Investigation Into Declan Sullivan's Death

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5742081

Brian Kelly has made it clear that it was his decision to practice last Wednesday despite the weather warnings. However, we are going to have to wait until a lawsuit is filed or the results of the investigation are made public to know whos decision it was to send Declan into the scissor lift.

If it was Kelly's call handed down to their Video Coordinator, then there is no doubt in my mind that Kelly needs to step up and resign his position as Head Coach.

Someones head needs to roll over this act of negligence turned into a tragic event. Whether its Swarbrick or Kelly.

 

[NDOM]

Notre Dame investigation will look at workplace safety rules - ESPN

Brian Kelly has made it clear that it was his decision to practice last Wednesday despite the weather warnings. However, we are going to have to wait until a lawsuit is filed or the results of the investigation are made public to know whos decision it was to send Declan into the scissor lift.

If it was Kelly's call handed down to their Video Coordinator, then there is no doubt in my mind that Kelly needs to step up and resign his position as Head Coach.

Someones head needs to roll over this act of negligence turned into a tragic event. Whether its Swarbrick or Kelly.

This would be by FAR the biggest negative thing to happen to ND yet. If it WAS kellys call to send him up there then this is BAD for the program. The program sucks now but its gonna suck a lot worse if this is true. YIKES!

 

[TerryTate]

Notre Dame investigation will look at workplace safety rules - ESPN

Brian Kelly has made it clear that it was his decision to practice last Wednesday despite the weather warnings. However, we are going to have to wait until a lawsuit is filed or the results of the investigation are made public to know whos decision it was to send Declan into the scissor lift.

If it was Kelly's call handed down to their Video Coordinator, then there is no doubt in my mind that Kelly needs to step up and resign his position as Head Coach.

Someones head needs to roll over this act of negligence turned into a tragic event. Whether its Swarbrick or Kelly.

F off

 

[dre1919]

Just curious, but how is Swarbrick or Kelly resigning going to resolve anything? It's certainly not going to bring Declan back, and even if it was either man's decision...so? Decisions like this happen all the time in all walks of life / jobs / etc. 99% of the time, things are fine. The 1% of the time something tragic happens it's just that...a tragedy. But it doesn't necessarily mean some one is really "to blame". Just because there was bad weather doesn't entirely mean it wasn't safe...it could have just been a freak occurrence. If there is bad weather outside, should we keep students locked in doors for fear of their lives? It's a stretch to compare that to a student being up in a scissor lift during bad weather, but it's also a stretch to blame Kelly or Swarbrick and say they knew the risks of letting someone do this, ignored them, and now this kid has passed away. Pray for Declan and his family, but don't read into it with conspiracy theory logic.

 

[Ben E.]

The coach should quite because an accident happened that never occured before and there werent guidlines to direct the coach? get real please!

 

[k1ssme1m1r1sh]

Where is the sense of personal responsibility? Declan went up there after he said he was scared. We teach our kids everyday that it's ok to say no. He could have said no, or told someone to stuff it sideways. I am truely sorry that he died, but we are not the judge nor the jury here. Let the investigators do their jobs.

 

[Mr. McGibblets]

F off

Owned

 

[military_irish]

the best analogy i can think of, for what you are saying is.

If an employee at Wal Mart died in a horrific accident, that you would want the CEO of Wal Mart to step down.

That's basically what it comes down to, and makes no sense.

 

[Ben E.]

the best analogy i can think of, for what you are saying is.

If an employee at Wal Mart died in a horrific accident, that you would want the CEO of Wal Mart to step down.

That's basically what it comes down to, and makes no sense.

THANK YOU!!! people need to get oxygen in their brains!

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

the best analogy i can think of, for what you are saying is.

If an employee at Wal Mart died in a horrific accident, that you would want the CEO of Wal Mart to step down.

That's basically what it comes down to, and makes no sense.

False.

The CEO of Wal Mart would equate to Reverend Jenkins at Notre Dame. Jenkins obviously isn't responsible by any means.

If an employee at Wal Mart died in a horrific accident caused by negligence, the person held responsible would be the store manager who made the decision.

The store manager equates to Kelly's job as Head Coach.

Obviously, you dont have any experience as a manager of any sorts with a staff you are responsible for. You are unable to understand that with such a position of power you are responsible for what you ask of your staff to do.

 

[mgriff]

Yea it's not the CEO, it would be more like if a Wal-Mart employee died bringing the carts in the from the parking lot during the thunderstorm. Does the on shift manager, Kelly, or the head of cart retrieval, someone else, take the blame? It's all contingent upon Kelly's involvement in my estimation. Did he explicitly state that they had to use the towers, or he needed video from them? Short of that, I don't think he gave the issue much though, but he should have considered the risk when deciding to practice outside, yet, unfortunately, the video is probably not on his mind.

 

[TerryTate]

False.

The CEO of Wal Mart would equate to Reverend Jenkins at Notre Dame. Jenkins obviously isn't responsible by any means.

If an employee at Wal Mart died in a horrific accident caused by negligence, the person held responsible would be the store manager who made the decision.

The store manager equates to Kelly's job as Head Coach.

Obviously, you dont have any experience as a manager of any sorts with a staff you are responsible for. You are unable to understand that with such a position of power you are responsible for what you ask of your staff to do.

Bahahahaha

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

Where is the sense of personal responsibility? Declan went up there after he said he was scared. We teach our kids everyday that it's ok to say no. He could have said no, or told someone to stuff it sideways. I am truely sorry that he died, but we are not the judge nor the jury here. Let the investigators do their jobs.

Personal responsibility?

When you're an employee you are to do as you are told, and any reason not to do it better come with a valid explanation or be written up for insubordination. If you have a boss that knowingly puts you in bad situations, you would stop working for him if not report him to his superiors.

Was it Declan who went into the scissor lift? Yes.
Was it Delan who made the decision that led to him going into the scissor lift? No.

Personal responsibility being used as an excuse for death/serious injury when a person does something knowingly that has the potential to harm them seriously. Playing around with guns, drunk driving, unprotected sex, etc are decisions a person makes that they are responsible for the consequences.

Declan was not a random student taking it upon himself to videotape the practices and using a scissor lift without permission. This was his job. The responsibility falls directly on the shoulders of the person who made that call for him to do so despite the warning sign of bad weather.


Most of us on here are adults. What if this was your son/daughter who died doing this? Would you criticize the decision made by your son/daughter that were only doing their job? Or would you want an explanation as to why their boss put them in that situation to begin with?

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

Yea it's not the CEO, it would be more like if a Wal-Mart employee died bringing the carts in the from the parking lot during the thunderstorm. Does the on shift manager, Kelly, or the head of cart retrieval, someone else, take the blame? It's all contingent upon Kelly's involvement in my estimation. Did he explicitly state that they had to use the towers, or he needed video from them? Short of that, I don't think he gave the issue much though, but he should have considered the risk when deciding to practice outside, yet, unfortunately, the video is probably not on his mind.

This analogy is closer than the previous one. However there isn't a job title as "head of cart retrieval".

But if there was that middle man, in between the shift manager and the employee....

If the shift manager was on duty and passed down an order to the head of cart retrieval to send his employee into a parking lot in the midst of a thunderstorm to collect metal shopping carts, then the responsibility for the death falls on the shift manager.

If the shift manager wasn't present and the head of cart retrieval made that decision for his employee then he would be held responsible. Or better yet if the shift manager told the head of cart retrieval to tell his employee to remain inside, and the head of cart retrieval went against his order and sent his employee outside. Then he would be held responsible.

Thats typically the way it works.

The Video Coordinator listed for the football team is Tim Collins, who based upon his biography has 20 years of experience on this staff. If that was his decision which went against Kelly's, then he needs to be terminated immediately and sued by the Sullivan's.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

Bahahahaha

Immature. But its to be expected online.

When you grow up, get married, have kids, and get a job where you are responsible for a staff then you would understand.

 

[bigedefense]

Well, first of all, it would not be the store manager at Wal- Mart. There are at least 2 people between manager and cart pusher. Asst. manager in that department and the department manager. Also, we do not know if Declan was told specifically to go up the lift. He may have, and probably was told to film practice, but not where from. This is all speculation. You say that the was doing as he was told, but we don't know that he was told to go up the lift. If I am not mistaken he was a filmming major (or something to that aspect). He may have very well thought that he could go up and get better film than getting it from another place. We don't and won't know until the investigation is completed. My heart and prayers go out to Declan's family and I am sure he is in Heaven now shaking his head at all of this speculation. IMO, we all need to wait until the investigation is done before calling for anyone to be fired.

 

[nd1]

yes but at the same time if he was that scared and didn't want to do it, in the end of it it's his choice to do it. besides someone forcefully putting him on the lift and letting it up. it's a awful thing that happened but sueing or costing other people thier jobs isn't going to bring him back.

when it's your time to go then god is going to take you no matter what and if it isn't your time you won't go. there has been people that have survived some awful things in life because it wasn't time for them to go. god has plan for all of us and when he sees fit and that plan is carried out and he's ready for us then no matter what he going to take us.

 

[TerryTate]

Immature. But its to be expected online.

When you grow up, get married, have kids, and get a job where you are responsible for a staff then you would understand.

25 years old, have a staff in a fortune 500 company. Stop kidding yourself. You're no expert.

I find it comical that you think comparing a WalMart store manager to Coach Kelly. It's absurd that we are speculating on this right now. The investigation is under way. There will be due diligence on the part of the University and government organizations. Calling for his head on mere speculation is stupid and irrational. There will be blame assigned to the parties responsible. But you're baseless accusations do not help anyone.

Read this article and give me a book report.

Remember, celebrate Declan Sullivan; Notre Dame investigation will conclude soon enough - ESPN

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I am betting that BK said "we are having the practice outside because its suppsoed to be windy". Maybe that trickled down the chain of command, and in the nature of Declans job, that meant he was out on the lift.

I cannot imagine Brian Kelly being told that it's a liability to have him up there with winds like this, and he said "I don't care, put someone in the lift".

There has to be a middle man in the equation somewhere that is held accountable.

All BK did was hold the practice, I don't see how that decision holds him responsible for the film crew..etc.

Someone else made that call.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Or did not speak up, and say it's too dangerous.

 

[mgriff]

I didn't know we were going with realistic positions within Wal-Mart Would you prefer the front end manager analogy? What I was trying to convey was the chain of command, and that there were others directly over Declan. It wasn't solely Brian Kelly's decision. Ultimately, the chain gets to him, but it is all dependent upon his involvement in the decision to put Declan up in the tower.

 

[bigedefense]

This analogy is closer than the previous one. However there isn't a job title as "head of cart retrieval".

But if there was that middle man, in between the shift manager and the employee....

If the shift manager was on duty and passed down an order to the head of cart retrieval to send his employee into a parking lot in the midst of a thunderstorm to collect metal shopping carts, then the responsibility for the death falls on the shift manager.

If the shift manager wasn't present and the head of cart retrieval made that decision for his employee then he would be held responsible. Or better yet if the shift manager told the head of cart retrieval to tell his employee to remain inside, and the head of cart retrieval went against his order and sent his employee outside. Then he would be held responsible.

Thats typically the way it works.

The Video Coordinator listed for the football team is Tim Collins, who based upon his biography has 20 years of experience on this staff. If that was his decision which went against Kelly's, then he needs to be terminated immediately and sued by the Sullivan's.

You sir are pathetic! I have lost family members due to negligance. It was investigated and found who was responsible. I morned the loss of my family. I moruned hard. I, at times was angry. I was depressed. I, however, never wanted to benefit financally from it. I was contacted by attorney after attorney. They begged me to sue. Some even offered to write me a check just so they could start the proceedings. That's a big problem in this country now, people like you are always on the lookout for a way to get a quick buck. The person that was responsible in my case was dealt with legally. There is no one on God's beautiful Earth that feels worse than I, but he is in second. I have forgiven and spoke to this person. I do not know who you are, but I will be praying that you find your way in this world, because you sure don't have it figured out like you think you do!

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

25 years old, have a staff in a fortune 500 company. Stop kidding yourself. You're no expert.

I highly doubt that at 25. I was busting my chops to work my way up after transitioning from an intern. Maybe McDonalds hires puppies fresh out of college.

Im 46, and oversee a staff of 93 at McCormick. You can call my office and we can discuss this thread via phone if you so please.

I find it comical that you think comparing a WalMart store manager to Coach Kelly. It's absurd that we are speculating on this right now. The investigation is under way. There will be due diligence on the part of the University and government organizations. Calling for his head on mere speculation is stupid and irrational. There will be blame assigned to the parties responsible. But you're baseless accusations do not help anyone.

Read this article and give me a book report.

Remember, celebrate Declan Sullivan; Notre Dame investigation will conclude soon enough - ESPN

Baseless accounts? I've never said anything as being fact in this thread. Im going off of what has been presented to the public so far.

 

[TerryTate]

I highly doubt that at 25. I was busting my chops to work my way up after transitioning from an intern. Maybe McDonalds hires puppies fresh out of college.

Im 46, and oversee a staff of 93 at McCormick. You can call my office and we can discuss this thread via phone if you so please.



Baseless accounts? I've never said anything as being fact in this thread. Im going off of what has been presented to the public so far.

"accusations" not "accounts", the former doesn't require "facts."

Puppies tend to do well after going to Notre Dame and going through a top flight financial program at GE. Weird.

PS - your spices are bland.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

I didn't know we were going with realistic positions within Wal-Mart Would you prefer the front end manager analogy? What I was trying to convey was the chain of command, and that there were others directly over Declan. It wasn't solely Brian Kelly's decision. Ultimately, the chain gets to him, but it is all dependent upon his involvement in the decision to put Declan up in the tower.

The chain of command is important in any job you are working.

Who made the call? Thats the simple answer to who holds responsibility for what happened.

Trying to put blame on the people who pass down the orders, adds on blame to the guilt I am sure all of them are feeling.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

"accusations" not "accounts", the former doesn't require "facts."

Puppies tend to do well after going to Notre Dame and going through a top flight financial program at GE. Weird.

PS - your spices are bland.

Im sorry but obviously you didn't do to well when it came to Reading Comprehension during your grade school days. There are no "accusations" being made in any of the articles that have been posted. If you are looking for "accusations" check out Jason Whitlock's article on Fox Sports. The accounts of what happened that day have made been made public and referred to by the people who were present, specifically Swarbrick since the players have yet to speak on the issue. Kelly himself has said that it was his decision to practice that day despite 50+ MPH winds and a weather warning.


The fact you've tried our spices to give me feedback is a compliment. I appreciate it.

 

[I Dont Miss Charlie]

You sir are pathetic! I have lost family members due to negligance. It was investigated and found who was responsible. I morned the loss of my family. I moruned hard. I, at times was angry. I was depressed. I, however, never wanted to benefit financally from it. I was contacted by attorney after attorney. They begged me to sue. Some even offered to write me a check just so they could start the proceedings. That's a big problem in this country now, people like you are always on the lookout for a way to get a quick buck. The person that was responsible in my case was dealt with legally. There is no one on God's beautiful Earth that feels worse than I, but he is in second. I have forgiven and spoke to this person. I do not know who you are, but I will be praying that you find your way in this world, because you sure don't have it figured out like you think you do!

What I want is for the party(ies) responsible for what happened to Declan Sullivan own up publicly taking personal responsibility for the decision they made. I would like for them to own up after handing in their resignation, if not being terminated immediately upon the conclusion of the investigation. The big problem in this country is that suing someone is the only way for them to accept responsibility outside of a pre-written statement.


The last part is me strictly speaking as a parent and how I would react in that situation if something like that happened to my son or daughter. I dont think you could understand the severity of this issue unless you put yourself in the shoes of his parents right now. Unfortunately because the people involved are our 1st year head football coach as well as members of his staff, the reaction is different. On one hand you can put yourself in the shoes of Declan's parents losing their son due to a stupid decision made by his boss to practice that day. But on the other hand you are reacting as a fan of the Notre Dame football team and dont want to see anything negative being attributed to our head coach.

My condolences to you & your loved ones.

But to call me pathetic because I would've reacted differently is disrespectful and is far from who I am as a person.

 

[GreatGolson]

Ok, from a logical standpoint, kelly should say he made a mistake, make it very public that it could have been prevented and that his hope is a tragedy like this never happens again. Firing him accomplishes nothing, and it wont bring back a loved member of our ND family.

 

[GreatGolson]

Also, do you think the GUILT inside of Kelly right now is not ENORMOUS? Swarbrick talked 1 on 1 with him for 2 and half hours. We must also ask (and im sure we will see in the investigation) why didnt the video director speak up when told to send Declan up? Why didnt Declan himself say anything? should the video director be fired? Wasnt he in more DIRECT CONTACT with Sullivan?

 

[military_irish]

1st i thought we we're talking about the Notre Dame Football program not the University as a whole. So in that case yes Kelly is the CEO when it comes to the football team, no one is above him in that department. I've never seen Father Jenkins on the sideline with a headset on calling plays, or seen him at practice dictating how that goes either.

Secondly when it comes to chain of command I've never seen anyone get disciplined for saying no to a supervisor when they feel their life may be in danger. And yes i have worked in dangerous situations and I have said no to a superior. They only thing i ever got was a mean look and maybe talked about me behind my back. But when it came to my direct supervisor he said i did the right thing and not to worry about it.

No one person is at fault and no one should lose their jobs. That is ludacris to even think that. Kelly said let's practice outside, how that can be translated into him forcing Sullivan up in the air is beyond me.