ND one of Four offered in Big 10 expansion

[alaskandomer]

the fact that you are using the overall US NEWs report of a gauge of academic standing is comical in itself, but ill humor you...

according to the US News:

northwestern: #12
notre dame: #20
michigan: #27
wisconsin: #38
illinois: #39

that looks "close" to me...

as i said, one must look discipline by discipline to see how ND compares to some of these big ten schools. please do so (because you have not) and then report back. thanks.

small correction- Wisconsin and illinois are tied for 39th. By your definition of close, ND is closer in rank to Cornell and Brown than to Michigan, and closer to Yale, Penn, Columbia, and Dartmouth than to Illinois and Wisconsin (And as close to Harvard and Princeton). it would be ridiculous to suggest we join the Ivy League, but in terms of academics and size, it's a better fit than the Big 10. I do acknowledge your point that individual Big 10 schools may be superior in some disciplines. Clearly MSU has a better Ag department than we do.

 

[rocket31]

sorry for more random thoughts if that bothers anyone...

but what does texas do if this comes to fruition?

would they stay in the decimated big 12? go to the sec?....

...OR go independent?!

we could have a notre dame/texas nbc network....

 

[FrankMA]

A good commentary as to why ND will shoot down the Big 10 again- At least for now.
Notre Dame and The Big Ten: Some Ideas Die Hard | Bleacher Report

 

[justinpham]

Notre Dame Football - Report: Big Ten Makes ND An Offer

Here's a link to the story on ISD. Happy Reading.

 

[Legacy]

Pass on 'em

 

[Praytorian]

Why change?
We will get left out of bowls? Did we get left out of the BCS when the big 6 confences came to fruition? What makes you think they will leave us out now? Now just like then ND is a big name and we wont get left out (heck thats why they want ND so bad).
More money? Sell off your history for more money, I'd prefer to keep mine. ND's doing just fine financial wise (I'd say) What are they the #2 this year in sporting entities?
More players? Were still getting top 20 if not top 10 recruiting classes? You want to drop the GPA next, so we can get people who don't want to study? Lets make the kids work for their education, not just pick up 3 and outers.
I do not see the need to pick up a conference. Not the money, not the players, and not getting left out of the NC runs.
If we play hard, and win ND can continue on its own course. Next thing ya know you will want it to stop being a religious institution.

Fight on ND, just say no to conformity.
Pray

 

[irishmarine]

We are too rich in history and tradition to succumbbto the pressures of this. I hope the people who make these decisions remember our history and how nobody wanted the Irish a hundre years ago and how whn we were struggling everyone turned their backs on us. Now that webare worth more than some conferences they want us. For the sake of our history and pride don't do it.

 

[mick2]

the only incentive to join would be more money.

and the only way we would join is if the big east was destroyed leaving our other athletic teams needing a place to play.

We dont need the money. and its not a join now or die scenario.

if all hell broke loose and we had to join a conference. we could wait til the dust settled and have our choice of which conference we wanted to join. its not like we'll be left out in the cold.

But i do not see that scenario happening. if it did all the conferences would be lining up to make offers and we could pick the best one.

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

I'm sure if ND declined, the Big10 would move on other Big East schools to offset what ND would of brought. So if this article is correct, ND would control whether or not the B.E. stays somewhat intact. I'm kind of torn myself, on one hand I'd like to have ND in the Big10 to help with the BTN (living in the south and catching B10 games isn't always easy), and of course on the other hand there's; "To hell with Notre Dame".

 

[kmoose]

the only incentive to join would be more money.

I really don't think so. As was pointed out, earlier in this thread, ND is one of the most valuable "brands" in college sports. ND is a "have", in the world of "haves vs. have-nots". It's just my opinion, but I think that the only way that ND will join a conference in football is if forces collide that leave the Irish on the outside looking in, in regards to the National Championship picture. Tradition is only a positive if you can maintain it. Look at Princeton: they have incredible tradition in college football, just not in the last 100 years. If ND feels like they will be denied "fair" access to the National Championship without joining a conference, then tradition would demand that they do just that.

 

[alaskandomer]

We are too rich in history and tradition to succumbbto the pressures of this. I hope the people who make these decisions remember our history and how nobody wanted the Irish a hundre years ago and how whn we were struggling everyone turned their backs on us. Now that webare worth more than some conferences they want us. For the sake of our history and pride don't do it.

Amen!

 

[Irish4Life09]

We are too rich in history and tradition to succumbbto the pressures of this. I hope the people who make these decisions remember our history and how nobody wanted the Irish a hundre years ago and how whn we were struggling everyone turned their backs on us. Now that webare worth more than some conferences they want us. For the sake of our history and pride don't do it.

how in the world does joining a conference hurt our history?
The truth is it doesn't...nothing can hurt our history.No other program can even touch our history.
Why not just join a conference now when we have options and we have leverage....rather than being forced into a conference in the near future?

Right now there is really no reason not to join a conference. I know we dont need the money,but we would make a ton more per year. We dont need to keep the current scheduling of teams the way we have it. Why would anyone be enthusiastic playing Tulsa, Utah, and Western Michigan? When we can play great teams like Ohio St. and Penn St. on a consistent basis,and still keep our major rivals like USC and Navy.
It also gives us a chance to win a conference championship every year,which in of itself isn't much, but it would be a cool thing to say.
There is really nothing great about being an independent like there used to be.It is not more prestigious, it just makes people hate us more.Why should be try and be like Navy and Army?

The landscape of college football is changing fast.We can take a stand and be at the forefront of the big new change,and drastically alter college football.We need to make a change.

 

[alaskandomer]

I'm sure if ND declined, the Big10 would move on other Big East schools to offset what ND would of brought. So if this article is correct, ND would control whether or not the B.E. stays somewhat intact. I'm kind of torn myself, on one hand I'd like to have ND in the Big10 to help with the BTN (living in the south and catching B10 games isn't always easy), and of course on the other hand there's; "To hell with Notre Dame".

Michigan's opposition is a primary reason that ND hasn't been a member of the Big 10 for generations. Back at you- To hell with Michigan and the Big 10!

 

[]\/[GoBlue]

Michigan's opposition is a primary reason that ND hasn't been a member of the Big 10 for generations. Back at you- To hell with Michigan and the Big 10!

Obviously I realize that, since I put the article in my post.

 

[Irish4Life09]

Michigan's opposition is a primary reason that ND hasn't been a member of the Big 10 for generations. Back at you- To hell with Michigan and the Big 10!

No,the primary reason we're not in the Big10 is because we've turned them down about 50 times.I'm sure if ND wanted to join in the past they would have...especially if they could stick it to Michigan.They had nothing to do with it.

 

[mick2]

I really don't think so. As was pointed out, earlier in this thread, ND is one of the most valuable "brands" in college sports. ND is a "have", in the world of "haves vs. have-nots". It's just my opinion, but I think that the only way that ND will join a conference in football is if forces collide that leave the Irish on the outside looking in, in regards to the National Championship picture. Tradition is only a positive if you can maintain it. Look at Princeton: they have incredible tradition in college football, just not in the last 100 years. If ND feels like they will be denied "fair" access to the National Championship without joining a conference, then tradition would demand that they do just that.

i said we dont need the money, but the money would be the only positive to come out of joining a conference.

 

[IrishandColts]

That was a false rumor.

 

[FrankMA]

An interesting column from the Washington Post on Big 10 expansion plans. It has some good points in it:

washingtonpost.com

 

[kmoose]

i said we dont need the money, but the money would be the only positive to come out of joining a conference.

I just don't see it that way. It's possible that a scenario could develop where ND would be left out of the BCS NC picture, as an independent. It's pretty slim, but it could happen. In that case, then the obvious positive outcome would be access to the NC game. Under the current system/conference alignments, I would agree with you. I just think that College Football is about to undergo some major changes, in regards to conference alignments, and that may put ND in a position on the outside, looking in.

 

[laservet]

small correction- Wisconsin and illinois are tied for 39th. By your definition of close, ND is closer in rank to Cornell and Brown than to Michigan, and closer to Yale, Penn, Columbia, and Dartmouth than to Illinois and Wisconsin (And as close to Harvard and Princeton). it would be ridiculous to suggest we join the Ivy League, but in terms of academics and size, it's a better fit than the Big 10. I do acknowledge your point that individual Big 10 schools may be superior in some disciplines. Clearly MSU has a better Ag department than we do.

Look at graduate programs and research -- that is a strength of the Big 10.

http://mup.asu.edu/research2008.pdf

 

[phork]

No,the primary reason we're not in the Big10 is because we've turned them down about 50 times.I'm sure if ND wanted to join in the past they would have...especially if they could stick it to Michigan.They had nothing to do with it.

Fielding Yost blacklisted ND from Big10 membership way back in the day, ND wanted in. Fielding Yost is a member of the skunk bear family.

 

[BirdmanND06]

I just don't see it that way. It's possible that a scenario could develop where ND would be left out of the BCS NC picture, as an independent. It's pretty slim, but it could happen. In that case, then the obvious positive outcome would be access to the NC game. Under the current system/conference alignments, I would agree with you. I just think that College Football is about to undergo some major changes, in regards to conference alignments, and that may put ND in a position on the outside, looking in.

The current BCS arrangement is already harder on ND than members of the big 6 conferences. I think it is entirely within the realm of possibility that ND could be facing an even more unfavorable situation in the future, and that doesn't even take in to account what could happen to ND's other sports.

 

[irishtrain]

There is no way the BCS passes up a Notre Dame team that is excellent when the time comes to play in the last game. If Notre Dame is undefeated they go, so go undefeated and play for it all. If they arent undefeated then they may get left out but the college football world will NOT tolerate an undefeated Notre Dame team not being allowed to play for all the marbles. Notre Dame is still Notre Dame. The trick is to become excellent again and go undefeated. As I said on the other post about joining the little eleven ND doesnt need the $$$$.

 

[Irish4Life09]

Fielding Yost blacklisted ND from Big10 membership way back in the day, ND wanted in. Fielding Yost is a member of the skunk bear family.

Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?
A football coach from Michigan didnt keep us from joining the Big10.
We have had SEVERAL chances to join,before and after his death...and we have always turned them down.
If Notre Dame had wanted to join the Big10 in the past,we'd be in.

 

[alaskandomer]

Look at graduate programs and research -- that is a strength of the Big 10.

http://mup.asu.edu/research2008.pdf

What's your point? While we have solid graduate and Law programs, our real strength is in our undergraduate programs.

 

[alaskandomer]

Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?
A football coach from Michigan didnt keep us from joining the Big10.
We have had SEVERAL chances to join,before and after his death...and we have always turned them down.
If Notre Dame had wanted to join the Big10 in the past,we'd be in.

It may sound ridiculous, but it's true nonetheless. We turned the Big 10 down only in recent years. Hopefully we'll do so again.

 

[mgriff]

Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?
A football coach from Michigan didnt keep us from joining the Big10.
We have had SEVERAL chances to join,before and after his death...and we have always turned them down.
If Notre Dame had wanted to join the Big10 in the past,we'd be in.

You Sir, should read up on your history. phork is 100% right. The Michigan coach got the rest of the conference to blackball ND, forcing them to go play national power, Army. The ragtag group of ND players beat Army, and struck off a series of events that would change college football forever. All because Michigan was pissed that Notre Dame beat them. Since that time Notre Dame has turned down every invitation to join the Big Ten, but the reason they were able to turn it down was because of the wonderful exposure and money the university got from Michigan forcing them to go play that difficult game.

 

[Irish4Life09]

You Sir, should read up on your history. phork is 100% right. The Michigan coach got the rest of the conference to blackball ND, forcing them to go play national power, Army. The ragtag group of ND players beat Army, and struck off a series of events that would change college football forever. All because Michigan was pissed that Notre Dame beat them. Since that time Notre Dame has turned down every invitation to join the Big Ten, but the reason they were able to turn it down was because of the wonderful exposure and money the university got from Michigan forcing them to go play that difficult game.

that may be so...but what i was saying, is that we have have several opportunities since to join, and we always turn them down.that coach had nothing to do with the more recent no's.
obviously the Big10 has always wanted us to join them...otherwise they wouldnt put out the offers.....

 

[mgriff]

that may be so...but what i was saying, is that we have have several opportunities since to join, and we always turn them down.that coach had nothing to do with the more recent no's.
obviously the Big10 has always wanted us to join them...otherwise they wouldnt put out the offers.....

I'm simply saying that your statement was incorrect. Notre Dame did, way back when, try to join the Western Conference, which was the precursor to the Big Ten. Recently you are spot on, Notre Dame has declined an invitation every time.

 

[TerryTate]

Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany denies latest expansion rumors - ESPN

"Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany e-mailed conference officials Tuesday to stamp out a rumor that four schools had already been offered a chance to join the league.

Ohio State athletic director Gene Smith confirmed Tuesday that Delany had quashed a report that the Big Ten had offered expansion spots to Missouri, Nebraska, Notre Dame and Rutgers."