Irish to possibly join Conference?

[AlumniHall98]

I was listening to "Mike and Mike" this morning, and Golic was saying something along the lines of the decision to join a conference or not would largely hinge on how it would impact all the OTHER sports at Notre Dame, and not necessarily how it impacts the football team - I must say, I love the big guy, but I think he is 100% WRONG on this!! I mean come on now...seriously?? ND will decide to put the football team into a conference because of how that might impact on the NON-football sports teams in South Bend?? That is simply ludicrous. Everyone knows Irish Football is a way of life, no, it is THE way of life at Our Lady's University - when it comes to athletics at Notre Dame. ALL decisions stem from what is best for the football program, and everything else follows suit. Thus why the football team is the only NON-Big East athletic team for the Irish- it made no sense for the football team to join a conference then, and I would argue it continues to make very little sense to do so now.

 

[jason_h537]

With the Big 10 and Pac 10 possibly expanding to 12 this may force ND to join a conference if, AND ONLY IF, it hurts their ability to create a full schedule. I hope this doesnt happen because being independent really adds to the mystique but its a possibility.

I would call it a plan D

 

[BCSorBust]

Agree totally with Jason on this one. They are talking about it only in the context of the creation of 4 super-conferences which I think would also further the development of a playoff system years from now. I think it's smart of Jack to think in advance like this. It would be devastating to the program if all of this were to happen and the Irish weren't included in some way shape or form - that said I don't see it happening without the Irish being included but better to be proactive than reactive.

 

[BirdmanND06]

How many years out of the BCS system have we had 5 undefeated teams? How many times do you expect that is going to happen in years to come?

I see this happening more and more often in the future unless the system is changed. Teams have realized that the easiest way to make it to a national championship or BCS bowl is fill out your schedule with as many cupcakes as possible, and this has lead to the more frequent appearance of undefeated teams. At this point, I expect to see at least 3 undefeated teams a year for the foreseeable future.

 

[irishtrain]

what i took from his statement is that they would join a conferance ONLY if the bcs trys to freeze us out of A.)the money $$$ b.) the national championship process. thats all...the sky is not falling! jack will fight for the status quo as it pertains to our relationship with the bcs.

This is correct my problem is they ARE trying to squeeze Notre Dame out, all you have to do is listen to espn (notice small caps) and the Tony Barnhrdts of the sports world to see that. They dont want Notre Dame out there calling their own shots because Notre Dame when they win is the only team in America that can call their own shots. These guys do not want Notre Dame not being under their control.

 

[Ben E.]

This is correct my problem is they ARE trying to squeeze Notre Dame out, all you have to do is listen to espn (notice small caps) and the Tony Barnhrdts of the sports world to see that. They dont want Notre Dame out there calling their own shots because Notre Dame when they win is the only team in America that can call their own shots. These guys do not want Notre Dame not being under their control.

very true, they(bcs) sense weakness and are trying a power grab! in the end it wont change they(bcs) will just use the threat of the squeeze to leverage ND's portion of the cash down. imo...at least i hope!

 

[phork]

Treading on thin ice here fellas. Ultimately in the end I think its going to happen. What ND needs to do is take the cat bird's seat and force the issue with what they want out of this deal. IE keep NBC contract, etc. If you wait too long you risk the issue of being left out in the cold.

 

[irishtrain]

Jack implied that its good for college football to keep Notre Dame independent. If college football looses Notre Dame's independence college football will never-ever be the same. It will in essence have its innocence (or what little is left of it) completely blown away. Can you imagine trying to tell a kid that at one time Notre Dame stood alone in all its spendor as they have a freaking road game at Minnesota or Rutgers as part of the big east/little 11. No way Notre Dame will ever be the same-just another college football conference team. It will be a sad day.

 

[BGIF]

Treading on thin ice here fellas. Ultimately in the end I think its going to happen. What ND needs to do is take the cat bird's seat and force the issue with what they want out of this deal. IE keep NBC contract, etc. If you wait too long you risk the issue of being left out in the cold.

Why would NBC offer a contract to nationally broadcast regional games? Any conference, Big 10, Big East, Conference USA is REGIONAL.

 

[phork]

Because its ND.

 

[greenbeer]

All this conference talk is a distraction from the real issue. ND and its' percieved special treatment etc was gained because ND is a class act and drips with tradition and most of all THEY WON FOOTBALL GAMES. When this happens again, and it will, I would think all the other issues will crystalize.

GO IRISH

 

[phgreek]

I've seen a number of permutations of the question "should ND join a conference". Thankfully, most times folks come to the conclusion that would be a bad thing.

I understand the BCS and their network (espn) want ND to be beholding to them. If I were them I would to...what better time than now to put the press on...If we were winning, this discussion would not be taken seriously.

I still believe the BCS will leave ND alone in the end...nobody can fill a stadium like ND football...NOBODY! A part of this discussion has to be the bowls themselves, and their sponsors. They all want ND to have as much access to their bowls as is possible. Its a sure ticket to a sellout, and when their bowl is not the NC, ND is the next best gig, regardless of rank...That does not go away.

Anyway, I oversimplify alot, but I see it as not making sense for anyone...if they think about it.

 

[irishtrain]

Great article on NDLNA stating my very thoughts-I hope Jack reads it. By the way the Notre Dame jersey with a conference affiliation tag on it would look ridiculous, laughable. Maybe the conference tie in should put ND on their jerseys as NOTRE DAME is bigger than their stinking conference. Leave the crown jewel of college football alone-just win 10 or 11 games and see what happens

 

[johnnykillz]

I understand the BCS and their network (espn) want ND to be beholding to them.

You're a genius. This belongs in my conspiracy theory thread...

 

[irishtrain]

I've seen a number of permutations of the question "should ND join a conference". Thankfully, most times folks come to the conclusion that would be a bad thing.

I understand the BCS and their network (espn) want ND to be beholding to them. If I were them I would to...what better time than now to put the press on...If we were winning, this discussion would not be taken seriously.

I still believe the BCS will leave ND alone in the end...foonobody can fill a stadium like ND tball...NOBODY! A part of this discussion has to be the bowls themselves, and their sponsors. They all want ND to have as much access to their bowls as is possible. Its a sure ticket to a sellout, and when their bowl is not the NC, ND is the next best gig, regardless of rank...That does not go away.

Anyway, I oversimplify alot, but I see it as not making sense for anyone...if they think about it.

This man is right on nobody fills a stadium like Notre Dame-NOBODY pats on the back my friend, great post

 

[WabashFalcon]

The fact is, with the upcoming super conferences... i.e. Pac 16, Big 16, ND can't do anything about it. In order to get into a title game, they will have to join a conference.

 

[johnnykillz]

Anyone got any extra Zoloft?

 

[kmoose]

This man is right on nobody fills a stadium like Notre Dame-NOBODY pats on the back my friend, great post

I was AT the Fiesta Bowl, in 2006. The place was almost exactly 50-50, Buckeyes and Irish. If it was tipped one way or the other, it was in tOSU's favor. The fact is that ND is a great draw. But, what alot of people are overlooking is.........it's not the ONLY draw. There are other teams that can fill stadiums on a regular basis.

 

[phgreek]

The fact is, with the upcoming super conferences... i.e. Pac 16, Big 16, ND can't do anything about it. In order to get into a title game, they will have to join a conference.

Maybe...but I guess I just don't understand how this changes wins and losses and strength of schedule, and the BCS system.

Only way this comes in on us is if folks who've played against ND are suddenly going to be compelled to not?

Even in the "super conference" approach...folks gotta have non-conference games...its absurd to think it would be good for their recruiting if they inbred like that...Notre Dame is not the only powerhouse who suffers if non-conference games aren't supported...SC, TEXAS, Florida, and Bama would suffer...and the type A personalities of coaches just don't jive with boundaries like that...Saban is going to want to play who he wants to play if he thinks it furthers his recruiting somewhere...same with Urbie. Don't know of a coach who likes to hide (well ok JOEPA). As well, ND revenues for TV are going to be high...how do ya ignore that?

In my time I've seen some monumental screw ups...so maybe these coaches just go along, maybe everyone is turned into regional league members...and maybe people in power to make decisions ignore the almighty dollar, and this doesn't go our way...but it'd be beyond dumb.

As well, my view is, the BCS is about to be forceably restructured... how they hand out bowl bids with guarantees for conferences will be undone...its the thing that drives the anti-trust chatter...and that is serious stuff...BCS can't withstand a pissed off senator...and there are a handfull, and they are coming for them...

I can only conceive one "fair" way to do the bowls...My thought is, the average BCS score for an entire conference should drive whose champion gets the automatic bowl bids outside the NC game, with all conferences that are DI A on equal footing (NC game strictly on performance and SOS of individual teams...So ND can play NC games). I like it because 1) it forces teams to seek challenge vs pad their schedules by adding patsy teams to their conferences, 2) the BCS isn't overcome by a playoff, and 3) the Utah, Boise State, TCUs can't complain about fairness. (by the way, I think the mountain west champion would have gotten an automatic bowl this year...vs an at large shafting) 4) simplifies the BCS rules so people with IQs of less than 120 can make sense of it

anyway...back to what matters...In that scenario, monster conferences don't make sense because the exposure the lower performing teams give isn't worth it (e.g. vanderbuilt hurts the entire SEC come bowl time...so why add more teams)...AND...ND is back in the saddle...folks will be looking to up their SOS without the exposure of a loss to a competing conference...so conferences would be vying for ND to play their teams, while remaining an independant...as well, with the at large part of the BCS scenario unchanged...ND would almost always get an at large bid (assuming we actually perform) because we fill stadiums...

Bwahahaha...ND World Domination...well...We can wish can't we...

anyway...this was a monumental rant...whatever beating you guys throw out...I deserve

 

[phgreek]

I was AT the Fiesta Bowl, in 2006. The place was almost exactly 50-50, Buckeyes and Irish. If it was tipped one way or the other, it was in tOSU's favor. The fact is that ND is a great draw. But, what alot of people are overlooking is.........it's not the ONLY draw. There are other teams that can fill stadiums on a regular basis.

Maybe so...but I still think year in and year out we are going to outperform all of them when it comes to putting butts in seats...and you point to a major factor...everybody wants to see ND, even if to root against...you telling me that many Ohio state folks show up if they are playing Boston College in the fiesta bowl?

 

[phgreek]

You're a genius. This belongs in my conspiracy theory thread...

what if its true...

"The Bowl Championship Series will move to ESPN beginning with the 2011 games. Under a new four-year contract between ESPN and the BCS, the cable network will broadcast the Fiesta, Orange, Rose and Sugar Bowls from 2011-2014, in addition to the BCS national championship game."

BCS Explained, Bowl Championship Series

 

[kmoose]

Maybe so...but I still think year in and year out we are going to outperform all of them when it comes to putting butts in seats...and you point to a major factor...everybody wants to see ND, even if to root against...you telling me that many Ohio state folks show up if they are playing Boston College in the fiesta bowl?

Yes.............tOSU travels EXTREMELY well. Why do you think that the Fiesta always jumps at the chance to have them?

 

[ALA2262]

Originally Posted by BirdmanND06
"I need to see my Irish on TV."

Originally Posted by johnnykillz
"Amen."



Perzacktly, gentlemenses!

Sadly, the way of conferences (and the schools that belong to them) is to more and more pursue the "follow the money" philosophy ... to the detriment of many fans. What might be the state of college football should every conference create their own cable/satellite network as the Big Ten and the Big East have? (Does the SEC have one up and running or is it still in the planning stage? The PAC 10? The Big 12? The ACC, WAC, etc.?). All require a subscription payment, yet do nothing to eliminate the commercials that fully fund the "free" over-the-air broadcasts of CBS, NBC and ABC. ESPN and its iterations are an alternative at times but they, too, are "pay per view." A lucrative carrot to dangle. Double dipping nonetheless. And antithetical to (old fart) RKG's like me who view spending a cool thou a year for 75 or so hours (I include b-ball in my number crunching) of games is money ill spent.
I miss the good old days when ND wasn't a (nearly) stand-alone division 1 independent. When the likes of ND, Penn State, Miami, FSU, et al. were unfettered by conference requirements college football was much more fluid. Scheduling five years out was a crap shoot, but when the stars aligned it was electric. Exclusive broadcast deals for pay may well enrich the coffers of many a school, but deprive many a fan. Conference constrictions on scheduling games, whether due to the limited number of out-of-conference dates available or the broadcast rights allowed, are antithetical to free wheeling competition and "rivalries," however fleeting or sporadically interesting.
Notre Dame's long and short standing rivalries are clearly not conference related. ND is not a member of the Big Ten or the PAC 10. Navy is one of the few independents still standing. I'd love to see a "market" that has the Irish playing FSU, Miami (FL), Texas and others more regularly. On "free" TV. I'd throw 'Bama into that mix, but I like being able to say "ND 4, Bear Bryant 0" and would hate to have that [shit-eating-grin-producing] fun spoiled. I'd risk our unbeaten "streak" against the Crimson Tide if it meant that I could avoid having to pay a "conference premium" to follow the Irish on TV.

From one old guy to another please allow me to answer your question about the SEC TV network and correct your comment about the record vs. the Crimson Tide.

First your question pertaining to an SEC TV network..... "Does the SEC have one up and running or is it still in the planning stage?" .....The answer(s) is no and no. The SEC contract with ESPN eliminated that conversation.

Second your comment about the record vs. the Crimson Tide....."I'd risk our unbeaten "streak" against the Crimson Tide"...... Sorry but that streak ended in 1986 with Bama winning 28-10.

And now, so as not to hijack the thread, my comments on the issue. I would like to see ND remain independent. Heck, I would like for Bama to be independent. The SEC has never sided with Bama on anything. If Bama is for it, the SEC is against it. We learned that way back when GT, facing the same question ND faces now about remaining independent or joining a conference, applied for readmittance to the SEC. Coach Bryant, despite his great dislike for Atlanta, foresaw what is happening now with expansion and the big TV money and sponsored GT's bid for readmittance because the Atlanta TV market was larger than the rest of the SEC's combined. As I recall, the motion did not even get a seconding. The disdain the conference has for Bama continues to this day. Six of Bama's eight conference opponents will have a bye before their game with Bama in 2010. That will make a total of 17 such games in the past four years. Consider that the second place total of five in four years on that list, by LSU, will not exceed Bama's one year 2010 total. Do you ND fans really want the little eleven making out your schedule? Also the SEC has two self imposed parameters in scheduling. They are not supposed to schedule two straight away conference games for any one school, and they are not supposed to schedule five straight conference games in five weeks for any one school. In 2010, Bama will, for the SECOND straight year, will play 5 conference games in 5 straight weeks. Not supposed to happen in one year, mush less two straight. Again I ask, do you ND fans want the little eleven making out your schedule?

 

[phgreek]

Yes.............tOSU travels EXTREMELY well. Why do you think that the Fiesta always jumps at the chance to have them?

I'll take your word for it...You've always been reserved in your comments that I've seen (and I have not) I'll concede that The Tressel OSU gang does well...

but I gotta qualify the concession a little...

I've lived in Utah for 15 years...ask me how many tOSU fans I've ever met. I know at least 50 people who are ND fans, and a handfull of fans from other schools...actually more LSU folk than you'd expect. I work primarily with Military folks who are pretty transient folks...so i get to work with people from Alaska to Alabama, and the faces refresh about every two years...the dang AF headquarters is at Wright Patterson (Ohio)...you'd think I'd have found a healthy dose of tOSU fans as compared to ND...Not even close. In fact nobody even sniffs the numbers of ND fans (outside the Utah schools of course)

No matter where I've gone I've always come across ND fans in numbers...even in Utah.

Certainly not a controled test, but it is meaningful.

I think ND has as active a fan base as any, I think teams that play ND look at it as a huge event, as do their fans, so we envigorate opponant fan bases, and finally we are national, which means the fan base doesn't need to "travel well", they already live pretty much wherever the team plays...to me thats pretty tough for a regional/conference team to contend with...

anyway..I drink the coolaid too...

 

[johnnykillz]

I've lived in Utah for 15 years...

anyway..I drink the coolaid too...

Hill AFB guy huh? I lived there in Weber Canyon right next to your base at the Hubbard House near Mountain Green for two years, one year at Cemetary Point there in Huntsville, and one year in Ogden.

I never met many ND fans, although I worked with an ND alumni named Christine. Good times.

Say hi to Snow Basin for me, will ya? And don't forget a Shooting Star burger too, and kiss the St. Bernard for me. (I miss the fry sauce, and all the shorty's with blonde hair and blue eyes...)

 

[dshans]

Anyone got any extra Zoloft?

Nope, but NDOM or GO IRISH might be of some help.

I do have an unfilled prescription for Vicodin – from a lovely visit to the dentist a week ago. ("Vicodin? I don't need no steenking Vicodin! Pain is my friend --- it reminds me that I'm alive and an active participant in the human condition.) Think that would help? I could fax it to you. Only 50 vBucks.

 

[johnnykillz]

Nope, but NDOM or GO IRISH might be of some help.

I do have an unfilled prescription for Vicodin – from a lovely visit to the dentist a week ago. ("Vicodin? I don't need no steenking Vicodin! Pain is my friend --- it reminds me that I'm alive and an active participant in the human condition.) Think that would help? I could fax it to you. Only 50 vBucks.

NDOM and Go Irish!!!... How bad do I miss those days of not having a job with policies. As far as the Vicodin goes, thats a hell of a deal. I really just need Zoloft.

Pain is only as real as we make it. I can't wait to go comfortably numb.

P.S., We need to stay independent. Hell, let's make our own conference with one team in it. The Irish Conference. We'll always win the championship, with a guaranteed bowl birth. Woo Hoo!

 

[dshans]

We need to stay independent. Hell, let's make our own conference with one team in it. The Irish Conference. We'll always win the championship, with a guaranteed bowl birth. Woo Hoo!

Nitrous Oxide, mayhap??? Oh-so-pleasant flights of giggling fancy!

I agree with your sentiment on remaining an independent amidst the affiliated, delineated and often greed driven conference teams. "Live Free Or Die" and all that jazz. A little free-form improvisation keeps the genre alive, interesting and growing.

Oh, and just to be a picky-ass Old Fart SOB, I'm thinkin' you meant "bowl berth" rather than "bowl birth." I'm not a fan of the BCS structure as it exists, but I don't think it's currently the optimal time to "cut the cord."

 

[phgreek]

NDOM and Go Irish!!!... How bad do I miss those days of not having a job with policies. As far as the Vicodin goes, thats a hell of a deal. I really just need Zoloft.

Pain is only as real as we make it. I can't wait to go comfortably numb.

P.S., We need to stay independent. Hell, let's make our own conference with one team in it. The Irish Conference. We'll always win the championship, with a guaranteed bowl birth. Woo Hoo!

I'd say us and Navy...but recently we've proven that wouldn't assure us a conference championship...yea I said it!

 

[phgreek]

Hill AFB guy huh? I lived there in Weber Canyon right next to your base at the Hubbard House near Mountain Green for two years, one year at Cemetary Point there in Huntsville, and one year in Ogden.

I never met many ND fans, although I worked with an ND alumni named Christine. Good times.

Say hi to Snow Basin for me, will ya? And don't forget a Shooting Star burger too, and kiss the St. Bernard for me. (I miss the fry sauce, and all the shorty's with blonde hair and blue eyes...)

Yea...Hill is where I spend alot of time...you guessed it.

I meet a couple ND folks every "rotation"...officers to enlisted...

...I love mountain green...live directly west of the weber canyon out in the flat land...spent many an afternoon fishing the Weber river right at the Mountain green exit...also spent some time on the basin, however its been awhile...

Hilarious about fry sauce...i forget how foreign that is to most folks

one o them shorties w/ blonde hair blue eyes bagged me (apprently those blue eyes have poor vision)...its why I'm still here I guess, well and we've been flush with wars for some time now...The Hill world has been busy, very busy.

Its cool to hear from someone who'se been around my stomping grounds...