Can't Get Rid Of That Sick Feeling...

[CurtisCandy]

in my stomach created by the officials in the Michigan game.

I know it's ridiculous to still be holding onto this, but I'm still PISSED OFF about the officiating in that game! The BS holding call that negated Rudolph's big gainer is bad enough, but how - outside of something underhanded - do you possibly miss a call on replay?!

Like all you guys, Notre Dame football is a HUGE priority in my life. Given that, it's hard enough to accept our sub-par play over the past few seasons, but I can't justify having to feel like this because of officials who are either cheating, incompetent or simply mentally challenged.

I have never bitched and whined about officiating before - I even grudgingly kept my mouth shut after the Bush Push - but this time I can't get past it.

I may be heading for therapy!

 

[no.1IrishFan]

For me that loss was the most heartbreaking loss of the CW era. The Bush push was very hard for me to but to be honest I can give you several reasons why that USC team should have beat us then. I'm still trying to find a reason(other than officiating) why that young, inexperienced Michigan team with a 2nd year coach with players that don't fit his system beat us.

 

[BGIF]

For me that loss was the most heartbreaking loss of the CW era. The Bush push was very hard for me to but to be honest I can give you several reasons why that USC team should have beat us then. I'm still trying to find a reason(other than officiating) why that young, inexperienced Michigan team with a 2nd year coach with players that don't fit his system beat us.

phork will give you 11 reasons. More if you count coaches.

 

[BGIF]

in my stomach created by the officials in the Michigan game.

I know it's ridiculous to still be holding onto this, but I'm still PISSED OFF about the officiating in that game! The BS holding call that negated Rudolph's big gainer is bad enough, but how - outside of something underhanded - do you possibly miss a call on replay?!

Like all you guys, Notre Dame football is a HUGE priority in my life. Given that, it's hard enough to accept our sub-par play over the past few seasons, but I can't justify having to feel like this because of officials who are either cheating, incompetent or simply mentally challenged.

I have never bitched and whined about officiating before - I even grudgingly kept my mouth shut after the Bush Push - but this time I can't get past it.

I may be heading for therapy!

When you get there, give our regards to ClausentoFloyd!

 

[nlroma1o]

in my stomach created by the officials in the Michigan game.

I know it's ridiculous to still be holding onto this, but I'm still PISSED OFF about the officiating in that game! The BS holding call that negated Rudolph's big gainer is bad enough, but how - outside of something underhanded - do you possibly miss a call on replay?!

Like all you guys, Notre Dame football is a HUGE priority in my life. Given that, it's hard enough to accept our sub-par play over the past few seasons, but I can't justify having to feel like this because of officials who are either cheating, incompetent or simply mentally challenged.

I have never bitched and whined about officiating before - I even grudgingly kept my mouth shut after the Bush Push - but this time I can't get past it.

I may be heading for therapy!

Thank God I'm not the only one that still cringes every time the thought comes to mind. Every time I hear the name Forcier I can feel my blood pressure start to rise (I'm only 21 btw) and I think I'm about to either punch something or throw up. And to make matters worse my fucking girlfriend goes to scUM and I have a daily reminder that the team I LIVE AND DIE by lost to a team of misfits who wanted and needed to prove something that Saturday... I think the only thing and I mean the ONLY prescription for my pain is for scUM to start losing. I know it doesn't make us look good but I don't care. I hope they lose 3 in a row to MSU, Iowa, and PSU!!! I'm gonna be the biggest Sparty, Hawkeye, Nittany Lions fan who ever wore a Zibby jersey those 3 weeks. GO IRISH!!!

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

...and I think I'm about to either punch something or throw up.

NeuteredDoomer likes to punch puppies. Then he eats Cracker Jacks (prize inside).

 

[WaveDomer]

There were some bad calls, but at the same time, Notre Dame should have put that game away by halftime. I'm seeing a lot of improvement and I like it. We are a good team, just not a great team, yet. I still think we're learning how to win. AA is running the ball tough. JC is tough and throwing a great ball. The line is holding up and creating lanes. Those are the few examples. Throwing the ball late in the UM game was a serious mistake, especially since AA was gaining on the ground. Our D needs to buck up and get better coverage and tackle. Golden needs to hold onto the ball and let his play do the talking. But all in all, we are a much improved team and will be in every single game this year. Is being "good" and not "great" acceptable to me? Well... what choice do I have. I enjoy what I've got. Plus, USC lost to Washington. How great is that?

 

[kmoose]

in my stomach created by the officials in the Michigan game.

I know it's ridiculous to still be holding onto this, but I'm still PISSED OFF about the officiating in that game! The BS holding call that negated Rudolph's big gainer is bad enough, but how - outside of something underhanded - do you possibly miss a call on replay?!

Like all you guys, Notre Dame football is a HUGE priority in my life. Given that, it's hard enough to accept our sub-par play over the past few seasons, but I can't justify having to feel like this because of officials who are either cheating, incompetent or simply mentally challenged.

I have never bitched and whined about officiating before - I even grudgingly kept my mouth shut after the Bush Push - but this time I can't get past it.

I may be heading for therapy!

In reference to the holding call..........on replay, it was obvious it was not a hold. But do you really think it was as obvious, in real time, out of the corner of the official's eye? Even Charlie said he could understand how that flag got thrown. I'm not sure which replay call you are talking about, but if it is the Armando Allen touchdown......... You can CLEARLY see, from the WUND camera angle, that Allen was out of bounds. I have seen one photo that APPEARS to show that he did not step out. The problem with that photo is this: His toes never touched the line, his heel did. This was blantantly obvious, in the WUND footage. It's not up for debate. If you look at the popular photo circulating around ND fansites, that APPEARS to show that he was in; in that photo, Allen's heel is still off of the ground. His heel has not come down yet. So it's very possible that the replay clearly showed his heel come down on the line. If you take the push down of Michael Floyd as it's own play, then no one is complaining too loudly about the no call. "Was it bush league?" "Sure." Was it a 15 yard penalty? "Meh! Maybe." The problem with the no call is the subsequent call on Armando Allen, for taunting. Again.......if you take that play on it's own.... you might argue that it was a cheap call, but no one would be accusing the officials of trying to throw game. The thing is, the two calls (or one call and one no-call) were made by two different officials. As much as we might like it to be otherwise; the officials each have their own judgement of what is unsportsmanlike conduct/taunting, and what is not. Even with the poor calls, ND still had plenty of opportunity to win the game. They still controlled their own destiny.

 

[irish4ever]

I may be heading for therapy!

It can be found at the nearest bar/pub!

 

[TDHeysus]

the fact that nationwide attention was paid to the officiating in the michigan is enough for me to know that most ppl, even ND haters (tho they will not admit) saw the officiating in that game as suspect.There were links on MSN concerning the officiating, that tells me iot reached a LARGE audience.

Reasons for sick feelings currently in my stomach:

Floyd's injury
Clausens injury (more of a an uneasy feeling...)
Anti Weis attitudes (from ND ppl; I could give a f*ck what other non-ND ppl/programs think about Weis)


When I see an anti-weis rehashed/recycled cracks from ND ppl, I either get incensed enough to fire off a rebuttal, or I just get fed up with it and click off IE.

 

[BGIF]

the fact that nationwide attention was paid to the officiating in the michigan is enough for me to know that most ppl, even ND haters (tho they will not admit) saw the officiating in that game as suspect.There were links on MSN concerning the officiating, that tells me iot reached a LARGE audience.

Reasons for sick feelings currently in my stomach:

Floyd's injury
Clausens injury (more of a an uneasy feeling...)
Anti Weis attitudes (from ND ppl; I could give a f*ck what other non-ND ppl/programs think about Weis)


When I see an anti-weis rehashed/recycled cracks from ND ppl, I either get incensed enough to fire off a rebuttal, or I just get fed up with it and click off IE.

Jimmy's got a turf toe. Details in GameDay thread.

His play might be effected but he threw well the day he got injured.

 

[Riddickulous]

When you get there, give our regards to ClausentoFloyd!

He's only going to therapy. I'm in a mental institution.

 

[irishtrain]

mich

mich

They were hosed plain and simple. From now on its on with any 'little 11' team and that goes 'primo' for mich. You can justify all you want but the whole compilation says 'bad' aroma to me. Just get by this game and next week and be 4-1 when SC gets to South Bend. I'm telling everyone they're going to play out of their mind against SC, and that break we have'nt been getting is going to bounce our way on Oct 17.

 

[TDHeysus]

He's only going to therapy. I'm in a mental institution.

hahaha...

 

[CurtisCandy]

In reference to the holding call..........on replay, it was obvious it was not a hold. But do you really think it was as obvious, in real time, out of the corner of the official's eye? Even Charlie said he could understand how that flag got thrown. I'm not sure which replay call you are talking about, but if it is the Armando Allen touchdown......... You can CLEARLY see, from the WUND camera angle, that Allen was out of bounds. I have seen one photo that APPEARS to show that he did not step out. The problem with that photo is this: His toes never touched the line, his heel did. This was blantantly obvious, in the WUND footage. It's not up for debate. If you look at the popular photo circulating around ND fansites, that APPEARS to show that he was in; in that photo, Allen's heel is still off of the ground. His heel has not come down yet. So it's very possible that the replay clearly showed his heel come down on the line. If you take the push down of Michael Floyd as it's own play, then no one is complaining too loudly about the no call. "Was it bush league?" "Sure." Was it a 15 yard penalty? "Meh! Maybe." The problem with the no call is the subsequent call on Armando Allen, for taunting. Again.......if you take that play on it's own.... you might argue that it was a cheap call, but no one would be accusing the officials of trying to throw game. The thing is, the two calls (or one call and one no-call) were made by two different officials. As much as we might like it to be otherwise; the officials each have their own judgement of what is unsportsmanlike conduct/taunting, and what is not. Even with the poor calls, ND still had plenty of opportunity to win the game. They still controlled their own destiny.

The holding call could easily have been a mistake; no doubt. It doesn't make it any more palatable.

As far as AA stepping out, I haven't seen the photo of which you speak, nor does it matter. The officials on the field did not have still photos, they had the broadcast camera angles. We all saw those angles, and it CLEARLY appeared that he didn't step out. The issue is, the call was originally touchdown. There is supposed to be overwhelming video evidence to overturn that call. There is NO WAY that indisputable evidence was presented from those video clips!

As far as I'm concerned, overtruning that call, with no solid evidence at all that the original call was erroneous, completely smacks of impropriety.

As I mentioned, I was never vocal about the Bush Push because I can understand how, in that scrum at the goal line, officials could have missed the shove. I don't believe - and never will - that there was indisputable evidence, or evidence of any sort, available to those officials to overturn that call in the Michigan game.

The Irish absolutely had plenty of opportunity to win that game. However, that does nothing to justify officiating that was blatantly bad and -in my opinion - likely biased.

 

[CurtisCandy]

He's only going to therapy. I'm in a mental institution.

I'm sure I'll be there shortly... How's the food and sleeping arrangements?

 

[kmoose]

The holding call could easily have been a mistake; no doubt. It doesn't make it any more palatable.

As far as AA stepping out, I haven't seen the photo of which you speak, nor does it matter. The officials on the field did not have still photos, they had the broadcast camera angles. We all saw those angles, and it CLEARLY appeared that he didn't step out. The issue is, the call was originally touchdown. There is supposed to be overwhelming video evidence to overturn that call. There is NO WAY that indisputable evidence was presented from those video clips!

As far as I'm concerned, overtruning that call, with no solid evidence at all that the original call was erroneous, completely smacks of impropriety.

As I mentioned, I was never vocal about the Bush Push because I can understand how, in that scrum at the goal line, officials could have missed the shove. I don't believe - and never will - that there was indisputable evidence, or evidence of any sort, available to those officials to overturn that call in the Michigan game.

The Irish absolutely had plenty of opportunity to win that game. However, that does nothing to justify officiating that was blatantly bad and -in my opinion - likely biased.

The one thing that I mentioned, after the game, that we don't know. I saw the replays, and I agree.............there was no way to tell if he did, or didn't, step on the line. But what we don't know, because none of the media outlets have bothered to INFORM us, as they should be doing............The NFL replay officials can manipulate the TV feed, to blow up just one section of the video. They particularly use this on sideline calls. NBC shows it, and calls it NBSeeIt. IF the replay officials had that ability, in the booth, then it's possible that they DID see clear evidence. I have no idea if this was the case or not. All I know is that it IS possible that there WAS clear evidence, and we just didn't see the same thing that the replay officials did.

 

[CurtisCandy]

The one thing that I mentioned, after the game, that we don't know. I saw the replays, and I agree.............there was no way to tell if he did, or didn't, step on the line. But what we don't know, because none of the media outlets have bothered to INFORM us, as they should be doing............The NFL replay officials can manipulate the TV feed, to blow up just one section of the video. They particularly use this on sideline calls. NBC shows it, and calls it NBSeeIt. IF the replay officials had that ability, in the booth, then it's possible that they DID see clear evidence. I have no idea if this was the case or not. All I know is that it IS possible that there WAS clear evidence, and we just didn't see the same thing that the replay officials did.

Completely agree on the lack of information we get on a lot of issues that pertain to officiating in general.

My gripe is, when NBC blew up the shot for all of us to see, it looked as if his foot was definitely inbounds. I find it hard to believe that the officials had a better selection of shots to choose from than the network covering the game. If we did find out that they actually had some shot that we didn't have acces to, and that frame showed clear, indisputable evidence, I will take back everything I said and post an apology thread...

I just don't see that being the case.

 

[JefMaj]

Confused? I came in late.. NBC? AA out of bounds? Replay? Game was on ABC wasn't it? Are you talking about the WNDU photo?

 

[midwestguy]

I know it's ridiculous to still be holding onto this

Correct. It is ridiculous.

 

[phork]

phork will give you 11 reasons. More if you count coaches.

I really don't know what you are referring to. I have 1 reason of several, in my opinion, that why ND lost that game. No need to rehash here. And frankly I apologize to you if saying that Charlie makes a great offensive coordinator. I have never called him fat or any other name in the book. Just because I don't drink from the same fountain as you do, doesn't mean I can't have an opinion. Yes I am aware that opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink.

 

[Seanthornton]

Think you guys have problems? I live in a neighborhood full of brain dead Buckeye fans and a Mich Wolverine fan down the street. I burned a Buckeye flag in my yard a week ago celebrating there loss to USC. I took so much crap for the Mich loss, i invited another Irish fan over and killed a 12pk of Smithwicks and burned the Buckeye flag . THAT WAS THERAPY !!!

Ps. It felt great ! My neighbor is still looking for his flag LMAO !!!



Keep the faith !!

GO IRISH !!

 

[kmoose]

Confused? I came in late.. NBC? AA out of bounds? Replay? Game was on ABC wasn't it? Are you talking about the WNDU photo?

I was referring to NBC's system for the NFL. I don't recall ABC showing a blown up view of Allen's foot along the sidelines.

On the subject of the photo..............I have only seen one photo. In that photo, only the toe of Allen's shoe is on the ground. The WNDU replay clearly showed that it was his heel which hit the stripe. So I can understand why people who have only seen the photo would question how anyone could call him out of bounds. But those same people, if they watched the WNDU footage, would realize that the photo they saw was snapped just a moment BEFORE Allen's heel came down on the stripe.

 

[Dizzyphil]

in my stomach created by the officials in the Michigan game.

I know it's ridiculous to still be holding onto this, but I'm still PISSED OFF about the officiating in that game! The BS holding call that negated Rudolph's big gainer is bad enough, but how - outside of something underhanded - do you possibly miss a call on replay?!

Like all you guys, Notre Dame football is a HUGE priority in my life. Given that, it's hard enough to accept our sub-par play over the past few seasons, but I can't justify having to feel like this because of officials who are either cheating, incompetent or simply mentally challenged.

I have never bitched and whined about officiating before - I even grudgingly kept my mouth shut after the Bush Push - but this time I can't get past it.

I may be heading for therapy!

Since you brought this back up, I am going to reveal something that might really piss a lot of people off in this forum. I went to high school (graduated in '85) with a guy who is working his way to be an NFL referee. I am a high school referee in Soccer and I move the chains in High School football. I was miffed at the calls in the game. First and Foremost!!!!! He does not favor any college football team, he is pro the whole way. With that said, I tvo'd the game because I was in Biloxi over the weekend. He watched the plays that I thought were in question, primarily the hold and the pass interference on Tate with 3 minutes left to go. He said the hold was questionable on Rudy's pass play. He said there was a hold on ND on First down on our last offensive series when the Michigan coaches were on the field. But, he said he can guarantee that the interference not called on Tate (which was blatant interference) was probably a make-up call for the non-holding call on ND. That same line judge would have been the one to call the holding because it was on his side about a yard behind the line of scrimmage. He finally watched most of the game with me and said he would have given the refs a D-. He really flipped a rod when the excessive celebration call was made. The (sshhhh) gesture was not made to any other opposing member of the Michigan team. No player was within 10 yards of him. He also said the step out of bounds was controversial. There must have been a different angle in the booth than what was shown on TV. He said he really can't comment on that one because tv viewers do not see certain camera shots especially if there is a local station there running cameras that are not allowed on national syndication.

Now I am letting it go, I got this off my chest. Let's beat Purdue. Go Irish!!

 

[CurtisCandy]

Since you brought this back up, I am going to reveal something that might really piss a lot of people off in this forum. I went to high school (graduated in '85) with a guy who is working his way to be an NFL referee. I am a high school referee in Soccer and I move the chains in High School football. I was miffed at the calls in the game. First and Foremost!!!!! He does not favor any college football team, he is pro the whole way. With that said, I tvo'd the game because I was in Biloxi over the weekend. He watched the plays that I thought were in question, primarily the hold and the pass interference on Tate with 3 minutes left to go. He said the hold was questionable on Rudy's pass play. He said there was a hold on ND on First down on our last offensive series when the Michigan coaches were on the field. But, he said he can guarantee that the interference not called on Tate (which was blatant interference) was probably a make-up call for the non-holding call on ND. That same line judge would have been the one to call the holding because it was on his side about a yard behind the line of scrimmage. He finally watched most of the game with me and said he would have given the refs a D-. He really flipped a rod when the excessive celebration call was made. The (sshhhh) gesture was not made to any other opposing member of the Michigan team. No player was within 10 yards of him. He also said the step out of bounds was controversial. There must have been a different angle in the booth than what was shown on TV. He said he really can't comment on that one because tv viewers do not see certain camera shots especially if there is a local station there running cameras that are not allowed on national syndication.

Now I am letting it go, I got this off my chest. Let's beat Purdue. Go Irish!!

Cool insight, Dizzyphil.

Like kmoose said earlier, I wonder why the public isn't made privy to how the mechanics of a controversial call work. You'd think when something is as controversial as this play, the powers that be would let us know if the officials had camera angles other than what we see.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Cool insight, Dizzyphil.

Like kmoose said earlier, I wonder why the public isn't made privy to how the mechanics of a controversial call work. You'd think when something is as controversial as this play, the powers that be would let us know if the officials had camera angles other than what we see.

Look at it from my point of view, if you will. I referee high school soccer. There are some plays that I miss. I am human. I try, very hard, not to do a "make-up call"... I have done it, everyone has even "scott" the referee I told you about earlier. As he said, if Tate was on the ND side, the call may have been made, also though, it would have been seen with different referee eyes just as the missed ND o-line hold. It was blatant as he said. Purely a make-up call. I coach as well and I always tell my kids that a referee can and will never decide the outcome of a game. The ref's did not create the holes for Forcier. Our defense was porous against his scrambling. Without Forcier, we beat Michigan, in my opinion. ( still no excuse to the continuous bad calls in the game, why not, I am a homer for ND

As far as the replay privy to the public, we can only see what the network will allow. It will always be that way. Scott says the enhancement capabilities the officials have in the booth would be so blurry after transmission to our tvs, it would be unnoticeable. I find that hard to believe with HD technology but, I trust "scott's" opinion.

Even with all that said, we lost and need to move on. Like you, I am still upset, I will put my big boy panties on and move on. ( don't say a f*@king word Neutered!!!)

Diz

 

[CurtisCandy]

I hear ya regarding make-up calls. For me, it was baseball. I umped for a lot of years. And you're right, when you realize you blew one, it's hard not to lean the other way on the next close one.

I remember calling a game back in the early 80s when I lived in California. A kid on one of the local teams was a great catcher and had several scouts checking him out. In an all-star game with a lot of scouts in the seats, he came up in a criitical time in the game with the bases loaded. He worked the count full and the pitcher broke off a beautiful curveball on the full count.

The pitch was close, but it caught the corner, and this kid, Gary, was looking fastball. I called him out on strikes and was trying to yank the words back into my mouth as soon as I said them. In my opinion, it was a strike, but it was borderline and if I was a quicker thinker I would have called it a ball so my friend didn't look bad in front of the scouts.

Probably not what I should have done, but it was a moot point because you get so used to watching the pitch and immediately calling what you see, it becomes reflex.

I'm not bright enough to even cheat properly.

 

[phgreek]

The holding call could easily have been a mistake; no doubt. It doesn't make it any more palatable.

As far as AA stepping out, I haven't seen the photo of which you speak, nor does it matter. The officials on the field did not have still photos, they had the broadcast camera angles. We all saw those angles, and it CLEARLY appeared that he didn't step out. The issue is, the call was originally touchdown. There is supposed to be overwhelming video evidence to overturn that call. There is NO WAY that indisputable evidence was presented from those video clips!

As far as I'm concerned, overtruning that call, with no solid evidence at all that the original call was erroneous, completely smacks of impropriety.

As I mentioned, I was never vocal about the Bush Push because I can understand how, in that scrum at the goal line, officials could have missed the shove. I don't believe - and never will - that there was indisputable evidence, or evidence of any sort, available to those officials to overturn that call in the Michigan game.

The Irish absolutely had plenty of opportunity to win that game. However, that does nothing to justify officiating that was blatantly bad and -in my opinion - likely biased.

Nicely done...especially the AA run...impropriety indeed...(5 point word...awesome)everybody needs to understand...very clearly (so I'm typing slowly)...replay booth officials have no more, or higher res views than you...the viewing audience...I defy ANYONE to tell me you could determine from the televised shots, you had what you needed to overturn the guy on the field...what the angles do show, is the guy on the field was right freaking there...the big 10 booth guys are frauds, and they should hang for it. It is my quest to get every one of them fired...naaa not really, but if feels good to say it...try it!

Now, that said, we "should" have won...not gonna say "could" have there Charlie...we should have won regardless of the big ten officials' chicanery...

 

[phgreek]

Since you brought this back up, I am going to reveal something that might really piss a lot of people off in this forum. I went to high school (graduated in '85) with a guy who is working his way to be an NFL referee. I am a high school referee in Soccer and I move the chains in High School football. I was miffed at the calls in the game. First and Foremost!!!!! He does not favor any college football team, he is pro the whole way. With that said, I tvo'd the game because I was in Biloxi over the weekend. He watched the plays that I thought were in question, primarily the hold and the pass interference on Tate with 3 minutes left to go. He said the hold was questionable on Rudy's pass play. He said there was a hold on ND on First down on our last offensive series when the Michigan coaches were on the field. But, he said he can guarantee that the interference not called on Tate (which was blatant interference) was probably a make-up call for the non-holding call on ND. That same line judge would have been the one to call the holding because it was on his side about a yard behind the line of scrimmage. He finally watched most of the game with me and said he would have given the refs a D-. He really flipped a rod when the excessive celebration call was made. The (sshhhh) gesture was not made to any other opposing member of the Michigan team. No player was within 10 yards of him. He also said the step out of bounds was controversial. There must have been a different angle in the booth than what was shown on TV. He said he really can't comment on that one because tv viewers do not see certain camera shots especially if there is a local station there running cameras that are not allowed on national syndication.

Now I am letting it go, I got this off my chest. Let's beat Purdue. Go Irish!!

Wow...maybe I'm wrong, so I'll talk slowly to myself...seriously though guys...the way it works, there is no time to get another camera angle to the replay booth beyond what the network has...its just not feasible based on time...and it has been covered significantly in the sports media, and they say the same thing...if this is a new development, or they did something special at Michigan, i stand corrected. However, why wouldn't the big 10 come out with it if there were indeed the "zapruder" film they used to make the call?

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

I will put my big boy panties on and move on. ( don't say a f*@king word Neutered!!!)

Diz