Chris "Belt To" Ash - Defensive Coordinator

[PutuporShutup]

If you think about the players that got exposed at the end of the year vs great offenses (usc and osu), they were Hinish Bowen and gray. Those 3 players are playing even bigger roles and have NOT improved, add our nickel corner has been injured and and even worse corner than gray (Hobbs) has to play a ton, we have major player weaknesses. Hinish played less, that helped in run game. Bowen needs to be never in on passing downs, he’s not Kiser, and gray/hobbs need safety/lb help and better technique. Most of these were obvious if you watched any film of last year yet Freeman and ash made no adjustments or improvements.

I have confidence freeman can get the team more locked in, aggressive, and playing harder, but I think he is clueless schematically and he hired a DC just as clueless. I expect with better focus and effort we can win the majority of our remaining games, but it won’t be pretty vs capable passing offenses.

Under golden teams made plays vs our weak links, but they typically weren’t easy plays. Under freeman/ash, the plays/throws are so easy to make an average passer like Reed had 360 yds on 17 completions. The decision to contain him and not try to pressure/rush him with our clear secondary weaknesses was so moronic, all they needed to do was look at 2023 golden plan vs Caleb and how they created pressure but also contained back side.

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

If you think about the players that got exposed at the end of the year vs great offenses (usc and osu), they were Hinish Bowen and gray. Those 3 players are playing even bigger roles and have NOT improved, add our nickel corner has been injured and and even worse corner than gray (Hobbs) has to play a ton, we have major player weaknesses. Hinish played less, that helped in run game. Bowen needs to be never in on passing downs, he’s not Kiser, and gray/hobbs need safety/lb help and better technique. Most of these were obvious if you watched any film of last year yet Freeman and ash made no adjustments or improvements.

I have confidence freeman can get the team more locked in, aggressive, and playing harder, but I think he is clueless schematically and he hired a DC just as clueless. I expect with better focus and effort we can win the majority of our remaining games, but it won’t be pretty vs capable passing offenses.

Under golden teams made plays vs our weak links, but they typically weren’t easy plays. Under freeman/ash, the plays/throws are so easy to make an average passer like Reed had 360 yds on 17 completions. The decision to contain him and not try to pressure/rush him with our clear secondary weaknesses was so moronic, all they needed to do was look at 2023 golden plan vs Caleb and how they created pressure but also contained back side.

Thats a reasonable opinion but its not the main problem. I dont know why you keep beating this drum.

 

[Irish#1]

I'm going to admit I didn't really look into the Ass hire when it happened, I thought "Surely we can't wind up with another Parker/VanGorder after Golden left us with a Top 10 defense?" This dude has been a DC for 3 years in the last decade, and 2 of those years he was Co-DC with Fickell at OSU. The other year he DC'd for Texas during the pandemic and he stunk the place up. In a 3 loss 9 game regular season they gave up 31 points to a mediocre at best TCU team, 34 to a mediocre Oklahoma State, 31 to a very bad Kansas State, 53 to Oklahoma (It was 4 OT, but 2 drives ended with no points), and 56 points to Texas Tech in single OT who went 4-6 that year. This is not impressive. He had a few decent years at Wisky when they were good...well over a decade ago. The cupboard wasn't bare, I'm having a hard time understanding this hire. I'm struggling even more to understand how he's a secondary specialist after his DC jobs.

In all fairness to Ash, nobody plays defense in the Big 12.

 

[allenm5333]

The reality can be both. The scheme is a mess and some players have not improved and/or regressed. The later could be from not being confident in the new scheme. Whatever the issue, needs to be addressed...now

 

[Irish#1]

I think he needs to admit he was wrong and ask Freeman for some help. He's getting beat like he stole somthin.

He did steal something. A paycheck and our shot at a Natty.

 

[Irish#1]

The reality can be both. The scheme is a mess and some players have not improved and/or regressed. The later could be from not being confident in the new scheme. Whatever the issue, needs to be addressed...now

To me this is it and is obvious by the confusion we see pre-snap.

 

[PutuporShutup]

Thats a reasonable opinion but its not the main problem. I dont know why you keep beating this drum.

Because most are talking like a better DC fixes everything. Ash and Freeman running the D are a major problem right now, no question. But Hinish, Gray, and Bowen looked bad last year when teams could exploit their major weaknesses.

Hinish - He can't stand up in the run game vs strong guards (penn state, ohio state, and Miami threw him around like a rag doll)
Bowen - He is only a run stuffing in the box LB. Think about when he looked good last year, vs Gtech 2nd string QB (when they had no pass game) and vs Georgia 2nd string QB when they had no pass game.
Gray - He can't handle wrs with good/great speed or quickness - USC/Ohio State/miami/A&M

Hinish they have answers for and improved vs A&M not playing him vs the run much.
Bowen - Why the F was he ever in on obvious passing plays (that can be fixed)
Gray - Needs to either not be on fast WRs (despite him playing field) or he always has a level of safety/lb help

and now slot, need safety lb help until Smith is back if the slot is very athletic.

There's major coaching fixes that are needed, but these players had major weaknesses 2 years under golden. You can't fix their physical limitations, but you can't put them in better spots.

 

[rtrn2glory]

I mean Kirby may not call the defense but dude is heavily heavily involved during the game. Marcus might need to make himself more useful and start calling the defense

 

[stlnd01]

Because most are talking like a better DC fixes everything. Ash and Freeman running the D are a major problem right now, no question. But Hinish, Gray, and Bowen looked bad last year when teams could exploit their major weaknesses.

Hinish - He can't stand up in the run game vs strong guards (penn state and ohio state threw him around like a rag doll)
Bowen - He is only a run stuffing in the box LB. Think about when he looked good last year, vs Gtech 2nd string QB (when they had no pass game) and vs Georgia 2nd string QB when they had no pass game.
Gray - He can't handle wrs with good/great speed or quickness - USC/Ohio State

Hinish they have answers for and improved vs A&M not playing him vs the run much.
Bowen - Why the F was he ever in on obvious passing plays (that can be fixed)
Gray - Needs to either not be on fast WRs (despite him playing field) or he always has a level of safety/lb help

and now slot, need safety lb help until Smith is back if the slot is very athletic.

There's major coaching fixes that are needed, but these players had major weaknesses 2 years under golden. You can't fix their physical limitations, but you can't put them in better spots.

I assume you mean "can" put them in better spots, which again comes back to coaching.

It's college football, every team has players, even starters, with flaws, and Bowen and Gray, at least, would be starters/heavy rotation players on almost any team in the sport. But a good coach protects their weaknesses with scheme. Ash isn't doing that. If anything, his scheme is accentuating their weaknesses by making guys who are used to playing aggressive play more tentatively.

 

[PutuporShutup]

I mean Kirby may not call the defense but dude is heavily heavily involved during the game. Marcus might need to make himself more useful and start calling the defense

Agree. I hope Freeman, and I believe he has learned a lot over the last 5 years. But i'm not holding my breath that Ash/Freeman can figure this all out. Freeman needed Kelly to step in during the early part of the 2021 season to change the defensive structure/plan freeman had set up for 9-10 months for that season.

I think better effort, attention to detail, focus, etc can be put in place and that's probably good enough to win most if not all of our regular season remaining games (if offense continues to play well and improve). I don't think we have the person on staff to build a plan and call a game that will significantly improve the D vs a good offense. We'll see somewhat this weekend but at Arkansas will challenge our D and be a good test.

 

[PutuporShutup]

I assume you mean "can" put them in better spots, which again comes back to coaching.

It's college football, every team has players, even starters, with flaws, and Bowen and Gray, at least, would be starters/heavy rotation players on almost any team in the sport. But a good coach protects their weaknesses with scheme. Ash isn't doing that. If anything, his scheme is accentuating their weaknesses by making guys who are used to playing aggressive play more tentatively.

I'd prefer "Should" or "will" then it turns into "does"

Yeah, no doubt bowen and Gray have ability and would play for a lot of teams. I'm just dumbfounded us stupid internet fools could see it last year and before the season and ash after a completed supposed unbiased eval of the entire team, puts these players in their weakest spots even more like you said.

Having Bowen in on obvious passing downs (i'm sure it's to get the D set) is such a liability and is criminaly stupid. Seems like a better role for Talich with his much better athleticism, ball skills, and length.

To play poorly on D at times vs Miami, then have a bye, and come out even worse vs A&M, that's about the clearest sign of poor coaching. Every coach says your biggest gains should be between game 1-2. That should have been extremely true with a bye.

Ohio State to Marshall - Nope
A&M to NIU - Nope
Miami to A&M - Nope

There's an early season issue going on under Freeman.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

I'm still worried that the "execution" is actually worse than the scheme.
I think the scheme is bad.
But if its an "execution" issue - then that means the coaches just sucked at getting players ready and that's even more infuriating and potentially harder to fix than just "change the scheme".

 

[InKellyWeTrust]

Because most are talking like a better DC fixes everything. Ash and Freeman running the D are a major problem right now, no question. But Hinish, Gray, and Bowen looked bad last year when teams could exploit their major weaknesses.

Hinish - He can't stand up in the run game vs strong guards (penn state, ohio state, and Miami threw him around like a rag doll)
Bowen - He is only a run stuffing in the box LB. Think about when he looked good last year, vs Gtech 2nd string QB (when they had no pass game) and vs Georgia 2nd string QB when they had no pass game.
Gray - He can't handle wrs with good/great speed or quickness - USC/Ohio State/miami/A&M

Hinish they have answers for and improved vs A&M not playing him vs the run much.
Bowen - Why the F was he ever in on obvious passing plays (that can be fixed)
Gray - Needs to either not be on fast WRs (despite him playing field) or he always has a level of safety/lb help

and now slot, need safety lb help until Smith is back if the slot is very athletic.

There's major coaching fixes that are needed, but these players had major weaknesses 2 years under golden. You can't fix their physical limitations, but you can't put them in better spots.

Hinish, sure. Gray and Bowen are, at minimum, above average power 4 players. They are not being put in positions to succeed and not being coached to their strengths. So, of course they will individually look bad at times, but check draft boards.

 

[MacIrish75]

So all of a sudden mickens doesn't know how to coach CB's? Like come on hahaha so benmo and Moore and hart just knew how to do it on their own? It's why last year Gray looked better than this year so far? When you change systems guys overthink and make mistakes. They are playing slow and guessing on things that they never did previously which I am assuming is because they are doing too much they have too much on their plate on reacting to what they see

Occam’s Razor applies, here.

 

[Dale]

I'm still worried that the "execution" is actually worse than the scheme.
I think the scheme is bad.
But if it’s an "execution" issue - then that means the coaches just sucked at getting players ready and that's even more infuriating and potentially harder to fix than just "change the scheme".

Agreed but if you want an optimistic view, things should/could start to cascade in positive manner as quickly as they did negatively

Last two games have been two good OLs with twitchy WRs beating our DL, suspect backup CBs and with little help from the safeties.

Well you could be facing weaker WRs and OL from here on out, you could be making a change at safety to Tae Johnson and get Devonta Smith back

So I think there is a clear personnel/talent issue at spots, there is a way you can see it quickly change if you squint, and any remaining deficiencies then get covered up as well (ex Gray)

 

[PutuporShutup]

Hinish, sure. Gray and Bowen are, at minimum, above average power 4 players. They are not being put in positions to succeed and not being coached to their strengths. So, of course they will individually look bad at times, but check draft boards.

my understanding is both are falling on boards, potentially significantly to where it's not even much of a decision to return or not.

 

[Dale]

my understanding is both are falling on boards, potentially significantly to where it's not even much of a decision to return or not.

and you’ve gotten this info from???

 

[PutuporShutup]

and you’ve gotten this info from???

If I say insider do I get run off the board? lol

A friend of mine, ex NFL player that didn't play for ND but grew up an ND fan. It's why I have no practice or recruiting info. I don't think he has any firm information, but he seemed pretty confident. 4.8 40 LBs and corners that can't cover probably tend to not go early in drafts.

 

[Dale]

I don't think he has any firm information

 

[PutuporShutup]

The reality is there isn't firm or even close to firm boards or information right now, I assume you realize that.

What was "confirmed" to me was gray was slipping significantly after the end of last season and the assumption is that slip stays the same/accelerates based on first two game performance/evals. I don't know anything about his injury/surgery, but if he does sit or gets surgery than it's probably obvious the info he's getting is he needs to get healthy and come back.

Bowen - everyone loves the leadership, physicality, concerns over speed and instincts. He wasn't slipping going into the season, but scouts seemed hesitant on his NFL path but also excited to see if a full time focus on football and better weight would pay dividends.

 

[smallz1531]

If I say insider do I get run off the board? lol

A friend of mine, ex NFL player that didn't play for ND but grew up an ND fan. It's why I have no practice or recruiting info. I don't think he has any firm information, but he seemed pretty confident. 4.8 40 LBs and corners that can't cover probably tend to not go early in drafts.

why do you say freeman is clueless schematically wasn't he the hottest dc name at the time. Honest question cause how does one rise to that level and not be good at that? Is it he is just a good recruiter or motivator

 

[PutuporShutup]

why do you say freeman is clueless schematically wasn't he the hottest dc name at the time. Honest question cause how does one rise to that level and not be good at that? Is it he is just a good recruiter or motivator

The clueless comment is opinion and yes a bit exaggerated. But i truly do not think he's very good.

Freeman is a very good recruiter, very likeable with players, parents, admin, fans, etc. I'm not ready to say great motivator as I feel the team hasn't played as hard as they should the first 2 games. Here's my take on why he isn't as good schematically.

He made his name as a DC at Cincy - Fickell was the HC and Fickell is a very very good defensive guy. It was Luke's D. Cincy D was even better the year after Freeman left for ND.

First year at ND taking a talented ND defense that was darn good the year before. He has Foskey and or ademilola dropping in coverage a ton, he has no clue how to contain running QBs, breakdowns in the D everywhere the first 2 games. Brian (Offensive minded) Kelly had to step in and force change and a re structure to the defense. We then started playing better, until the bowl game.

He gets Al golden to ND and our D does very well, golden leaves and freeman hires in a failed coach and the both have them set the D back with a lot of talent and experience. We have clear issues vs Miami, we have two weeks for ash/freeman to fix them. The issues get significantly worse at home vs A&M. It's scheme, what they're asking the players to do, then fundamentals.

I like freeman as a HC/CEO but he needs stud coordinators

 

[SoIll]

The clueless comment is opinion and yes a bit exaggerated. But i truly do not think he's very good.

Freeman is a very good recruiter, very likeable with players, parents, admin, fans, etc. I'm not ready to say great motivator as I feel the team hasn't played as hard as they should the first 2 games. Here's my take on why he isn't as good schematically.

He made his name as a DC at Cincy - Fickell was the HC and Fickell is a very very good defensive guy. It was Luke's D. Cincy D was even better the year after Freeman left for ND.

First year at ND taking a talented ND defense that was darn good the year before. He has Foskey and or ademilola dropping in coverage a ton, he has no clue how to contain running QBs, breakdowns in the D everywhere the first 2 games. Brian (Offensive minded) Kelly had to step in and force change and a re structure to the defense. We then started playing better, until the bowl game.

He gets Al golden to ND and our D does very well, golden leaves and freeman hires in a failed coach and the both have them set the D back with a lot of talent and experience. We have clear issues vs Miami, we have two weeks for ash/freeman to fix them. The issues get significantly worse at home vs A&M. It's scheme, what they're asking the players to do, then fundamentals.

I like freeman as a HC/CEO but he needs stud coordinators

100% agreed. Get ready to take some flack here, but spot on brother.

Solid CEO, yes. Football savant, no.

 

[KMac151993]

You also don't want a CEO that hits only 50% of the time. For Al Golden he also hired Gerald Parker.

 

[ColinKSU]

You also don't want a CEO that hits only 50% of the time. For Al Golden he also hired Gerald Parker.

A CEO who hits 50% would be *miraculous* going off of the CEOs I've worked under.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

A CEO who hits 50% would be *miraculous* going off of the CEOs I've worked under.

As a “CEO”, I concur.

 

[NDFAN2008]

You also don't want a CEO that hits only 50% of the time. For Al Golden he also hired Gerald Parker.

Well Kelly only hit about 25% of the time. I will also add he lost 35% of recruits because he was a lazy recruiter.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Well Kelly only hit about 25% of the time. I will also add he lost 35% of recruits because he was a lazy recruiter.

I believe only 15% of this post is accurate

 

[Dale]

So the discussion is Freeman needs good coordinators to have a good team, just to clarify?

Is there any active coaches that doesn’t apply to?

Freeman is not a Xs and Os guy by nature no, but he also stopped being a DC too early to even get to that elite point, he was a DC for only 5 years and done by age 35. There aren’t many (any) schematic gurus that aren’t heavily seasoned and gone through years of adapting and tinkering and development.

 

[NDFAN2008]

I believe only 15% of this post is accurate

Yeah I mean Kellys hit rate for DC's wasn't bad his only bad higher was BVG, offensive coordinators he had a good track record, it's the other assistant coach spots he was lacking in.