growing pains or are we just doomed

[Rudy89]

seriously. I cant saty optimistic after losing for ****ing navy, we have tried everything new coahc new everything I dont think we can go back to a decent level I think Medicore is just where we will stay at this rate, i dunno someone sell me on being optimistic again please im beggind a more prominant poster to do that. Why should I ever beleive we will be worth a damn again?

 

[tko]

well, i think this year is full of growing pains. the bummer was the rash of injuries for this game. we were depleted big time and that impacted morale, but we still should've seen a better effort all around. this stings bad, but you have to keep at it and keep getting better. that's as optimistic as i can be right now.

 

[chyrspchuck]

can we just merge all the woe is me, the sky is fallling threads, it gets reeeedickulous after a loss.

 

[IrishandColts]

Andrew Hendrix please and thank you.

 

[CanadianIrish]

Andrew Hendrix please and thank you.

That is the accredited answer. Growing pains implies things are getting better. Crist is actually getting worse. Hendrix or Rees please.

 

[Rocket89]

Can we just give Navy some respect?

I know we as ND fans are usually the ones defending Navy and their credentials...but this is not like losing to Western Michigan or some other crap team in CFB.

We had two bad turnovers, didn't score at the goal line and lost by 18 points. It's ****ing growing pains people.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

I think it is both. There are growing pains/injuries, but the team showed NO fight. They completely **** the bed in the face of adversity.

Our defense was not prepared, they were dazed and confused the whole game. We should have done held better based on pure athleticism alone. Navy should have been blown off the ball by both of ours lines.

I have defended Dayne, but I am not so sure he keeps his job beyond this year. He seems to have hit a plateau in his development. His mistakes from week 1 have not been fixed. No touch, forces throws, gets confused...he just does not understand the offense, and has trouble reading defenses. If they play is covered by the defense he just gets lost, he can't improvise, its like hes a robot.

Obviously, it would be ignorant, and a mistake to write Kelly off because of this game, and his first season, but you have to wonder if he can make the adjustments in his system to fit his players. I think by year 3 Kelly will field a good team, but it may be a case of just getting his guys on the team.

This was a very very very dissapointing loss, kind of like Stanford. They were just flat with no fight, they looked like CW teams of the last 2 Novembers. I can take a loss when the team fights, and cares. This was just deflating, the team did not look they gave a ****. Maybe they wrote it off as a win? looking ahead 2 games to Utah? Who knows? But whatever it is, I hope this is the last time we see a effort like this again, otherwise I am going to start seriously doubting Brian Kelly.

 

[chyrspchuck]

Andrew Hendrix please and thank you.

terrible idea, why waste a year, let him and dayne compete next year in an open competition though.

 

[GreatGolson]

The only way TO stay optimistic is to say growing pains, i mean, i guess its better than 2007....

 

[IrishandColts]

terrible idea, why waste a year, let him and dayne compete next year in an open competition though.

Dayne wont have a chance in hell

 

[chyrspchuck]

Dayne wont have a chance in hell

i find this hard to believe, i think they will push each other, the scenario that BK is used to when it comes to QB's

 

[Irish Man3]

Why are we talking about Andrew Hendrix when he cant even beat out Rees or Montana. Your going strickly on the fact that we came in as a 4*. Thats a little ridiculous. If your going to put this loss on Dayne then thats also a little unfair.

 

[Junkhead]

Why are we talking about Andrew Hendrix when he cant even beat out Rees or Montana. Your going strickly on the fact that we came in as a 4*. Thats a little ridiculous. If your going to put this loss on Dayne then thats also a little unfair.

Considering Dayne was a 5*. He looked really bad today, but I don't think that automatically means Hendrix or anyone else is "the man". There were people saying bring on Dayne when Clausen struggled too.

 

[IrishandColts]

Why are we talking about Andrew Hendrix when he cant even beat out Rees or Montana. Your going strickly on the fact that we came in as a 4*. Thats a little ridiculous. If your going to put this loss on Dayne then thats also a little unfair.

He came in after Rees and Montana so of coarse he isn't going to play just like Luke Massa. I bet money Andrew gets the starting job next year. Kelly already praised him on how great he is on the scout team. The only thing he needs to do is learn the spread over the spring/summer. He never even had a shot to beat them out.

 

[TerryTate]

Hendrix and Massa are both redshirting. Rees is playing because he enrolled early. It has nothing to do with who is beating out people.

 

[Irish Man3]

I wasnt compairing the * status of Dayne and Hendrix. Everyone is skipping Tommy Rees who is currently the #2 behind Crist, not Hendrix. No1 has even seen Andrew Hendrix play yet so get off that bandwagon.

 

[NDOM]

Notre Dame lost to a team that should'nt even have a team in the first place. These are servicemen who NONE of the players on the Navy team were even recruited let alone do they have any "Star" ratings. Whats even worse is that they had more team speed than ND did. ND is snakebitten and will NEVER amount to anything better than mediocre again.

And whats even worse than the loss is that our 3rd stringers should beat this team. Its only gonna get worse next year and EVEN WORSE in 2012 when ND goes 3-9.

So to answer your question......ND is DOOMED.

 

[chyrspchuck]

He came in after Rees and Montana so of coarse he isn't going to play just like Luke Massa. I bet money Andrew gets the starting job next year. Kelly already praised him on how great he is on the scout team. The only thing he needs to do is learn the spread over the spring/summer. He never even had a shot to beat them out.

scout team and a real game, are very different scenarios. hell montana looked like a god in the blue gold game, no one wants him in there....

 

[WaveDomer]

Nothing is ever "doomed." However, there is probably something going on at Notre Dame that is not fixed with recruits or coaches alone. This is starting to feel like Detroit Lions territory. I am a Tulane graduate. There was once a time when Tulane was actually a good football team. They were in the SEC and were a winning team. Something institutional is wrong at Tulane. I'm not saying it's the same at ND, but I don't know. I can't imagine it is. ND has unbelievable money and support for the program. It's questionable if Tulane's Admin even wants a team or if they just want to be a Southern Ivy League school. But I don't know.

I was not a supporter of Kelly when they hired him, but I am now. I won't not back him now. I think he knows what he is facing and that it is going to take more than just recruits and schemes. It's like some kind of stink that you can't get rid of even after scrubbing and scrubbing. There is something under the surface here. The reality is that it gets worse before it gets better. This loss is the "worse" because even though you feel like you are getting clean, that stink is still there and will come back stronger than ever to try and stick around. It's all mental, but it's all consuming, it seems, at ND now. So you have to change the minds of an entire organization, not just one person. You need a real kung fu type, to kick that stink to the curb. I think Kelly has that kung fu, but only time will tell for sure.

 

[Honey Nut Irish]

Personally the mere thought of us running the spread offense for the next few years makes me want to puke. I miss the pro-style offense.

Why we scraped one perfectly good offensive system for the latest trend is beyond me. Our problems under Weis were mainly the D and the running game. So we brought in a head coach with a high powered passing offense thinking somehow things would be different because "he is a winner."

Guess what? Its still the same team. We still play soft, still rely on the pass, and still have no defense. I said last year we need a coach who can bring a physical running game and defense to complement our passing game.

I'm willing to give Kelly time to find the right guys. But I shudder thinking about what the state of our program will be if he doesn't work out.

 

[Riddickulous]

can we just merge all the woe is me, the sky is fallling threads, it gets reeeedickulous after a loss.

Hey! I take pride in my passion for the Irish.

Andrew Hendrix please and thank you.

Maybe next year. Kelly raves about his quick release and once said that Hendrix had the strongest arm he'd ever seen, but next year is the earliest he'll see the field. Give Crist a chance to prove himself in the offseason.

This kind of talk reminds me of 2008. Everybody was panicking on Clausen and couldn't wait for Crist. Weis opened it up in the offseason and Jimmy delivered, and with style.

It'll be Dayne Crist this season. Tommy Rees looked pretty good today, but it was in garbage time. It's way too late in the season to throw a new quarterback in there.

 

[tommyIRISH23]

Nothing is ever "doomed." However, there is probably something going on at Notre Dame that is not fixed with recruits or coaches alone. This is starting to feel like Detroit Lions territory. I am a Tulane graduate. There was once a time when Tulane was actually a good football team. They were in the SEC and were a winning team. Something institutional is wrong at Tulane. I'm not saying it's the same at ND, but I don't know. I can't imagine it is. ND has unbelievable money and support for the program. It's questionable if Tulane's Admin even wants a team or if they just want to be a Southern Ivy League school. But I don't know.

I was not a supporter of Kelly when they hired him, but I am now. I won't not back him now. I think he knows what he is facing and that it is going to take more than just recruits and schemes. It's like some kind of stink that you can't get rid of even after scrubbing and scrubbing. There is something under the surface here. The reality is that it gets worse before it gets better. This loss is the "worse" because even though you feel like you are getting clean, that stink is still there and will come back stronger than ever to try and stick around. It's all mental, but it's all consuming, it seems, at ND now. So you have to change the minds of an entire organization, not just one person. You need a real kung fu type, to kick that stink to the curb. I think Kelly has that kung fu, but only time will tell for sure.

I totally agree. I dont think there is anything wrong with the admin/institution AT THIS POINT. But I think, say, from 1994-2006, was an ideological/educational/christian philosophy that adamantly did NOT want to become a football factory. I think that the new administration is building a moderate compromise, and the concessions that were made with the hiring of BK offer some proof. I think, though, the "stink" has to be removed, and it will take time. Does ND have the time? It's been so long since this team was feared, and is a team of tradition/legend...but no fear. The ND program is not dead, but is in trouble. A big win against either SC/Utah is more then needed, otherwise we will see a exodus of recruits. Which would set the program back.

Notre Dame needs to finish the season strong, and after this loss I am concerned. The last 2 seasons, and their second have melt downs spelled the end to hopes, and coaches. It will be easy to fall into that slump again. I don't know what kelly can do? But Notre Dame absolutely does NOT have a culture of winning, they have become a program of underachieving, and losing all the way from the top down to the water boy. The comparison to the Detroit Lions is on point, ND may be doomed if we do not see a "5 minute plan" to change the attitude, and culture. I don't know if they have 2 more years, let alone 5...

 

[Old Man Mike]

My unwanted opinions: 1). the "patterns" of the offense generally looked pretty good to me today. This means to me that if the players will just execute their parts, the Kelly Spread WILL have its schematic advantage, and the O will march down the field [as it did even with erratic execution today anyway]. As an example, I thought that the release valve short receivers were almost continually open for 8-to-10 yard gains, even without our studs being in there; ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------2). defensively we were exposed for what we are this year: a good bunch of athletes with generally mediocre speed. We have been fortunate to have played teams with similar speed on offense so as to be allowed for our power and slobberknockers to show up and deliver on time. Although i don't agree with Herbstreit's exaggerated remark [and he doesn't either], we saw a bit of what he meant when he made it. We need the speed: Kelly's trying to recruit it. And when you re-watch the game you'll probably notice only around three defensive plays which you might call dominant offense-buster plays. [I'm thinking of two by Te'o and one by Johnson]. We need that combination of force and violence [I.E. Speed-to-the-Spot] to succeed. We won't get that this year. THAT is a matter of what we're calling "growing pains". ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------3). the part of this that disturbs me most is the non-statistical problem of "Indecision". Our players seem to be thinking too much. [This is not just a statement about Dayne, but generally]. The Team as a whole needs to "Channel their Inner Animal" [they remind me of some mediocre basketball teams I played on]. This too could be "growing pains", and I hope to the Lord that BK is not over-coaching them. I looked all game for the Big Animalistic Rising Up and smashing something --- hard to find. One couldn't imagine seeing anyone with a strut in his step out there. Who ever seemed reveling in a Rip-&-Rock'em situation??------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I see offense as waiting on consistent execution [optimistically, whether this year or next]; I see defense as waiting on speed [maybe too young yet next year but coming]; and as to Animal Rock and Roll --- I don't know. Hopefully Kelly/ND RKguys can also be Destroyers.

 

[GreatGolson]

Ahhhhh and Old Man Mike finally steps up to the plate and hits a home run. I knew you'd be the one to help sort this out/make people come to their senses as only you and your lip flapingly long posts can.

 

[Old Man Mike]

To the consistently-ADD'd Great Dayne: Babe Ruth and the Rock ARE my avatar, afterall. [I reply with all humility].

 

[NDFANnSouthWest]

He came in after Rees and Montana so of coarse he isn't going to play just like Luke Massa. I bet money Andrew gets the starting job next year. Kelly already praised him on how great he is on the scout team. The only thing he needs to do is learn the spread over the spring/summer. He never even had a shot to beat them out.

I agree with this a 100%...Hendrix is the real deal. He will challenge Crist next year...and will be IMO the #2 guy....getting some reps.

 

[Riddickulous]

I agree with this a 100%...Hendrix is the real deal. He will challenge Crist next week...and will be IMO the #2 guy....getting some reps.

Edit: My reading comprehension is ****e today.

And I agree. Hendrix will push Crist in the offseason. Whether he'll legitimately push Crist or if he will be used as Dayne's motivation to improve is up for grabs.

 

[Rudy89]

I read something similiar o this after the MSU game something tell me somethign that will make me think this isnt true.

We will have an losing-ok season this year if we go to a bowl game we will more than liekly lose a veyr crappy bowl game. Kelly will have his run then get fired becasue we cant espace mediocrity. We will jsut get another coahc, then another, then another, then another all of them having similiar uneventful runs. We might get lucky and every 7 years or so make a BCS bowl game where will get the snot beat out of us by an SEC or Big Ten team. We will jsut be middle of the road or irrelevant forever. If anyone here cna make me feel otherwise please do I'm open for it but I think thats what will happen this is just like CW we are treading water. I know not to expect a National championship this year but i couldve at least expected to put up a fight against navy

 

[phork]

Let me reiterate what a lot of people know. 5* doesn't mean jack.
I don't know if the wind was an issue today, but some of those throws by Crist were lame ducks. He wasn't obviously the only issue, but a big reason why it was as bad as it was. We knew the defense was going to be sketchy at best but short fields and 3 and outs against Navy is not a recipe for success.

At this point our odds of coming out of 2012 with a winning record aren't very good. I always said that this year would be a wash regardless of record and I wasn't concerned with what happened. But today showed me something that actually has my support of Kelly wavering.

I supported Kelly's hire from the second Weis was canned. He was the logical fit when we knew already that no one else wanted to come to ND. I'm still in shock at what transpired today. This wasn't Oregon or even Oklahoma, this is Navy... I really don't care what they run or how they do it. The triple option is a gimmick, ask Paul Johnson how its working out playing with the big boys now. Superior defense kills the play and ND is so far from this right now I really don't know what to say. As for competing in the BCS.. Forget about it.

I've always said what I measure a coach on is being competitive in games. Being absolutely demolished by Navy is an embarrassment, period. This offense should be showing signs of life by this point. I guess I was just sucked in with the 3 Ws in a row against really bad teams. Now hear me straight. I am not upset that ND lost this game. I am pissed off about how it was done.

PS: I know Floyd and Rudolph and Riddick were out, but it wasn't even close. And they don't play defense.

 

[NDOM]

I read something similiar o this after the MSU game something tell me somethign that will make me think this isnt true.

We will have an losing-ok season this year if we go to a bowl game we will more than liekly lose a veyr crappy bowl game. Kelly will have his run then get fired becasue we cant espace mediocrity. We will jsut get another coahc, then another, then another, then another all of them having similiar uneventful runs. We might get lucky and every 7 years or so make a BCS bowl game where will get the snot beat out of us by an SEC or Big Ten team. We will jsut be middle of the road or irrelevant forever. If anyone here cna make me feel otherwise please do I'm open for it but I think thats what will happen this is just like CW we are treading water. I know not to expect a National championship this year but i couldve at least expected to put up a fight against navy

This is why you need to become a fan of another team like me. GO DUCKS.

ND football is a vicious cycle. 3-9, 5-7, 6-6, 6-6, 7-5, 8-4, 9-3, 10-2, 5-7, 3-9, 6-6, 5-7.
Thats what its gonna be. ND will be LUCKY to win 3 games in 2012. Great idea to add Oklahoma and Miami for 2012. Maybe they should drop Navy and add Alabama......Oh wait, Navy beats ND every year. Lets drop Purdue and add Alabama instead so they can get another loss. JOKE!