USA Today: Swarbrick & Kelly will not resign

[IrishBlood81]

Did Jack Swarbrick have a Presser today or yesterday? Any one have a transcript or video?

thanks

81

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

That would be a tragic accident, too, something the drunk driver never intended. I am sure it would make the driver feel miserable the rest of his life, too. But I bet you would want the perp punished.

BK could see how windy it was and should have grounded the kid. Yes, accidents happen, but when an accident happens because of a serious lapse in judgment, the person(s) responsible should own up and take his/their medicine. This lapse in judgment is going to bite BK and ND in the butt legally speaking. It will not go to trial (good for ND as they would get smoked by a jury), but it will cost them millions of dollars along with the PR black eye that this is.

I seriously doubt if this had happened to Rich Rod, or Urban Meyer, or Lane Kiffin, posters like FightingIrishLover would not be so forgiving.

This whole premise is just idiotic....

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

A victim can't control when a drunk driver decides to smash into them. Declan could
control his decision to climb or not to climb a tower with winds like that. BK should
have looked out for him a little better. In the end, more like that of the drunk driver
who gets behind the wheel, Declan had a decision to make. Unfortunately he was trying to be a good employee & forgot about his safety. More importantly now is that this incident is documented & regulations are set for whether conditions.

yet... and I mean this with all due respect to the victim, he had the time and fortune to get weather good enough to fire off several "Tweets" while up in the lift. Not saying I agree with the decision one way or another, but he was up in the tower fiddling with his cell phone....

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

Most teams in the midwest including Notre Dame were indoors last Tuesday. The accident happened on Wednesday. People are getting confused with the Jim Tressel quotes from Tuesday saying that he was worried about the videographers safety that day. I think OSU was outside Wednesday and I'm sure they filmed practice.

Correct

 

[IrishLax]

yet... and I mean this with all due respect to the victim, he had the time and fortune to get weather good enough to fire off several "Tweets" while up in the lift. Not saying I agree with the decision one way or another, but he was up in the tower fiddling with his cell phone....

I posted this in another thread but it bears repeating here.

Talking to the resident tower expert in my company, he puts the blame 100% on this kid unless he specifically told someone he did not want to go up because he felt unsafe and someone told him he would be fired if he didn't. Why?

1. It was his responsibility as much as anyone's to alert the appropriate people that he felt taping was unsafe. Both for his sake and that of others filming. As the person who is up there every day, he should be the expert.

2. Most scissor lifts have sway alarms. Assuming this one did, he ignored it.

3. Every tower climber fills out a bunch of waivers and goes through training. They know the risks and signing that piece of paper means something. Assuming ND took all the appropriate steps with their training/waivers, the consequences lie with him.

As I said in the other thread, this guy has been climbing towers for about 30 years, has seen multiple deaths/horrific accidents and is probably very jaded. At the same time, he is an absolute expert and has probably a much more objective view on this situation than any sportswriter. While I feel terrible for Declan and his family, we should not be so quick to blame others when it comes to horrific accidents. Sometimes accidents are just that... accidents.

Just some food for thought.

 

[phgreek]

...some of you guys...good lord!

Drunk Driving...Really? Thats just lazy logic that leads to out and out misrepresentation...

Negligence by Kelly, Specifically Kelly...Really? What do you guys know about the protocols and who controls what...Kelly said lets practice...may have known or assumed filming...What does that have to do the the safety Protocols for videographers...do you know NDs safety program and protocols are the same as OSU? Is that defined as Kelly's consideration? Maybe it is...but WE DON"T KNOW!

A scissor lift got blown over...had a kid in the basket...he died...Thats what we know...

It is tragic, and frustrating, and someone may well be fired over it...if the investigation produces something that supports that action.

To go in assuming someone has to pay...thats intellectually lazy, and morally/ethically weak(and stop with the "thats just the way the world is").

Fortitude is not defined in this case by simply having the courage to fire your new coach or your AD...it is defined as methodically following the facts where they take you, and making an informed, moral/ethical decision devoid of influence from lawyers, the media, the intellectually lazy, and the emotionally challenged; then facing litigation as the separate matter that it is.

I have the utmost faith in the administration at Notre Dame to make a decision based on facts...and then apply punishment, if required, in a manner consistant with its standards...media and mental midgets be damned.

 

[dskoo65]

Correct

and also correct that Tressel practiced outdoors on wednesday and did not allow his camera guys to film due to the high winds (and, again, they have permanent filming structures at OSU)

yet the coach at ND was not at all cognizant of the two temporary scissor lifts sticking 40 feet in the air right next to the practice filed as the winds gusted at 50 mph......the truth is probably closer to him being negligent for not considering the danger, as a "reasonable person"...any of us i would say....would.

 

[irishff1014]

OK if any one has done any type of construction work you have probably been on one of these. I used to do fire sprinkler systems and we used these all the time. When it is in the air in side a building it sways. It is a common sense kinda deal. Just like you don't stand under a tree ina lighting storm.

 

[lookingdeadred]

what exactly is idiotic?

what exactly is idiotic?

Negligence that leads to a deadly accident is a big deal?

If this had happened at Florida, Michigan or USC, you and others would not be foaming at the mouth?

This whole premise is just idiotic....

 

[DCirishfan]

I think JS is going to get fired.

 

[Jerry]

OK if any one has done any type of construction work you have probably been on one of these. I used to do fire sprinkler systems and we used these all the time. When it is in the air in side a building it sways. It is a common sense kinda deal. Just like you don't stand under a tree ina lighting storm.

I was on a small one about 10 years ago indoors. We were cleaning a church ceiling that had a fire. Only up about 30 ft (which was fulling extended for that machine) but that thing was swaying all over the place. Can't imagine being up 50 ft in windy conditions.

 

[DCirishfan]

It is clearly a case of negligence given the info that I have seen. There is no rational explanation that this should have been allowed to occur. I do believe that there has to be accountability and heads must roll for there to be justice as much as it pains me to say.

 

[IrishBoy]

My gut feeling is that if Notre Dame is going to pay 20 to 40 million dollars to the Sullivan's family for their son's death then someone is going to get fired for this. I mean do you really think Jack Swarbrick and Brian Kelly are going to stay with their jobs after paying millions of dollars over this? I don't think so. I have heard many situations when an employee may be at fault or not, the company paid millions of dollars and that particular employee is no longer with the company regardless he/she is guilty or not. It's about liability. I think we will learn more after this football season. I don't see Notre Dame to take actions until the football season is over, because it would create distractions for the team if it does.

 

[Jerry]

To be honest if Kelly gets fired over this I hope it happens sooner rather than later. If it's found that he made the call for the kid to go up that day then there will be a media frenzy until he's let go.

 

[irishff1014]

I think 20 will be the most they get. But untill everything is released noone knows.

 

[DCirishfan]

My gut feeling is that if Notre Dame is going to pay 20 to 40 million dollars to the Sullivan's family for their son's death then someone is going to get fired for this. I mean do you really think Jack Swarbrick and Brian Kelly are going to stay with their jobs after paying millions of dollars over this? I don't think so. I have heard many situations when an employee may be at fault or not, the company paid millions of dollars and that particular employee is no longer with the company regardless he/she is guilty or not. It's about liability. I think we will learn more after this football season. I don't see Notre Dame to take actions until the football season is over, because it would create distractions for the team if it does.

You are 100% correct, JS gets canned for sure. Kelly 50/50

 

[TerryTate]

You are 100% correct, JS gets canned for sure. Kelly 50/50

Not happening. You're wrong.

 

[IrishBoy]

To be honest if Kelly gets fired over this I hope it happens sooner rather than later. If it's found that he made the call for the kid to go up that day then there will be a media frenzy until he's let go.

I agree. It has to be sooner than later. We want to see what's the best for the program. We can't afford to step back one year over this. We were doing well in the last 4 years in recruiting so we can't afford to suffer this year if we want to play well next year in preparation for the 2012 tough schedule.

 

[Irish Houstonian]

yes, the coach should have reasonably known it would not be safe...

But alleging this doesn't make it true. Is there any evidence showing what BK knew about scissor lifts? Is there any evidence showing that BK knew he was the only one who could cancel the film crew due to safety? Is there any evidence showing that it was unreasonable for BK to rely on the students themselves to not film in dangerous situations? After all, wouldn't Declan have known more about the propensities of the scissor lift than anyone else?

My whole point here is not that BK wasn't negligent -- perhaps he was. But nobody yet knows for sure. That's why they investigate.

And it seems odd that everyone points the finger at the head coach. He may be the one in charge of Declan's responsibilities, but maybe not. Why not the head of filming? Or the head of student work-study? Shouldn't the heavy equipment manager taken in all the scissor lifts, if they were so obviously going to be blown over? If Declan, say, only filmed defense, couldn't the defensive coordinator also have prohibited Declan from filming?

There are so many holes in the Kelly-Must-Be-Guilty theory that my fingers are getting tired typing about it.

 

[dskoo65]

But alleging this doesn't make it true. Is there any evidence showing what BK knew about scissor lifts? Is there any evidence showing that BK knew he was the only one who could cancel the film crew due to safety? Is there any evidence showing that it was unreasonable for BK to rely on the students themselves to not film in dangerous situations? .

**sigh**

again, a reasonable person doesnt need to know about scissor lifts to reasonably think it would be dangerous to have one 40 feet in the air in high winds. anyone who has seen them can see they tall and skinny without a very wide base. he can clearly see the lifts from the field.

and again, he knows they film when they practice outdoors. he decided it was safe to practice outdoors, thus he expected they would be filming unless he told them not to. thats where he screwed up. the problem is the coach makes the decision it is safe to practice outdoors, and that encompasses all phases of practice.....whether its fair to put it all on him....maybe, maybe not...but thats where the buck stops.

 

[irishff1014]

It was safe to practice outside. they would not cancel agame for that. How do you prepare for playing wind conditions you practice like in those conditions.

 

[DomerBoy]

It was safe to practice outside. they would not cancel agame for that. How do you prepare for playing wind conditions you practice like in those conditions.

BK's decision is considered a proximate cause and can be in violation of negligence.

Now proving that in court is another story and would solely rely on the State of Indiana's previous precedent that has been set.

 

[irishff1014]

at the very best it is a civil matter nothing illegal was done.

 

[phork]

You guys understand that unless Kelly or someone related to Kelly or the school forced the kid into the thing then all thats going to be ruled is that it was an accident and he shouldn't have gone up there.

If you have no proof of anyone saying "THOU SHALT CLIMB THAT LIFT AND TAPE THE PRACTICE", then good luck. The kid had a RIGHT TO REFUSE UNSAFE WORK.

Frankly this thread is going no where and should be locked. There is no point discussing a case where none of us here have any facts at all.

 

[TerryTate]

Done.