Culture

[ColoradoIrish]

So, in my post that you responded to, under which of the most extreme denominations of Christianity and Judaism do trans people have “more rights”?

Living in a theocracy no matter the religion is a hellscape for anyone that doesn’t follow that particular faith to the utmost. Best part about the West is that I can live in a major city and have friends from all faiths and enjoy their celebrations together. I’ll take that over living with Jim Jones.

Again, my post to Leppy, is highlighting how LGBTQ people don’t exactly win under any extreme religious belief.

This country was founded to escape religious persecution. It's crazy that I'm being told I should be thankful for being persecuted by one religious group but not the other.

 

[drayer54]

This country was founded to escape religious persecution. It's crazy that I'm being told I should be thankful for being persecuted by one religious group but not the other.

Freedom of religion includes freedom from government-imposed belief. I agree with that. But it does not require religion to be erased from public life or American history.
The U.S. was founded to prevent the state from enforcing a religion, not to deny that the country was shaped by a largely Christian influence. That influence shows up in our institutions, language, and traditions, including phrases like “In God We Trust.”
Recognizing that history is not the same as endorsing persecution or coercion. The line that matters is whether government forces belief or punishes dissent. Acknowledging religious influence does neither. I don’t dispute the trends pointed out by Blazers though with how Islam influenced nations compare in terms of personal liberties and treatment of LGBTQ folks.

But hey, we have a push left and we’ll see how it goes in the NYC experiment.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Freedom of religion includes freedom from government-imposed belief. I agree with that. But it does not require religion to be erased from public life or American history.
The U.S. was founded to prevent the state from enforcing a religion, not to deny that the country was shaped by a largely Christian influence. That influence shows up in our institutions, language, and traditions, including phrases like “In God We Trust.”
Recognizing that history is not the same as endorsing persecution or coercion. The line that matters is whether government forces belief or punishes dissent. Acknowledging religious influence does neither. I don’t dispute the trends pointed out by Blazers though with how Islam influenced nations compare in terms of personal liberties and treatment of LGBTQ folks.

But hey, we have a push left and we’ll see how it goes in the NYC experiment.

Washington assigned equal standing to all peaceable religions, placing Christian and non-Christian religions on the same plane. In a 1788 letter to F.A. Van der Kamp he wrote, “I had always hoped that this land might become a safe and agreeable Asylum to the virtuous and persecuted part of mankind, to whatever nation they might belong.” But he looked beyond mere asylum, mere toleration, to a higher level of inclusion. In his Letter to the Hebrew Congregation, Washington rejects the notion of mere toleration as nothing more than a majority’s forbearance of the beliefs of a minority, rather than their full acceptance of the minority’s inherent right to hold its beliefs or opinions. Washington’s co-revolutionary Tom Paine wrote, “Toleration is not the opposite of intoleration, but is the counterfeit of it. Both are despotisms. The one assumes to itself the right of withholding liberty of conscience, and the other of granting it.“

 

[drayer54]

I fully enjoy nerding on this one and love to debate it.
Washington’s view actually reinforces my argument, not contradicts it. Equal standing and full acceptance of conscience means the government cannot coerce belief or punish dissent, not that religious influence must be absent from public life. Washington rejected “toleration” as a favor granted by a majority, but he did not argue for a religion-free civic culture.
The founders distinguished between liberty of conscience and cultural reality. People of all faiths were equal under the law, while the nation itself was still shaped by a predominantly Christian moral framework. Those two ideas are not in tension.
Rejecting persecution does not require erasing historical religious influence. It requires denying the state the power to compel belief. That is the line Washington and Paine were drawing.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

I fully enjoy nerding on this one and love to debate it.
Washington’s view actually reinforces my argument, not contradicts it. Equal standing and full acceptance of conscience means the government cannot coerce belief or punish dissent, not that religious influence must be absent from public life. Washington rejected “toleration” as a favor granted by a majority, but he did not argue for a religion-free civic culture.
The founders distinguished between liberty of conscience and cultural reality. People of all faiths were equal under the law, while the nation itself was still shaped by a predominantly Christian moral framework. Those two ideas are not in tension.
Rejecting persecution does not require erasing historical religious influence. It requires denying the state the power to compel belief. That is the line Washington and Paine were drawing.

No one is saying it doesn't, it reinforces what I'm saying about religious persecution. The fore fathers had the fore sight to understand that not all that religious are virtuous and understood that religion is a tool that can be wielded to persecute and oppress people. It's a huge reason of what led to the founding of the country. It's the same as why they built 3 branches of government and the system of checks and balances. To ensure that these powers were not used to persecute those that didn't have the same beliefs as long as they were "virtuous" or good people.

 

[Blazers46]

Thanks for admitting I was right about him being a practicing Jew.

You said he was a religious Jew. I still don’t think you 100% get it. Jesus transcends religion. Jesus had to “practice” the law/customs to fullflil the law as prophesied. If Jesus is God as the Bible says he doesn’t fit into a religion that worships Him. Not Jew, Gentile, not even Christian. He did not come to earth for the sake of religion hustling, he came to save souls.

But just because Jesus/God transcends religion… we really don’t. Following all of Jesus’ teachings makes you a disciple of Jesus, a citizen of the Kingdom of God, and someone in living relationship with God through Christ. But God calls us to being community with other believers. What happens when a community of believers come together? A bunch of like-minded people in a building worshiping the same Jesus? That is called Chruch. I’d rather not be called religious at all but by definition others do.

 

[Blazers46]

Again, my post to Leppy, is highlighting how LGBTQ people don’t exactly win under any extreme religious belief.

You’re comment is assuming LGBTQRS people fit into religious views. It doesn’t. So by definition those religions that have been inclusive and validate the gays are the extreme… not the other way around.

 

[Blazers46]

This country was founded to escape religious persecution. It's crazy that I'm being told I should be thankful for being persecuted by one religious group but not the other.

If you truly believe people should be free of persecution in regard to a religion, you would probably stop mocking the fact that Charlie Kirk was killed by one of your own for expressing his religious beliefs. Just proves you’re a hypocrite and only expressing convenient “truth” when convenient.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

If you truly believe people should be free of persecution in regard to a religion, you would probably stop mocking the fact that Charlie Kirk was killed by one of your own for expressing his religious beliefs. Just proves you’re a hypocrite and only expressing convenient “truth” when convenient.

It's just fun to trigger you. I didn't mock him either. Simply calling out how he wife admitted to him being grifter. And it's cute you trying pass blame for his death on to me tho.

 

[Blazers46]

It's just fun to trigger you. I didn't mock him either. Simply calling out how he wife admitted to him being grifter. And it's cute you trying pass blame for his death on to me tho.

Probably the only triggering thing you have ever done on this page is pretend you know the Bible and Christianity. The sad part is you have probably just regurgitated this BS from some other mentally deranged incompetent thinker and it sounded good and fits your narrative so it’s easy to just roll with it then actually know truth.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Probably the only triggering thing you have ever done on this page is pretend you know the Bible and Christianity. The sad part is you have probably just regurgitated this BS from some other mentally deranged incompetent thinker and it sounded good and fits your narrative so it’s easy to just roll with it then actually know truth.

How dare you call the Catholic Church and it's priests mentally deranged and incompetent

 

[Blazers46]

How dare you call the Catholic Church and it's priests mentally deranged and incompetent

If the shoe fits, blasphemy is blasphemy.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

You didn't answer my question at all.

I certainly did and pointed to the bill of rights. What rights do LGBT folks enjoy under Sharia Law? This shouldn't be difficult.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

The first amendment still applies at the local level. How will sharia law be implemented if it's against our Constitution?

You live in the suburbs of Philly correct? Philly has one of the largest amounts of Muslims in the country what parts of sharia law have been implemented there?

There's plenty a local township, city council, or school board could do that would fundamentally change things in that area and not violate the first amendment.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

There's plenty a local township, city council, or school board could do that would fundamentally change things in that area and not violate the first amendment.

Such as what?

 

[ColoradoIrish]

I certainly did and pointed to the bill of rights. What rights do LGBT folks enjoy under Sharia Law? This shouldn't be difficult.

No idea, and again I don't care. And you didn't answer my question at all

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

What rights do trans folks have under evangelical/fundamentalist beliefs? What about under haredi practices? Do you think all Christians are evangelicals? All people who believe in Judaism are Hasidic? You'd agree with me that the most extremes of any religion are cancerous to society. I have no problem saying Sharia Law is not belief system that should be forced onto anyone, just like evangelicals can stay in their swamp fields, and hasidic folks can keep to themselves.

There is no logical reason to believe that being Muslim = Sharia Law supporter.

First, LGBT folks in the US are protected by the bill of rights which trumps all religion.

Second, Christianity is centered on free will of the individual.

Third, when we see the nutjobs in the middle east burning US and Israeli flags, we don't see any LGBT folks marching in that parade.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

First, LGBT folks in the US are protected by the bill of rights which trumps all religion.

Second, Christianity is centered on free will of the individual.

Third, when we see the nutjobs in the middle east burning US and Israeli flags, we don't see any LGBT folks marching in that parade.

Maga is systemically removing rights for LGBT people and I've provided plenty of evidence for it and you constantly side step it. Sharia law is not possible to get implemented here without our government being completely overthrown, so I don't get what you're obsession is with it

 

[Blazers46]

Such as what?

Gay marriage was not legal at one time. That’s a great example of certain values and beliefs leaking into a counties law and policy. The more secular the US and other countries have become the more rights the gays have got… see how that works. Move away from religion and family values and you get you.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Gay marriage was not legal at one time. That’s a great example of certain values and beliefs leaking into a counties law and policy. The more secular the US and other countries have become the more rights the gays have got… see how that works. Move away from religion and family values and you get you.

So a positive development regarding rights the further we've moved away from religion. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[TorontoGold]

You’re comment is assuming LGBTQRS people fit into religious views. It doesn’t. So by definition those religions that have been inclusive and validate the gays are the extreme… not the other way around.

Exactly my point. The most extreme aspects of any religion should not be governing or influencing policy.

First, LGBT folks in the US are protected by the bill of rights which trumps all religion.

Second, Christianity is centered on free will of the individual.

Third, when we see the nutjobs in the middle east burning US and Israeli flags, we don't see any LGBT folks marching in that parade.

Yes that first point is why the US is one of the most open and accepting countries in the world in terms of people of all beliefs.

Your interpretation of Christianity is exactly how the average Muslim person would describe Islam. You (rightfully) do not believe in the most militant aspects.

Yeah I wonder why LGBTQ people aren't hanging out in the streets of Tehran. Think about antisemitism in the 30s/40s, do you think Jewish people in North America had it good because "hey at least you aren't in a concentration camp"?

Protected classes of citizens will always be targets no matter the cause or reason for conflict. Nazi camps are perfect example of the first line of attack for any hateful group, you got your gay people, special needs folks, indigenous or people from the land (Romani/poles), political prisoners, and of course the Jewish people. Those are always the groups of people you find in any hate group target. So someone shouldn't be surprised that LGBTQ folks aren't doing so hot with the Taliban.

 

[Blazers46]

So a positive development regarding rights the further we've moved away from religion. Thanks for proving my point.

If that is even your point. It also proves his point in that religion and its value system and beliefs, have an effect on law and policy. The United States, moving away from those Christian values would be proving his point. The more people that come to this country with differing value systems, like those that come from Muslim countries, well inevitably shape, culture, law, and policy according to their value systems.

You are a perfect example. Do you have values and beliefs that you hold pretty tightly. Those values and beliefs align with other delusional people with the same values and beliefs, which has then affected law and policy in the United States.

If Minnesota somehow becomes 60% Muslim in 10 years or 20 years, don’t you think their values and systems of belief will affect law and policy?

I’ve been saying it for years and it sounds like you are in agreement that the country has not only pushed further away from Christianity, but it has been very intentional by the left because the further away we get from Christianity, even our founding, and the old system of values and beliefs, the closer you get to making your mental health issues normal policy.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

If that is even your point. It also proves his point in that religion and its value system and beliefs, have an effect on law and policy. The United States, moving away from those Christian values would be proving his point. The more people that come to this country with differing value systems, like those that come from Muslim countries, well inevitably shape, culture, law, and policy according to their value systems.

You are a perfect example. Do you have values and beliefs that you hold pretty tightly. Those values and beliefs align with other delusional people with the same values and beliefs, which has then affected law and policy in the United States.

If Minnesota somehow becomes 60% Muslim in 10 years or 20 years, don’t you think their values and systems of belief will affect law and policy?

I’ve been saying it for years and it sounds like you are in agreement that the country has not only pushed further away from Christianity, but it has been very intentional by the left because the further away we get from Christianity, even our founding, and the old system of values and beliefs, the closer you get to making your mental health issues normal policy.

I believe all people are equal, I believe in a small limited government without influence from ANY religion. I don't think the government should have any say on my mental health and I don't believe the government should be able to block people's rights from the making the best decision for themselves. I'm glad our country has moved further away from Christianity. I believe it's been a huge benefit for everybody when it comes to personal rights. Keep your delusional religious beliefs as far away as possible from policy and laws

 

[Blazers46]

Exactly my point. The most extreme aspects of any religion should not be governing or influencing policy.

The most extreme aspects of any value system should not be governing or influencing policy. Religious or non.

But what was extreme yesterday could be today’s normal. Nobody would have ever thought that the very small wins for the gay community back in the 60s, 70s, 80s would eventually turn into sex change operations for minors in 2025. Extreme.

 

[Blazers46]

I believe all people are equal,

Under the law, sure, I agree.

I believe in a small limited government without influence from ANY religion.

Directly no, but the majority value system will always rule the day. That is the fight, isn’t it?

I don't think the government should have any say on my mental health and I don't believe the government should be able to block people's rights from the making the best decision for themselves.

Based on a lot of things you have said on this forum, I suspect you get a lot of government “help”. I think if the government is subsidizing your life, they definitely should have a say and how they spend their money.

I'm glad our country has moved further away from Christianity.

Duh, you’re gay. I think we would both agree that the further the United States moves away from Christian values and beliefs the more we move toward an insane and delusional population.

I believe it's been a huge benefit for everybody when it comes to personal rights. Keep your delusional religious beliefs as far away as possible from policy and laws

Delusional? You should ask your therapist who is delusional.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

Under the law, sure, I agree.

Directly no, but the majority value system will always rule the day. That is the fight, isn’t it?

Based on a lot of things you have said on this forum, I suspect you get a lot of government “help”. I think if the government is subsidizing your life, they definitely should have a say and how they spend their money.

Duh, you’re gay. I think we would both agree that the further the United States moves away from Christian values and beliefs the more we move toward an insane and delusional population.

Delusional? You should ask your therapist who is delusional.

The bolded is another reason why you are a bigot. I'm curious what government help you think I get. The only government assistance I've ever received was unemployment.

Awwwww! Thanks for calling me gay and reaffirming that I'm a women who loves women! You have no idea how much that means to me 🩷

 

[ColoradoIrish]

The most extreme aspects of any value system should not be governing or influencing policy. Religious or non.

But what was extreme yesterday could be today’s normal. Nobody would have ever thought that the very small wins for the gay community back in the 60s, 70s, 80s would eventually turn into sex change operations for minors in 2025. Extreme.

That's definitely the fault of gay rights and not advances in the medical field and a better understanding of these issues. But we get it, you think everything is the gays fault.

 

[Blazers46]

That's definitely the fault of gay rights and not advances in the medical field and a better understanding of these issues. But we get it, you think everything is the gays fault.

Not everything, just the gay stuff…

 

[Blazers46]

The bolded is another reason why you are a bigot. I'm curious what government help you think I get. The only government assistance I've ever received was unemployment.

Awwwww! Thanks for calling me gay and reaffirming that I'm a women who loves women! You have no idea how much that means to me 🩷

You and I are not the same. Under the law, sure but that’s as far as it goes. The fallacy that everyone was created equal is a lie. Which is why you see a therapist and I don’t.

 

[ColoradoIrish]

You and I are not the same. Under the law, sure but that’s as far as it goes. The fallacy that everyone was created equal is a lie. Which is why you see a therapist and I don’t.

Like I said and stand by, you're a bigot. You should try therapy. It's good for everybody.