Is Dayne Crist the Problem?

military_irish

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Believe me buddy, other coaches laughed at my military style coaching. And coddling is not the opposite of yelling just to yell out of frustration. Coaches are teachers first. And there is a difference between yelling while teaching and yelling while calling the athlete a punk.

Now, I have watched replays on a couple of games that I recorded, and noticed on several blitzes that ALL the receivers had their backs turned to the QB, and there was nothing Dayne could do. So should the coach yell at him because coach is frustrated, or should coach ask the pressbox what the hell is going on? Should the coach, maybe, heaven forbid, change the snap count?

And KPENN, it's "you're" not "your."

(Just a discussion folks. In the "real world" nobody I know has even brought up the topic of coaches yelling...)

To Each His Own.

Just as their are different offenses and different defense. Their are different coaching styles, their is not a better or a worse one. All i care about is the results on the field. If wins come and the players respect him. And elite recruits are willing to come, that's all i care about.

Go Irish!!!
 

PapaIrish37

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As far as BK's tongue lashings, a major part of the equation has to be how often does he praise Dayne (or any of the other kids) in front of the team?

It is a balance. BK sets a high bar and demands excellence. He yells more than I probably would but again we don't see practice, team meetings, etc. Dayne was the game day captain for the offense so he must get some atta boys as well.

He seems to be a very coachable kid. I think he gets BK.

Demeaning Dayne's whole body of work on a forum as opposed to yelling at him after a missed read is not the same. Sorry, that argument doesn't hold water for me.
 

GoIrish41

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After the Purdue game I said Dayne's accuracy was a serious problem and people criticized me for a variety of things and I simply let it go. Now, six weeks later, it's time to face facts. Dayne couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. His TD throw to Floyd was brutally under thrown, he missed numerous wide open receivers, and even the announcers were commenting on this. The problem with this team isn't the receivers, the line or even the defence - it's the quarterback. We haven't had a quarterback play this poorly since Quinn's first season, and maybe earlier.

Look back at the losses and think what would have happened with one or two more accurate throws. We're 5-1 going into this week if Dayne is an accurate QB. How many easy throws has he missed?

People need to stop making silly jokes with his name and realize his accuracy is a serious problem and it's holding this team back in a big way. The big concern is that we haven't addressed this issue at all. We have no QBs coming in this year and the recruits from last year are largely caretakers.

So come 2012, we have Andrew Hendrix leading the team against a crucible of a schedule and Dayne tossing balls around with no accuracy until then. Really hard to think things are looking up right now ...

That is the most insanely idiotic post I have ever seen. And we are all a little dumber for having read it.

Last year, we had probably the most accurate passer in ND history. That Dane isn't at that point yet in his first year starting is no reason to bash him ... especially after a 3 TD performance in a blowout.

You, sir, have issues.
 

NeuteredDoomer

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To Each His Own.

Just as their are different offenses and different defense. Their are different coaching styles, their is not a better or a worse one. All i care about is the results on the field. If wins come and the players respect him. And elite recruits are willing to come, that's all i care about.

Go Irish!!!

You nailed it. And you know I agree with you about 99.9% of the time. But I really am just having a discussion whilst I wait for my ride to take me to a church cookout. lol.

And it is a minor point in our fandom nitpicking. If this thread is not closed or deleted (I wouldn't mind) when I get back, I will expound, but probably in P.M. to you my good friend.
 

Irishpinoy

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Crist just needs more experience. He did fine today. Could have been better but not bad for a 1st yr QB. He'll be a stud man soon.
 

NeuteredDoomer

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As far as BK's tongue lashings, a major part of the equation has to be how often does he praise Dayne (or any of the other kids) in front of the team?

It is a balance. BK sets a high bar and demands excellence. He yells more than I probably would but again we don't see practice, team meetings, etc. Dayne was the game day captain for the offense so he must get some atta boys as well.

He seems to be a very coachable kid. I think he gets BK.

Demeaning Dayne's whole body of work on a forum as opposed to yelling at him after a missed read is not the same. Sorry, that argument doesn't hold water for me.

I agree with you sir, but there are some examples in the back of my head when I take certain, more or less, kinda sorta, stances.

I love Crist, and think Kelly and staff are the best since the Holtz years.

And to quote militaryirish: "All i care about is the results on the field. If wins come and the players respect him. And elite recruits are willing to come, that's all i care about."
 

military_irish

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You nailed it. And you know I agree with you about 99.9% of the time. But I really am just having a discussion whilst I wait for my ride to take me to a church cookout. lol.

And it is a minor point in our fandom nitpicking. If this thread is not closed or deleted (I wouldn't mind) when I get back, I will expound, but probably in P.M. to you my good friend.

I agree, it's always good to have a very opinionated discussion.

Have fun at the church cookout, I already had my dinner. Fajitas and refried beans and now time to have a few drinks
 

IrishJayhawk

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I agree, it's always good to have a very opinionated discussion.

Have fun at the church cookout, I already had my dinner. Fajitas and refried beans and now time to have a few drinks

I think that most of us can agree on one thing...

The first post in this thread was pretty stupid.


:)
 

Irish To The Core

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We can agree the first post is moronic. I would go further, it is from some fu@king Michigan fan trolling here and being that the skunkbears were beaten today, he needed some other crap to p!$$ off Notre Dame fans.

As far as the secondary thread goes, Kelly yells a bit. Kelly expects Crist to learn from the yelling and man up like a leader does. Crist, in my estimation, is doing just that. He is getting it. He will be so fricking effective in a short while that idiot trollers will find no way to pick on him except to say that he is overrated and shouldn't be the Heisman front-runner.
 

GoldenChild

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No, it is time to admit that you have a serious problem forming a rational thought. 18 of 28, 255 yds and 3 td's, yea that's a problem. Also a guy that has completed nearly 60% of his passes, thrown for over 1800 yards and 14 scores, not to mention a few running td's, through the first 7 games of his college career, all while learning a system he has never played before. The real problem is this site allowing posts like that one.

DAAAAAAYUUM!

But seriously Dayne's been doin good, he hasn't been mind blowingly great but was anyone expecting him to pull out Jimmy Clausen stats in his first season as a starting QB?
 

Old Man Mike

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If our quarterback was a fictional character rather than a real person, he would be read as the little girl with a little curl right in the middle of her forehead; when she was good she was very very good but when she was bad she was horrid. Or Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde if you have gender issues. But we're not dealing with a fictional character [nor one in Coach Kelly] so simplistic evaluations do them no service. Let me take the "easy" one first----------------------------------------------------Brian Kelly. He yells. He wins. His players typically love him. Manti has told us that he has never yelled at him without then telling him what he did wrong in a teaching mode. We can choose to believe that or not, but that is what Manti said. [I chose Manti to quote rather than the similar ones from Crist himself because people might doubt Crist's frankness since he takes most of the flak]. I'm going to assume that yelling is pretty standard practice on the practice field---this therefore is not unusual behavior and hardly shocks the players when it happens---you could see Massa and Hendrix giggling about some of it in the second half [admittedly behind coach's back]. The "technique" has worked for Kelly apparently on both the practical and psychological levels, and he makes it right by going over and congratulating the guys when they "do good".-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Now the tougher one:Crist. Because he can be Jekyll or Hyde at this stage of his career, people are going to split [not spit] on him. He's great/he's terrible. Actually he's neither one. He's a young talent of tremendous promise who is carrying a huge burden of learning coupled with inexperience. And he has a coach who knows it, and says EVERYTIME to the media that they're holding back a lot of the offense until Dayne gets more comfortable with it. On some things Dayne's there. On some things he is very confused. [by the way, Dayne cannot possibly be the only guy on NDs offense who is occasionally confused--we should not be so sure that every failure is his fault]. That's what we're seeing. I wonder how many other QBs in his situation would be any different. Each of us has a choice [which,by the way, will disturb the rest of the Universe's path not one Planck length---except others on the board who choose to get their testosterone up and start hurling epithets]: we can see Crist as an arrested development who will never be good enough for us, or we can see him as teaming with Kelly on an upward path of evolution to being a great ND leader. I'm trusting Crist to get there. I'm trusting Kelly even more. He's climbed that mountain successfully many times.
 

Irish Insanity

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I used to blame Christ too. Then watching more, and more i've come to realize that 50% or more of his incompletions come from miscommunication with the recievers. And thats not usually his fault. The major thing I think he needs to work on is his touch. He seems he needs to force the throw in there to make a play, when often a touch pass over the defense would yield better results. For example, his gross inability to throw a consistant, good, throw to the corner on a fade route. But i will definitely take his occasional miscalculated throw to his often nice pass. We do currentlly have an inconsistant offense, but nothing a little time in the system won't fix.
 

CanadianIrish

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We can agree the first post is moronic. I would go further, it is from some fu@king Michigan fan trolling here and being that the skunkbears were beaten today, he needed some other crap to p!$$ off Notre Dame fans.

As far as the secondary thread goes, Kelly yells a bit. Kelly expects Crist to learn from the yelling and man up like a leader does. Crist, in my estimation, is doing just that. He is getting it. He will be so fricking effective in a short while that idiot trollers will find no way to pick on him except to say that he is overrated and shouldn't be the Heisman front-runner.

This is the kind of nonsense that makes this forum scary. Unless you are a Pollyanna believe in ND no matter what you are a troll. Dayne threw for 250+ today - awesome. He also missed several throws I could have made (the roll out miss to Floyd was really bad, the should have been pass interference tofloyd wouldn't have mattered if the pass wasn't far too high to a wide open receiver etc). And let's not forget this was a really bad team. If Dayne isn't the weak link, what is?
 
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jason_h537

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This is the kind of nonsense that makes this forum scary. Unless you are a Pollyanna believe in ND no matter what you are a troll. Dayne threw for 250+ today - awesome. He also missed several throws I could have made (the roll of miss to Floyd was really bad, the should have been pass interference tofloyd wouldn't have mattered if the pass wasn't far too high to a wide open receiver etc). And let's rennet this was a really bad team. If Dayne isn't the weak link, what is?

Again PENALTIES AND TURNOVERS
 

KPENN

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This is the kind of nonsense that makes this forum scary. Unless you are a Pollyanna believe in ND no matter what you are a troll. Dayne threw for 250+ today - awesome. He also missed several throws I could have made (the roll out miss to Floyd was really bad, the should have been pass interference tofloyd wouldn't have mattered if the pass wasn't far too high to a wide open receiver etc). And let's not forget this was a really bad team. If Dayne isn't the weak link, what is?

Lol. You should just stop
 

CanadianIrish

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Again PENALTIES AND TURNOVERS

Penalties did not make Dayne miss te rollout to Floyd, and they didn't make him throw high and wide to Floyd in the end zone.

Do people really think the problem is penalties and everything else is fine? Kelly had a 500 yards per game offense at Cinci and is doing way worse here. That's all because of penalties and has nothing to do with a qb who repeatedly mosses wide open receivers? Come back to reality people.
 

jason_h537

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Penalties did not make Dayne miss te rollout to Floyd, and they didn't make him throw high and wide to Floyd in the end zone.

Do people really think the problem is penalties and everything else is fine? Kelly had a 500 yards per game offense at Cinci and is doing way worse here. That's all because of penalties and has nothing to do with a qb who repeatedly mosses wide open receivers? Come back to reality people.

No, much of that was caused by the lack of protection and Crist's streaky nature.

Penalties helped extend 2 WMU scoring drives

Penalties allowed Pitt back into the game

Turnovers aare the reason we lost to both Michigan schools

Turnovers allowed Purdue back in the game

Penalties are the reason we couldn't put away BC

People keep wanting to start threads about poor defense and bad players but dont see the obvious problem which is turnovers and penalties
 

PapaIrish37

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I agree with you sir, but there are some examples in the back of my head when I take certain, more or less, kinda sorta, stances.

I love Crist, and think Kelly and staff are the best since the Holtz years.

And to quote militaryirish: "All i care about is the results on the field. If wins come and the players respect him. And elite recruits are willing to come, that's all i care about."

I think (hope) the vast majority of us agree completely with MI's statement. Hope the church cookout was fun and eveyone got there and back safely.
 

no.1IrishFan

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Penalties did not make Dayne miss te rollout to Floyd, and they didn't make him throw high and wide to Floyd in the end zone.

Do people really think the problem is penalties and everything else is fine? Kelly had a 500 yards per game offense at Cinci and is doing way worse here. That's all because of penalties and has nothing to do with a qb who repeatedly mosses wide open receivers? Come back to reality people.

I was going to try and give you several legitimate reasons why you are WAY off on this one.
I then realized that there is no sense in trying to reason with someone as ignorant as you are.
 

PADOMERNUT

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Penalties did not make Dayne miss te rollout to Floyd, and they didn't make him throw high and wide to Floyd in the end zone.

Do people really think the problem is penalties and everything else is fine? Kelly had a 500 yards per game offense at Cinci and is doing way worse here. That's all because of penalties and has nothing to do with a qb who repeatedly mosses wide open receivers? Come back to reality people.

He has played 7 college football games!!!!! What the hell do you want? This isn't even an argument, I suggest closing this thread.
 

PapaIrish37

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If our quarterback was a fictional character rather than a real person, he would be read as the little girl with a little curl right in the middle of her forehead; when she was good she was very very good but when she was bad she was horrid. Or Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde if you have gender issues. But we're not dealing with a fictional character [nor one in Coach Kelly] so simplistic evaluations do them no service. ....Each of us has a choice [which,by the way, will disturb the rest of the Universe's path not one Planck length---except others on the board who choose to get their testosterone up and start hurling epithets]: we can see Crist as an arrested development who will never be good enough for us, or we can see him as teaming with Kelly on an upward path of evolution to being a great ND leader. I'm trusting Crist to get there. I'm trusting Kelly even more. He's climbed that mountain successfully many times.

OMM - sage advice and observations as usual.
 
B

Bogtrotter07

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It is Time to Admit Dayne is a Serious Problem

That's like saying " It is Time to Admit the Spread offense is a Serious Problem."
Bo, you are right on as usual. Everyone that is bitchin' should try stepping into the shoes, or remember '07.
 
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NeuteredDoomer

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I think (hope) the vast majority of us agree completely with MI's statement. Hope the church cookout was fun and eveyone got there and back safely.

Had me 2 delicious dogs, met some folks and came home. I was invited to visit with folk from a non-Catholic church. For some reason, my neighbor has been trying to recruit me to his church for a couple of years now. Since there were only two lovelies there, and they appeared otherwise...taken...I decided to come back and watch the end of the OSU-Wisc game.

Anyway, it would be hypocritical of me not to admit I agree with some of Canadian's points. I too have..um...suggested that the ND QB position is the weak link on an otherwise helatious and helatiously coached team. We can nitpick down to the shoelaces they wear, but that's just us being fans.

I firmly believe Crist is well on his way to being one hell of a quarterback, but it's fun to nitpick as fans and try to analyze what ails us.

That's all.
 

IrishinSyria

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Penalties did not make Dayne miss te rollout to Floyd, and they didn't make him throw high and wide to Floyd in the end zone.

Do people really think the problem is penalties and everything else is fine? Kelly had a 500 yards per game offense at Cinci and is doing way worse here. That's all because of penalties and has nothing to do with a qb who repeatedly mosses wide open receivers? Come back to reality people.

First of all, if you were wondering why so many people have been hostile, take a walk to the nearest mirror. You're right about one thing: Crist's accuracy is important to this offense and until it gets better we won't be running at 100%. I don't think anyone would disagree with you if you had made that point. In fact, it would have been so mundane and obvious that we would have questioned the need to start a thread about it.

HOWEVER, you did not limit yourself to defensible observations. You also gave this title a name straight out Alcoholics Anonymous (admitting you have a problem is the first step) and proceeded to attack a highly skilled student athlete who has been a great leader for this team and who has nowhere to go but up.

Crist is learning a new offense. It involves new reads, new footwork, new playfakes, etc... He's coming off of a bad knee injury. And he's doing all of this in his first season as a starter on a college football field. In a lot of ways, he's a freshman in a junior's body. And, he's playing with 1 WR who is a freshman and 1 who is a sophmore and played RB growing up. His best safety blanket (Rudolph) has been hurt all year. He was thrown into the deep end, and we're watching him learn how to swim. While it might be reasonable to be disappointed with the way the offense has developed (I know I expected more,) you are way out of line in dismissing Crist as a failure.
 

IrishLax

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Who the hell is giving this guy positive reps?

Anyone who is dumb enough to make a blanket claim like that 7 games into someones career in a brand new scheme where they have shown improvement every game clearly deserves red not green.
 

Senoj13

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Lets put the performance into perspective. He took too many sacks. He made too many bad throws. He threw for 200 plus yards, but 80 of it was on one play. He threw for 3 TDs. Floyd made the most of a bad throw on the first TD and the 2nd TD was more of a handoff than a pass to Floyd. If we are being objective here, there is more bad than good with the performance today.
 
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