Weis didn't call a "fade"

[irishfan]

Q. I think he could have caught it. Some people might say short pass might be better.

COACH WEIS: That was a short pass that was adjusted based on the coverage, just so you know. If they play off, it's a short pass. If they play press, he adjusts. That's what he did.

This is a question about the call on 2nd and 10 to Tate with 2 mins ledt that many here were referring to as a "fade." Weis runs an NFL offense. There's going to be plays were the receiver will adjust his routes based on the coverage and the quarterback has to realize that adjustment. This was one of those. Didn't know what thread to put this in considering there were about 8 different ones where people complained about this call so here.

 

[phork]

Well thats nice to know. How many time outs did it cost Michigan?

 

[notredomer23]

Well thats nice to know. How many time outs did it cost Michigan?

you wanna stop being an ass every chance you get to post?

 

[phork]

Nah, its my MO.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

lol

 

[WabashFalcon]

I concure with the deer. It is kinda funny.

 

[WeisWeisBaby]

Your MO sucks.

 

[JughedJones]

there really is no excuse. It should have been run, run, run.

We were doing a great job dominating their D-line, AA was looking great. No need for any kind of a pass.

I'm really pissed. That's just coaching 101.

 

[Irish4Life09]

I at first agreed,but after realizing that AA was hurt,we had to pass on that last drive.we couldn't depend on our other) and they hadn't stopped us with the pass all day.I think that they shouldve gone to Rudolph over the middle though.

 

[Senoj13]

I want everyone to be honest when they answer this question. On 2nd down and 10, I believe there was 2:29 left. Lets say they ran Hughes up the middle for a gain of 1. Michigan calls TO. Now, there is about 2:24 left. On 3rd and 9, Hughes runs off tackle for no gain. Michican calls TO. Now, there is about 2:19 left. Maust now punts 28 yards to the Michigan 40 with 2:10 left.

Michigan then drives the length of the field and scores with :11 seconds left. What do we complain about then? That the defense did not get a stop when it was needed, or that Weis has no balls and ran up the middle 3 straight times.

Be honest.

 

[NeuteredDoomer]

.

 

[phork]

I want everyone to be honest when they answer this question. On 2nd down and 10, I believe there was 2:29 left. Lets say they ran Hughes up the middle for a gain of 1. Michigan calls TO. Now, there is about 2:24 left. On 3rd and 9, Hughes runs off tackle for no gain. Michican calls TO. Now, there is about 2:19 left. Maust now punts 28 yards to the Michigan 40 with 2:10 left.

Michigan then drives the length of the field and scores with :11 seconds left. What do we complain about then? That the defense did not get a stop when it was needed, or that Weis has no balls and ran up the middle 3 straight times.

Be honest.

You forgot the part about it being harder now that they have no timeouts. Or you forgot the better case scenarios where they might actually get a few yards. or maybe make a first down. The result was the same, 4th and 10 and a 28 yard punt, except Michigan had 2 timeouts to use.

 

[GO IRISH!!!]

Gotta agree with phork. We run - it kills their timeouts. Maybe we even get a few yards. When I was outside with the septic tank guy and my wife came out to tell me the Irish threw twice on that possession, I was shocked. Run, run, run. I know they were expecting the run and had just about everyone in the box, but the equipment manager, but I think you still run in that situation. Keep the clock moving and make them use their TO's. I am still shaking my head.

 

[phork]

When the opposing team is thanking you for throwing it, and when everyone else in the country is scratching their heads... Just makes you go hmmmm...

 

[Shamrock44]

I have always supported Charlie, but you just have to run the ball in that situation. I think we could have got the first down, but if not- at least they burn their timeouts. I can't stop thinking about it.

 

[Madknute]

Screen is a reason call here with AA out. Safe pass and keep the clock running.

 

[jason_h537]

I bet if i go back to last year and read the North Carolina, Pitt and Syracuse threads i will read alot of posts about how Weis has no guts and just wants to kill the clock with a weak running game. Is the change of heart because the team lost or something else? and please explain the difference

 

[irishfan]

end around to tate woulda been nice on 2nd down

 

[phork]

I bet if i go back to last year and read the North Carolina, Pitt and Syracuse threads i will read alot of posts about how Weis has no guts and just wants to kill the clock with a weak running game. Is the change of heart because the team lost or something else? and please explain the difference

The difference here is that ND didn't have a double digit lead and blow it. Thats the difference. There is a time to be conservative, and then there is NDs bermuda triangle missing 3 quarter play.

 

[jason_h537]

The difference here is that ND didn't have a double digit lead and blow it. Thats the difference. There is a time to be conservative, and then there is NDs bermuda triangle missing 3 quarter play.

No the only difference is that the play didn't work.

Some teams get the breaks and we didnt

05 the Bush-push. People forget that a field goal would have led to overtime, was that a bad call

07 Les Miles decides to go deep against Auburn with 3 seconds left in the game intead of a feild goal and LSU scores with no time left on the clock. Was that bad call?

Was that bad game management?

But people forget our last drives against UCLA in 06 and Stanford in 05. was Weis a bad game manager then?

 

[Senoj13]

My question had a lot of "what ifs" in it, but I wanted a response to what the thought process would be if all of the things I mentioned had happened. Where would we be placing the blame? Still Weis? Tenuta? The players?

 

[jason_h537]

My question had a lot of "what ifs" in it, but I wanted a response to what the thought process would be if all of the things I mentioned had happened. Where would we be placing the blame? Still Weis? Tenuta? The players?

Regardless of what calls were made. Al oss would bring up the Fie Weis campaign.

 

[phgreek]

My question had a lot of "what ifs" in it, but I wanted a response to what the thought process would be if all of the things I mentioned had happened. Where would we be placing the blame? Still Weis? Tenuta? The players?

Tough call...my thought was that Forcier killed us because of the threat to run...we burn his timeouts, and he becomes more one dimensional, needing to pass (at least more than he did having 2 TOs).

That said its on Tenuta to know the kid is in a bad spot, and pick the D to shut him down...I believe he goes Nickel, w reasonable pressure from the D-line, and we win the game...he continues blitzorama, we still lose or tie and go to OT.

At that point its on Tenuta to close it out...but you can't leave the team completely out...they get some too if Charlie forces Forcier to abandon a part of his game by burning up his TOs, and they fail to stop him when he is forced to strictly throw it...its on them...

there ya go...clear as mud?

 

[Senoj13]

I think Charlie's mindset was that the he the only way to win the game was to keep the offense on the field. He knew that if he gave them the ball back, they would probably score. And running up the middle guaranteed they would get the ball back.

 

[phork]

I think Charlie's mindset was that the he the only way to win the game was to keep the offense on the field. He knew that if he gave them the ball back, they would probably score. And running up the middle guaranteed they would get the ball back.

But as the previous poster suggested, without timeouts you become one dimensional.

 

[irishfan]

I think Charlie's mindset was that the he the only way to win the game was to keep the offense on the field. He knew that if he gave them the ball back, they would probably score. And running up the middle guaranteed they would get the ball back.

just like the ga tech game in 2006. and as herbstreit said then, "that's why recruits want to play for charlie weis"

we went for it on 4th and 1 to ice the game with 1:10 left

players like weis cause he has guts, fans should like him for the same reason

 

[kmoose]

But as the previous poster suggested, without timeouts you become one dimensional.

I don't necessarily agree, here. With a spread option offense, being in the two minute drill with no timeouts does not necessarily force them to throw on every down. Spread the field, and you can toss in a few QB draws. Especially when you have a kid that runs as well as Michigan's QB. He is a good enough runner to pick up that 10-15 yards a pop, and still get out of bounds to stop the clock.

 

[irish4ever]

I want everyone to be honest when they answer this question. On 2nd down and 10, I believe there was 2:29 left. Lets say they ran Hughes up the middle for a gain of 1. Michigan calls TO. Now, there is about 2:24 left. On 3rd and 9, Hughes runs off tackle for no gain. Michican calls TO. Now, there is about 2:19 left. Maust now punts 28 yards to the Michigan 40 with 2:10 left.

Michigan then drives the length of the field and scores with :11 seconds left. What do we complain about then? That the defense did not get a stop when it was needed, or that Weis has no balls and ran up the middle 3 straight times.

Be honest.

Once Weis committed to the pass on 2nd down and was incomplete, he had no choice but to pass on 3rd down.
Maust CHOKED on that last punt! 28 freakin yards!!! Can you believe that .... 28 freakin yards!!!

 

[TDHeysus]

just like the ga tech game in 2006. and as herbstreit said then, "that's why recruits want to play for charlie weis"

we went for it on 4th and 1 to ice the game with 1:10 left

players like weis cause he has guts, fans should like him for the same reason

CW has been aggressive in these situations in the past, his track record shows this. With AA injured and gassed, Gray already putting the ball on the field, and his passing game lights out (for 3 str8 games now) it was not unreasonable to throw on 2nd down. Not saying it is the best option, but considering the given scenario I think it was not a bad call. As mentioned, I would like to see a swing pass to the flat, more so than a screen. A screen is much more a complicated play, then just a simple swing pass the flat. There is some gray area here for sure, but the passing game has been lights out, unstoppable for 3 games now; why not dance with the girl you brought?

One problem is the pass looked like a fade, when JC threw it I thought he throwing that ball as if Floyd was out there and can just out-jump anyone for it. I thought JC forgot that Floyd was not out on the wing when he threw it (which was prolly NOT the case).

The call is debatable for sure, but not to the extreme point that CW's job hinges on it.

 

[TDHeysus]

Screen is a reason call here with AA out. Safe pass and keep the clock running.

end around to tate woulda been nice on 2nd down

a screen, would give opposing dline the possibility of a free crack at our QB at the end of the game.

an end around is long developing play, and great potential for loss of yardage

a simple swing pass to the flat is a safe play in that situation. In essence, a long hand-off.