - Harrison Smith has now had 2 terrible games in a row, and Zeke didn't look all that hot either.

these 3 guys remind me a lot of Crist. all the tools, and sure they get a pick once in a while, but more often than not they d**k it up. I know it sounds like treason because smith had those picks v. Southern Cal, but I've been sick of him for a long time.

they threw at blanton once and he picked it off. good for him.

Manti was eliminated by the michigan game plan.

i also disagree that next week we'll have a better go - Cousins is substantially better at throwing than the first two QBs we've seen. This is going to get much worse before it gets better.

There is no doubt that Cousins is a better QB than Robinson or Daniles but MSU plays to our teams strength as well. So I call it a wash. We will be able to play much more zone which plays to Gray, Motta and Smith's strengths and they won't be challenged as much speed wise which works well for us.

 

[rtrn2glory]

what i do like about next week is the lack of elite dual threat that cousins has as a runner. if we physically match up with them and (seriously get after the QB and get some sacks, seriously) we will have as good a chance to win as we have the last two weeks.

 

[DuffHouse12]

There is no doubt that Cousins is a better QB than Robinson or Daniles but MSU plays to our teams strength as well. So I call it a wash. We will be able to play much more zone which plays to Gray, Motta and Smith's strengths and they won't be challenged as much speed wise which works well for us.

our strength is ball skill, positioning and decision making in the secondary?

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

our strength is ball skill, positioning and decision making in the secondary?

Brah... What's he's saying is that ND tends to thrive against conventional offenses vs. spread where so many other variables come into play.

 

[rtrn2glory]

Our d line seriously needs to get after cousins next week...i know we were trying to cage the last two guys in, but now it's time we un-cage our animals up front and punish us some QB

 

[DuffHouse12]

we need coverage. plain and simple. i don't care if it's zone or man or Pro-Style or Spread. the only DB to make a big play this year has been Blanton with his end zone pick and blowing up that bubble screen week 1. have any of the DBs made a big play on a run yet even? these guys are all great athletes but they need to play football better.

 

[NDFANnSouthWest]

Our DEs have to get some pressure on the QB to help out the Secondary. Expect Lynch to get some significant playing time.

 

[rtrn2glory]

any coach will say that the best pass defense is a good pass rush and we need to start making that true...the talent is there, time to un-leash it.

 

[Buster Bluth]

You guys are nuts, Gary did fine.

They were all underthrown balls.

Gary was in the right spot.

I find myself in line with this thought more and more.

Think about it--and I want NDFANnSouthWest's opinion because if I remember correctly he actually played DB at the D1 level--if you're covering a guy on a desperate go route, and he is fast, you probably aren't going to be able to turn your head around or he will get behind you.

Denard cannot pass. He was overthrowing passes early and underthrowing them late. What happens when on these deep routes the ball is so horrifically underthrown that the receiver simply stops before he normally would and the DB, Gray, cannot react fast enough because he's committing to the deep ball not some underthrown duckling.

Am I insane to think that was the case? Gray's entire body of work is just too good to thing he is suddenly terrible. You are NEVER has bad as you look.

 

[DuffHouse12]

"You guys are nuts, Gary did fine.

They were all underthrown balls.

Gary was in the right spot."

well he got beat on two back shoulder fades in the end zone. the WRs adjusted, and he didn't. then there was the whole leaving a guy wide open 20 yards down the field with 30 seconds to go. great job.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

I find myself in line with this thought more and more.

Think about it--and I want NDFANnSouthWest's opinion because if I remember correctly he actually played DB at the D1 level--if you're covering a guy on a desperate go route, and he is fast, you probably aren't going to be able to turn your head around or he will get behind you.

Denard cannot pass. He was overthrowing passes early and underthrowing them late. What happens when on these deep routes the ball is so horrifically underthrown that the receiver simply stops before he normally would and the DB, Gray, cannot react fast enough because he's committing to the deep ball not some underthrown duckling.

Am I insane to think that was the case? Gray's entire body of work is just too good to thing he is suddenly terrible. You are NEVER has bad as you look.

yup.... you're insane.

 

[DuffHouse12]

so under throw passes are impossible to cover? its not that a defensive back can't adjust, its that ours didn't. good defensive backs turn those into incompletions or picks. our made them TDs.

its not like we were going against Plax and Eli from the '07 NFC Championship game.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

so under throw passes are impossible to cover? its not that a defensive back can't adjust, its that ours didn't. good defensive backs turn those into incompletions or picks. our made them TDs.

its not like we were going against Plax and Eli from the '07 NFC Championship game.

If you get your friggin' head around, no. Most d-backs are licking their chops on opportunities like this.

 

[Chicago Irish Fan]

I find myself in line with this thought more and more.

Think about it--and I want NDFANnSouthWest's opinion because if I remember correctly he actually played DB at the D1 level--if you're covering a guy on a desperate go route, and he is fast, you probably aren't going to be able to turn your head around or he will get behind you.

Denard cannot pass. He was overthrowing passes early and underthrowing them late. What happens when on these deep routes the ball is so horrifically underthrown that the receiver simply stops before he normally would and the DB, Gray, cannot react fast enough because he's committing to the deep ball not some underthrown duckling.

Am I insane to think that was the case? Gray's entire body of work is just too good to thing he is suddenly terrible. You are NEVER has bad as you look.

If it was one incident I would agree that he played it correctly, but he never learned from his mistakes. The entire second half D Rob was under-throwing receivers to the point where it was exclusively jump balls and Gray did the same thing every time. However, there was not one play where he got burned and Robinson hit his receiver for a big gain. Gray needs to realize that and if he doesn't the DB coaches need to point that out to him.

That said, I agree with your last paragraph. I don't think Gray is even close to as bad as he played last night. In my opinion, he was one of the bright spots on the defense last year. He doesn't suddenly suck over night, this was an aberration.

 

[Buster Bluth]

"You guys are nuts, Gary did fine.

They were all underthrown balls.

Gary was in the right spot."

well he got beat on two back shoulder fades in the end zone. the WRs adjusted, and he didn't. then there was the whole leaving a guy wide open 20 yards down the field with 30 seconds to go. great job.

I'm not excusing those. It just seemed like WR's could see that the go route was dreadfully under-thrown and had the advantage.

 

[Buster Bluth]

If it was one incident I would agree that he played it correctly, but he never learned from his mistakes. The entire second half D Rob was under-throwing receivers to the point where it was exclusively jump balls and Gray did the same thing every time. However, there was not one play where he got burned and Robinson hit his receiver for a big gain. Gray needs to realize that and if he doesn't the DB coaches need to point that out to him.

That said, I agree with your last paragraph. I don't think Gray is even close to as bad as he played last night. In my opinion, he was one of the bright spots on the defense last year. He doesn't suddenly suck over night, this was an aberration.

I'm just glad that this staff can actually coach and develop. Gray will fix these problems.

Keeping him in the flats in a Cover 2 against Michigan State will help a ton. The flats is where his home is.

 

[BeauBenken]

Well the reason the deep ball kept working so well was because our safeties and DBs who were out run were in straight sprint mode to make up the distance with the wide receiver. Some times they can make it up and make a good play to stop the ball the other times result in a catch, but when the ball is underthrown it is a hole different story. Your sprint screws you over and the receiver is able to run back to the ball before you can change pace and play the ball accordingly.

In essence, getting beat on fly routes playing man-to-man and then the throws being thrown short ****ed us up. Bad.

I think we could have played man-to-man but we needed to play it much more loose than we were. Did they run any short to intermediate routes the entire second half? lol

 

[Buster Bluth]

Well the reason the deep ball kept working so well was because our safeties and DBs who were out run were in straight sprint mode to make up the distance with the wide receiver. Some times they can make it up and make a good play to stop the ball the other times result in a catch, but when the ball is underthrown it is a hole different story. Your sprint screws you over and the receiver is able to run back to the ball before you can change pace and play the ball accordingly.

In essence, getting beat on fly routes playing man-to-man and then the throws being thrown short ****ed us up. Bad.

I think we could have played man-to-man but we needed to play it much more loose than we were. Did they run any short to intermediate routes the entire second half? lol

And yet some many fools on here (no offense) were saying "tighten up the coverage Diaco!" after the USF game. I said he shouldn't because Michigan's receivers are very good and very fast.

I completely agree with your post though.

 

[tankjeep]

Well the reason the deep ball kept working so well was because our safeties and DBs who were out run were in straight sprint mode to make up the distance with the wide receiver. Some times they can make it up and make a good play to stop the ball the other times result in a catch, but when the ball is underthrown it is a hole different story. Your sprint screws you over and the receiver is able to run back to the ball before you can change pace and play the ball accordingly.

In essence, getting beat on fly routes playing man-to-man and then the throws being thrown short ****ed us up. Bad.

I think we could have played man-to-man but we needed to play it much more loose than we were. Did they run any short to intermediate routes the entire second half? lol

well said. the thing that pisses me off, denard robinson got lucky. the only play i think gary screwed up on....the 64 yard reception that lead to the winning TD. other than that, i think gary was in the right spot and the ball was badly underthrown (dr was just chucking it up & got lucky as hell).

just iritates the crap out of me. we basically dominated both lines of scrimmage and michigan has a horseshoe stuck up their arse.

GO IRISH!!!! we will bounce back.

and for those hating on gray....back off.

 

[BearGB]

Another thing I will say is that as much as Diaco had a pretty decent game plan, as soon as I saw us lining up for at least one of the touchdowns on Gary, I was like "s!@$" we have 7-8 guys in the box, and I believe it was like a 3rd and five situation. Putting the entire secondary in man like that with no way to really help each other is a recipe for disaster I think. There are truly not many college corners who can cover that by themselves, especially if they don't really have help either in front of them or to their inside.

Again, Gary needs to play better, but I think Diaco needed to help him out more in that particular situation.

 

[ulukinatme]

The sad part is that Denard is not a good passer. He overthrew and underthrew a lot and got away with it. An accurate QB would've done a lot more damage to us.

Andrew Luck