Reasons to Keep/Fire Weis

[Riddickulous]

Let's hear 'em. We'll go over the facts and get the full opinion of both sides of the argument.

 

[NDFLA]

If you were able to see the post game press conference, I think Charlie summed up his problem. Win or lose it won't change the way the Irish prepare for a game. Things need to change, and Charlie is not capable of changing.

 

[KajuNM]

Okay how's this fire his Ass since he can't coach, we are losing games that we should never lose, demote him from coach & make him a recruiter........That's one thing that he can do well........

 

[Junkhead]

Good points are recruiting and QB development. Bad are game management, not being a motivator, and flat out losing to average teams. And also costing me 3mil vbucks.

 

[BestBIrish47]

Plus side for keeping him....HE IS JOLLY... no for real, I am not happy about today either...but Charlie didn't fumble, he didn't miss the field goals, those are mistakes by PLAYERS!!!

 

[aaronb]

2007 was likely an unavoidable low point. Charlie should get somewhat a pass for that.

2 BCS games in 5 years.

Recruiting and talent level is better than it ever has been in the 85 schollie era

Went from 3 to 7 to 8-10 wins the last 3 seasons.

Probably big buyout

No guarantee that the next guy will never lose and always have the #1 recruiting class

Ultimately the program is trending up. Despite some obvious growing pains.

 

[BestBIrish47]

2007 was likely an unavoidable low point. Charlie should get somewhat a pass for that.

2 BCS games in 5 years.

Recruiting and talent level is better than it ever has been in the 85 schollie era

Went from 3 to 7 to 8-10 wins the last 3 seasons.

Probably big buyout

No guarantee that the next guy will never lose and always have the #1 recruiting class

Ultimately the program is trending up. Despite some obvious growing pains.

FINALLY someone that has their head out of their prospective dirty grotto.

 

[IHateMarkMay]

If you were able to see the post game press conference, I think Charlie summed up his problem. Win or lose it won't change the way the Irish prepare for a game. Things need to change, and Charlie is not capable of changing.

Go look at the tapes of his pressers and news conferences of his first two years and this year and tell me he is not capable of changing.

 

[IrishChris209]

Would a Guy looking like that Motivate you? Damn I am upset right now ...lol

 

[WabashFalcon]

Would a Guy looking like that Motivate you? Damn I am upset right now ...lol

Shut up and stop trolling.

 

[Riddickulous]

What is Charlie's record against ranked teams?

 

[phork]

2007 was likely an unavoidable low point. Charlie should get somewhat a pass for that.

2 BCS games in 5 years.

Recruiting and talent level is better than it ever has been in the 85 schollie era

Went from 3 to 7 to 8-10 wins the last 3 seasons.

Probably big buyout

No guarantee that the next guy will never lose and always have the #1 recruiting class

Ultimately the program is trending up. Despite some obvious growing pains.

More like 2 BCS blowouts in 5 years.

No big win against a top team. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. And at ND where you get rewarded a 10 year extension for coming close.

Recruiting is better, no doubt about that.

Went from 3 to 7 to 7 wins in the last 3 years? I don't see ND beating Pitt or Stanford. Welcome to the 2009 Sheraton Hawaii Bowl.

Alum are rich.

No guarantee the next guy is going to suck either.

 

[PADOMERNUT]

I have always been a Weis supporter, and yes, he cannot be blamed for missed field goals, fumbles and interceptions in the red zone.

But think about this. For 43 years we beat Navy, with great coachs, average coaches, and bad coaches. But somehow 2 of the last 3 years, we have lost. Can someone explain that? Because right now I cant.

 

[ojo_223]

Before you can fire the guy, you have to find out who would be available to coach in his place. I couldn't tell you, but I don't think that there is much out there. He will be here through at least next year, I think.

 

[kmoose]

I have always been a Weis supporter, and yes, he cannot be blamed for missed field goals, fumbles and interceptions in the red zone.

But think about this. For 43 years we beat Navy, with great coachs, average coaches, and bad coaches. But somehow 2 of the last 3 years, we have lost. Can someone explain that? Because right now I cant.

I'm not defending Weis, but is it possible that this is a result of Navy getting better, instead of it being ALL about ND getting that much worse?

 

[a.van2eman]

charlie cant win the big game........think about it, what legitimately big game has charlie weis won since coming to south bend? ( i cant think of any, tell me if im wrong) also, he loses the games he's suppose to win........today was a classic example

 

[phork]

I'm not defending Weis, but is it possible that this is a result of Navy getting better, instead of it being ALL about ND getting that much worse?

Its probably a little of both, but its Navy still.

 

[ojo_223]

I'm not defending Weis, but is it possible that this is a result of Navy getting better, instead of it being ALL about ND getting that much worse?

I don't think so. Nevada runs a similar offense and the D shut them out. Charlie is coaching like this is the NFL and he can afford to lose a game or two. There is no excuse for playing down to the competition. Navy is better, true. They have nowhere near the talent that the Irish have, however. It is an unacceptable loss, plain and simple.

 

[kmoose]

I don't think so. Nevada runs a similar offense and the D shut them out. Charlie is coaching like this is the NFL and he can afford to lose a game or two. There is no excuse for playing down to the competition. Navy is better, true. They have nowhere near the talent that the Irish have, however. It is an unacceptable loss, plain and simple.

Nevada runs a pistol, which is NOTHING like the triple option.

 

[ojo_223]

Nevada runs a pistol, which is NOTHING like the triple option.

Fair enough. They had good backs, arguably better than Navy. Weis had all offseason to prepare for that one as well, which is another point you could make. My point is that they were flat, looking past Navy, and were not prepared. If Weis would have gone over the negatives from the Washington ST. game and had this D fired up, the result could have been different. Navy has nowhere near the talent that we have. The DO, however, have more heart I would say. We didn't show any heart until the 4th quarter. There is no excuse for that. This SHOULD have been a twenty point win, but once again this team played down to the competition.

 

[kmoose]

Fair enough. They had good backs, arguably better than Navy. Weis had all offseason to prepare for that one as well, which is another point you could make. My point is that they were flat, looking past Navy, and were not prepared. If Weis would have gone over the negatives from the Washington ST. game and had this D fired up, the result could have been different. Navy has nowhere near the talent that we have. The DO, however, have more heart I would say. We didn't show any heart until the 4th quarter. There is no excuse for that. This SHOULD have been a twenty point win, but once again this team played down to the competition.

I agree that this game should have been a comfortable victory for ND. But every team, every year, has that "one game", where nothing works for them. For our offense, that day was today. I still think we should have been able to win on just talent alone. But we have to understand...........this defense is mediocre, at best. Hard to win a game, with a mediocre defense and an offense that is backfiring all over the place.

 

[ojo_223]

Temple beat Navy. Think about that for a second. We woke up in the fourth quarter, but should have played better from the get go. Navy only got 7 points in the second half, discounting the safety. The D stepped up, too little too late.

 

[timm3117]

Personally I will wait until the season is over to voice if I think Charlie should be fired. We could win all 3 and a bowl, or go 0-3 who knows. But for the people who blindly dismiss anything negative about Charlie here are some facts.

We are
2-3 against Michigan with 2 Blowout losses
0-5 against USC with 3 Blowout losses
2-3 against Michigan St
1-2 against B.C.
3-2 against Navy
1-2 in Bowl games 2 blowout losses

Charlie's record 35-24, 14 of the 24 losses have been by 14 or more points including 2 38-0 losses.

 

[Riddickulous]

A good point brought up by ND-Jamotive, an Irish poster on the Rivals boards:

0-5 vs USC (3 20+ point blowouts)
2-3 vs UM (2 25+ point blowouts)
3-9 season (most losses in school history)
8 losses by 20 or more points (Ty had 8)
30 point loss to a 5-7 team (GT in '07)
2 losses to Navy in 5 years (41 straight wins prior to his hire)
17 point loss to an 8 win Air Force team
Loss at home to a 2 win Syracuse (first ever loss to a 2 win team in ND history)
Produced the worst rushing attack in ND history (2007)
Defenses that have ranked nationally: #75, #65, #39, #39, and #83
The worst offense (#119) in college football in 2007
1 win vs a team who finished the season ranked (2006 vs #24 PSU)
8-19 vs teams with winning records (will get worse after this season is completed)
First 0-5 start in ND history

I'll add on:

The worst two year stretch in Irish history (10-15)

 

[phork]

Its the youth.

 

[ojo_223]

A good point brought up by ND-Jamotive, an Irish poster on the Rivals boards:

0-5 vs USC (3 20+ point blowouts)
2-3 vs UM (2 25+ point blowouts)
3-9 season (most losses in school history)
8 losses by 20 or more points (Ty had 8)
30 point loss to a 5-7 team (GT in '07)
2 losses to Navy in 5 years (41 straight wins prior to his hire)
17 point loss to an 8 win Air Force team
Loss at home to a 2 win Syracuse (first ever loss to a 2 win team in ND history)
Produced the worst rushing attack in ND history (2007)
Defenses that have ranked nationally: #75, #65, #39, #39, and #83
The worst offense (#119) in college football in 2007
1 win vs a team who finished the season ranked (2006 vs #24 PSU)
8-19 vs teams with winning records (will get worse after this season is completed)
First 0-5 start in ND history

I'll add on:

The worst two year stretch in Irish history (10-15)

Pretty grim, but if he is fired at the end of the season, I think you can kiss Jimmy and Golden good bye as well. Though they may go pro regardless.

 

[Riddickulous]

Pretty grim, but if he is fired at the end of the season, I think you can kiss Jimmy and Golden good bye as well. Though they may go pro regardless.

Even with Jimmy and Golden, the ceiling for the Irish would be a 9-10 win season and a BCS bowl in 2010.

 

[Rudy89]

Im not defending him but who would we hire that would bring any upside? At least he brings recruits rememeber when we fired TY and Urban wouldnt take the job. Damned if we do damned if we dont

 

[Junkhead]

1 win vs a team who finished the season ranked (2006 vs #24 PSU)
8-19 vs teams with winning records (will get worse after this season is completed)

That is sobering. Until today, the team seemed to be improving, but I can't help but feel like ND is doing less with their talent than most teams. (outside of Clausen, Tate, Floyd)

 

[phork]

Im not defending him but who would we hire that would bring any upside? At least he brings recruits rememeber when we fired TY and Urban wouldnt take the job. Damned if we do damned if we dont

What are you afraid of? The continued home losing streak to Navy? Urban wouldn't take the job because he knew the cupboard was bare.