Chris "Belt To" Ash - Defensive Coordinator

[2013Irish]

If we expect the team to take it one game at a time the rest of the way, we should do so as fans. The product on D has been unacceptable to date, but you have to give the DC (and players, for that matter) an opportunity to redeem themselves.

I still remember sitting in the stands during the Miami (OH) game last year and having some mouth breather with an 85 IQ behind me criticize Riley every single play and call for Angeli. Fast forward four months and Riley's a Notre Dame Man.

Be patient and have some faith that this is not a finished product.

 

[tko]

Mickens, thread closed?

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

10 applicants? In this job market?

 

[Irish Norseman]

I came here hoping to see that Chris Ash was fired. I guess I’ll go back to being disappointed again.

 

[dublinirish]

Can we not have this thread right now? We're two games into the season, and we already have a Chris Ash Ass where this can be discussed.

should be an automatic delete by mods imo

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Just to be contrarian, what if Chris Ash really does have a good long term plan for the defense? Did MF see the defense get exposed against top flight offenses in mtm coverage and think a healthy mix of zone would take them to the next level? Was the national championship the harbinger of this desire to play zone better? Are the next wave of DL recruits the group that can start to get pressure with 4, allowing the secondary and LBs more freedom to mix up coverages? Even if all this is true, changing it before the 2 biggest games on the the schedule seems futile. If (big if) the defense can figure out how to play zone more effectively, without having to think so much and therefore play more aggressively, maybe we'll see the rewards as the season progresses. But probably not.

 

[NDPhilly]

FWIW I didn’t think our defense was that bad against Miami considering how they were projected to be a top offense entering the season and we had a new DC. They especially tightened up in the second half.

 

[Free Manera]

I think a big contributing factor is that Stroman isn’t working. Tae is starting this week and when Shuler comes back after half it will probably be those two with Stroman odd man out. A rangy safety like Tae can fix a lot of problems.

 

[ab2cmiller]

I’ll wait and see what happens with the adjustments.

I do think the loss of Kiser and Watts was huge. They were both exceptional at making sure everyone was lined up properly and making any pre-snap adjustments. There’s been way too much confusion pre-snap this year.

 

[Silentkaw]

Not saying that those guys didn’t matter, but I hate that excuse. You know who else loses great players? Everybody. Most defenses don’t fall off a cliff when those guys leave though.

 

[General Colon Bowel]

Not saying that those guys didn’t matter, but I hate that excuse. You know who else loses great players? Everybody. Most defenses don’t fall off a cliff when those guys leave though.

Agreed. OSU had 8 defensive guys drafted and had to replace their top tier D coordinator, and yet their defense appears to be good again this year.

 

[PolishDomer]

Even NCAA 25 knows Ash is Ass...

 

[Firevangorder]

I think your next coordinator is one of these 5 guys ( Mickens, Bryant Haines Indiana, Tony White Florida State, Dave Aranda, Jon Heacock) dark horse John Butler Nebraska, I also like Doug Belk from USC he is their DB coach but also has DC experience at Houston also like Tim Banks from TENN

Bullough.

 

[IrishWayDomer]

There's a world where this is the perfect opportunity to elevate Mickens as an interim.

Defense has the talent, if they respond and he turns it around, he got a year learning on the job.

If he's not it, we now know with ZERO commitment to him.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Agreed. OSU had 8 defensive guys drafted and had to replace their top tier D coordinator, and yet their defense appears to be good again this year.

Now google Caleb Downs pre-snap. The fact that Downs is still there has a significant impact on that defense making the adjustment.

I'm not even arguing that the loss of Kiser and Watts are the main reason that our defense has dropped off. I am suggesting that losing both of those guys that had significant pre-snap responsibilities is a contributing factor.

Right now there appears to be too much confusion and Ash needs to solve that problem. Confusion and uncertainty will always make a defense play slow.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I think a big contributing factor is that Stroman isn’t working. Tae is starting this week and when Shuler comes back after half it will probably be those two with Stroman odd man out. A rangy safety like Tae can fix a lot of problems.

It’s still early so there’s time to turn it around but none of the transfers have really jumped out as a really savvy acquisition. Fields has been good & I expect him to get better as he & CJ gel but the rest have been really underwhelming.

 

[Some Irish Bloke]

Mickens, thread closed?

I'm not blaming Mickens but considering he didn't get the promotion last year, and the way the DBs are playing this year, I'm not sure I would get the timing of it. His stock certainly hasn't risen (I ultimately blame Ass and the scheme, once again). What has he done since Ass was hired to make Freeman regret not promoting him in the first place? There's obviously a reason he didn't.

EDIT: I see Cack already made a similar point lol. Sorry gents. Classic example of read the rest of the thread before commenting!

 

[Sea Turtle]

Using OSU as an example isn’t really comparable to 99% of teams in college football. They have had elite recruiting classes for many years and physical talent and depth can flat out win you games.

If most teams lose a lot of senior production and a valuable and successful coordinator there will be a drop off and a significant one.

This was my point the other day when I pointed out that we are NOT Ohio State.

Ohio State is what we should aspire to be on the field.

 

[General Colon Bowel]

Using OSU as an example isn’t really comparable to 99% of teams in college football. They have had elite recruiting classes for many years and physical talent and depth can flat out win you games.

If most teams lose a lot of senior production and a valuable and successful coordinator there will be a drop off and a significant one.

That's a fair point. I used Ohio State because they were very clearly the closest comparable in terms of having an elite defense, losing tons of production, and losing an elite coordinator. There aren't any other teams I can think of that check those boxes this year.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

Why do we think Mickens, who didnt get offered the job earlier, and arguably isnt doing his only job well now, would be able to not only take on the DC role but also continue ineffectively coaching DBs.....

Because he's been a good recruiter at Notre Dame. Full stop. The cheering section doesn't want to lose him as a recruiter and the solution to that is promoting him and or give him a raise. It's a hill to die on and it's fine, but it's probably time people admit it. If he was going to get the DC job, it would have happened 7 months ago. If Mike Mickens is a defensive coordinator next, it probably isn't going to happen at Notre Dame.

They rolled the dice a few years back and gave a very young Clark Lea the keys. He was a first time DC and they promoted him from within. It worked about about as well as it possibly could have and he's a head coach now. The stakes are higher and we're in a new era now. I wasn't excited about hiring Chris Ash, but I wasn't carrying water for Mike Mickens to get the job either. The window for a championship seems open now more than ever. If Ash doesn't work out, I want them to be in the running for the best guy on the market again.

I want Mickens to do well while he's at ND and I hope his career trajectory brings him a lot of wins and money, but the fact of the matter for me as a fan is this: Marcus Freeman and Notre Dame should be able to do better than BOTH Chris Ash and Mike Mickens at defensive coordinator. This is a destination program now for jobs. Mike Elko and Clark Lea ended up SEC head coaches. Then Marcus Freeman parlayed the DC job into a promotion to head coach. Mike Denbrock was OC at LSU of Jayden Daniels' Heisman season and came to ND the next year. Al Golden parlayed Notre Dame DC into an NFL DC job. Seasoned, successful ball coaches should still WANT to come here.

They probably came close on Knowles. Let's win some fucking games this year and see what happens. If they have to go back to the well, they can and they will because this job should be one of the most coveted coordinator jobs anywhere on Earth. Period. I'm sure Mike Mickens may well want it, but you what? A lot of guys better than him are probably going to want it to. They can find a DB coach that recruits well if Mickens leaves, too, which should also not be an issue.

 

[irish4ever]

I came here hoping to see that Chris Ash was fired. I guess I’ll go back to being disappointed again.

Yep, he sucks ass as a DC. Irish would be 2-0 right now with Golden!

 

[rtrn2glory]

Yep, he sucks ass as a DC. Irish would be 2-0 right now with Golden!

I agree with this

 

[Bane]

I have zero patience with Ash because nothing, in his resume or history suggests he's capable of turning it around. I didn't necessarily want Mickens, but once it was clear we were out on any other established DCs, I wanted him. He is unknown. He could be a home run, or a strike out. Ash was a strike out looking right from the jump.

It's a pile of cope to preach the "be patient" line. The barn is already on fire. If the defense turns it around, it will be because Freeman took the reins, which really sort of defeats the purpose of hiring an experienced DC. Whoever said this year feels similar to 2023 is right on. A good team weighed down by an absolutely atrocious half of the ball. We're going to give up a lot (relatively speaking) of points Purdue. The good news is, we should score in bunches.

This guy sucks and has sucked at every station in his career outside of riding the coattails of an Urban Meyer coached OSU team 11 years ago. I hated the hire at the time but held my peace and trusted Freeman. My trust in Freeman is severely damaged now.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Not sure if anyone else has brought this up, but let's play with the scenario that ND's defense is bottom third in the country come Thanksgiving. Borderline 2016 stuff. Freeman has to make a change, whether it's his choice or not.

There's a guy he knows really well at Wisconsin, he's worked with him before, he's a defensive coach, and he's probably on his last leg in Madison.

 

[stlnd01]

Not sure if anyone else has brought this up, but let's play with the scenario that ND's defense is bottom third in the country come Thanksgiving. Borderline 2016 stuff. Freeman has to make a change, whether it's his choice or not.

There's a guy he knows really well at Wisconsin, he's worked with him before, he's a defensive coach, and he's probably on his last leg in Madison.

Sure. Though part of me thinks that Freeman might benefit from branching out beyond his existing coaching tree. It benefitted BK a lot when he went outside his comfort zone and hired Elko (and then later Freeman).

 

[irishff1014]

Yep, he sucks ass as a DC. Irish would be 2-0 right now with Golden!

I know his units have struggled in the defensive backfield but I think if Mickens was the DC we might even be 1-1. He would be getting help from
Freeman and the other coaches. And I think the players would play harder for him.


From the rumor mill it doesn’t sound like Ash is getting the benefit. And we know how players can be. I am not saying it’s right or wrong.

 

[rtrn2glory]

No of fickell is available you snag him.. Unless you can talk Anthony Weaver or another NFL guy into taking it

 

[Bane]

Would Fickell actually come be a DC for Freeman though? Ego and pride are very powerful.

 

[T-Boone]

We should try to get Saban as DC. He is too old to be a HC but is also bored doing that commentary.

 

[SportsingHard]

Why do we think Mickens, who didnt get offered the job earlier, and arguably isnt doing his only job well now, would be able to not only take on the DC role but also continue ineffectively coaching DBs.....

Even I could take on the DC role and coach ineffectively. I don't see why Mickens couldn't do it.