Are Notre Dame's academic standards high for football players?

[Endzone2]

I am a long time college football fan, and it has always been my understanding that Notre Dame has high academic standards for their college athletes. Is this true or not? If it is true, could this be one reason that ND isn't able to get the very top players--especially the top black athletes?


Thanks

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

I am a long time college football fan, and it has always been my understanding that Notre Dame has high academic standards for their college athletes. Is this true or not? If it is true, could this be one reason that ND isn't able to get the very top players--especially the top black athletes?


Thanks

No...

 

[IrishAlum1997]

OH NO.......

 

[Endzone2]

No...

No, they don't have high academic standards or no, that's not the reason they don't get the very top recruits?

 

[IrishAlum1997]

What is it that you are implying about top black athletes?

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

No, they don't have high academic standards or no, that's not the reason they don't get the very top recruits?

Misread your OP...

 

[Endzone2]

What is it that you are implying about top black athletes?

A lot of black athletes want to major in Pre-NFL or Pre-NBA. Does Notre Dame have those majors there like a lot of other schools?

 

[Folsteam_Ahead]

initial response - just...wow

delayed response - each athlete is reviewed on a case by case basis. the "standard" is essentially a determination by admissions of whether they can handle the curriculum.

also, being a top black athlete doesn't have anything to do with intelligence. we get several elite athletes that are also black every year.

 

[loomis41973]

Brb...goin' to make some popcorn.

 

[Endzone2]

Let's, see, this is about the 10th post in this thread, and I still haven't gotten a straight answer.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Looks like I need to run to youtube and pull out the Russian singer... BRB.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iwGFalTRHDA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Anchorman]

not really sure on the question.

Are ND's standards for athletes higher than most D1 schools? Yes.

Does ND drop its admission standards for athletes? Yes.

That said, we have plenty of schools on our schedule with as stringent or more stringent academic requirements.

 

[BeauBenken]

Yes, Notre Dame has very high academic standards.

Yes, this has caused us to turn down players in the past (and present, I'm sure).

Our current and last year's recruiting classes were amazing though.

 

[Endzone2]

not really sure on the question.

Are ND's standards for athletes higher than most D1 schools? Yes.

Does ND drop its admission standards for athletes? Yes.

That said, we have plenty of schools on our schedule with as stringent or more stringent academic requirements.

Thanks Anchorman, that's what I wanted to know. In your opinion would you say that academics aren't a factor in whether a football players decides to go to ND or not?

 

[Endzone2]

Yes, Notre Dame has very high academic standards.

Yes, this has caused us to turn down players in the past (and present, I'm sure).

Our current and last year's recruiting classes were amazing though.

Thanks for your response. Do you know what percentage of students on campus are catholic and what percentage of the football players are catholic? What I'm getting at is are most football players recruited from catholic high schools or public high schools?

 

[BeauBenken]

Thanks for your response. Do you know what percentage of students on campus are catholic and what percentage of the football players are catholic? What I'm getting at is are most football players recruited from catholic high schools or public high schools?

I can assure you that there isn't a discrimination on who is recruited. It's well known that ND has always had a very good "in" with the Catholic high schools in the nation.

As in, we recruit from everywhere with no preference of players other than they be willing to work hard, good people, and (this one is important) good football players! We just have a better chance with kids from Catholic schools, or so one would presume.

 

[Endzone2]

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/iwGFalTRHDA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Outstanding voice!!!

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Outstanding voice!!!

Very accomplished singer, dancer, writer and sushi chef. If you're ever in the local Moscow area, he owns a little slice of heaven called, "Fish On A Stick". Not only one hell of a sing-song but quite the entrepreneur as well.

 

[pkt77242]

Brb...goin' to make some popcorn.

 

[Endzone2]

I can assure you that there isn't a discrimination on who is recruited. It's well known that ND has always had a very good "in" with the Catholic high schools in the nation.

As in, we recruit from everywhere with no preference of players other than they be willing to work hard, good people, and (this one is important) good football players! We just have a better chance with kids from Catholic schools, or so one would presume.

The world discrimination can almost be defined to mean anything now days. I just don't believe that a church school (yes I consider ND a church school on a major scale) would not have slightly higher standards regarding a football players character and their seriousness about academic standards. But maybe I'm wrong, and if I'm wrong, that's what I want to know. But TCU (here in Ft. Worth) even has the word Christian in their name, and they are not really a church school. But still the type of recruits they get are different than the types of recruits the University of Texas gets--sometimes refered to on the TCU board as welfare U. And I'm betting the types of recruits ND gets are different than the ones that Michigan or Michigan State gets. Does ND take non-qualifiers?

BTW, kind of an old timer here. I was born and raised in Cincinnati. I remember when Steve Sylvester (OT) and Steve Niehaus (DT) were recruited from Cincy Moeller to play at ND. Early 1970s I guess.

 

[Endzone2]

Very accomplished singer, dancer, writer and sushi chef. If you're ever in the local Moscow area, he owns a little slice of heaven called, "Fish On A Stick". Not only one hell of a sing-song but quite the entrepreneur as well.

Thanks. Moscow, Idaho or Moscow, Russia? Or is there also a Moscow, IN?

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Thanks. Moscow, Idaho or Moscow, Russia? Or is there also a Moscow, IN?

The good one... Russia.

 

[Endzone2]

The good one... Russia.

Hmmmm, I've been to all 7 continents and Greenland, but I've never been to that Moscow. I'd only want to go to see what real Russian beef stroganoff taste like. And thank God I stopped with the hookers, so even Russian hookers wouldn't be a good enough reason to go.

 

[Anchorman]

Thanks Anchorman, that's what I wanted to know. In your opinion would you say that academics aren't a factor in whether a football players decides to go to ND or not?

It certainly helps that both athletes and their families know they will get ND academics and degree from a recruiting side. See Tuitt's mother.

 

[kmoose]

I am a long time college football fan, and it has always been my understanding that Notre Dame has high academic standards for their college athletes. Is this true or not? If it is true, could this be one reason that ND isn't able to get the very top players--especially the top black athletes?


Thanks

ND has high academic standards for all students. That includes football players. That's not to say that they won't lower their entrance standards for a football player. Tony Rice and Chris Zorich would never had been accepted to ND, without football. But both of them graduated, on time, and having completed a real cirriculum. An excellent example of this is "redshirting" at ND(lots of the regs here are rolling their eyes right now). ND does not redshirt, in the traditional sense. That is to say that players who don't see the field, or suffer a season ending injury, are not guaranteed a fifth year. No matter how good a football player they are. At most schools, it works like this: Freshman QB with near unlimited potential comes in and doesn't see the field all year long. At the end of the season, the school petitions the NCAA for a 5th year of eligibility. The NCAA either grants it or not. So, before the guy even registers for sophomore classes, he already knows that he has 4 years of eligibility left.

At ND, you do your 4 years. If you GRADUATE(on time, obviously), and GET ACCEPTED to an ND graduate program (Ballroom dancing is not an advanced degree in South Bend), then you can apply to the school for a fifth year. The school then decides whether or not to petition the NCAA on your behalf. So, in order to get a "redshirt" at ND, a player has to GRADUATE after 4 years, and also be accepted to, and enrolled in, a Graduate Studies program.

If you compare that to how just about every other school handles redshirting, then you can see that ND does, in fact, have higher academic standards for it's football players. They don't all have to be Einsteins, coming out of High School, but they DO have to perform academically.

 

[Endzone2]

Thanks for the info Kmoose. So do you believe that ND can't get the very best recruits because their academic standards are too high? A lot of good athletes may not be willing to accept the academic challenges at ND. But I think ND is such an elite school that they could get very good athletes that also want to do well academically. Maybe I'm just kidding myself.

Gotta go Krogering now. Later.

 

[kmoose]

Thanks for the info Kmoose. So do you believe that ND can't get the very best recruits because their academic standards are too high? A lot of good athletes may not be willing to accept the academic challenges at ND. But I think ND is such an elite school that they could get very good athletes that also want to do well academically. Maybe I'm just kidding myself.

Gotta go Krogering now. Later.

Yes, I do believe that the best athletes these days (as a general rule) are pampered and would rather take the easy way out, than to have to apply themselves in the classroom.

However, despite that, I still think ND can attract excellent athletes who can get the job done. If I had a choice between having a starting backfield (QB, RB, RB) who were all the #1 guy at their position, or having the #2 guy at EVERY position on the offensive side of the ball...... I'd take the latter, all day long. This coaching staff can obviously recruit. I'm less worried about recruiting, and more worried about coaching. And I also place alot of emphasis on doing it right. I'm not asking for no controversies at all with the team and/or staff. I just want very few, and very minor, ones, if any.

 

[ulukinatme]

Do we have some strict academic standards? Yes. Do we miss out on some athletes that may perform slightly better than ones we tradionally yet? Maybe. On the other hand, that doesn't mean we can't be successful or can't win. Stanford is a perfect example. They are in the same league as us essentially when it comes to academic standards, and right now they're a powerhouse. Harbaugh may have left, but they're still a tough, hard nosed team. Our schedule may be a bit tougher than Stanford's PAC 10 conference schedule some years, but I do think we can still be successful though.

 

[BGIF]

Let's, see, this is about the 10th post in this thread, and I still haven't gotten a straight answer.

You've actually gotten several straight answers to questions that are worded in a troll like manner whether that was intentional or not.

ND has had higher academic standards for a couple of decades. They've been upgraded several times through the last CENTURY. The requirement today are the same as they were under Rockne.

The NCAA requires recruits to have a core course GPA and test score (ACT or SAT) on a sliding basis. The lower the GPA the higher the corresponding test score has to be. For the past 2 years or so the NCAA has required 16 courses of math, science, etc in that Core GPA. ND has required 16 courses for more than 20 years.

ND took 3 Prop 48 (Partial Qualifiers) in it's history. Two were in football and one in basketball back in 1986.

ND requires all freshman to take the same courses called "Freshman Year of Studies". Thus there are no "cake" courses to hide the jocks. ND athletes have to compete with All-American talent on the field and in the classroom. The average ND student graduates in the Top 5 % of their HS class and has a SAT score of about 1350.

ND takes athletes with a lot less than that 1350 level score BUT those they do take have to be able to compete and stay eligible with a academically talented student body. There are no "Walking" and "Jogging" courses to get eligible on.

The ND coaches and faculty keep an eye on their students. If an athlete misses class, doesn't turn in assignments, he doesn't play. ND has a fine tutoring program NOT to do the work for the student athlete but to teach those that didn't learn how to study in high school, how to do it now.

Perennially ND has one of the highest, if not, the highest graduation rate for students AND student athletes regardless of race or sex.

ND also has a student code of conduct and dorm life that not all athletes wish to adhere to regardless of race or sex.

Not all HS athletes want to do the classwork that is required if they are to be successful in college. Many think they've got an NFL contract in their pocket and Coach "X" at Football U. has told them, "Don't worry about class. Homework's not a problem". A number of years ago an Auburn football player, an AU graduate, sued that university as he was a functional illiterate. He won his case. He couldn't read and hadn't acquired useful skills but he was passed on grade by grade because he played football. That won't happen at ND.

We've got threads in the ND football forum which discusses the topic in detail and backs up the data with specific cites.