So Whats The Difference Between Brian Kelly & Charlie Weis' Offenses?

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

About 6 wins.

Winner

 

[IrishinSyria]

Also, a schedule including teams you can win 70-3 against. And yes he used the back-ups, but still, not exactly a pass-right moment.

 

[HereComeTheIrish]

I can't blame you for losing confidence at all.

But you are hypocritical in your statements. You don't think ND has the capability to run a winning program, but you support a coach that quite simply, BY HIS OWN DEFINITION AND ADMISSION, didn't get the job done. A coach who had 3 consecutive non-winning regular seasons (despite starting off hot the last 2 seasons). How can you say you're pissed at the firing of a coach who couldn't win with his own players, and then say the people who fired that coach aren't able to run a winning program? If you want a winning program, then you should be happy at the Weis firing/Kelly hiring.

See, you're dead wrong when you say that "by most accounts, ND was on track for a 2010 BCS game". In fact, it's the exact opposite. Go and take a poll on every single ND site, or every college football site, and ask them after the Stanford game if they thought that ND was on their way to a BCS game in 2010. Go ask any college football analyst, and they'll laugh. The team could have been in a BCS game THIS YEAR, and didn't even get close.

Next year w/ Weis, and you've read my posts and know that I am a huge Weis guy, was pointing to being the exact same thing...a mediocre team. He had the veteran offense and talent on defense. We would have lost Clausen next year (he was going pro no matter what...his family had already sold their house, and CW was behind the decision with or without him), possibly Tate, and we would have had to deal with a young QB in a highly complicated offense. And don't even get me started on the defense, which never excelled under him. Nothing tells me next year would have been different. It just didn't work out with Weis, and to keep him would have told me much more about ND than firing him, that's for sure.

The other thing I think you're wrong on is about Kelly not being an ND type of coach. Not sure if you've read up on him, but everything about Kelly SCREAMS Notre Dame. Besides the obvious Irish-Catholic connection, this is his dream job. Unlike other coaches who claim this is their dream job, Kelly isn't scared off by the enormity of the job. In other words, he's not a p***y. He told Swarbrick that he didn't need nor want academic exceptions, that he believed ND can win with student athletes. His Cinci teams had the highest team GPAs in the HISTORY of the program. Out of the 10 BCS teams, Cinci had the highest grad rate, and it wasn't even close. I could go on and on.

Kelly is exactly the type of coach I picture running ND (if he wins of course LOL). This isn't a DickRod type of hiring, where he changes the culture of the program and pisses off everyone while doing it (and blames everyone else when it fails). Kelly gets ND, grew up watching ND, and now has his dream job. Good for him...

I don't think taking a wait and see approach is such a bad thing. We're a gun-shy nation right now. While Charlie in my mind deserved another year, BK deserves the benefit of the doubt coming in out of his very prolific offensive system.

Now...on to the defense..................

That is a definate wait and see.

I vote Seek, Te'o and Destroy........

 

[edcubby]

I agree with HereComeTheIrish that Weis should of gotten another year...However, no matter how loud I yelled nobody listened to me.

Weis is gone...so we are now onto Kelly...the biggest difference I believe will be the running game. The backs will have more room to get up field a produce long runs...

Again, offense hasn't been the problem though for the Irish.

 

[TDHeysus]

I can't blame you for losing confidence at all.

But you are hypocritical in your statements. You don't think ND has the capability to run a winning program, but you support a coach that quite simply, BY HIS OWN DEFINITION AND ADMISSION, didn't get the job done. A coach who had 3 consecutive non-winning regular seasons (despite starting off hot the last 2 seasons). How can you say you're pissed at the firing of a coach who couldn't win with his own players, and then say the people who fired that coach aren't able to run a winning program? If you want a winning program, then you should be happy at the Weis firing/Kelly hiring.

good post dude...but I'm not going to debate Weis-Kelly, or how Weis was fired. That debate would end with me on the floor ala Meyer clutching my chest. Ppl have their stats that say Weis was a bad coach and so be it.

Consider this:

The Los Angeles Raiders and Mike Shanahan saga:

Shanahan came in and made alot changes that upset longtime raiders, and long time raider fans. he cut fan favorites, todd christensen, jeff barnes, rod martin, etc, etc. made tons of changes to a team that in retrospect needed to be done BUT WERE NOT POPULAR. he basically dismantled an aging team that had won 2 superbowls. FAns hated shanahan, al davis did shanahan wrong and prematurely fired him. Now we know that the raiders fucked up big time, and have NEVER recovered(expect for the gannon years) and shanahan went on to win 2 super bowls, and became one of the most succesful coaches in his era.

tons of simiularties with Shanahan and Weis
both OC's
both have little or nothing to do with the defense
both were architects of super bowl winning dynasties
both had no Head Coach experience
both attempted to change a long established organization that was headed nowhere
both upset the 'incumbants' and the 'old guard'
both were fired before their plan was realized

Shanahan went on to great success and the Raiders have been crap ever since. Lets hope the similuarites end there, and Notre Dame can move forward with the great coach they have now. Otherwise, they will be like the Raiders, circling the drain for years to come, its already been 15 years

....did you get a chance to see JaMarcus Russell play before he got benched?? $30million guaranteed...ouch

 

[tommyIRISH23]

good post dude...but I'm not going to debate Weis-Kelly, or how Weis was fired. That debate would end with me on the floor ala Meyer clutching my chest. Ppl have their stats that say Weis was a bad coach and so be it.

Consider this:

The Los Angeles Raiders and Mike Shanahan saga:

Shanahan came in and made alot changes that upset longtime raiders, and long time raider fans. he cut fan favorites, todd christensen, jeff barnes, rod martin, etc, etc. made tons of changes to a team that in retrospect needed to be done BUT WERE NOT POPULAR. he basically dismantled an aging team that had won 2 superbowls. FAns hated shanahan, al davis did shanahan wrong and prematurely fired him. Now we know that the raiders fucked up big time, and have NEVER recovered(expect for the gannon years) and shanahan went on to win 2 super bowls, and became one of the most succesful coaches in his era.

tons of simiularties with Shanahan and Weis
both OC's
both have little or nothing to do with the defense
both were architects of super bowl winning dynasties
both had no Head Coach experience
both attempted to change a long established organization that was headed nowhere
both upset the 'incumbants' and the 'old guard'
both were fired before their plan was realized

Shanahan went on to great success and the Raiders have been crap ever since. Lets hope the similuarites end there, and Notre Dame can move forward with the great coach they have now. Otherwise, they will be like the Raiders, circling the drain for years to come, its already been 15 years

....did you get a chance to see JaMarcus Russell play before he got benched?? $30million guaranteed...ouch

One big difference in the two, Weis wasnt the architect of a super bowl winning dynasty. Bill Belichick was.

Also, Shanahan has 2 year I think, so yeah it can be argued that he was prematurely fired. Weis had 5 years and still wasnt reaching his or Notre Dames expectations. The defense was getting worse and worse.

 

[Rudy89]

are there any updates on how Crist is doing. His Knee is my only concern now as far as how well he will do under BK

 

[jason_h537]

readhe is doing great, walking around comfortable and should be ready to go but its still a major injury and should be played on the safe side

 

[Freeman Ara]

I'll be the first to admit that I wanted CW to be successful and given enough time I think he could have been a good HC who won 9-10 games every year, but I think he had to be let go for the good of the program. Let's face it, he was basically toxic to ND football the last 2 years. And I don't think that would have changed after next season. In all likely hood JC was headed out the door after the season. He had very little left to learn at this level and besides playing for the Heisman and a National Title, both very unlikely, he had little to gain from staying. So now we go into next season with Weis on the hot seat (again) and a new QB that has very little experience running the offense. Every decision and loss will be criticized and start the rumors about CW's job yet again. But now he has the excuse that he breaking in a new QB and he just needs more experience (think Clausen growing from 08 to 09). If he was still recruiting well at that point do you have a reason to fire him, I mean he had shown improvement over the last time we had to deal with a new QB taking over. So then here we are going into 2011 hoping again that CW can get it done. At some point you just have to realize its better to cut the cord and start anew. I actually think this resembles the Doherty-Williams transition that happened at UNC in basketball a few years back. One coach could bring in the talent but just couldn't get over the hump so they brought in a proven coach that could get results on the court. It was time to cut the cord.

 

[ND22SB]

From a statistical standpoint, Cincy seems to run the ball a bit less, but much more effectively.

Rushing Statistics
NAME CAR YDS YPC LONG TD
Isaiah Pead 114 758 6.6 67 (TD) 9
Jacob Ramsey 68 421 6.2 62 4
Zach Collaros 57 344 6.0 75 (TD) 4
Darrin Williams 10 37 3.7 10 0
Scott Johnson 2 35 17.5 33 (TD) 1
John Goebel 11 33 3.0 8 0
Travis Kelce 7 28 4.0 12 2
Chazz Anderson 8 27 3.4 10 0
Brendon Kay 4 24 6.0 8 0
Tony Pike 24 18 0.8 16 2
Mardy Gilyard 5 16 3.2 5 1
George Winn 5 12 2.4 6 0
Quentin Hines 2 5 2.5 6 0
Chris Williams 6 5 0.8 3 0
Jake Rogers 1 3 3.0 3 0
Totals 338 1727 5.1 75 23

Armando Allen Jr 142 697 4.9 26 3
Robert Hughes 88 416 4.7 37 5
Golden Tate 25 186 7.4 33 2
Theo Riddick 29 160 5.5 24 0
Jonas Gray 34 119 3.5 19 0
James Aldridge 6 17 2.8 9 0
Dayne Crist 5 16 3.2 16 0
John Goodman 2 14 7.0 13 0
Duval Kamara 1 10 10.0 10 0
Michael Floyd 1 8 8.0 8 0
Eric Maust 1 4 4.0 4 0
Jimmy Clausen 59 -95 -1.6 11 3
Totals 401 1539 3.8 37 13

looking at the numbers does seem more effective. just not sure on the spread and the running back talent i think ND has....thx for the info

 

[phork]

It was unfortunate that the injuries that occurred this year were to some very key players. Jimmy played through it and frankly without him there is probably 3 more losses or more on the board. I liked Charlie despite what some people here might think. He was an ND guy, he had big plans. While a great OC clearly the defense was pushed to the back burner.

Another year with Charlie would be another year of heart break when he struggled to get to 6 or 7 wins, again. It was the right time to cut bait. 5 years, his players, no success.

As for the Shanahan/Raiders debate.. Frankly if Al Davis doesn't like you, you are pooched. Not a valid comparison imo. Al Davis is a cancer and the Raiders are going to be garbage until he croaks.

Brian Kelly is a football coach in all meanings of the word. While his offense is pretty hot, he is doing it with kids that other programs won't look at. He knows the type of players he wants regardless of star value and really to me thats the most important thing. How many times have you seen an all-star when faced with adversity (I'm talking pros here) fall apart? Most times their talent can overwhelm you, but when it hits the fan it just crumbles.

Time will tell if Kelly was the right the guy to hire, but it was definitely time to move on with something new over Weis.

 

[BGIF]

... It was the right time to cut bait. 5 years, his players, no success.
...

Lets be honest. The first class wasn't his.

He had two years with essentially no upperclassmen leadership do to probably the worst recruiting in ND history during Willingham's debacle.

I agree it was time but that statement's grossly unfair. Rockne and Leahy could get anybody admitted. Nor did they have the pressure for their players to perform in the classroom. Gipp probably wouldn't be issued an application form for admissions today. ND wouldn't allow all those transfers Leahy brought back in '46. Holtz was the first one to have to deal wth scholarship reductions at the same time Monk was turning ND into the Princeton of the Midwest.

We judge Davie, Willingham, and Weis against the the ND Legendary Coaches and against Paterno, Bowden, Carroll, Mack, and Stoops yet none of them had to recruit with the ND Admissions Department of today NOR have to deal with Residental Life. Hornung probably would have been tossed out his freshman year. Ross Browner and his teammates that went on a one year sababatical would have been gone permanently had they had to go before ResLife in the past 10 years. With ResLife Weis didn't get to keep "all his players" like other ND coaches have been able to.

 

[IrishinSyria]

As for the Shanahan/Raiders debate.. Frankly if Al Davis doesn't like you, you are pooched. Not a valid comparison imo. Al Davis is a cancer and the Raiders are going to be garbage until he croaks.

I think the concern is that ND, as an institution, is turning into Al Davis.

 

[Seanthornton]

Bla BLa bla bla bla bla.....................NDinSyria Give it a rest.....S.O.S. different thread. Tell someone who gives a turkey.........."Say something Ritcheous for once"! Stole that one from "Kelly's Heroes"





Keep the Faith !!

GO IRISH!!!!

 

[NDinL.A.]

I think the concern is that ND, as an institution, is turning into Al Davis.

Huh? Explain your concern about how ND is turning into Al Davis. You obviously don't know how incredibly, historically bad the Raiders are run under him. ND has been mediocre the past 3 years, but Al Davis bad? Please. We hired the very best available coach out there. Name a better potential hire that was legitimately interested in ND than Brian Kelly. We have some of the best facilities in the country. Recruiting under CW was very good, so there is talent. The coaching staff is in place and recruits have been impressed so far. Things are looking up. BK might not be great in the end, but ND is nowhere near Al Davis territory.

Your hatred for the CW firing/BK hiring is clouding your thinking...

 

[kmoose]

Huh? Explain your concern about how ND is turning into Al Davis. You obviously don't know how incredibly, historically bad the Raiders are run under him. ND has been mediocre the past 3 years, but Al Davis bad? Please. We hired the very best available coach out there. Name a better potential hire that was legitimately interested in ND than Brian Kelly. We have some of the best facilities in the country. Recruiting under CW was very good, so there is talent. The coaching staff is in place and recruits have been impressed so far. Things are looking up. BK might not be great in the end, but ND is nowhere near Al Davis territory.

Your hatred for the CW firing/BK hiring is clouding your thinking...

I can see where he is coming from......I, like you, think he is wrong. But I can at least see the "logic" in the statement. The Raiders were not always run poorly, under Davis. Davis has, over the years, become more and more Howard Hughes-esque. Much like ND, the Raiders once had a very proud, and well deserved, reputation for excellence. Then the "Howard Hughes" bug hit Davis. Since then, it's been a string of bad decisions. One could make the argument that, after Davie, Willingham, and Weis, ND is starting to resemble the Raiders. But it's way early in that process, and there is plenty of time to turn things around, before they can honestly be compared to Al Davis.