The play of our lines and the successes and failures of Weis in retrospect

Jason Pham

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If Weis is indeed on his way out, Swarbrick and President Jenkins have much to lose if they are not prudent in their selection of our succeeding coach and the University may have much to gain if our Athletic Director decides, indeed, that his next hire will be "legacy building" as he told the New York Times in an interview earlier this week.

On another forum, a poster makes a poignant observation about the analysis of the crowd when under duress (i.e. a .500 season) and I thought it would be an interesting point of conversation and consideration.

The poster pointed out that a quiet few had predicted our eventual on-field failures and attributed these failures to poor recruiting and experience curve. The idea is that it takes five years to develop an offensive lineman and four or five to develop a defensive lineman to full potential since linemen develop by playing against their more experienced, upperclass teammates. Even given excellent coaching, under this logic, it would have taken several years to get back to the point where our lines were challenging each other and developping. Since we are only three years removed from the last recruiting class from the previous coaching staff, a class considered sparse, the play on our lines is, predictably, dismal.

Following this logic, is our reliance on the blitz on defense and the pass on offense a decidedly poor schematic plan or is it that our coaching staff was compensating for the as-predicted poor performance of the lines ? Considering how little pressure our defensive line would put on opposing quarterbacks when we did not blitz and the slow progress of the offensive line over Weis' tenure in dictating the line of scrimmage, I am inclined to think at least some of the decision-making resulted from our limited experience and development, neither of which fall entirely, if we accept the above five-year premise, on the current coaching staff.

This isn't to say that Weis definitely should or should not be fired. It should, however, put the wish-list of Notre Dame fans into perspective. If a change is to be made, and change at this point seems imminent, we must go after the maybe no more than half a dozen coaches who would be genuine improvements considering the rebuilding and recruiting situation of the Weis administration.

That in mind, the poster suggests that the going of Weis is not in itself an occasion for which to be enthusiastic. Though, personally, if we sign who we are rumored to be going after the hardest, I would be very enthusiastic.

In sum, we need to make sure that our "upgrade" truly is an "upgrade."
 
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Master Guns

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If Weis is indeed on his way out, Swarbrick and President Jenkins have much to lose if they are not prudent in their selection of our succeeding coach and the University may have much to gain if our Athletic Director decides, indeed, that his next hire will be "legacy building" as he told the New York Times in an interview earlier this week.

On another forum, a poster makes a poignant observation about the analysis of the crowd when under duress (i.e. a .500 season) and I thought it would be an interesting point of conversation and consideration.

The poster pointed out that a quiet few had predicted our eventual on-field failures and attributed these failures to poor recruiting and experience curve. The idea is that it takes five years to develop an offensive lineman and four or five to develop a defensive lineman to full potential since linemen develop by playing against their more experienced, upperclass teammates. Even given excellent coaching, under this logic, it would have taken several years to get back to the point where our lines were challenging each other and developping. Since we are only three years removed from the last recruiting class from the previous coaching staff, a class considered sparse, the play on our lines is, predictably, dismal.

Following this logic, is our reliance on the blitz on defense and the pass on offense a decidedly poor schematic plan or is it that our coaching staff was compensating for the as-predicted poor performance of the lines ? Considering how little pressure our defensive line would put on opposing quarterbacks when we did not blitz and the slow progress of the offensive line over Weis' tenure in dictating the line of scrimmage, I am inclined to think at least some of the decision-making resulted from our limited experience and development, neither of which fall entirely, if we accept the above five-year premise, on the current coaching staff.

This isn't to say that Weis definitely should or should not be fired. It should, however, put the wish-list of Notre Dame fans into perspective. If a change is to be made, and change at this point seems imminent, we must go after the maybe no more than half a dozen coaches who would be genuine improvements consider the rebuilding and recruiting situation of the Weis administration.

That in mind, the poster suggests that the going of Weis is not in itself an occasion for which to be enthusiastic. Though, personally, if we sign who we are rumored to be going after the hardest, I would be very enthusiastic.

In sum, we need to make sure that our "upgrade" truly is an "upgrade."

GREAT POINT! IMO this next hire will determine the direction of the program for decades if not for good. You become another Duke type football program or you retake your place as the icon in college football. It is clear that ND Football has reached the fork in the road.
 

BeatSC

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GREAT POINT! IMO this next hire will determine the direction of the program for decades if not for good. You become another Duke type football program or you retake your place as the icon in college football. It is clear that ND Football has reached the fork in the road.

I think Charlie is nothing more than a QB coach or skills position coach at best. These are the only areas on his teams where the players seem to truly develop. We have had some nice talent during his tenure on both lines but not very deep or well schemed. I know it doesn't happen very often but I would be interested to hear the opinions of some other coaches outside and within the program when the dust finally settles. at this point I would listen to what Mark May would say since he has been closer to being right than Dr. Lou.
 

NDinL.A.

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I think Charlie is nothing more than a QB coach or skills position coach at best. These are the only areas on his teams where the players seem to truly develop. We have had some nice talent during his tenure on both lines but not very deep or well schemed. I know it doesn't happen very often but I would be interested to hear the opinions of some other coaches outside and within the program when the dust finally settles. at this point I would listen to what Mark May would say since he has been closer to being right than Dr. Lou.

The NFL disagrees with you. It's already being reported that CW's been contacted by several NFL teams to be their offensive coordinator. He won 4 rings as an offensive coordinator, and his ND teams, when equipped with veterans who can handle his complex schemes (a problem I have had with his offense considering these are college players) have proven to be among the most prolific in ND history.

Some GMs make bad mistakes, but for the most part they are very smart people. And if that many GMs are already thinking about hiring CW, it means he's much more than a QB coach. Hell, Tony Dungy said on Dan Patrick's show that he'll have his pick of 8-10 OC jobs next year, and called him brilliant.

He failed as a head coach, but the guy knows offense...
 

patman1868

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I think Charlie is nothing more than a QB coach or skills position coach at best. These are the only areas on his teams where the players seem to truly develop. We have had some nice talent during his tenure on both lines but not very deep or well schemed. I know it doesn't happen very often but I would be interested to hear the opinions of some other coaches outside and within the program when the dust finally settles. at this point I would listen to what Mark May would say since he has been closer to being right than Dr. Lou.

I think Charlie is much more than a QB or Skills position coach, he is a very, very good offensive coordinator. ND's offense scored enough points that should get you a win plenty of times, it was the defensive shortcomings that undid this team and Weis more often than not. Charlie's is certainly very good at developing QB's but he can still put together one heck of a scheme and I'm sure whoever gets him next will be more than happy with him as an Offensive Coordinator (wish my bears would make a run at him next year lol). He may not be a good HC but he is certainly a good OC.
 

theShark

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Agreed. The bears have great talent on offense, with the drafting of one stand-out receiver, to make real noise if they had a HC or OC that could buy Cutler more time and teach him how to create more time and avoid the brutal sacks he moronically walks in to.

Bears would be a great fit for Charlie.
 

jason_h537

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The biggest weaknesses of the team are the d-line and tackles. The d-line takes experience and no 5 star will come in and take over at the nose tackle spot and dominate. We have good young tackles but someone like Stockton still needs another year or 2 to be a force in the middle. The tackles have burned us all year. We have recruited o-line well but still cant find a dominant LT (which is what Sam Young was supposed to become). That is related to coaching. Maybe Weis was too loyal to his assistants but he took too long to fire Latina and the Defense has actually gotten worse since 07. We may not be a NC contender but we should be a serious BCS contender now.
 

dmort

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The failure to recruit a punter and field goal kicker.How in the world did Weiss let Whitaker get away ?
 

IrishinSyria

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turk and Ruffer actually played pretty well in the last few games.

As for the original post, I think its one of the most reasonable I have seen yet. Notre Dame is only now reaching a point where it can use the redshirt on good recruits, which makes developing them exponentially easier as you can focus on fundamentals, strength, and speed as opposed to trying to get them ready to play every week.

Charlie has this team headed for dominance, but it was never going to be an easy road. He would have been much better off if his first team hadn't played so well and his contract for 6 years had stayed in place. He would be heading into next season on the edge of glory.
 

dmort

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Ruffer was a walk on. What happened to the scholarship kids he signed ?
 

dskoo65

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The NFL disagrees with you. It's already being reported that CW's been contacted by several NFL teams to be their offensive coordinator.


He failed as a head coach, but the guy knows offense...

we will see how good he is without the people (tom brady/bellichick) and structure he had around him in new england. Tom Brady credits several people, especially Bellichick, for getting him where he is today. weis is mentioned , but so are several others. even matt cassel looked very good in new englands system.
 

Junkhead

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The failure to recruit a punter and field goal kicker.How in the world did Weiss let Whitaker get away ?

That name sounded familiar, and then they mentioned he was an ND transfer. I may be wrong, but wasn't he a walk-on at ND??
 

dmort

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Yes he was. Oddly enough his younger brother is a walk on at Stanford.
 

OCIrish

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we will see how good he is without the people (tom brady/bellichick) and structure he had around him in new england. Tom Brady credits several people, especially Bellichick, for getting him where he is today. weis is mentioned , but so are several others. even matt cassel looked very good in new englands system.

I don't know which interview you have seen, but a couple I've seen mentioned nothing about Belicheck and mostly about CW and his OL.
 

jason_h537

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we will see how good he is without the people (tom brady/bellichick) and structure he had around him in new england. Tom Brady credits several people, especially Bellichick, for getting him where he is today. weis is mentioned , but so are several others. even matt cassel looked very good in new englands system.

Dude why are you a hater. I think Jimmy and Quinn can credit Weis for putting them in a position of 1st round pick. If you think that he cant be a premier offensive coordinator than you are not watching the games
 
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