Quarterback Competition Update (4-11-11)

[ND_HAS_RISEN]

The key word is "if" in your argument over the defense stepping up, it's just mere speculation. They def. were not playing to their potential in some of Crist's games, but clearly they had a different approach in the last 4 games. If you think it's pop warner to play small ball that's a suggestion, but we also have to look at other offenses who play certain schemes, Georigia Tech with the Triple option, and need I remind you of Navy and Dobbs in just the option, that is an aspect of a smash mouth ground game.

Why can they not utilize slants and screens a whole game if it works? I know they will change offensive schemes to give them the advantage to different types of defense but until then, I am satisfied with what they are doing or what they did with Rees

The triple option is a very deadly offense. I am not aware of any single offense that only utilizes slants and screens all game like the triple option does the run. ( all Wies JOKES ASIDE ). One of the most deadly plays from the triple option is the deep ball, because they tempt you to bring 9 and 10 in the box, lull you to sleep with the run, and the rest is history... Also the triple option spreads the RUN ATTACK. You have to defend the middle, outside the tackles, and the sideline.

It’s not even comparable!

 

[NDinL.A.]

I avoided this thread b/c I didn't want to get too excited for the SF game yet LOL. Big mistake LOL. I was alerted to this thread by another member complaining about zsteele being a troll. And Steele, you've posted on only 2 threads, and have been a disaster on both. On this thread, you've complimented Rees on being more conservative and chastised Crist for being a gunslinger and throwing too many INTs, ignoring the fact that Rees threw more picks than Crist. And you didn't even remember the USC game until someone reminded you?

And you want Rees to start because he's the underdog and you like those stories????? IS this a Disney movie or a football game? How about this - give me the guy who gives us the best chance to win. If that is Rees, fine. And the sad thing is, there are reasons to give Rees the start, AND YOU HAVEN'T MENTIONED ANY OF THEM! That's why it is so easy for these members to rip your argument to shreds.

And then you bring up Aldredge in the USC game???? Sorry, but that just screams troll. If you don't know the team all that well (nothing wrong with that) or you are a new fan (nothing wrong with that), then read more, post less. Far less. As it is, I'll probably be moving all of these posts to the Crist vs. Rees thread...

 

[Rocket89]

 

[Whiskeyjack]

 

[NDFANnSouthWest]

sorry...could not help it...

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/hFgiUm4lQig" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[AlbuquerqueIrishFan]

Wow. It's getting ugly around here. Watching just the reply of the USC game is all one needs to know about Reese. He may have some intangibles and he won some games, but he's not the guy. He's not the starter. That job is all Crist.

 

[BGIF]

Wow. It's getting ugly around here. Watching just the reply of the USC game is all one needs to know about Reese. He may have some intangibles and he won some games, but he's not the guy. He's not the starter. That job is all Crist.

Reese?

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Great article by The Biscuit of HLS comparing Crist and Rees statistically.

We know Rees enjoyed a better defense and rushing attack than Crist, but exactly how much better? Take a look and find out.

 

[Rhode Irish]

Great article by The Biscuit of HLS comparing Crist and Rees statistically.

We know Rees enjoyed a better defense and rushing attack than Crist, but exactly how much better? Take a look and find out.

Really good stuff there (although I think the credit should really go to "Jack," with a thanks to the Biscuit for sharing it at HLS). Pretty much confirms what a lot of us have been contending.

 

[kmoose]

At the end of the day, Crist performed better than other team’s QBs against the same competition, and Rees performed slightly below average. And when you compare within team stats, it’s interesting to note that Crist’s relative performance was one of the lone highlights in the first 8 games. Most of the team’s stats markers were underperforming, but Crist wasn’t. He overperformed while those around him were average to slightly below average. At the end of the season, it was the opposite for Rees. His team was overperforming on metrics, while he was average to slightly underperforming.

So he's saying that Rees made everyone around him better, while Crist couldn't? If Rees was making everyone around him better, while playing "average to slightly underperforming", imagine how this offense will click once Rees gets his feet fully under him, and raises his own level of play..........

But..........we all "know" that Crist is going to be the starter, vs. S. Fla.

 

[Rhode Irish]

So he's saying that Rees made everyone around him better, while Crist couldn't? If Rees was making everyone around him better, while playing "average to slightly underperforming", imagine how this offense will click once Rees gets his feet fully under him, and raises his own level of play..........

But..........we all "know" that Crist is going to be the starter, vs. S. Fla.

So ... you either did not read it or you did not quite get it.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

So he's saying that Rees made everyone around him better, while Crist couldn't? If Rees was making everyone around him better, while playing "average to slightly underperforming", imagine how this offense will click once Rees gets his feet fully under him, and raises his own level of play..........

But..........we all "know" that Crist is going to be the starter, vs. S. Fla.

If you subscribe to the theory that QBs can magically boost the performance of the defense, OL, and RBs, then you're beyond my power to help.

Derp.

 

[kmoose]

The point is that others may have been playing better because Rees had the defense looking at other areas. I doubt it's true: but it is one those things that QBs often get credit for, whether they actively affected it or not. I guess I should have italicized the statement about Rees raising the level of play around him.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I think this thread gave me the flu!

 

[kmoose]

All of the tongue in cheek joking, and hyperbole, aside..........

I think there is something to be said for the performance of the offense, as a whole, during the Rees campaign:

Kelly made no bones about the fact that he "dumbed down" the offense for Rees. I know everyone talks about how well the defense played, down the stretch........and they did play extremely well. But the offense started to really move the ball, and score, as well. I think that this supports the old saying, "Sometimes, less is more." Less complexity can certainly lead to more offense, in some cases. That's not saying that ND players are not smart enough to pick up Kelly's offense. I'm just saying that maybe the fact that Rees was the starter was secondary to the offense being simpler to execute. Many people have fallen in lust with the offensive explosion that has taken place in College Football, in the last 15-20 years. But there's also room for simplicity, perfectly executed. Navy hasn't been at the top of the rushing charts, for years on end, because they have home run threats all over the field. They are there because they EXECUTE with near perfection. For those of you who are old enough to remember the Holtz years, and really understood what they were watching then.......... remember when 3rd and 9 was a RUNNING down? If you were an opposing D Coordinator, there was no way you were dropping your linebackers into coverage at the snap on 3rd and anything less than 20. If you did, your LBs might take a 10 yard drop, only to turn back and find Ricky Watters, Reggie Brooks, Autry Denson, or one Jerome Bettis already running right past you, and splitting the safeties.

Sometimes, less is more.............

 

[Whiskeyjack]

I've never heard Kelly's system described as "complicated". If anything, it's frequently lauded for its simplicity.

Kelly's late season adjustments were probably due to a variety of factors: (1) Rees simply isn't athletic enough to run most of Kelly's base offense; (2) Kelly wanted to tailor the offense to Rees' strengths (quick release and accurate); and (3) Kelly needed to win immediately, so the faster Rees got comfortable, the better.

It sounds like you're putting a lot of emphasis on #3, and there's probably some truth to it, but I wouldn't say it was the primary reason for the offense starting to click.

I attribute our lack of rushing production under Crist to growing pains on the OL. By the time Rees took over, the OL was finally starting to gel, which lead to a more productive rushing attack; that, in turn, went a long way toward improving our offensive consistency and keeping drives alive (our ball-control scheme and Rees' accuracy also get some credit for that.)

 

[NDinL.A.]

All of the tongue in cheek joking, and hyperbole, aside..........

I think there is something to be said for the performance of the offense, as a whole, during the Rees campaign:

Kelly made no bones about the fact that he "dumbed down" the offense for Rees. I know everyone talks about how well the defense played, down the stretch........and they did play extremely well. But the offense started to really move the ball, and score, as well. I think that this supports the old saying, "Sometimes, less is more." Less complexity can certainly lead to more offense, in some cases. That's not saying that ND players are not smart enough to pick up Kelly's offense. I'm just saying that maybe the fact that Rees was the starter was secondary to the offense being simpler to execute. Many people have fallen in lust with the offensive explosion that has taken place in College Football, in the last 15-20 years. But there's also room for simplicity, perfectly executed. Navy hasn't been at the top of the rushing charts, for years on end, because they have home run threats all over the field. They are there because they EXECUTE with near perfection. For those of you who are old enough to remember the Holtz years, and really understood what they were watching then.......... remember when 3rd and 9 was a RUNNING down? If you were an opposing D Coordinator, there was no way you were dropping your linebackers into coverage at the snap on 3rd and anything less than 20. If you did, your LBs might take a 10 yard drop, only to turn back and find Ricky Watters, Reggie Brooks, Autry Denson, or one Jerome Bettis already running right past you, and splitting the safeties.

Sometimes, less is more.............

Just to add to that...Kelly expected a lot more of Crist, and would just ream him out practically every time he came out of the game btw, I didn't have a problem with it then, so I can't complain). He took a MUCH softer with Rees and allowed him some breathing room. It seemed to work. I have no problem with BK getting after his QB's (Dan Hawkins taught me that THIS IS DIVISION 1 FOOTBALL!!!If Crist can't handle it, "go play intramurals brother!"), but he does need to se which way works with Crist.

2nd year in BK's offense, Floyd back, 4 returning starters on the O-line plus Chris Watt (or Nuss), Wood and Riddick a year better, and the way BK gets the most out of his QB's ------ I expect a much better year from the offense. If the defense can continue to play well, then damn, we should be pretty damn good this year!!!

 

[Rhode Irish]

All of the tongue in cheek joking, and hyperbole, aside..........

I think there is something to be said for the performance of the offense, as a whole, during the Rees campaign:

Kelly made no bones about the fact that he "dumbed down" the offense for Rees. I know everyone talks about how well the defense played, down the stretch........and they did play extremely well. But the offense started to really move the ball, and score, as well. I think that this supports the old saying, "Sometimes, less is more." Less complexity can certainly lead to more offense, in some cases. That's not saying that ND players are not smart enough to pick up Kelly's offense. I'm just saying that maybe the fact that Rees was the starter was secondary to the offense being simpler to execute. Many people have fallen in lust with the offensive explosion that has taken place in College Football, in the last 15-20 years. But there's also room for simplicity, perfectly executed. Navy hasn't been at the top of the rushing charts, for years on end, because they have home run threats all over the field. They are there because they EXECUTE with near perfection. For those of you who are old enough to remember the Holtz years, and really understood what they were watching then.......... remember when 3rd and 9 was a RUNNING down? If you were an opposing D Coordinator, there was no way you were dropping your linebackers into coverage at the snap on 3rd and anything less than 20. If you did, your LBs might take a 10 yard drop, only to turn back and find Ricky Watters, Reggie Brooks, Autry Denson, or one Jerome Bettis already running right past you, and splitting the safeties.

Sometimes, less is more.............

OK, so maybe I'm misconstruing your point, but I don't see how anything you said would be an argument for Rees starting. Even if we accepted as true the idea that the Irish offense was better with Rees (note: it wasn't, but just for the sake of argument) because it was simplified, wouldn't that be an argument for simplifying the offense rather than starting your 2nd or 3rd best QB? Even if Kelly decided to stick with the Rees Offense for 2011-12, I'd still rather have Crist running it because he is better than Rees.

 

[kmoose]

OK, so maybe I'm misconstruing your point, but I don't see how anything you said would be an argument for Rees starting.

That's because I'm not making an argument for Rees starting.

 

[Rocket89]

It all starts with the offense clicking down the stretch with Rees, which it was not. Or, if that's Notre Dame's offense "clicking" then we're in a lot of trouble.

We underperformed against Tulsa. Totaled an aenemic 256 yards against Utah, put up a very pedestrain 369 yards and only 20 points on offense against Army, a terrible performance against USC, and one good game against Miami.

I'm not sure at what program they think 1 good performance out of 5 is considered clicking, but it's not Notre Dame.

 

[WabashFalcon]

Kelly's spread really comes down to the best Progression Quarterback. Each play has a primary, a secondary, a checkdown, and a hot route. It is a simple systems with a TON of manipulation of the route tree, with man and zone busters.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

It all starts with the offense clicking down the stretch with Rees, which it was not. Or, if that's Notre Dame's offense "clicking" then we're in a lot of trouble.

We underperformed against Tulsa. Totaled an aenemic 256 yards against Utah, put up a very pedestrain 369 yards and only 20 points on offense against Army, a terrible performance against USC, and one good game against Miami.

I'm not sure at what program they think 1 good performance out of 5 is considered clicking, but it's not Notre Dame.

So, let me get this clear Rocket, who do you propose start for ND this year?

 

[pkt77242]

It all starts with the offense clicking down the stretch with Rees, which it was not. Or, if that's Notre Dame's offense "clicking" then we're in a lot of trouble.

We underperformed against Tulsa. Totaled an aenemic 256 yards against Utah, put up a very pedestrain 369 yards and only 20 points on offense against Army, a terrible performance against USC, and one good game against Miami.

I'm not sure at what program they think 1 good performance out of 5 is considered clicking, but it's not Notre Dame.

We really only underperfomed offensively against Tulsa because of Turnovers (4) and third down conversions 3/14. yardage was solid though.

Passing: 33/56 (59%) 334 yds 4 tds.
Rushing: 24 att 124 yds 5.2 ypc

Turnovers are what killed us though.

 

[GoldenDomer87]

Easy Decision

Easy Decision

I think this shouldn't be a competition. Crist has to be and should the starter. Crist had to learn a whole new system, while Rees ran something similar in high school. The added year will help Crist in his understanding of the offense. Crist is physically better than Rees; he throws with more accuracy, has a better arm, and more mobility.

Lets be honest, Crist was playing with an average defense, while Rees was playing with a defense that allowed like 10 pts a game. Crist was inconsistent at times but also showed he could do it (near comeback against Michigan). The offense just seems more potent with Crist running things.

 

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

New guy basically sums it up perfectly. Crist is the starter, and Rees is a nice storyline from 2010.

 

[Rocket89]

So, let me get this clear Rocket, who do you propose start for ND this year?

#TeamDC

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Amen, bro!

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Dayne is our best QB, bar none.

 

[BGIF]

Dayne is our best QB, bar none.

So you've seen him run an offense this summer on a his pair of surgically rebuilt knees.


Yeah, I didn't think so.

 

[BGIF]

Kelly's spread really comes down to the best Progression Quarterback. Each play has a primary, a secondary, a checkdown, and a hot route. It is a simple systems with a TON of manipulation of the route tree, with man and zone busters.

As I recall Crist saw only Floyd, and then, saw only Rudy. What's the value of of multiple receivers when you don't look for them?