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HereComeTheIrish
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BAM!!!!
The Bench Press Discussion
- Thread starter mbeckha
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WabashFalcon
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NDinL.A.
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Beautiful. Reps.
And that's the beauty of this thing...that mbecha calls everyone who doesn't agree with him 'uneducated', but yet he disagrees with the ND strength and conditioning coach and the Alabama S&C coach, meaning they too are uneducated. ND is ND, and Alabama just won the NC, but a high school athletic director knows much more than they do. Wow.
Signed,
UneducatedinL.A.
I can be there with a video camera for posterity. Let me know when.
WabashFalcon
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God... I wanna go now. Can I make this a professional day?
Where there any coaching changes or changes in coaching schemes?
Was the power clean the only lift you did?
Prior to you winning season did you have a complete strength and conditioning program?
What was his reasoning behind why the power clean was the most essential?
Congratulations on the masters!
I would love to set up a time to meet with him, I love to hear his opinion first hand. I would most definitly let everyone know when I would go as well. I would love to see what some of the people on here actually look like.
Just because about 80% of the people post uneducated responses do not mean I consider him or you uneducated.
If you too do a proper reseach article about this I would give you mad props. I would even consider responding to the guy you want to do it with. In addition, nothing I write is my idea. It is all science that you will find in books, Thats like saying 2+2=4 was my idea.
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Im in!
Not everyone, only those with uneducated posts. Please give reference.
I didnt say that.
NDinL.A.
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Give reference? Seriously? Your whole existence on this board seems to be that you are desperate to show everyone how much smarter you are than everyone else, including Longo:
(This is my favorite! The FL S&C coach uses YOUR philosophy! LOL!)
Is that enough? Do you need more references? I mean, I can keep going...it's pretty easy, seeing as how you keep regurgitating the same old tired line throughout your time here: Longo sucks, you love Mickey at FL and anyone who does things differently knows nothing, and you know more than Longo. That about sum it up for you?
Again, you call a guy who moved up the ladder and is now the S&C coach at Notre friggin' Dame a whack job, and you feel that YOU should have been given a chance at the job. You...some nobody who sits behind a monitor and tells everyone else how great he is, since he can't do it himself in real life.
And yes, you think you are better and more educated than Paul Longo. Need anymore references?
You'll be in when you show up in Tuscaloosa to face the coach.
Let bigedefense know your schedule so the arrangements can be made.
OchoShayneO
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russian kettlebells
bigedefense
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I don't know how to do the quotes in response to someones post, but this is my response to mbecka's questions. And since I have a sick 4 yr old (pneumonia), I am sitting up with her and just read your post.
The only changes in the staff were a new head coach and myself.
Yes, they lifted weights before we got there. It was very generic and not much emphasis put on it. I now run our strength and conditioning program and I do like most all coaches do, I borrow ideas from others. I take some from coaches I have worked with in the past, some from listening to them at clinics, and from visiting other programs that seem to produce results year in and year out. We now have a nice stereo in our weight room. NO mbecka they do not lift it, they bring music that motivates them and we play it loud. We are very fast pace and when our HC is in there with us, I lift with them. We use a little of the BFS (sorry, I forgot to mention that I borrowed from there too). I have a board that our art department put together for us that has 5 different levels at the top; RESISTENT, EXSISTANT, STAGNENT, COMPLIENT, AND DOMINANT. Resistant means that they havent bought in and are unwilling to do what is asked of them in the weight room. Exsistant means that they are doing what they are told, no more or no less. Only doing it so they can be around their freinds or because their dad wants them to play. Havent really bought into the system. Stagnent means that they are doing what they are told, but do not feel that they are gonna play any way so why give it all they have, but kinda are buying into what we are doing. Complient means that they are doing what they are told, pretty much buy what we are doing, but will cut corners in a blink of an eye if you're not right over them. Dominant means that they have completely bought in and are willing to not only do what it takes, but are pushing their teammates to push as well. If they are to finish with 5 reps, they will do 6 come hell or high water. I evaluate each player and on Monday morning I put their name under which category they are in. Beside this board (again our art department put this together very well), I have what will happen if the whole team is in the Reluctant category (losing season, possibly 0-10), up to if our whole team is in the dominant category (10-0 and possibly state champs) their are other examples in between, but maybe you get the picture. Our first year together, we only had 5 that were in the dominant category (we went 5-5). Each year that number has increased. This past season we had 23 of our 35 players in the dominant category and we were 9-1 in the regular season and lost in the state semi's.
Yes, mbecka, we do more than power cleans, but that is the lift that I preach will be the difference in that extra 6 inches for the first down, or will be the difference in a tackle for a one yard gain or a tackle for a one yard loss. We do not, however, do any flat bench presses with the bar. We do dumb bell presses. That is my choice because of my personal preference (I dislocated my shoulder in college while trying to bench 385. I wanted to beat my buddy who had done 365 the week before). I know that was very uneducated in me, but I was a college kid who was very competitive. I feel that when they don't try to one up a teammate, they can focus on technique better, but that is only my opinion. We do not do any squats with the bar either. We use the leg press and hack squats instead. Again, that is my preference because of past experiences ( I had a teammate to tear an ACL while going parallel). I have now scientific research on either of those, just real life experience. We seem to be strong enough without doing them however. An example would be our safety that signed last year with Miss St. When he got down to Starkville, they tested him, and he ended up being one of the strongest db's on the team (330 flat bench and 500 parallel squat). Oh, and his numbers are better now that he has gotten used to the technique and had a year of growth in college. I have gotten off task ( sorry its late). I give out T-shirts to players who are in the dominant category for 75% of the off season. These are high school kids and to you they may sound stupid or uneducated, but my players have bought in and when we hit the weight room, they are there for business. We are loud, our music is loud, and our results have been loud.
Yes, they had a weight program before I got there. Yes, it was one that could make them stronger. Yes, the other coach was in there with them. BUT, the little things that we (HC and myself) have done, have made the biggest difference. NOthing works unless the players buy into it and, in my opinion, buy into the coach that is trying to sell it. I am sorry that this post is so long, but I know that I still will have questions to answer for mbecka.
As for why the power clean (or hang clean) is so essential....I could tell you. Hell, I could tell you where you could find it in research. BUT, seeing as how you LOVE to research, I challenge you to find it. I did it, its out there. I'll give you one hint where you could start...BFS.
The only changes in the staff were a new head coach and myself.
Yes, they lifted weights before we got there. It was very generic and not much emphasis put on it. I now run our strength and conditioning program and I do like most all coaches do, I borrow ideas from others. I take some from coaches I have worked with in the past, some from listening to them at clinics, and from visiting other programs that seem to produce results year in and year out. We now have a nice stereo in our weight room. NO mbecka they do not lift it, they bring music that motivates them and we play it loud. We are very fast pace and when our HC is in there with us, I lift with them. We use a little of the BFS (sorry, I forgot to mention that I borrowed from there too). I have a board that our art department put together for us that has 5 different levels at the top; RESISTENT, EXSISTANT, STAGNENT, COMPLIENT, AND DOMINANT. Resistant means that they havent bought in and are unwilling to do what is asked of them in the weight room. Exsistant means that they are doing what they are told, no more or no less. Only doing it so they can be around their freinds or because their dad wants them to play. Havent really bought into the system. Stagnent means that they are doing what they are told, but do not feel that they are gonna play any way so why give it all they have, but kinda are buying into what we are doing. Complient means that they are doing what they are told, pretty much buy what we are doing, but will cut corners in a blink of an eye if you're not right over them. Dominant means that they have completely bought in and are willing to not only do what it takes, but are pushing their teammates to push as well. If they are to finish with 5 reps, they will do 6 come hell or high water. I evaluate each player and on Monday morning I put their name under which category they are in. Beside this board (again our art department put this together very well), I have what will happen if the whole team is in the Reluctant category (losing season, possibly 0-10), up to if our whole team is in the dominant category (10-0 and possibly state champs) their are other examples in between, but maybe you get the picture. Our first year together, we only had 5 that were in the dominant category (we went 5-5). Each year that number has increased. This past season we had 23 of our 35 players in the dominant category and we were 9-1 in the regular season and lost in the state semi's.
Yes, mbecka, we do more than power cleans, but that is the lift that I preach will be the difference in that extra 6 inches for the first down, or will be the difference in a tackle for a one yard gain or a tackle for a one yard loss. We do not, however, do any flat bench presses with the bar. We do dumb bell presses. That is my choice because of my personal preference (I dislocated my shoulder in college while trying to bench 385. I wanted to beat my buddy who had done 365 the week before). I know that was very uneducated in me, but I was a college kid who was very competitive. I feel that when they don't try to one up a teammate, they can focus on technique better, but that is only my opinion. We do not do any squats with the bar either. We use the leg press and hack squats instead. Again, that is my preference because of past experiences ( I had a teammate to tear an ACL while going parallel). I have now scientific research on either of those, just real life experience. We seem to be strong enough without doing them however. An example would be our safety that signed last year with Miss St. When he got down to Starkville, they tested him, and he ended up being one of the strongest db's on the team (330 flat bench and 500 parallel squat). Oh, and his numbers are better now that he has gotten used to the technique and had a year of growth in college. I have gotten off task ( sorry its late). I give out T-shirts to players who are in the dominant category for 75% of the off season. These are high school kids and to you they may sound stupid or uneducated, but my players have bought in and when we hit the weight room, they are there for business. We are loud, our music is loud, and our results have been loud.
Yes, they had a weight program before I got there. Yes, it was one that could make them stronger. Yes, the other coach was in there with them. BUT, the little things that we (HC and myself) have done, have made the biggest difference. NOthing works unless the players buy into it and, in my opinion, buy into the coach that is trying to sell it. I am sorry that this post is so long, but I know that I still will have questions to answer for mbecka.
As for why the power clean (or hang clean) is so essential....I could tell you. Hell, I could tell you where you could find it in research. BUT, seeing as how you LOVE to research, I challenge you to find it. I did it, its out there. I'll give you one hint where you could start...BFS.
I have next weekend off, I would like to be picked up in a limo.
I never said Longo sucks, I just said he is wacky. A lot of strength coaches try to bring the field of play into their wieght room. The thing is is does not tranfer to the field of play motor skills. Mickey Marotti uses some olympic style lifts sometimes, but it is not the foundation of thier program. Strength is, which it should be. Practicing power should be done at 100% on the field of play so it does translate. I am not so sure I would want the job. Counting reps and monitoring 100's of athletes can get pretty repetitive. Here is a little story about me: I went to Notre Dame's Strengt Clinic about four years ago and meet Tony Rolinski, I'm sure none of you ever heard of him, but he was one of Mickey's Guys that decided to stay in ND. Well guess who offered me a job? Thats right Tony DID? WOW look at that. You could of been talking to a NOtre Dame assistant strength coach, but guess what! I never persued the job because I wanted to do what I do now. Why did he offer me a job, because I understood his philosophy and we come from the S&C religion. You would understand that though, only those in the profession can relate.
In the end, I do not think I am more educated or better than Longo. We just have different philosophies on what the foundation of a program should be. The guy who just left Notre Dame had the same foundation Philosophy as Longo. If you think different you would be fooling yourself. Longo does seem intense about his conditioning. But what is more important is accountability, so hopefully they can motivate and hold accountable for every rep.
In addition, I have decided to not respond to anymore of your posts. You need to get over the fact that I think I'm great. Because of that you never have anything meaningful in reference to the thread. Therefore, like bene, you will not be responded too.
NDinL.A.
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That truly is an amazing story, and it shows I had you all wrong. You and I have a lot more in common than I thought. Here is a little story about me:
I went to Notre Dame's SC-ND classic a few years ago, where I met a guy named Lou Holtz. I'm sure none of you ever heard of him, but he was the coach at ND once upon a time and he still holds a lot of water with ND's admin. Well guess who offered me a job? That's right, Lou did! WOW look at that. You could have been talking to a Notre Dame offensive coordinator, but guess what! I never persued the job because I wanted to do what I do now. Why did he offer me a job, because I understood his philosophy about the option and we come from the triple-option religion. You wouldn't understand that though, only those in the profession can relate.
Dude, we could have working together! And you could have told me how great you were every single day! Damn!!! Oh well, football is my passion, and I'd much rather coach flag football than be an offensive coordinator at ND. Just like you. S&C is your obvious passion, and you'd much rather talk about it on a message board an be a bad AD than be the asst S&C coach at the University of Notre Dame, where you could move up the coaching ladder and maybe even shake hands with that guy at the U of Florida who uses YOUR philosophy LOL.
(Oh, and there goes your theory for why you couldn't be a big time coach. You know, where you said it's not what you know but WHO you know, and you don't know anyone to get you in. You allegedly had your 'in', but didn't take it. Hmmmm...lie much?
Well maybe give yourself some credit, Power lifts are not the secrect recipe. The emphasis you placed on the S&C program was a great decision in becoming successful.
99.9% of ideas are borrowed, you just should be sure to know the research and proven statistics on it before you apply. Because everyone looks for ideas, and when someone or team is winning they say "what are they doing?" To understand that I would have to give a history lesson about strength & conditioning. But think about it like this, some strength coaches used to get info from bodybuilders, now its has changes to olympic style lifters.
Great joke, lift music. NOT
Thats great you lift with them, but shouldn't you be concerne about their lifts and thier techinque
Nice board from the art room, good stuff
Maybe I get the picture? I had it before you even picked up the paint brush.
Why will that be the differnce and not your art sign?
Alot of coaches go with persaonal preference because of an injury they sustained when they were lifting and not understand they proper way of doing things. No offense. Technique is everything. Good to hear that.
Nothing wrong with leg press or hack squats, it is safer and you can work till failure without having to worry if they kid will crumble or get injured. More people injure themselves perfroming olypmic style lifts than any other exercise. In addition, he long tem effects on those lifters joints are redick.
Nothing wrong with being Hypein the wieght room.
Thanks for telling us about your program, good to see you give yourself a little credit. Well deserved. Altough there is no reason to judge a lift because of personal injury.
Feel free to tell us abot BFS philosophy.
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WabashFalcon
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Wait...
If you are fan of BFS, then you've been using someone elses program that has been in play for decades.
Bigger Faster Stronger - High School Athletic Weight Training Programs and Equipment
If you said you don't believe in power lifts, then why does BFS FOCUS on Power lifts to gain confidence and build strength/muscle mass?
Typical rotation for BFS
3x10
3x8
5x5
3x3
Nebraska Pyramid
All of which boil down to Three MAIN lifts with a variation. Squat and Bench... and the POWER CLEAN.
Also, they toss in the trap/dead lift and Towel Bench/Box Squat. Congrats. Your philosophy was created by another guy and you buy a magazine that 98% of all High Schools in American employ.
WabashFalcon
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What happened to the greatest AD in the world?
Jason Pham
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He's directing the athletic department at Duke.
... Too soon ?
... Too soon ?
H
HereComeTheIrish
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Bwahahahahahahaha....
PatsandBostonfan1975
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Benchpress kinda overrated
Benchpress kinda overrated
I put up 330 a few times and and I am the farthest you can be from these kids who are amazing athletes.I am only a pop warner coach but in my humble opinion squats are most effective tell of strength if such A thing there is. Until heart and desire can be measured you can truly never know.
Benchpress kinda overrated
I put up 330 a few times and and I am the farthest you can be from these kids who are amazing athletes.I am only a pop warner coach but in my humble opinion squats are most effective tell of strength if such A thing there is. Until heart and desire can be measured you can truly never know.
WabashFalcon
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Is he the infamous FishonFridays and Partyhardbeforelent?
WabashFalcon
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I put up 400 twice. Then I tore my pec. Not fun.
Ben E.
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yea, the REAL WORLD, the place were there are some things that cant be measured by self absorbed nerds in lab coats. imo the mental aspect of the power clean is equaly important to the physical aspect and maybe that makes it more suited to the high school athlete. but then again who am i to say that alabama's s & c coach doesnt know what he is talking about LOL.
hey if you pick him up in a limo make sure the trunk is big enough for him to ride in.
notredomer23
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I bench 300
with one arm.
with one arm.