Obama to speak at Notre Dame

[ACamp1900]

What the man said while speaking at ASU is troubling the hell out of me... it's no longer IS he a socialist?... it's now, is socialism the way to go for our country?... that much was made very clear... yet no one wants to talk about that...

funny we mention hypocrisy earlier


as far as ND?? He is the pres. either way... it's an honor... I'm not throwing a shoe at our President... it's a matter of respect regardless

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

I can't wait to watch the speech on TV! I'm glad ND invited our President to speak. Its a diverse university where people with many different viewpoints have a seat at the table. Look at Ryan Harris and Manti Teo. They wouldn't have chosen ND if the school was so closed minded. Go Irish!

 

[FrankMA]

I can't wait to watch the speech on TV! I'm glad ND invited our President to speak. Its a diverse university where people with many different viewpoints have a seat at the table. Look at Ryan Harris and Manti Teo. They wouldn't have chosen ND if the school was so closed minded. Go Irish!

Would ND have invited Adolf Hitler to speak at commencment in the name of diversity? So why now lower our moral compass in order to have a man who supports the American genocide (aportion) speak at the University?

 

[Quinntastic]

Would ND have invited Adolf Hitler to speak at commencment in the name of diversity? So why now lower our moral compass in order to have a man who supports the American genocide (aportion) speak at the University?

See? This is exactly the type of inflammatory statement I was talking about. You should be absolutely ashamed of yourself - I'm embarrassed for the whole human race when I encounter people like you.

 

[ACamp1900]

he's just speaking his mind... lets show some tolerance...



lol

 

[IrishAlum1997]

The hypocrisy of the religious right.

Because there is no hypocrisy from the tree-hugging left. It goes both ways. And I like how 'religious' now connotates fanatical cluelessness. I attend church, live my life by honoring God, and have conservative values. I must be crazy!!!

 

[ACamp1900]

Because there is no hypocrisy from the tree-hugging left. It goes both ways. And I like how 'religious' now connotates fanatical cluelessness. I attend church, live my life by honoring God, and have conservative values. I must be crazy!!!

now it's to the point where any time the words conservative or values are used in describing someone it's of a negative tone... stuff like this, among other obvious things, has turned me from a fanatical ECONOMIC conservative, who just happened to be liberal on most other issues,... to someone who is now proud to be called a Republican in most cases... In the past I always considered myself moderate in regards to the overall picture, just not the economy...

amazing how it's evolved over the past ten years... to think I voted for Gore

 

[Quinntastic]

The truth about abortions is this - even if they're outlawed, it's not going to stop them from occurring. Instead of girls being able to go to competent doctors who can do an abortion in a safe, sterile setting and keep an eye out for infections, etc - girls will be forced to resort to use coat hangers, etc and run the risk of some serious infections.

Being pro-choice isn't being pro-abortion (I'm against partial birth abortions, for what it's worth), being pro-choice is saying that it's none of the government's business what a woman does with her body - and that a scared young girl should be able to go to a doctor she trusts to have a serious medical procedure like that done instead of having to resort to metal coat hangers.

Outlawing abortions isn't going to stop them from happening - it's going to make it more dangerous to do so - which isn't in ANYONE'S best interest. Period.

 

[ACamp1900]

I agree... though that's not a valid reason to allow anything in our country... you can say makig rape illegal doesn't stop rapists... not comparing rapists to abortionists... just the logic that was used...

but the "it's a woman's body" is not the argument here... it's the killing or not killing of a young child... I find those on the left try to get away from that by making it a womens rights issue... yet that doesn't even begin to address the opposing argument at it's core... obviously that's the problem

right?

I will never agree with late term abortion,... but the debate as it was in it's beginning is another story... I see everyone's point there and tend to side with the left...

I will say this, this is now just one of a hundred issues (One both sides) that have come up over the past 40 years that just shows the complete lack of accountability this society wants for their actions... and more than any one issue, that is the most troubling to me... just a side thought that can be applied to a ton of things...

 

[jason_h537]

What the man said while speaking at ASU is troubling the hell out of me... it's no longer IS he a socialist?... it's now, is socialism the way to go for our country?... that much was made very clear... yet no one wants to talk about that...

That's funny because i thought he was talking about personal responsibility

 

[jason_h537]

Because there is no hypocrisy from the tree-hugging left. It goes both ways. And I like how 'religious' now connotates fanatical cluelessness. I attend church, live my life by honoring God, and have conservative values. I must be crazy!!!

Both sides are hypocritical, It is just pointed out more by the party which is not in power. When Republicans are in power it is American hatin liberals. You can look at the Pelosi controversy over torture. Or see how quickly the "tree huggin liberals" turned on Obama for not wanting to release the Guantanimo photo's

 

[Quinntastic]

Well this kind of sidles right in with my view on embryonic stem cell research - because embryonic stem cells are only allowed to be used up to 14 days. By the 14th day the embryo is a cluster of about 100 cells. You couldn't even see 100 cells without the use of a microscope. I'm sorry - but I refuse to see that as a life that's worth protecting. Call me a heartless bitch - I really don't care. That's kind of what my whole point is getting at here - you're never going to convince me that a clump of 100 cells no larger than the head of a pin is a life, just as I'm not going to convince you (or try) that a clump of 100 cells ISN'T a life.

It's just not that simple. And it's NEVER a case of black and white - especially when you get into these complex issues like abortion, stem cell research, etc. So why we spend all of our time pointing fingers, yelling, screaming at each other over these things? We're never going to convince the other side - it's a fundamental difference in thinking and beliefs - just saying, "What you think is wrong, you should think the way I think for reasons x, y and z" is not going to accomplish ANYTHING except spend our time spinning our wheels and stepping on soapboxes instead of doing more proactive things with our lives. If you don't agree with abortion - then spend the rest of your life going around the country educating people about abstinence and birth control - don't just bitch about it - that does NOTHING but waste time and energy.

 

[jason_h537]

Well in the eyes of the law, it is not an abortion issue, it is a privacy issue. There are no laws that can be passed by ANY President to overturn it because it is a Supreme Court decision. The only way to overturn it is to have it go in front of the court again. So even though it is a majority conservative Supreme Court, it still has not been overturned because it is deemed a personal choice. Personally i do not agree with abortion, but i do not believe that my personal belief or faith should determine the lives or decisions of others.

 

[MeanGreen]

Quintatics I could not agree with you more. not sure what angle FrankMA is playing. Comparing Obama or any support of abortion to Hilter is extreme. If you want to be extreme in your comparison Bush is closer to Hitler than Obama. Bush supports the death penalty, check his record as Texas govenor. He started a war and accepted torture as a means of interrogation.

As I stated in my other post, if Roe vs Wade ends tomorrow, we have a problem. metal hangers, Mexican clinics and back alley doctors will be the means to end an unwanted pregnancy. If we want to end abortion we need to educate Obama and the other supports to the alternatives. We need to educate the mass population of alternatives from abstinence to adoption and all points in between.

 

[Quinntastic]

i do not believe that my personal belief or faith should determine the lives or decisions of others.

I think that if more people felt this way, or just realized that this is how things SHOULD BE - the world would be a MUCH better place.

And I'm not a tree-hugger, I swear. I'm just a woman who has been through a hell of a lot and my outlook on life has come out of some pretty traumatic experiences - so it's easy for a lot of men to say, "Oh yeah, abortion's wrong, it's just that easy". You don't have to worry about the government being able to tell you what you can and can't do with your nutsack or penis because that will never happen. Not that I want to make this a gender issue - I'm just saying. It cheeses me off a bit.

Let's go smoke some weed and enjoy the commencement ceremony, I say...

 

[jason_h537]

Quintatics I could not agree with you more. not sure what angle FrankMA is playing. Comparing Obama or any support of abortion to Hilter is extreme. If you want to be extreme in your comparison Bush is closer to Hitler than Obama. Bush supports the death penalty, check his record as Texas govenor. He started a war and accepted torture as a means of interrogation.

NOBODY is Hitler. I am not a fan of Bush or much of his policies, but he is certianly not Hitler. Everyone needs to calm down with the over the top comparisons, because the buety of this country is that every four years if we are not happy with the man in charge we can just vote him out. There is a system of checks and balances to prevent this country from goin to far to any extreme. Both conservatives and liberals need each other. SO NO MORE HITLER REFERENCES PLEASE

 

[FrankMA]

I agree... though that's not a valid reason to allow anything in our country... you can say makig rape illegal doesn't stop rapists... not comparing rapists to abortionists... just the logic that was used...

but the "it's a woman's body" is not the argument here... it's the killing or not killing of a young child... I find those on the left try to get away from that by making it a womens rights issue... yet that doesn't even begin to address the opposing argument at it's core... obviously that's the problem

right?

The Catholic church and Notre dame has always believed that abortion is the killing of a child and yes, this is the belief of the so called "religious right". I would contend that this is a Christian belief. By allowing someone to speak who holds the view that it is o.k. to kill children because the parent chooses to do so is wrong. This was what this tread was about.
I know some do not believe in the Catholic church and Notre Dames values or Chistian values.

There is a lot of hypocrisy on this issue. A young wonan in my state just got several years in prison for throwing her baby in a trash can when he was born; however, if she had visited an abortion clinic, even a few days earlier-according to people like Obama, she would be using her 'right to choose." I guess these people feel that she does not have a right to choose when she threw her unwanted child in the trash. If I was her lawyer I would have used the argument that even our President agrees women have a right to choose what they want to do with their children.

 

[Quinntastic]

If I was her lawyer I would have used the argument that even our President agrees women have a right to choose what they want to do with their children.

Then you'd lose, because the President, while a person with a lot of power, is a person just the same as you and I. Just because HE advocates pro-choice (and I'd make the argument AGAIN that pro-choice does NOT equate with pro-abortion, let's be clear on THAT) does not mean that should or is the stance of the country or the law.

That's why we have laws that are separate from the President. Because if the President made our laws based on their own opinions, we'd be looking at a fascist dictatorship - not the democracy in which we live.

 

[MeanGreen]

FrankMA then the case is your city makes my point. It is all about educating people. She could have had an abortion but didn't and did something just as stupid. Who was there for her? Where were her parents, doctors, clergy, anyone. What was she thinking for 9 - 10 months? If we make abortion illegal won't this and other things just as bad happen more often then they do now.

 

[FrankMA]

Then you'd lose, because the President, while a person with a lot of power, is a person just the same as you and I. Just because HE advocates pro-choice (and I'd make the argument AGAIN that pro-choice does NOT equate with pro-abortion, let's be clear on THAT) does not mean that should or is the stance of the country or the law.

That's why we have laws that are separate from the President. Because if the President made our laws based on their own opinions, we'd be looking at a fascist dictatorship - not the democracy in which we live.

I would oviously lose that battle in court.However, I contend that pro-choice is pro abortion because it is basically saying that it is o.k. to kill children because they are unwanted. Even if I don't want to kill children, is it alright to let others do so? We protect children from child abuse-what greater child abuse is there than to kill them?
As president, Obama has a lot of influence on our laws. For instance, he will appoint Supreme counrt judges and other federal judges who will make decisions regarding the law.; but that is not the point here.
The things Obama has done in the past- in the name of protecting pro-choice should exclude him from speaking at a place like Notre Dame. In Illinois, Obama refused to pass a law to let children born because of botched abortions have medical attention because he was afraid it would negatively affect Row v. Wade. In effect, he was in favor of letting children already born die without help. If you had done that to a dog, you would face animal cruelty charges.
The whole point here is that Notre dame, which does not favor killing children, if they do it or someone else, should not have invited him to speak.

 

[Quinntastic]

I would oviously lose that battle in court.However, I contend that pro-choice is pro abortion because it is basically saying that it is o.k. to kill children because they are unwanted. Even if I don't want to kill children, is it alright to let others do so? We protect children from child abuse-what greater child abuse is there than to kill them?
As president, Obama has a lot of influence on our laws. For instance, he will appoint Supreme counrt judges and other federal judges who will make decisions regarding the law.; but that is not the point here.
The things Obama has done in the past- in the name of protecting pro-choice should exclude him from speaking at a place like Notre Dame. In Illinois, Obama refused to pass a law to let children born because of botched abortions have medical attention because he was afraid it would negatively affect Row v. Wade. In effect, he was in favor of letting children already born die without help. If you had done that to a dog, you would face animal cruelty charges.
The whole point here is that Notre dame, which does not favor killing children, if they do it or someone else, should not have invited him to speak.

I'm pretty sure it's obvious to you before you posted this - that you and I are never going to see eye to eye on this issue. Why then do you feel the need to try to convince me of anything? You think one way, and I think differently. We've come to these decisions on our own accord, and as an adult, you should understand that reasonable minds can disagree. If you feel so strongly, I'd like to see you put your money where you mouth is. Start going to your local Catholic schools, middle schools, what-have-you and start giving small discussions on the importance of abstinence or birth control (wait - Catholics don't believe in birth control either, do they?). THEN you will have made a significant contribution to society on behalf of your beliefs.

But making posts comparing Obama to Hitler is doing you NO good - as you are not convincing me or changing MY mind of anything...except maybe convincing me that you have a mind the size of a peanut.

 

[FrankMA]

I'm pretty sure it's obvious to you before you posted this - that you and I are never going to see eye to eye on this issue. Why then do you feel the need to try to convince me of anything? You think one way, and I think differently. We've come to these decisions on our own accord, and as an adult, you should understand that reasonable minds can disagree. If you feel so strongly, I'd like to see you put your money where you mouth is. Start going to your local Catholic schools, middle schools, what-have-you and start giving small discussions on the importance of abstinence or birth control (wait - Catholics don't believe in birth control either, do they?). THEN you will have made a significant contribution to society on behalf of your beliefs.

But making posts comparing Obama to Hitler is doing you NO good - as you are not convincing me or changing MY mind of anything...except maybe convincing me that you have a mind the size of a peanut.

I guess I will not convince you; but, the point is that Notre Dame, The Catholic Church, and Christians hold the view that abortion is murder. You hold a different view than Notre Dame, the Catholic Church, and Christians. I feel that because of his beliefs, which is opposed to the Notre Dame, the Catholic Church , and Christian beliefs, Obama should not have been asked to speak at Notre Dame.
As a military veteran, I fought so all Americans can express their opinion and hold different views and I would go to war today to protect that freedom; however, I would
never invite someone to speak in my church if he held anti-Christian views.

 

[Honey Nut Irish]

Personally I don't think abortion should be a religious issue at all. It really comes down to your own definition of when life begins, and whether or not abortion constitutes murder.

 

[MeanGreen]

FrankMA, how do you feel about George W. speak at a Catholic college knowing he also supports murder, under a different name(s) the death penalty and war. He spoke at one and he was the supported candidate by my church and my catholic diocese during his two runs for president. He views are anti-Christian also. I believe when he was governor of TX, they lead the nation in death penalties that were carried out. I am against abortion, but I do not know where we draw the line and say war and the death penalty are ok, but abortion isn't. Murder is murder, killing is killing doesn't matter the age of the victim.

 

[FrankMA]

FrankMA, how do you feel about George W. speak at a Catholic college knowing he also supports murder, under a different name(s) the death penalty and war. He spoke at one and he was the supported candidate by my church and my catholic diocese during his two runs for president. He views are anti-Christian also. I believe when he was governor of TX, they lead the nation in death penalties that were carried out. I am against abortion, but I do not know where we draw the line and say war and the death penalty are ok, but abortion isn't. Murder is murder, killing is killing doesn't matter the age of the victim.

The death penalty and war are both supported by the Bible. For instance-Exodus Chapters 21 and 22 outline instances where the death penalty could be used. There are numerous instances in the Bible where God commanded his people to go to war. In some instances, he gave them directions on how to win a war (2 Chronicles chapter 20). So you could argue that God would not be opposed to either.

 

[MeanGreen]

If we are to go according to the Bible, surprisingly, abortion is never mentioned in the Bible, despite the fact that it has been practiced throughout recorded human history. However, a number of Bible passages may be relevant. Several verses are cited as evidence that a fetus is not a living being. Life is equated with breath throughout the Bible, and this passage seems to suggest that a person is not living until he or she takes a first breath after birth:

The LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. (NIV, Genesis 2:7)

This passage from Exodus seems to say that causing death to a fetus is not as serious a crime as causing death to a person:

"And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. "But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, (NAS, Exodus 21:22-24)

These verses are often cited as evidence that a fetus is truly a living human being, and deserving the same protection:

At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, where she entered Zechariah's home and greeted Elizabeth. When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear! But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy. (NIV, Luke 1:39-44)

Now the word of the LORD came to me saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations." (NAS, Jeremiah 1:4-5)

I will say to God: ... "Your hands shaped me and made me. Will you now turn and destroy me? Remember that you molded me like clay. Will you now turn me to dust again? (NIV, Job 10:2, 8-9)

The Bible gives direct guidance on many topics, but not on abortion. The strong emotions surrounding the abortion issue may lead those on both sides of the issue into the sin of self-righteousness. Jesus was greatly offended by self-righteous religious people who thought they were better than those they considered "sinners."

Thou shalt not kill was a commandment from God. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

We really could go on forever. I agree abortion is not only wrong but un-Christian, un-Catholic, and a terrible act. However, supporting Fr. Jenkins view we need to have a dialog with the supports if we are going to end this.

 

[ACamp1900]

I don't have much to add to the last few posts... But I will say this... Obama and the current powers that be go WAY BEYOND "not letting one person force his/her beliefs on another"

The policies they support allow a doctor to be fired for refusing to preform a large number of procedures that any doctor may find PERSONALLY vile, excessesive and possibliy flat evil... again that is the doctors personal choice... Obama also supports the idea of forcing pleanty of actions on the CHURCH that go along the same lines... so this leftist co-out about protecting peoples personal ideas is bullshit in regards to THIS topic...

And THAT's a big reason why we have the uproar, this isn't Clinton ten years ago simply supporting a pro choice america... so if there are those who do not understand why peopple are very upset then I don't know what to tell you...

I still say that Obama is the President and should be treated as such..., but that is easy for me to say, I don't dislike Obama because of abortion, I dislike him because his party already has my money funding too much laziness and government corruption and he wants to take it fifty steps further... you one ever has the "God Given Right" to my money...

*Takes a deep breath.... and moves on*

 

[jason_h537]

And THAT's a big reason why we have the uproar, this isn't Clinton ten years ago simply supporting a pro choice america... so if there are those who do not understand why peopple are very upset then I don't know what to tell you...

He has a 63% approval rating. I think most of the uproar is from people that are just upset that republicans are no longer in power

 

[jason_h537]

The death penalty and war are both supported by the Bible. For instance-Exodus Chapters 21 and 22 outline instances where the death penalty could be used. There are numerous instances in the Bible where God commanded his people to go to war. In some instances, he gave them directions on how to win a war (2 Chronicles chapter 20). So you could argue that God would not be opposed to either.

The Catholic Church and the Pope have a strong stance against the death penalty. The bible is mearly mans interpretation of God's word. Their are alot of things in the bible that can be interpreted to extremist ways. Hitler, the KKK, Al Qaeda, the Taliban, all believe they are doing God's will.

 

[fortwayne_nd]

NOBODY is Hitler. I am not a fan of Bush or much of his policies, but he is certianly not Hitler. Everyone needs to calm down with the over the top comparisons, because the buety of this country is that every four years if we are not happy with the man in charge we can just vote him out. There is a system of checks and balances to prevent this country from goin to far to any extreme. Both conservatives and liberals need each other. SO NO MORE HITLER REFERENCES PLEASE

It seemed Bush was regularly called Hitler by many looking to score political points. I'm not a Republican but I am an anti-Democrat. And after the last eight years, I will do what I can to oppose them at every turn. We might need each other, but I'm not sure what the catalyst will be to bring the country together. A start would be for the SOB to explain his involvement with or denounce the terrorist Bill Ayers.

And as I've said in the past, if Bush and Cheney are guilty of breaking the law then try them as traitors. The rule of law first.