Jenkins breaks silence on Seeberg allegations

[devolg]

Jenkins breaks silence on Seeberg allegations - wsbt.com

 

[tadman95]

Good

 

[Shamrocks and Shenanigans]

Very good.

 

[IrishinSyria]

This is the article that should have been on the front page of the Chicago Tribune.

 

[DomerBoy]

I have to say ND PR and Crisis management need a revamp. It is a little late for disciplinary actions now as the Notre Dame name has already been tarnished and the football season is pretty much over.

 

[Fan of the Irish]

Good to see an article with some actual facts in it and not just bashing Notre Dame

 

[jonesman]

I will be very interested to see what kind of discipline they issue to the two individuals. With the fact this issue seems to continue on, I would not be suprised to see this player transfer out of ND to get away from this whole issue.

If the player is who has been mentioned on many sites, I would hate to lose him. But, you could understand the desire to get a fresh start somewhere else.

 

[NDFANnSouthWest]

It would sux to lose him..however there is something here much bigger than the game. Only the administration have all the data...and the individuals involved know in their heart what went down. Tragic situation no matter how you slice it....breaks my heart.

 

[johnnykillz]

I only read about discipline... Never did I attain, while skimming, the player in mind would be released. His comments via text were very questionable. I don't see a kid getting much more than two or three games discipline for such.

Are we certain he touched her breasts without her consent guys? Really? I mean I have two daughters, one here and the other inbound February-ish, and I love them. But I've known women to cry wolf. Everyone has...

I'm certain the kid(s) had no idea she would take her own life over this incident. The stress and anxiety this has caused them is undeniable. They are not the victims. I'll agree. But in a small, collective sense, they are victims. If she had sought to imprison the said party, I believe this would have become her focal point.

Suicide is a strange issue. The complexity given it's scheme goes far beyond normal and healthy concepts. It's a last resort for some; Others look at it a way to execute revenge - a selfish act. Trust me, my brother took his own life in 2002.

Lastly, the bible has words related to this. Seek the good book's wisdom. Judgement is God's.

I hate what has happened. But this is this.

 

[CanadianIrish]

Who, allegedly, is the player? I haven't seen anything on any website about it. Could someone please send me a private message with a link in it.

 

[dskoo65]

they had the timeline of events along with this article in the sb tribune. the amount of time the nd police took to interview the player from the initial report (roughly two weeks) would be an embarrasment to any actual police force (jenkins assertion that they were just being careful doesnt wash, as interviewing the player would not have precluded them being careful). there was no question as to who the player was. ND should just let the local police take over when there are serious allegations made.

even if they are not guilty of being less than objective, it looks bad when the nd police act like finding the player was difficult.

 

[TerryTate]

There were no charges filed, as such, there will not be a player named. Why is this so hard to comprehend?

The family wants closure, and the school is abiding by the bylaws. Everything is proceeding by protocol. The Tribune doesn't seem to comprehend how this is supposed to work.

Touching breasts is at most sexual battery, which has not been confirmed. This was not rape. Look guys, everyone wants definitive answers in this matter; however, there are privacy laws and protocol in place for this. Everyone can't get a complete picture of the matter, and to be honest, the public does not have a right to know everything that happened. Let's be adults about this and let police/judicial procedure take it's course.

98% of you do not have law degrees, have any idea how this process works, understand how 'innocent until proven guilty' applies to this case, and how the Notre Dame Honor Code applies.

This article is well written; I cannot say the same for the comments.

 

[TerryTate]

they had the timeline of events along with this article in the sb tribune. the amount of time the nd police took to interview the player from the initial report (roughly two weeks) would be an embarrasment to any actual police force (jenkins assertion that they were just being careful doesnt wash, as interviewing the player would not have precluded them being careful). there was no question as to who the player was. ND should just let the local police take over when there are serious allegations made.

even if they are not guilty of being less than objective, it looks bad when the nd police act like finding the player was difficult.

Read the article again, apparently reading comprehension has failed you.

 

[GreatGolson]

^ Thankyou for clearing this up, tired of ESPN refering to it as a "sex case" (saw that used on ESPNs twitter and nearly emailed their webmaster)

 

[NCDomer]

I've worked as a prosecutor. It's not surprising by any measure that it took two weeks for the investigators to really get the investigation going. It all depends on the current workload. After all, if they initially get a report of improper breast touching, how high on their list of things to investigate do you think it ranks? OTOH, if the initial report they received dealt with rape, then there's no way around it--they f***d up.

Regardless, I would think the investigators would be smart enough to prioritize such an allegation (improper touching or rape) given the high profile of the accused. While it sucks to play a popularity contest with cases, it usually drives cases because while you always want to do your best, the prime time situations are what give you your reputation. The last thing any component in the justice system wants or needs is to have the public lose faith in it.

*caveat: I'm working in an information deficit and make some assumptions based on my casual following of the case. I'm simply giving my opinion and make statements based on my limited understanding of the facts at hand.*

 

[k1ssme1m1r1sh]

Do you all know that people here in South Bend are actually demanding to know who the player is? They are saying that as "fathers" or "parents" it's their right to know. The young man was not and will not be charged.

Also, people here seem to be all over the fact that a DNA kit was done. As a nurse, I know how it works when sexual assault was reported. If she never accused the player of rape they never did a pelvic exam, what they did most likely, was scrape under her fingernails and collect DNA like hair strands etc. Lizzy Seeburg herself said in a statement to campus police that all that happened was her breasts were touched with her consent.

This is why people have to be very very careful with allegations of a sexual nature. All the haters here in South Bend care about is seeing this player taken off the team, and run out of town on a rail. But that's how people in South Bend are. If they live here and aren't fans, they tend to forget without ND boosting their economy South Bend wouldn't exist. Sorry, I'm going off on a tangent, but I hate to see this young man being maligned solely for the pleasure of bringing down ND, and exploiting a young lady who comitted suicide.

Also would like to add, that sexual assault cases rarely are ever flash in the pan, report one day, trial the next type cases. Just recently, a restaurant owner in my town was convicted by jury of raping his step daughter. There was DNA proof that the child was telling the truth. She was assaulted for a period of 15 months between ages 11 and 13, and she had to wait almost 3 years to see her abuser brought to justice.

 

[Old Man Mike]

All I have about this unfortunate situation are my intuitions. They seem to point fairly strongly to one hypothesis: a). a young woman who had been fighting some internal chemistry problems, which magnified her "normal" concerns about growing into her womanhood, placed herself in a potentially sexual situation [mildly] with a physical stud;

b). when the action began to take place [by her own admission, to begin with, consensually], she got nervous and started to turn the stud off;

c). he pursued the moment only briefly, and not sexually in any legal sense of the word, and then, probably disgustedly, DID turn off;

d). she made some comment to him about not turning off fast enough. This comment reflected the difference in their understanding of one another, despite the fact that the stud had actually quit his advances;

e). He probably said something back, which included an insult. She probably retorted. The other couple heard the implied threat;

f). Now both guys are scared of consequences [and the other guy tweets something stupid without the stud even knowing that he'd done it];

g). For her the whole affair is a nightmare. Without an effective support system to carry her over the emotional consequences there at the College, her view of herself depresses to that point reached, sadly, by many depressives, and she makes a terrible and unnecessary mistake;

h). from a situation occurring probably hundreds of times daily in this country, we end up with a suicide. The parents, at least subconsciously on a guilt trip themselves, react to this also "normally", by emotionally striking out. This genuine but irrational outrage effectively blunts their own guilty feelings. The fact that none of this is probably their fault either [except the decision to let a depressed daughter go away from home to college] does not matter to the emotional landscape;

i). Notre Dame handles the situation as well as it can---a calm investigation of facts, coupled with regular conversations with the family. It waits appropriately for the investigation's results;

j). The police do their due diligence and collect statements from relevant parties. They see nearly immediately that this is not a sex crime case, nor does the complaintant claim so. They have doubtless been brought in on hundreds of such complaints in the past, and with the terrible exception that this girl overdosed, this is like them. The young woman's situation of taking medicine for depression is also immediately known;

k). The media is delighted with a dirt story on a newsworthy organization, even though they have to invent half of it. This will sell newspapers for a few days. Of course they don't give a rat's a*s about the girl or the family. They DO however give the father some platforms from which to vent his emotions, and he is happy to do so. This includes violating the stud's name by direct accusations which the law investigation did not, and at the end, does not support.

This is the hypothesis that comes to mind to "fit" the facts as have been stated to us. Even if points in this hypothesis are debatable, it is a hypothesis that must be seriously considered when a situation containing things this major is to be judged. I see nothing in this that would lead me to want to try to attack and destroy this player's life. Because of that, I applaud the policy on this board of not naming him [although you can find it if you have any patience at all]. The less he is even named, the better the "fading" of all this will be. Let the "curiosity" and the over-the-fence gossip mentality go. Let the guy get on with his life.

By the way, while teaching in college for several decades, I wrote a policy for sexual harassment violations in the classroom and helped get one psych professor a "leave-of-absence" for a year. I'm part of the harassment police myself in these matters, and don't apologize for the hypothesis written above.

 

[johnnykillz]

*caveat: I'm working in an information deficit and make some assumptions based on my casual following of the case. I'm simply giving my opinion and make statements based on my limited understanding of the facts at hand.*

Read this like a drug disclaimer.

Though rare, sometimes Notredame may cause bleeding of the arse, ulcers, induced comatose, over drinking, binge eating, ...


Awesome post though NCDomer. Great look.

 

[johnnykillz]

OMM. Once again, a walk-off homerun...

 

[lookingdeadred]

The statement from Jenkins will change little

The statement from Jenkins will change little

Those who believe it was all lies and a smear campaign will see this as proof, while those who believe the university is covering up the truth to save the football team and the school's image will remain unconvinced.

That does it for now, at least until the family files the civil law suit.

All I have about this unfortunate situation are my intuitions. They seem to point fairly strongly to one hypothesis: a). a young woman who had been fighting some internal chemistry problems, which magnified her "normal" concerns about growing into her womanhood, placed herself in a potentially sexual situation [mildly] with a physical stud;

b). when the action began to take place [by her own admission, to begin with, consensually], she got nervous and started to turn the stud off;

c). he pursued the moment only briefly, and not sexually in any legal sense of the word, and then, probably disgustedly, DID turn off;

d). she made some comment to him about not turning off fast enough. This comment reflected the difference in their understanding of one another, despite the fact that the stud had actually quit his advances;

e). He probably said something back, which included an insult. She probably retorted. The other couple heard the implied threat;

f). Now both guys are scared of consequences [and the other guy tweets something stupid without the stud even knowing that he'd done it];

g). For her the whole affair is a nightmare. Without an effective support system to carry her over the emotional consequences there at the College, her view of herself depresses to that point reached, sadly, by many depressives, and she makes a terrible and unnecessary mistake;

h). from a situation occurring probably hundreds of times daily in this country, we end up with a suicide. The parents, at least subconsciously on a guilt trip themselves, react to this also "normally", by emotionally striking out. This genuine but irrational outrage effectively blunts their own guilty feelings. The fact that none of this is probably their fault either [except the decision to let a depressed daughter go away from home to college] does not matter to the emotional landscape;

i). Notre Dame handles the situation as well as it can---a calm investigation of facts, coupled with regular conversations with the family. It waits appropriately for the investigation's results;

j). The police do their due diligence and collect statements from relevant parties. They see nearly immediately that this is not a sex crime case, nor does the complaintant claim so. They have doubtless been brought in on hundreds of such complaints in the past, and with the terrible exception that this girl overdosed, this is like them. The young woman's situation of taking medicine for depression is also immediately known;

k). The media is delighted with a dirt story on a newsworthy organization, even though they have to invent half of it. This will sell newspapers for a few days. Of course they don't give a rat's a*s about the girl or the family. They DO however give the father some platforms from which to vent his emotions, and he is happy to do so. This includes violating the stud's name by direct accusations which the law investigation did not, and at the end, does not support.

This is the hypothesis that comes to mind to "fit" the facts as have been stated to us. Even if points in this hypothesis are debatable, it is a hypothesis that must be seriously considered when a situation containing things this major is to be judged. I see nothing in this that would lead me to want to try to attack and destroy this player's life. Because of that, I applaud the policy on this board of not naming him [although you can find it if you have any patience at all]. The less he is even named, the better the "fading" of all this will be. Let the "curiosity" and the over-the-fence gossip mentality go. Let the guy get on with his life.

By the way, while teaching in college for several decades, I wrote a policy for sexual harassment violations in the classroom and helped get one psych professor a "leave-of-absence" for a year. I'm part of the harassment police myself in these matters, and don't apologize for the hypothesis written above.

 

[devolg]

WSBT posted a link to this story on their Facebook page. Contained within the long list of anti ND comments was this

Players name blanked for obvious reasons.

Its amazing to me that xxxxx is walking away from this with his hands clean. And its not like the catholics have a history of covering up sex scandles! .......

Needless to say I was very disturbed.

I quickly fired off an Email to WSBT & not only let them know it was there & how wrong it was but that I also have a direct line of communication with said player & that their lawyer might be interested to know you've allowed the comment to remain. As was revealed to in part of the Tribunes story.............

Chicago attorney Joseph A. Power Jr., who is representing the player, said Thursday he is working to halt defamatory claims that have been reported about the young man in news reports and on Internet websites

Obviously theres probably very little legal action that can be taken over a Facebook comment especially when WSBT had no control over the words of someone else but I was irritated & wanted them to take notice.

Here's the response I got within minutes.....

Gary—

Thank you so much for pointing this post out to us. We are generally quite proactive in monitoring posts for profanity and libelous information, but this one must have slipped through the cracks. Thank you very much for bringing it to our attention, it has been removed.

Have a nice day--

Ashley Henderson

Web Producer

 

[IrishinSyria]

d). she made some comment to him about not turning off fast enough. This comment reflected the difference in their understanding of one another, despite the fact that the stud had actually quit his advances;

e). He probably said something back, which included an insult. She probably retorted. The other couple heard the implied threat;

OMM, I think you're on the ball except I'm not sure where you're getting these two points from. As far as I know, the ND dude was never accused of insulting or threatening her. It was his buddy (not a football player) who sent the !STUPID! text message.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

I hope I don't get blasted for this, but I see nothing wrong with what allegedly went down.

Two young adults were drinking, they started kissing, they guy made a move, and was told no.

After probably trying a bit more (understandably within reason) he stopped.

Every guy in the world has been through this many times.

It's a tragic shame what happened to her afterwards, but it couldn't have been because of this incident.

 

[k1ssme1m1r1sh]

I hope I don't get blasted for this, but I see nothing wrong with what allegedly went down.

Two young adults were drinking, they started kissing, they guy made a move, and was told no.

After probably trying a bit more (understandably within reason) he stopped.

Every guy in the world has been through this many times.

It's a tragic shame what happened to her afterwards, but it couldn't have been because of this incident.

I must say that I kind of agree. I was touched inappropriately at a bar last weekend. I was singing karaoke and a drunk middle aged man climbed on the stage to try to dance and touch me, so much so, that the DJ had to tell him to back off, after I shoved him a few times. I walked past him to get to the ladies room awhile later, and he smacked my backside. I gave him a right hook, and he was thrown out. So something tells me this young lady felt rejected or hurt by this guy in some way, but I agree by what she says it doesnt seem like she'd be so distraught over him touching her chest without permission.

 

[Old Man Mike]

To Syria: I'm with you. The function of the outline was to present a reasonable hypothesis which did not violate facts as they have been stated to us. "d" is a soft way of expressing something that is entirely within the facts that she told him to quit and after a moment he did. I see no stretch of anything there. The fact that it was his buddy acting probably outside the athlete's awareness is stated clearly in point "f".

"e" is an invention on my part, but not I think a wild one. It is included to address a missing link in the sequence of reasons for later actions. We do not know why the "buddy" would have tweeted what he did unless he thought he had heard a threat of going to higher authority sometime in the "discussion". Such an implication had to come from the complaintant. What might inspire her to make such a threat when the athlete had already stopped his advances [as everyone admitted]?

My "small" invention to close this gap-of-causality was to imagine that he called her a name and this further escalated into her threatening response. Feel free to ignore point "e" if you wish, but it is an understandable way in which such a situation could escalate. And it involves nothing sexual nor criminal. In fact, my hypothesis [which I believe is defensible until contrary facts intervene] accuses the young man of little more than not being a gentleman. If he were he would have asked her to meet him for lunch on campus for a first date and they could get to know one another safely. Galahad the kid is not. Criminal he is not either.

The very large gap in our knowledge is what was happening with the young lady after the incident and specifically why she had such a bad self-image of herself and her life at that time. Why was this such a crushing thing to her that it made her not want to live? I know nothing about that, and will not speculate; but I'll bet some of her friends at St. Mary's know more of relevance about her emotions and where they were arising from than the rest of us know or need to know.

This is none of my business and if did not impact ND I'd never say another word. That's my plan now anyway.

 

[IrishinSyria]

OMM- fair enough. Like I said, I'm completely on-board with your outline, seems very reasonable. My only -objection- for lack of a better word, would be that, by my understanding, she never actually objected (she describes freezing up, but never saying "no" or resisting) and that he never "insulted" her or threatened* her.

The big picture you, and others, are painting strikes me as exactly right. A stud athlete, probably a little too confident, makes an aggressive move on a girl who is, tragically, too burdened with anxiety issues to handle this very normal part of growing up in a reasonable fashion. Very sad, and like you I wish that this incident was not being used to call into question the integrity of the University of Notre Dame.


*insulting her would show an unfortunate lack of judgment. Threatening her would have been much more serious.

 

[gatsby]

We have a typewritten statement from a young woman that soon after took her own life and had some psychological issues. We have other information about what happened but to me there is one basic conclusion, NO ONE really knows for certain what happened except for, probably, the subject player, and he isn't talking.

 

[Shamrocks and Shenanigans]

I find it funny that ND's integrity is in question here. Especially since the school has thrown a highly recruited player out of school for this in the past. Haters will always hate.

 

[dskoo65]

Two young adults were drinking, they started kissing, they guy made a move, and was told no.

After probably trying a bit more (understandably within reason) he stopped.

Every guy in the world has been through this many times.

.

i went to hs and college in the eighties. event that long ago i was taught when a girl said "no" i was done.....not that i could "try a little more within reason." these days, i would expect that should be even more clear with accusations that have occured regarding athletes

at the very least, i expect BK probably (and rightfully) read this player the riot act.

 

[devolg]

Henneberger is at it again.......

Notre Dame's Fr. Jenkins Pins Delays in Lizzy Seeberg Case on 'Discrepancies'