USF Presser

[nlroma1o]

Here's the wording...



I don't think that's stupid at all. It's not a celebration penalty. It's a taunting penalty. You have to be directly engaging an opponent with a gesture.

I don't want my players to do that. I may be blanking, but I don't think we would have had any points taken off the board last season.

I thought I read that you will be penalize with this rule IF you are all alone and deicde to do the old fashioned "im gonna spread out and dive in the end zone" even though i dont need to trick.

And for clarification. I by no means want to see players taunt the other team on the way into the end zone. I just dont want officials have that much control over the game. I dont think they should be taking points off the board. What if a team gets penalized for this, the points are taken off the board. And on the next play the center botches the snap and the defense recovers the fumble. What then? Do you honestly want to see a team get their hard earned touchdown taken away because the kid decided to dive into the end zone and the ref thought it wasnt necessary? I sure as hell dont want to see the refs with that much power. I dont want this game to turn into basketball.... sheeesh.


Funny memory i just had. I was just remembering back to that TD Samardijza had where he burned Stanfords DBs (i think it was '05) and right before he crossed the endzone line he looked back and gave the guy a little wave like "come and get me". If this rule was in existence back then, his touchdown would have been taken away..... You still think this rule isnt stupid?

 

[IrishJayhawk]

And for clarification. I by no means want to see players taunt the other team on the way into the end zone. I just dont want officials have that much control over the game...

Funny memory i just had. I was just remembering back to that TD Samardijza had where he burned Stanfords DBs (i think it was '05) and right before he crossed the endzone line he looked back and gave the guy a little wave like "come and get me". If this rule was in existence back then, his touchdown would have been taken away..... You still think this rule isnt stupid?

Fair point about the officials.

Yes, I vividly remember Shark's TD that year. Yes, I still think it's an okay rule. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a hunch that the Shark might have sat for a drive if he had been on Brian Kelly's team, rule or not. Just wait until you cross the goal line and celebrate with your teammates.

I may be in the minority here. That's fine. My favorite football player of all time is Walter Payton. I think he did it right.

 

[JughedJones]

I really don't think The Shark would have done it if these rules were in place.

Too smart a kid.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

I really don't think The Shark would have done it if these rules were in place.

Too smart a kid.

Very possible.

P.S. Love how you capitalize "The" and "Shark." There is no other shark. It's a proper noun. Nice.

 

[Riddickulous]

I really don't think The Shark would have done it if these rules were in place.

Too smart a kid.

I wish we had The Shark this year. He was such a beast.

 

[nlroma1o]

Fair point about the officials.

Yes, I vividly remember Shark's TD that year. Yes, I still think it's an okay rule. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a hunch that the Shark might have sat for a drive if he had been on Brian Kelly's team, rule or not. Just wait until you cross the goal line and celebrate with your teammates.

I may be in the minority here. That's fine. My favorite football player of all time is Walter Payton. I think he did it right.

I also am fine with a penalty. Just dont take the points away. That's pretty much the only area we are disagreeing on. Penalize the crap out of them on the kick off. Make em kick from the 10 yard line. I just dont want to see points being taken off of the score when the defense did nothing to keep the offense out of the endzone.

And yes, THE SHARK probably would have been chewed out by Kelly over some of his on field antics. LOL

GO IRISH!!!

 

[jonesman]

Guys,
The new celebration rule will change the outcome of some MAJOR game during the season and become the biggest conversation point for all of college football because of that given outcome.

I see already, some player in the excitement of the moment is going to make a gesture of some kind that will cost his team a game with BCS like implications.

The talking heads on ESPN will spend the rest of the weekend discussing how STUPID it is to have all the emotion taken out of college football. Sadly, I agree in many ways.

Here is an example of one that could have affected ND. Toryan Smith does a leap into the endzone at the Navy game in 2008. So, would we have been assessed the penalty from where he leaped or a dead ball penalty in the endzone???

 

[BGIF]

Fair point about the officials.

Yes, I vividly remember Shark's TD that year. Yes, I still think it's an okay rule. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a hunch that the Shark might have sat for a drive if he had been on Brian Kelly's team, rule or not. Just wait until you cross the goal line and celebrate with your teammates.

I may be in the minority here. That's fine. My favorite football player of all time is Walter Payton. I think he did it right.

We may be in the minority but you're not alone. "Act like you've been there before.

Homer Jones of the NY Giants created "The Spike" in 1965 and it's been a case since then of upstaging. "Hey Look At Me!"

College rules have changed several times to tone down the showboats but there are some that continue to ignore them. So the rule is tougher.

 

[kmoose]

I thought I read that you will be penalize with this rule IF you are all alone and deicde to do the old fashioned "im gonna spread out and dive in the end zone" even though i dont need to trick.

And for clarification. I by no means want to see players taunt the other team on the way into the end zone. I just dont want officials have that much control over the game. I dont think they should be taking points off the board. What if a team gets penalized for this, the points are taken off the board. And on the next play the center botches the snap and the defense recovers the fumble. What then? Do you honestly want to see a team get their hard earned touchdown taken away because the kid decided to dive into the end zone and the ref thought it wasnt necessary? I sure as hell dont want to see the refs with that much power. I dont want this game to turn into basketball.... sheeesh.


Funny memory i just had. I was just remembering back to that TD Samardijza had where he burned Stanfords DBs (i think it was '05) and right before he crossed the endzone line he looked back and gave the guy a little wave like "come and get me". If this rule was in existence back then, his touchdown would have been taken away..... You still think this rule isnt stupid?

Yep. As much as I liked Samardzija, I thought that was a dumb thing to do. If he had gotten penalized, and the points taken off of the board, he would have deserved it.

Having said that, I do think that the NCAA needs to pretty clearly define what is taunting, and what is not.

 

[military_irish]

The taunting penalty rule is very subjective. The ref in one game can throw a flag but a reff in another may not.

Just look back to last year when AJ Green was flagged for an excessive celebration penalty and it ended up costing them the game. When after reviewing the play there was no penalty. The ref just thought it was.

So this year may get very interesting very fast.

On a side note, I am with the "minority" I guess. I don't think anyone should go over board with celebrating. I do feel as a team they should be able to get excited. Just nothing planned or stupid. When I played football our coach told us after we score a TD every player needs to hustle down field and tap the person that scored on the helmet or say good job. I would hate for kids to get penalized for that.

 

[Rhode Irish]

You should act like you've been there before because it is the right thing to do and you are a classy person, not because they might take your touchdown away. I'm much more offended by the idea of regulating morality than I am by the somewhat objectionable behavior such regulations attempt to eliminate. If we make everyone act the way we want under threat of penalty, how are we supposed to tell the good ones from the bad ones? What is the practical value in regulating taunting out of the game? We don't throw rude people in jail; we should not take showboaters' touchdowns away, either.

 

[shovel_dr]

I will agree with the minority here . I have no problem with teammates gathering in congratulations at all, but other bull is for the birds. There is no reason to dive into an end zone with no defender even close, or wave to the nearest defender. In my opinion that kind of showboat takes away from the game it just gets worse each time with everyone trying to one up the last.

 

[AvesEvo]

Here is Skip Holtz's version of the presser.

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/B1kjkOq1810" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Here is Skip Holtz's version of the presser.

<iframe width="560" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/B1kjkOq1810" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Man, I really really like Skip...

He tells it how it is, and he gives ND praises when praises are due.

USF is sitting in good hands with this Legacy.

 

[nlroma1o]

Ok I am in agreement with all of you. I dont want showboating as someone goes into the endzone. I am simply arguing that TAKING AWAY POINTS ON THE SCOREBOARD is going too far. Make them kick a 40 yard point after attempt. Make them kick off from the 10 yard line. I just think it is very overbearing to take a touchdown away. Its the ncaa overstepping and area where they are LEAST needed. The ncaa should focus on cracking down on all of the rif raf cheating that goes on in college football administrations before they take points off the scoreboard.

Im not going to lie. I am VERY shocked that this many of you are OK with points being taken off the scoreboard...

 

[Rhode Irish]

Ok I am in agreement with all of you. I dont want showboating as someone goes into the endzone. I am simply arguing that TAKING AWAY POINTS ON THE SCOREBOARD is going too far. Make them kick a 40 yard point after attempt. Make them kick off from the 10 yard line. I just think it is very overbearing to take a touchdown away. Its the ncaa overstepping and area where they are LEAST needed. The ncaa should focus on cracking down on all of the rif raf cheating that goes on in college football administrations before they take points off the scoreboard.

Im not going to lie. I am VERY shocked that this many of you are OK with points being taken off the scoreboard...

See my comment above. I'm more on your side than you are.

 

[nlroma1o]

See my comment above. I'm more on your side than you are.

Ahhh Mr. Hagen... Surely you know that I am not directing this in your direction... i mean at you....

GO IRISH!!!

 

[IrishJayhawk]

You should act like you've been there before because it is the right thing to do and you are a classy person, not because they might take your touchdown away. I'm much more offended by the idea of regulating morality than I am by the somewhat objectionable behavior such regulations attempt to eliminate. If we make everyone act the way we want under threat of penalty, how are we supposed to tell the good ones from the bad ones? What is the practical value in regulating taunting out of the game? We don't throw rude people in jail; we should not take showboaters' touchdowns away, either.

I agree with you in a civilized society. But, the NFL gets to decide what it wants on the field and what it doesn't want. I don't have a problem with that.

That said, I don't feel incredibly strongly about this. I just don't mind the rule.

EDIT: Yes, I know I wrote NFL instead of the NCAA. Oops... My opinion applies in both settings...

 

[Rocket89]

Skip Holtz looks like an older Karl Pilkington. Head like an orange.

 

[irish1958]

Not only do I think they should take away the TD with taunting before entering the endzone, I think that they should take away points if they do it in the endzone. ]
On the other hand, I think most celebrations penalties are bogus; only if the stupid player acts like he is the only one who was responsible for the score should it be assessed .

 

[AvesEvo]

It is dumb and a team will lose because of it. Probably ND someday.

 

[UPMich_NDfan]

The taunting penalty rule is very subjective. The ref in one game can throw a flag but a reff in another may not.

Just look back to last year when AJ Green was flagged for an excessive celebration penalty and it ended up costing them the game. When after reviewing the play there was no penalty. The ref just thought it was.

So this year may get very interesting very fast.

On a side note, I am with the "minority" I guess. I don't think anyone should go over board with celebrating. I do feel as a team they should be able to get excited. Just nothing planned or stupid. When I played football our coach told us after we score a TD every player needs to hustle down field and tap the person that scored on the helmet or say good job. I would hate for kids to get penalized for that.

I think you hit it right on the head, you're putting way to much of a subjective point of view on this. I think if they are going to have the rule fine, but let the officials in the booth make the call after they get to look at the replay. There needs to be a defined set of rules that make it unsportsmanlike. Will kids come up with something not defined? Sure, but refs cannot have the power to 'think' they see something they don't like, nail them with a penalty and that be the end all...someone needs to be looking at it from up top to confirm!

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

I think you hit it right on the head, you're putting way to much of a subjective point of view on this. I think if they are going to have the rule fine, but let the officials in the booth make the call after they get to look at the replay. There needs to be a defined set of rules that make it unsportsmanlike. Will kids come up with something not defined? Sure, but refs cannot have the power to 'think' they see something they don't like, nail them with a penalty and that be the end all...someone needs to be looking at it from up top to confirm!

My be more tough for the Irish considering we usually use the other teams officials for home games.... This could turn into a freaking disaster. Not that our kids do that....(ahem....Arnez Battle/Golden Tate/Jeff Smardzija)

 

[UPMich_NDfan]

My be more tough for the Irish considering we usually use the other teams officials for home games.... This could turn into a freaking disaster. Not that our kids do that....(ahem....Arnez Battle/Golden Tate/Jeff Smardzija)

Yea, no kidding hey...but at least the people in the booth would be really held to the gun after looking at it where an official can grind his ax and fall back on, "oh, it was heat of the moment, or I just didn't see it right" you know...

 

[BGIF]

The taunting penalty rule is very subjective. The ref in one game can throw a flag but a reff in another may not.

You mean unlike Holding, Clipping, and Pass Interference, among others. Holding could be called on probably every play.

Unlike those plays which usually happen with almost 2 dozen players making contact across the field, all eyes in the stadium will be on the ball carrier 10 yards in front of the nearest defender, with nothing but green in front of him who turns at the 5 yard line to wave at a trailing defender.

If he keeps his head toward the end zone, drops the ball after crossing the goal line or hands it to an official, as the rule from several years ago stipulates, there is no official is going to call a penalty. There are too many eyes and too many cameras focused on the play.

If the ball carrier choses to wave at a defender like Shark did, do the Tomahawk to the FSU crowd ala Battle, or put his hands to helmet like their antlers or wings ala Bobby Brown, he's gonna get called.

...[/QUOTE]

 

[irish1958]

It is dumb and a team will lose because of it. Probably ND someday.

That is exactly what should happen. If our players are so crass, they should get smacked also.
Act like you have been there before and plan an being there many times in the future. Drop the ball or hand it to the ref, turn around and wait for your teammates to catch up and enjoy the TEAM touchdown.
Show a little class.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

You mean unlike Holding, Clipping, and Pass Interference, among others. Holding could be called on probably every play.

Unlike those plays which usually happen with almost 2 dozen players making contact across the field, all eyes in the stadium will be on the ball carrier 10 yards in front of the nearest defender, with nothing but green in front of him who turns at the 5 yard line to wave at a trailing defender.

If he keeps his head toward the end zone, drops the ball after crossing the goal line or hands it to an official, as the rule from several years ago stipulates, there is no official is going to call a penalty. There are too many eyes and too many cameras focused on the play.

If the ball carrier choses to wave at a defender like Shark did, do the Tomahawk to the FSU crowd ala Battle, or put his hands to helmet like their antlers or wings ala Bobby Brown, he's gonna get called.

Bam.

 

[military_irish]

You mean unlike Holding, Clipping, and Pass Interference, among others. Holding could be called on probably every play.

Unlike those plays which usually happen with almost 2 dozen players making contact across the field, all eyes in the stadium will be on the ball carrier 10 yards in front of the nearest defender, with nothing but green in front of him who turns at the 5 yard line to wave at a trailing defender.

If he keeps his head toward the end zone, drops the ball after crossing the goal line or hands it to an official, as the rule from several years ago stipulates, there is no official is going to call a penalty. There are too many eyes and too many cameras focused on the play.

If the ball carrier choses to wave at a defender like Shark did, do the Tomahawk to the FSU crowd ala Battle, or put his hands to helmet like their antlers or wings ala Bobby Brown, he's gonna get called.

...

[/QUOTE]

Agreed but what if a player gets into the endzone and takes a knee in prayer, is that excessive? Or what about when Hughes got the TD and pointed to the sky against USC. Is that excessive? Or like my previous example when AJ Green was tackled into the endzone and jumped up and ran into an O-Linemans arms and was flagged for excessive celebration. Is that right?

Or is the rule for blatant showboating? I.e. high stepping, diving, waving, etc while going into the endzone.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Agreed but what if a player gets into the endzone and takes a knee in prayer, is that excessive? Or what about when Hughes got the TD and pointed to the sky against USC. Is that excessive? Or like my previous example when AJ Green was tackled into the endzone and jumped up and ran into an O-Linemans arms and was flagged for excessive celebration. Is that right?

Or is the rule for blatant showboating? I.e. high stepping, diving, waving, etc while going into the endzone.

They'll take away the TD if you do it BEFORE you get into the endzone. All the stuff you wrote in the 1st paragraph is the same as it was last year...

 

[BGIF]

Agreed but what if a player gets into the endzone and takes a knee in prayer, is that excessive? Or what about when Hughes got the TD and pointed to the sky against USC. Is that excessive? Or like my previous example when AJ Green was tackled into the endzone and jumped up and ran into an O-Linemans arms and was flagged for excessive celebration. Is that right?

Or is the rule for blatant showboating? I.e. high stepping, diving, waving, etc while going into the endzone.

NDinL.A. noted the location of the action is what changed this year.

I don't know how a knee in prayer would be considered but I suspect the officals will get a training video explaining the rule. I would imagine if the ball carrier drops the ball in the endzone or hands it to a ref AND then takes a knee, it would be a non-issue. If he holds the ball while he takes a knee whether he's at prayer or just resting he's liable to get a Delay of Game penalty (that's an old rule).

As for Hughes, last night I saw a high school player get flagged for pointing to the sky after scoring a TD. I believe a family member had died ala Hughes. And yes, that's considered excessive, he called attention to himself.

It doesn't matter how noble the reason. Is the ref supposed to carry a list of players who might score that lost a relative, or has one in a terminal state? And for the player in prayer, why not say a prayer after each big play, each first down, each run? Like school prayer, you can still say it to yourself. There's a Christian fellowship group that meets on the 50 yard line and players take a knee - AFTER the game is over.