No more national anthem at pacifist Indiana college

[Old Man Mike]

It's another Notre Dame miracle. But geez, didn't abc's post even feel better than the rest of the thread?? Maybe the fire had to precede the water, .... so, OK. All good, as I learned something important from him [and positive repped him for it].

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

Me too. Part of my M.O. is to identify and listen to higher intelligence. I keep failing but keep trying. OldMM and SirDshands would fit that category, but they steal my women. But...

Nice post Abc...

Nice post, SirDishands of the House of Palmolive, and of course, Old Man Mike.

 

[k1ssme1m1r1sh]

Will the school also no longer be accepting government funding of any sort? Didn't think so...

This is just a talking point. I feel like I have earned my right to respond to this, because of the mishandling of government funds as it is, but this response is lacking in common sense in a bad way.

No offense to you, but your opinion on this matter is heavily skewed. I am a single mother and no one can tell you about government funds being accepted by the undeserving better than I can. I do not feel that it is unpatriotic not to play the anthem and I will tell you why. Not every school does. In my high school, we had the anthem played for football, and important games, such as division or state title games. Football, and that was it. Granted it was not a collegiate athlethic event, BUT public schools do accept federal grants, and so by your comment I am left to assume that if a person or entity is not "patriotic" enough for one's taste they should be blackballed from federal money? No. Not when education is involved.

I love ND with all my heart, but I disagree strongly with Catholic religious beliefs. I found it highly disrespectful and unAmerican to protest a sitting president (and the first black president mind you!) from attending commencement. To turn the biggest accomplishment of one's life, which was graduating from a Division 1 school, with a very stringent academic standard, and one of the toughest academic cirricula in the country, into an abortion debate, was quite frankly...sickening. Everyday on my way to work I was forced to look at embryonic remains on the sides of vehicles. Listen to protests, and at times, have objects heaved at my car by protestors. For the one of the most prestigious universities in the nation, this display was disrespectful to me as a woman, and an American.

Everyday there are undeserving people sitting on programs paid for by my tax dollars, and there's nothing I can do about it. People getting free healthcare for simply being lazy. People getting free food, but with iPhones, Xboxes and luxuries that people with actual jobs struggle to obtain. It makes me sick. Again, nothing I can do about it, and I must find solace in the fact that some of that money pays for innocent children to eat, and have healthcare, regardless of the fact that their parents are lazy. I am not inferring that all people on assistance are lazy, I'm only referring the abusers of the system. We all know someone like this.

I do not agree with everything that happens in this nation, but I do believe in our Constitution, and I do believe in the rights to free speech, freedom of religion, and freedom to choose. I believe in freedom of opinion, and am blessed that there are folks out there who will lay down their lives, sacrifice their families, their time, and watching their children grow to ensure my freedoms.

Hate and ignorance are not the answers. Ever. I believe, that in this day and age, we should all use our maturity to look past trivial issues. College is not easy. To make a decision to attend college to better yourself, should never be looked upon with hatred for something you don't understand. To disagree is your right, but we all can benefit with a little exercise of common sense, and understanding.

 

[Old Man Mike]

Thank you for the wisdom and the measured commentary.

 

[phgreek]

To add a little factual information into to this hate-slinging thread: [quite disgusting all around to me, but at least it's in the Leprechaun Lounge so I must "obey" everyone's right to throw rocks at one another].

Goshen College received government money in the form of two grants in 2010: 1). a grant from the Department of Health and Human Services for tuition assistance for graduate school nursing students; and 2). a grant from the Department of Education to support a "Campus Center for Childcare" for children of low-income students. I trust that everyone will make of that what they will.

Don't conflate "Federal funding" and "grants"...the intent of federal funding in the previous context goes beyond competitive grants. Are you saying thats the entirety of the money Goshen got from the Fed.? In addition, are you saying the title under which the grants were given should change my perception of the institution itself? You provided facts...but in support of what?

It reminds me a bit of the old story about Stalin. He stated that contrary to external opinion, he was quite patient with people objecting to his policies. When that statement was met with raised eyebrows, he said: Oh yes. I listen and hear them out. Then I order them shot. [he then went back to his vodka].

It's a great hatin' world to live in. We need all the threads on this sort of thing that we can get.

I said folks would cry censorship and intimidation...You say Stalin...talk about an order of magnitude underestimation on my part...

What is it about academians (remember we are in the Lounge...so based on your precedent its ok for me to generalize) that makes them so damned angry when someone pushes back...Somewhere in that bubble of higher thought you folks end up with a sense of superiority AND entitlement...and usually come off as hypocritical. It is you folks that tout acceptance of all points of view, and dialogue as the engine to enlightenment...or is it enlightenment only when all arrive at your way of seeing things?

Academians seem to have hoodwinked some into believing they have special protections beyond everyone else. Again, you can teach anything you want (well mostly); you can sing the Canadian Anthem if you want, without the threat of being shot or chucked in jail...but that doesn't mean we are going to send our kids and give you tax dollars or otherwise support your existance...none of those responses are censorship, or violate free speech. You academians do a nice job sticking up for each other and intentionally confusing the scope of free speech and censorship...but alas academic institutions are susceptible to opposition should someone have the means and gumption...

Finally, in what context are any of the actions previously offered in response to Goshen comparable to Stalin...Only an academian would infer opposition to Goshen as comparable to murder and think that was reasonable...you need to put down the relativism goggles long enough to relate to people that don't need a grade from you.

End of generalizations...

In all seriousness OMM...Stalin? I normally applaud your posts...even when I disagree... I'm sorry if this stuff makes you feel uncomfortable...but your apparent discomfort leads you to see "hate"...and honestly there weren't any rocks thrown or hate until you dropped a Stalin on us.

P.S. to any academian who has the misfortune of reading this...I apologize. I was making a point. Outside my family, teachers and professors dominate my list of mentors.

 

[irish4ever]

Damned America hating, borscht eating, vodka swilling, pinko commies.

Yeah, what he said!

 

[johnnykillz]

It's their right,... more power to them...

but on a side note... in all due respect, speaking on a poster I have respect for and who is rightfully on my "friends list," it never seizes to amaze me how some people can live in this country,... earn a top education, in this country,... make a good living and life for themselves, in this country.... enjoy all the freedoms that this country alone has given them and theirs, then speak things like the National Anthem is "mindless and meaningless"... I never understood that mindset... never will.

Amen.

All gave some, some gave all.
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7nJTqpKlZ9U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Most know I'm the biggest conspiracy theorist on this board.

But NO ONE should disrespect what those that gave all stood for in the end.

To me, there is no other way to take this.

So a township wants to show independence from God, or country: Bikini Atoll is prime real estate, free from the confines of God, what is defined as a "country," and civil anything. No infrastructure to support quick vacations. I'm certain half the town could buy some Geiger Muller counters, a decommissioned cruise ship still seaworthy and set sail to the land of thyroid and luekemia cancer...

 

[irishpat183]

Don't conflate "Federal funding" and "grants"...the intent of federal funding in the previous context goes beyond competitive grants. Are you saying thats the entirety of the money Goshen got from the Fed.? In addition, are you saying the title under which the grants were given should change my perception of the institution itself? You provided facts...but in support of what?



I said folks would cry censorship and intimidation...You say Stalin...talk about an order of magnitude underestimation on my part...

What is it about academians (remember we are in the Lounge...so based on your precedent its ok for me to generalize) that makes them so damned angry when someone pushes back...Somewhere in that bubble of higher thought you folks end up with a sense of superiority AND entitlement...and usually come off as hypocritical. It is you folks that tout acceptance of all points of view, and dialogue as the engine to enlightenment...or is it enlightenment only when all arrive at your way of seeing things?

Academians seem to have hoodwinked some into believing they have special protections beyond everyone else. Again, you can teach anything you want (well mostly); you can sing the Canadian Anthem if you want, without the threat of being shot or chucked in jail...but that doesn't mean we are going to send our kids and give you tax dollars or otherwise support your existance...none of those responses are censorship, or violate free speech. You academians do a nice job sticking up for each other and intentionally confusing the scope of free speech and censorship...but alas academic institutions are susceptible to opposition should someone have the means and gumption...

Finally, in what context are any of the actions previously offered in response to Goshen comparable to Stalin...Only an academian would infer opposition to Goshen as comparable to murder and think that was reasonable...you need to put down the relativism goggles long enough to relate to people that don't need a grade from you.

End of generalizations...

In all seriousness OMM...Stalin? I normally applaud your posts...even when I disagree... I'm sorry if this stuff makes you feel uncomfortable...but your apparent discomfort leads you to see "hate"...and honestly there weren't any rocks thrown or hate until you dropped a Stalin on us.

P.S. to any academian who has the misfortune of reading this...I apologize. I was making a point. Outside my family, teachers and professors dominate my list of mentors.

I can attack everyone else and it's free speech...but when someone attacks MY way of thinking, it's a violation of that speech, or just hate.

That's as simple as I can put it when it comes to the Academians. Funny thing is, same goes for celebs on tv...it's as if people follow them like mindless zombies. Simply because someone can gain audience (whether by TV or classroom) doesn't mean they're the authority on the subject. We give people too much credit that doens't deserve.

 

[woolybug25]

I dabbled in pacifism once... not in Nam, of course.