Quarterback Competition Update (4-11-11)

[FightingIrishLover7]

So you've seen him run an offense this summer on a his pair of surgically rebuilt knees.


Yeah, I didn't think so.

No. But I watched him last year, and compared to Tommy, Dayne offers a lot more than just "game management".

If Dayne is being truthful that he's 100% if not better health wise, then I feel that he'll be the starter day 1 until the end the season (barring another injury).

 

[Rocket89]

As I recall Crist saw only Floyd, and then, saw only Rudy. What's the value of of multiple receivers when you don't look for them?

The stats prove Crist spread the ball around to all the receivers more so than Rees. Tommy targeted and completed passes to Floyd at a much higher rate than Crist did, and did not spread the ball around as much to the other receivers.

Per MSP Irish Kickoff:

In the seven games Crist and Floyd both played, Floyd accounted for 26% of total receptions, just over 29% of receiving yards, and 33.3% of the passing scores.

With Rees at quarterback those same numbers jumped to 35.5%, 39.9%, and 50% respectively.

You were saying what, now?

 

[GoIrish41]

The stats prove Crist spread the ball around to all the receivers more so than Rees. Tommy targeted and completed passes to Floyd at a much higher rate than Crist did, and did not spread the ball around as much to the other receivers.

Per MSP Irish Kickoff:

In the seven games Crist and Floyd both played, Floyd accounted for 26% of total receptions, just over 29% of receiving yards, and 33.3% of the passing scores.

With Rees at quarterback those same numbers jumped to 35.5%, 39.9%, and 50% respectively.

You were saying what, now?

Crist targeted Rudy a lot -- one could argue that he forced the ball to him at times.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmoose
So he's saying that Rees made everyone around him better, while Crist couldn't? If Rees was making everyone around him better, while playing "average to slightly underperforming", imagine how this offense will click once Rees gets his feet fully under him, and raises his own level of play..........

But..........we all "know" that Crist is going to be the starter, vs. S. Fla.

So ... you either did not read it or you did not quite get it.

cum hoc ergo propter hoc / post hoc ergo propter hoc


*The Latin essentially means: correlation does not equal causation

From the fine mind of the creator, small minds are made . . .

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I attribute our lack of rushing production under Crist to growing pains on the OL. By the time Rees took over, the OL was finally starting to gel, which lead to a more productive rushing attack; that, in turn, went a long way toward improving our offensive consistency and keeping drives alive (our ball-control scheme and Rees' accuracy also get some credit for that.)

You know, there were a lot of things that happened last year. Cierre Wood grew up and replaced an ever hobbled Armando Allen, and the offensive line gelled. As much as I hate to admit it the guard position sucked and the center was weak in the Kelly scheme of things until mid season. (Which may have had more to do with injuries than previously suspected.)

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Crist targeted Rudy a lot -- one could argue that he forced the ball to him at times.

Did you not read what you quoted?

 

[Rocket89]

Crist targeted Rudy a lot -- one could argue that he forced the ball to him at times.

That is true, but Crist still spread the ball around to the other receivers more than Rees.

Rees was practically throwing to Floyd every other attempt.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

Team Hendrix

 

[RyCo1983]

Team Hendrix

I'm with you on this one!
He's the future. I think he'll get the nod over Golson...next year.
This year Crist will likely get the starting nod, initially...holding onto it is another thing...I look forward to seeing this young man grow. I think he holds onto the job and escapes injury.

 

[NDPhilly]

Team Hendrix

+1

 

[irish1958]

That is true, but Crist still spread the ball around to the other receivers more than Rees.

Rees was practically throwing to Floyd every other attempt.

Our best receivers, in order, were Floyd, Rudy, Riddick, Jones (a freshman) and then .....
When Crist played these were, for the most part, also on the field.
When Rees played Rudy and Riddick were not available.
So now Tommy is a poor QB because he choose to go to his best receiver more often?
What would have Crist have done if he didn't have Rudy and Riddick?

 

[Rocket89]

Our best receivers, in order, were Floyd, Rudy, Riddick, Jones (a freshman) and then .....
When Crist played these were, for the most part, also on the field.
When Rees played Rudy and Riddick were not available.
So now Tommy is a poor QB because he choose to go to his best receiver more often?
What would have Crist have done if he didn't have Rudy and Riddick?

No, I never said Rees was a "poor" QB because he went to his best receiver more often. The argument was started because someone said Crist didn't spread the ball around enough, and that the offense worked better under Rees because he did spread the ball around more often.

Rees did not.

I would agree that Crist had the benefit of a healthy Riddick, but Rudolph was hurt all year and basically half his usual self, and Eifert ended up just as productive. I'd probably also give Rees the benefit of a healthy Wood over Allen as well.

Maybe Rees will spread the ball around more often with everyone healthy, another year of experience, and Kelly opening the playbook up as much as he can for him...but that didn't happen last year.

 

[Irish2015]

Isn't the four man competition not really a 4 man competition since only 2 are competing for the starting job and 2 are competing for the change of pace qb?

 

[irish1958]

Rocket89
I apologize for my remark; you indeed did not imply that Rees was a poor QB and I was wrong to state it this way. What I should have said was that Crist had more options, so he could spread the ball more.
Incidentally, I think Hendrix should be the starter as I think he has the most potential to run Kelly's offense the best.
I think Holtz made a mistake in going with Mirer at QB as he didn't fit for his style of offense. He would have been better off developing and going with Kevin McDougal.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Reps to you. What an astute comment!

 

[kmoose]

I think this shouldn't be a competition. Crist has to be and should the starter. Crist had to learn a whole new system, while Rees ran something similar in high school. The added year will help Crist in his understanding of the offense. Crist is physically better than Rees; he throws with more accuracy, has a better arm, and more mobility.

Lets be honest, Crist was playing with an average defense, while Rees was playing with a defense that allowed like 10 pts a game. Crist was inconsistent at times but also showed he could do it (near comeback against Michigan). The offense just seems more potent with Crist running things.

So which is it? Could you possibly be overlooking some other factor, here?

Or is Brian Kelly just an absolute f'in moron?

Because Kelly doesn't know which to guy to start yet. I think we all believe that it will be Crist. But it's obviously not as clear a choice as Crist's Disciples would have us believe, if Kelly isn't even sure yet.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Because Kelly doesn't know which to guy to start yet. I think we all believe that it will be Crist. But it's obviously not as clear a choice as Crist's Disciples would have us believe, if Kelly isn't even sure yet.

There are plenty of reasons why Kelly might not want to declare a starter yet, even if he does know. It's not obvious one way or another.

 

[kmoose]

There are plenty of reasons why Kelly might not want to declare a starter yet, even if he does know. It's not obvious one way or another.

Well, he has said that he is not being coy, that he really doesn't know yet. Most of us "know" it will be Crist. But I don't think it's just that obvious. I don't have any attachment to Rees, I'm just surprised at how easily people are willing to just toss him aside like a rotten apple.

 

[Old Man Mike]

The reason that Coach hasn't named a starter yet is that he doesn't want to ruin the next two weeks for the guys arguing on Irish Envy. Kelly---what a Man!! What a sensitive philanthropist. One more reason to suspect great things coming.

The guy should be at the top of our list for next year's coach.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Well, he has said that he is not being coy, that he really doesn't know yet.

It's this assumption I was addressing. Kelly is a consummate politician; every comment is carefully calibrated for public consumption. Even if he truly does know*, I don't think he'd actually tell us because there are plenty of advantages right now to not tipping his hand.

*How do we define "know"? Know certainly doesn't mean mortal lock, because lots of (unlikely) things could happen in camp that would result in Dayne slipping down the depth chart. I'll go with "knowing" = more likely than not to happen.

 

[GoldenDomer87]

Not that simple.

Not that simple.

So which is it? Could you possibly be overlooking some other factor, here?

Or is Brian Kelly just an absolute f'in moron?

Because Kelly doesn't know which to guy to start yet. I think we all believe that it will be Crist. But it's obviously not as clear a choice as Crist's Disciples would have us believe, if Kelly isn't even sure yet.

I trust Kelly more than myself. If he says Rees starts then I'm behind him.

Could you disagree with what I said though(except for the first part)? Crist SEEMS to make the offense more potent and can throw the team into games and wins. I think, Rees is someone who is back there to not make mistakes and let the defense win the game. I don't think he could win a game where the other team drops 30+.

That's how I see it. Kelly obviously has a better eye on the situation.

Edit: He was a very good back-up.

 

[kmoose]

Could you disagree with what I said though(except for the first part)? Crist SEEMS to make the offense more potent and can throw the team into games and wins. I think, Rees is someone who is back there to not make mistakes and let the defense win the game. I don't think he could win a game where the other team drops 30+.

Dayne Crist was 0-3 against teams that scored 30+ on ND(Michigan State, Stanford, Navy), last year.

 

[GoldenDomer87]

Dayne Crist was 0-3 against teams that scored 30+ on ND(Michigan State, Stanford, Navy), last year.

You're right, they did lose those games, LAST YEAR. Crist was still feeling his way with the offense last year (Crist did look confused at times). I don't think Crist or Rees could have won a game where the team scored 20+. However, I'm talking about THIS YEAR. I don't think he will have the same problems. Crist has limitless potential because of the God given gifts. Rees's potential, I think, is limited.

I'm only in Crist's camp because I think he is the better man for the job. Can you disagree with what I'm saying? Do you think Rees has a better arm or can run the offense better?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Can you disagree with what I'm saying?

If he can, he will. kmoose is a dirty contrarian.

Darn him. Darn him to straight to heck.

 

[Riddickulous]

I trust Kelly more than myself. If he says Rees starts then I'm behind him.

Could you disagree with what I said though(except for the first part)? Crist SEEMS to make the offense more potent and can throw the team into games and wins. I think, Rees is someone who is back there to not make mistakes and let the defense win the game. I don't think he could win a game where the other team drops 30+.

That's how I see it. Kelly obviously has a better eye on the situation.

Edit: He was a very good back-up.

Tommy Rees threw 7 interceptions in the final five games of the season, as many Crist threw in 9.

 

[TDHeysus]

I think Crist will defintely get the started job....if Crist had more escapabilty, there would be no competition. The young QB's have the ability to extend a play with their escapability, they also have the ability to tuck and run when needed. Those elements are not strengths in Crist's game (escapabilty, run ability) which directly conflicts with what BK's needs from the QB position.

for reference: look Golson in the spring game, minus the fact that he was a freshman running around with his head chopped off, you can see the raw escapabilty that he has, its undeniable. Its just as undeniable that Crist does not have element to his game. that isnt a knock on Crist, Crist is a pocket passer, and was recruited to run an offense to uses the skills of a pocket passer.

I think the dliemna that BK is facing, his most talented QB does not have the ideal skillset to fit his offense. Can Crist's skillset overcome the lack of escapability?

I see Crist starting, seeing most of the snaps, with one of the young guys (i'm guessing Hendrix) coming in and opening up the offense on given plays.

 

[GoldenDomer87]

PASSING GP Effic Cmp-Att-Int Pct Yards TD Long Avg/G
CRIST, Dayne 9 129.3 174-294-7 59.2 2033 15 95 225.9
REES, Tommy 9 132.0 100-164-8 61.0 1106 12 36 122.9


RUSHING GP Att Gain Loss Net Avg TD Long Avg/G
CRIST, Dayne 9 52 174 100 74 1.4 4 29 8.2
REES, Tommy 9 12 20 22 -2 -0.2 0 12 -0.2

I think these show Crist runs it better with, arguably, tougher competition.

I have no problem with a discussion kmoose. I like hearing the other side.


Edit: These come from und.com. Thanks und.com. Sorry for the jumble.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I think Crist will defintely get the started job....if Crist had more escapabilty, there would be no competition. The young QB's have the ability to extend a play with their escapability, they also have the ability to tuck and run when needed. Those elements are not strengths in Crist's game (escapabilty, run ability) which directly conflicts with what BK's needs from the QB position.

I think the dliemna that BK is facing, his most talented QB does not have the ideal skillset to fit his offense. Can Crist's skillset overcome the lack of escapability?

BK said recently that all he needs from Crist is escapability. It would be nice if Crist could run the Option Read, but it's not all that important (and probably not worth the risk).

Crist's mobility isn't bad. He's not a dual threat, but he's not nearly as immobile as Rees. With an improved OL and the natural jump in awareness that should come with a 2nd year in Kelly's system, I expect to see Dayne extending plenty of plays with his legs in 2011.

 

[NDinL.A.]

Dayne Crist was 0-3 against teams that scored 30+ on ND(Michigan State, Stanford, Navy), last year.

Rees was 0-0 against teams that scored 20 points against ND last year as a starter, and the one game where he basically played the whole game but didn't start, he lost when ND gave up more than 20 pts. I'm dying to see Crist play with a running game and a defense. If he can't handle it, Rees is a great option. But the way Kelly is talking, and the way the reps have been set up when the media is there, Dayne Crist is going to be our starter this year. Hopefully he can put it together...

 

[Irish4Life09]

Lynch returns to campus, other notes | Inside the Irish



Just thought I should post this as it pertains to the discussion.

I heavily disagree with this writeup. We aren't mad at Tommy because he is one-dimensional, to be honest he is less than one dimensional. What we want in a QB is someone who doesn't constantly turn the ball over when the game is on the line, and can throw the ball more than 20 yards and accurately.