I
irishu
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Averaging half as many points as she did last year
2024-2025 Notre Dame Women's Basketball
- Thread starter ab2cmiller
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I
irishu
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Citron and Hidalgo are our only good players, and only Hidalgo is on today
I
irishu
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Wtf was that attempt by Westbeld???
I
irishu
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If Duke could hit their wide open shots this game would be over
laughingirish92
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don't know how the irish come back to win because Duke is just the tougher team and playing ilke they want it more
Madmasher67
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Someone needs to light a fire under them. They are playing uninspired basketball
I
irishu
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Hidalgo is scoring great, but honestly she’s missing all the reads when she’s getting double teamed at the point
IrishTusker
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Questions have to be asked about the coaching. It is what it is. Way too much talent for this.
laughingirish92
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this may end up being the worst loss all year as i haven't seen this bad of offense all season from this team
Old Man Mike
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I write this as a capsule instance of what Ivey is finding out, and why the team is in trouble ... in case you wonder why Ivey took Miles out after what seemed like "just another play": we were in a zone (Hannah and Olivia on top.) Duke moved the ball to Hannah's side. Olivia, standing straight up and no athletic position, slowly walked inwards, the ball came back to her area, and, BANG, three. Just effing lazy.
I
irishu
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Get a fucking board!
Blazers46
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This team isn’t what it was.
IrishTusker
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Another S16 appearance isn't good enough with a team this talented. We'll see what Ivey and the coaches have, and if the players step up too, but the lull in performance has lasted several weeks and not been fixed.
I
irishu
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Koval needs to hit the gym, get in shape, and learn how to play center. How was she a 5 star?
Madmasher67
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This!!!! And The wife and I were just talking. It almost seems like there's something going on internally within the team. This is not the same team from a month ago.
Old Man Mike
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I have a bunch of comments, probably not all accurate, but this is a fan's thread so what-the-hell?:
A. Earlier in the season when we were so fun to watch, the opposing coaches couldn't see enough to get exactly what was wrong with us and how to best avoid strength and exploit weaknesses. However, they increasingly found out. Now with most excellent looking teams, these weaknesses are not voluminous nor usually super-harmful, but ours, sadly, are. I'll make a list:
B. You don't mess with Hannah Hidalgo if you have the ball. Just stuff your ego, and give it to someone else. A strong head coach would have to be no nonsense with her point guard about that;
C. In Notre Dame's pick and roll, the picker never gets the ball efficiently time wise. So hard-edge the ball (Hannah or Olivia) until it's given up awkwardly. This stops their (NDs) main half court play, and they don't seem to have any others. The old Muffet McGraw inner passing back cutting Princeton offense is basically gone;
D. Olivia Miles cannot play any defense for longer than a count of three if that. She is constantly NOT in athletic flex-kneed position, and therefore changes defensive direction a full count after the action has occurred. Even if "we" (the opponent now speaking) miss the play, she will still be so out of position that everyone else they have will be caught in-between reacting to her matador play.
E. Say the same thing about Maddy Westbeld. It's not as obvious here as she's not "outside" as much. But she plays so soft inside, that challenge her every chance you get. Especially with the ball coming into her hands, swipe at it. She has no hand strength on the ball whatever. It will bobble away.
F. Be physical with everybody. Hidalgo, Citron, and some others can take it, but none of the team typically comes out ahead in physical confrontations in the paint or on the floor. Hidalgo, Citron, King, and Prosper will get on the floor effectively but even then are not particularly physically-aggressive about it. (Too damm ladylike.)
G. Allow King to receive the ball foul-line extended and see if she'll shoot it. That is not usually what she thinks to do. Instead she will attempt an internal pass to the post, which she will throw too long every time. Their coaching staff has oddly not emphasized that she shoot that easy shot. Karlen is almost a twin of this, although you have to play her a little closer. She too will try post-to-post and throw bad passes half the time. If Prosper instead is in there (as she is rarely), make sure she tries to pass. That will be another turnover. This team is one of the worst interior post-passing teams in the ACC.
H. Citron is a shutdown small forward. She will be on "our" best perimeter scorer. There is no need to challenge her by forcing it. Their other defensive liabilities will give us plenty of opportunities elsewhere.
So, don't mess about with Hidalgo and Citron, and exploit Miles and Westbeld and slow-footed posts. Stopping the hidalgo theft-machine will limit their offense to half court, where they largely stink if their dribble penetration can be minimized. Fortunately, it is easily possible to overplay that dribble penetration because of the poor post catching ability, and softness on the ball of most of the other players. Their points should go way down. It is also vitally important to almost assign a player to body King on every play to minimize second opportunities. It was another hidden ND secret that they rolled when King stole ten extra possessions per game.
.... and so, in my fantasy analysis, ND rolled before the coaches of the good athletic high-effort teams could analyze the play and personnel, but that has been accomplished by now, and instead of a team of All-Americans, the team has revealed itself as a team with one All-American (Hannah), two pretty good solid players (Soni and Liatu), two terribly flawed and exploitable (despite talents) players (Olivia and Maddy) who each have an unforgivable laziness about them, and three players who try very hard but can't seem to quite get there. So, who are we? We're what one usually calls a "dangerous" team. If the secondary (to Hannah) players are working hard and making shots, VERY HARD to beat. If not, the other guys win an ugly game.
A. Earlier in the season when we were so fun to watch, the opposing coaches couldn't see enough to get exactly what was wrong with us and how to best avoid strength and exploit weaknesses. However, they increasingly found out. Now with most excellent looking teams, these weaknesses are not voluminous nor usually super-harmful, but ours, sadly, are. I'll make a list:
B. You don't mess with Hannah Hidalgo if you have the ball. Just stuff your ego, and give it to someone else. A strong head coach would have to be no nonsense with her point guard about that;
C. In Notre Dame's pick and roll, the picker never gets the ball efficiently time wise. So hard-edge the ball (Hannah or Olivia) until it's given up awkwardly. This stops their (NDs) main half court play, and they don't seem to have any others. The old Muffet McGraw inner passing back cutting Princeton offense is basically gone;
D. Olivia Miles cannot play any defense for longer than a count of three if that. She is constantly NOT in athletic flex-kneed position, and therefore changes defensive direction a full count after the action has occurred. Even if "we" (the opponent now speaking) miss the play, she will still be so out of position that everyone else they have will be caught in-between reacting to her matador play.
E. Say the same thing about Maddy Westbeld. It's not as obvious here as she's not "outside" as much. But she plays so soft inside, that challenge her every chance you get. Especially with the ball coming into her hands, swipe at it. She has no hand strength on the ball whatever. It will bobble away.
F. Be physical with everybody. Hidalgo, Citron, and some others can take it, but none of the team typically comes out ahead in physical confrontations in the paint or on the floor. Hidalgo, Citron, King, and Prosper will get on the floor effectively but even then are not particularly physically-aggressive about it. (Too damm ladylike.)
G. Allow King to receive the ball foul-line extended and see if she'll shoot it. That is not usually what she thinks to do. Instead she will attempt an internal pass to the post, which she will throw too long every time. Their coaching staff has oddly not emphasized that she shoot that easy shot. Karlen is almost a twin of this, although you have to play her a little closer. She too will try post-to-post and throw bad passes half the time. If Prosper instead is in there (as she is rarely), make sure she tries to pass. That will be another turnover. This team is one of the worst interior post-passing teams in the ACC.
H. Citron is a shutdown small forward. She will be on "our" best perimeter scorer. There is no need to challenge her by forcing it. Their other defensive liabilities will give us plenty of opportunities elsewhere.
So, don't mess about with Hidalgo and Citron, and exploit Miles and Westbeld and slow-footed posts. Stopping the hidalgo theft-machine will limit their offense to half court, where they largely stink if their dribble penetration can be minimized. Fortunately, it is easily possible to overplay that dribble penetration because of the poor post catching ability, and softness on the ball of most of the other players. Their points should go way down. It is also vitally important to almost assign a player to body King on every play to minimize second opportunities. It was another hidden ND secret that they rolled when King stole ten extra possessions per game.
.... and so, in my fantasy analysis, ND rolled before the coaches of the good athletic high-effort teams could analyze the play and personnel, but that has been accomplished by now, and instead of a team of All-Americans, the team has revealed itself as a team with one All-American (Hannah), two pretty good solid players (Soni and Liatu), two terribly flawed and exploitable (despite talents) players (Olivia and Maddy) who each have an unforgivable laziness about them, and three players who try very hard but can't seem to quite get there. So, who are we? We're what one usually calls a "dangerous" team. If the secondary (to Hannah) players are working hard and making shots, VERY HARD to beat. If not, the other guys win an ugly game.
stpeteirish
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Internal conflict? That’s on the coaching too. Dysfunctional team no clue how to play team ball
stpeteirish
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You misspelled terrible
irishff1014
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The way this team is playing right this minute they won’t win a natty.
Fixed that for you...
Chicago Domer
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The Irish look nothing like the team that steamrolled through much of the ACC season.
In a lot of games lately Hidalgo shoots well under 50%. She’s lost something. Even in this game she was 9 for 22. In the 2 losses to NC State and Florida State she was 8 for 26 and 4 for 18 (a combined 27%).
Is she taking bad shots/trying to do too much or is she just off. She seems ok physically. Maybe just a slump.
What’s your read???
In a lot of games lately Hidalgo shoots well under 50%. She’s lost something. Even in this game she was 9 for 22. In the 2 losses to NC State and Florida State she was 8 for 26 and 4 for 18 (a combined 27%).
Is she taking bad shots/trying to do too much or is she just off. She seems ok physically. Maybe just a slump.
What’s your read???
Old Man Mike
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Well, Duke just made us look slightly better by crushing NCState in the second half to walk away with the ACC championship.
We still have all the flaws that we've talked about, but to outsiders they will not dump on us quite so much (though we deserve it.)
Watching Duke, it demonstrates what a really good coach, who always honored defense and every play hustle, can achieve.
I can say that I watched them play several games now and rarely found myself cringing at how they play moment to moment.
Talent wise, player-to-player, they do not measure up to an ACC champion. ... but they sure are.
We still have all the flaws that we've talked about, but to outsiders they will not dump on us quite so much (though we deserve it.)
Watching Duke, it demonstrates what a really good coach, who always honored defense and every play hustle, can achieve.
I can say that I watched them play several games now and rarely found myself cringing at how they play moment to moment.
Talent wise, player-to-player, they do not measure up to an ACC champion. ... but they sure are.
UPMich_NDfan
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Hoping this week off has given the chance for Ivey to right the ship. Selection Sunday tomorrow. I’ve seen us in with UCLA in a few scenarios, i think that might be best case?
Old Man Mike
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Most of this is not worth sweating. Women's NCAA is almost always Chalk until the final 8. Then you just have to beat the best anyway.
UPMich_NDfan
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I’ve got tickets for the Final 4. I’ll have to super bummed teenagers if ND is not there!