Another Shooting

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ColoradoIrish

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It is a shithole. What have you done to help those poors in Aurora? Or is it something we just wait for government to handle? I only ask because Colorado is a very nice place and you legit drive 10-15 minutes from the now infamous Venezuelan gang complex and you bump into million dollar homes and the Raytheon’s, Lockheed and globs of other government contractors raking in the big bucks. Ironically there is an ICE facility there that by looks of it is under utilized….

Besides the scenic views I would take Lake Michigan over CO any day but that’s just me. You can’t even stop and take a piss in CO because all the bathrooms are locked because of the homeless issues. I’m old, I got a 10 minutes window to pee and 3 minute window to take a shit… not feasible for me lol.
Nothing because I still live paycheck to paycheck to afford rent, groceries, student loans and everything else that goes into living. I'm one of those millennials that can't afford a down payment for a house and stuck being at the whim of a landlord.

The weather is infinitely better here than the Midwest and it's not even close. We get the most sun of any state, it's not humid here, so I can go outside when it's a 100 degrees and not be sticky and sweaty, the winters are much wilder than one would think. It's going to be in the 60s this weekend. My wife and I don't have to worry about healthcare access being revoked, and I can still have my guns. It's a damn great place to live.
 

TorontoGold

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Average Joes don’t want to live average lives. This month is a perfect example. There will be so many average joes over reaching and extending themselves this Christmas and by February will be in collections. You ever drive through a trailer park and see $60K trucks? Pride is why people cannot eat rice and beans. My family lived in a camper for 16 months and we essentially eat rice beans to get over a slight hump. People can do it. It’s people like @GATTACA! that think these people are living like cockroaches that keep people from swallowing their pride and taking a step back.
For sure, again I don’t disagree with the sentiment that people stretch themselves thin. Generally speaking I agree with a lot of what you’re saying.

I’m just asking how can someone make it work on 42k to raise a kid(s) off that. Irish#1 has stated it’s possible, I would love to see how it is.
 

Blazers46

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For sure, again I don’t disagree with the sentiment that people stretch themselves thin. Generally speaking I agree with a lot of what you’re saying.

I’m just asking how can someone make it work on 42k to raise a kid(s) off that. Irish#1 has stated it’s possible, I would love to see how it is.
I lived in a $20k camper for 16 months with 3 kids and a wife. After 5 months I feel like we could have made it work for an eternity.

The problem with the poors and the middle class is that their pride won’t let them appear to be poor or middle class. They need to be home owners or renters with a $1500 rent or $2000 mortgage then complain they aren’t making a living wage. Kids need their own rooms so they aren’t living like cockroaches. Yesterday while doing some random googling as it relates to this conversation I was seeing that in the US we average 1000sqft of house PER PERSON!! Back in the old days (dare I even bring up the old days) it used to be 300-500sqft per person. Homes are much much larger today as well. Part of being a responsible person is to accept some reality. Your minimum wage job shouldn’t afford someone 2000sqft of space to support a family. Go buy a pop up camper for $2000 on marketplace and rent a spot somewhere until you can save some money or increase your skills to increase your income.
 

Blazers46

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Nothing because I still live paycheck to paycheck to afford rent, groceries, student loans and everything else that goes into living. I'm one of those millennials that can't afford a down payment for a house and stuck being at the whim of a landlord.

The weather is infinitely better here than the Midwest and it's not even close. We get the most sun of any state, it's not humid here, so I can go outside when it's a 100 degrees and not be sticky and sweaty, the winters are much wilder than one would think. It's going to be in the 60s this weekend. My wife and I don't have to worry about healthcare access being revoked, and I can still have my guns. It's a damn great place to live.
Great place to live, sure but Paycheck to paycheck… I don’t want to make it personal but what do you pay for rent? What is stopping you from downsizing? You just said you’d take CO anyway but cost of living is much much better here than there. You know how fast you could get out of debt by just living in a camper for even a year? You willing to make those kind of sacrifices or waiting for something to change or waiting government? What is your plan?
 
C

ColoradoIrish

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Great place to live, sure but Paycheck to paycheck… I don’t want to make it personal but what do you pay for rent? What is stopping you from downsizing? You just said you’d take CO anyway but cost of living is much much better here than there. You know how fast you could get out of debt by just living in a camper for even a year? You willing to make those kind of sacrifices or waiting for something to change or waiting government? What is your plan?
Do you want to truly have a conversation about this?
 

RDU Irish

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Come to my neighborhood, which is primary Indian families, and take notes. About half of them only have one car and young kids. Several are stay at home moms.

You will find a crap ton of grandparents living with their kids too - family is a great hack for reducing your cost of living. Add a couple of SS checks to the mix of a household budget on top of no more baby sitters, day care, help with meals .... look down on those "cockroaches" while they get ahead and build strong families.
 

Blazers46

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You will find a crap ton of grandparents living with their kids too - family is a great hack for reducing your cost of living. Add a couple of SS checks to the mix of a household budget on top of no more baby sitters, day care, help with meals .... look down on those "cockroaches" while they get ahead and build strong families.
Mexican families, Indian families… pretty much any non American family that is used to swallowing their pride are able to coexist in multi family homes.
 

RDU Irish

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I lived in a $20k camper for 16 months with 3 kids and a wife. After 5 months I feel like we could have made it work for an eternity.

The problem with the poors and the middle class is that their pride won’t let them appear to be poor or middle class. They need to be home owners or renters with a $1500 rent or $2000 mortgage then complain they aren’t making a living wage. Kids need their own rooms so they aren’t living like cockroaches. Yesterday while doing some random googling as it relates to this conversation I was seeing that in the US we average 1000sqft of house PER PERSON!! Back in the old days (dare I even bring up the old days) it used to be 300-500sqft per person. Homes are much much larger today as well. Part of being a responsible person is to accept some reality. Your minimum wage job shouldn’t afford someone 2000sqft of space to support a family. Go buy a pop up camper for $2000 on marketplace and rent a spot somewhere until you can save some money or increase your skills to increase your income.

WAIT A MINUTE! Who said anything about working for it? Easy there slave driver!

Lots of ways to spend less, the problem is refusal to move backwards. You expect the college student who lived a posh pseudo country club experience at a place like Notre Dame to buy a camper to pay off their $300k loans that were needed to subsidize that four years of enlightenment? Spoil them rotten in college so they can't comprehend sacrifice and watch them lose their mind when their poly sci degree can't get them any better than a $50k job. Meanwhile, that loser in HS who isn't Enlighted has been making six figures as a pest control service tech, buying a house and his wife is home schooling the kids. Probably some MAGA douche who thinks you should pay your own student loans off doing Doordash on the weekends instead of crying to Uncle Sam.

Now they can even get their own room as freshmen at lots of colleges - how dare you make me share space! I'm an entitled American dammit!
 

RDU Irish

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Mexican families, Indian families… pretty much any non American family that is used to swallowing their pride are able to coexist in multi family homes.

Its not even swallowing pride - they take pride in being involved in each other's lives and supporting each other. I am jealous - both my parents and my wife's parents have no interest in being involved and live a very isolated and IMO selfish existence. I think we got one weekend out of one and two hours out of the other as far as watching out kids for us in 21 years. But hey, we have money so we can afford to pay for someone to take our family's place - American Dream baby!
 

Blazers46

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WAIT A MINUTE! Who said anything about working for it? Easy there slave driver!

Lots of ways to spend less, the problem is refusal to move backwards. You expect the college student who lived a posh pseudo country club experience at a place like Notre Dame to buy a camper to pay off their $300k loans that were needed to subsidize that four years of enlightenment? Spoil them rotten in college so they can't comprehend sacrifice and watch them lose their mind when their poly sci degree can't get them any better than a $50k job. Meanwhile, that loser in HS who isn't Enlighted has been making six figures as a pest control service tech, buying a house and his wife is home schooling the kids. Probably some MAGA douche who thinks you should pay your own student loans off doing Doordash on the weekends instead of crying to Uncle Sam.

Now they can even get their own room as freshmen at lots of colleges - how dare you make me share space! I'm an entitled American dammit!
I owned a retail store and caught a guy stealing. He as arrested and later came back and asked for a job. I drove him to the grocery store and we bought a wheeled cooler, ice, and water. He made $300 that day standing on the corner selling water. As far as I know he still does it to this day or maybe he found something better but it was something so simple that (at least for the moment) changed his circumstance. Even at $200 per day for 5 days per week the guy would be making about $50k.
 

RDU Irish

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I owned a retail store and caught a guy stealing. He as arrested and later came back and asked for a job. I drove him to the grocery store and we bought a wheeled cooler, ice, and water. He made $300 that day standing on the corner selling water. As far as I know he still does it to this day or maybe he found something better but it was something so simple that (at least for the moment) changed his circumstance. Even at $200 per day for 5 days per week the guy would be making about $50k.

I am appalled - how dare you teach a man to fish! Good news at least, our new 87,000 IRS agents can make sure he is reporting that so 15% can go to FICA.
 

Blazers46

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I am appalled - how dare you teach a man to fish! Good news at least, our new 87,000 IRS agents can make sure he is reporting that so 15% can go to FICA.
Government making the world a better equitable place.
 
C

ColoradoIrish

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You live in one of the highest cost of living states and admit to be living paycheck to paycheck. You are basically who everyone is talking about… enlighten us.
I lost my income at the beginning of COVID, we moved back to Illinois spring 2020, when our lease was up, and lived with my parents while my wife was able to work remote and she was working on her masters degree. We focused on paying off any private student loans and debt we had while we were my family. I switched careers from finance to IT during this time, got a few IT certs, and was lucky enough to find a job in a retail shop fixing computers during COVID. Pay was shit being minimum wage but it was experience. About a year and a half later my wife's company requires employees back in the office, I find a job back in Denver and it about doubled my salary. About 6 weeks after we moved back she got laid off. Still had to pay to finish her degree. She's been working odd jobs to make money, and I've continued to grow my salary but unexpected costs have popped up making it difficult to rebuild savings. We moved from Denver to Chicago twice within 18 months and then had to replace a car.

I'm at interesting point in my career because my years of experience, education and background make it difficult to get my foot in the door with new companies. I was fortunate start off at my current company when we moved back in a help desk role and worked my ass off too get to my current role. If anyone knows anything about IT jobs companies have completely different job titles from the actual role. My current title is IT system analyst, when my role is a Citrix virtual desktop engineer. Problem is I barely have 4 years of general IT experience and can't get an interview for the jobs I'm applying for because job postings require 5-10 years experience and I simply don't have that. We have another 3 months of our current financial situation and then I'll finally be back on solid footing and rebuilding my savings. The goal is to move further north, Greeley/fort Collins area where the cost of living is cheaper than Denver. We just got stuck here because of my wife's job at the time.

Similarly to you I work for a government entity, so while my pay is a little lower than market rate I have some excellent benefits like working remotely, healthcare for my wife and I is super affordable. We've been living and renting from some friends since April, who my wife works for. And it's allowed us an avenue to get out of our crappy financial situation.
 

Blazers46

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I lost my income at the beginning of COVID, we moved back to Illinois spring 2020, when our lease was up, and lived with my parents while my wife was able to work remote and she was working on her masters degree. We focused on paying off any private student loans and debt we had while we were my family. I switched careers from finance to IT during this time, got a few IT certs, and was lucky enough to find a job in a retail shop fixing computers during COVID. Pay was shit being minimum wage but it was experience. About a year and a half later my wife's company requires employees back in the office, I find a job back in Denver and it about doubled my salary. About 6 weeks after we moved back she got laid off. Still had to pay to finish her degree. She's been working odd jobs to make money, and I've continued to grow my salary but unexpected costs have popped up making it difficult to rebuild savings. We moved from Denver to Chicago twice within 18 months and then had to replace a car.

I'm at interesting point in my career because my years of experience, education and background make it difficult to get my foot in the door with new companies. I was fortunate start off at my current company when we moved back in a help desk role and worked my ass off too get to my current role. If anyone knows anything about IT jobs companies have completely different job titles from the actual role. My current title is IT system analyst, when my role is a Citrix virtual desktop engineer. Problem is I barely have 4 years of general IT experience and can't get an interview for the jobs I'm applying for because job postings require 5-10 years experience and I simply don't have that. We have another 3 months of our current financial situation and then I'll finally be back on solid footing and rebuilding my savings. The goal is to move further north, Greeley/fort Collins area where the cost of living is cheaper than Denver. We just got stuck here because of my wife's job at the time.

Similarly to you I work for a government entity, so while my pay is a little lower than market rate I have some excellent benefits like working remotely, healthcare for my wife and I is super affordable. We've been living and renting from some friends since April, who my wife works for. And it's allowed us an avenue to get out of our crappy financial situation.
So basically you are renting and living with friends, both work and still living paycheck to paycheck?
 

Irish#1

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I lost my income at the beginning of COVID, we moved back to Illinois spring 2020, when our lease was up, and lived with my parents while my wife was able to work remote and she was working on her masters degree. We focused on paying off any private student loans and debt we had while we were my family. I switched careers from finance to IT during this time, got a few IT certs, and was lucky enough to find a job in a retail shop fixing computers during COVID. Pay was shit being minimum wage but it was experience. About a year and a half later my wife's company requires employees back in the office, I find a job back in Denver and it about doubled my salary. About 6 weeks after we moved back she got laid off. Still had to pay to finish her degree. She's been working odd jobs to make money, and I've continued to grow my salary but unexpected costs have popped up making it difficult to rebuild savings. We moved from Denver to Chicago twice within 18 months and then had to replace a car.

I'm at interesting point in my career because my years of experience, education and background make it difficult to get my foot in the door with new companies. I was fortunate start off at my current company when we moved back in a help desk role and worked my ass off too get to my current role. If anyone knows anything about IT jobs companies have completely different job titles from the actual role. My current title is IT system analyst, when my role is a Citrix virtual desktop engineer. Problem is I barely have 4 years of general IT experience and can't get an interview for the jobs I'm applying for because job postings require 5-10 years experience and I simply don't have that. We have another 3 months of our current financial situation and then I'll finally be back on solid footing and rebuilding my savings. The goal is to move further north, Greeley/fort Collins area where the cost of living is cheaper than Denver. We just got stuck here because of my wife's job at the time.

Similarly to you I work for a government entity, so while my pay is a little lower than market rate I have some excellent benefits like working remotely, healthcare for my wife and I is super affordable. We've been living and renting from some friends since April, who my wife works for. And it's allowed us an avenue to get out of our crappy financial situation.
You figured a way. Nice.

Been in IT since '72. I know what you mean about titles.
 

Blazers46

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Yes, you asked how it was possible to be in my situation and I told you.
I’m not sure I needed all the backstory context. To sum it all up… you live with friends and I assume pay rent to these friends. On a double income you are still living paycheck to paycheck working for the government. I’m still genuinely curious how much rent seems to still be too much in a dual household income with 3 to 4 working people and you are still living paycheck to paycheck. Is income the problem or cost of living the problem? You seem skilled in something… I’m just trying to understand where you are coming from. Also what is stopping you from downsizing… or I guess leaving such a high cost of living area.
 

Sea Turtle

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So how does one afford to live on $42K (the median individual income) in the US? How does the average Joe make it work?

How old are they, and when did they buy their homes?

Honest question, as an economics student, what happened?

A man could support a family and have a decent house and car on one average income. Now it takes two just to stay afloat and be up to your eyes in debt. 'Those were the days' as the Bunkers sang.

I'd like to have your unbiased, non political, thoughts on the matter. What happened, when did it happen, was it inevitable, could it have been stopped, can it be reversed?

Just when you have time and can post a thoughtful response, it would be appreciated.
 
C

ColoradoIrish

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You figured a way. Nice.

Been in IT since '72. I know what you mean about titles.
Goal is for this time next year to be in the market after seeing where things are. Grabbing a few advanced certs to hopefully offset my years of experience and lack of quality titles
 
C

ColoradoIrish

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I’m not sure I needed all the backstory context. To sum it all up… you live with friends and I assume pay rent to these friends. On a double income you are still living paycheck to paycheck working for the government. I’m still genuinely curious how much rent seems to still be too much in a dual household income with 3 to 4 working people and you are still living paycheck to paycheck. Is income the problem or cost of living the problem? You seem skilled in something… I’m just trying to understand where you are coming from. Also what is stopping you from downsizing… or I guess leaving such a high cost of living area.
We can't downsize as much as we would like because we can't get down payment together for a smaller place. If we were lucky to find a 1200$ a month place we'd need damn near 4k for it. The backstory matters because we were forced to build up debt. When she lost her she was around 70% of it total income. We were living off of credit cards just to pay the basics. We couldn't afford to get out lease for 2 years because of it all. We budgeted our move and everything off her salary that we lost and just couldn't magically replace. We are a single car family which worked when she was working remotely, but now she needed the car for odd jobs she could pick up. While I needed it to get to and from work. I started working the 3rd shift at the hospital for the extra ok at differential.
 
C

ColoradoIrish

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You probably know this already, but make sure some of those certs are in security.
Gonna be azure and Citrix virtual desktop and then security for the environments. I just hate freaking studying for this crap and wish you didn't have to have them to get an interview. But you gotta play the game
 

Irish#1

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Honest question, as an economics student, what happened?

A man could support a family and have a decent house and car on one average income. Now it takes two just to stay afloat and be up to your eyes in debt. 'Those were the days' as the Bunkers sang.

I'd like to have your unbiased, non political, thoughts on the matter. What happened, when did it happen, was it inevitable, could it have been stopped, can it be reversed?

Just when you have time and can post a thoughtful response, it would be appreciated.
We married in '73 and 10 months later had our first. Our rent at the time was $110. We got a notice that it was being raised to $135. Once we had our first one the wife quit working and our income was $6K - $6.5K. I was upset about the raise in rent and decided if we were going to pay that much we might as well own a home. We borrowed $2K from my dad for a down payment and got our first house for $28K or somewhere in that range. Our payment was $190. $135 was going to stretch us, but $190 looked impossible. Each of us owned our own cars when we married. We sold one and basically cut back or way down on everything else. Especially when #2 showed up in '75. #3 came in 81. #4 & #5 came in 85 & 86. She wanted another girl but no luck, so we quit at 5. I increased my salary to keep up by taking new jobs because they paid better. We ate a lot of potatoes back then. Bought generic brand groceries and the kids got hand me downs a lot. We didn't have two cars until around '90 when she went back to work. We improved our housing by selling after prices went up so we made enough to upgrade, but keep our payment close to the same. Once the youngest was in school, she went full time and we bought our current home. Once my salary allowed it, she quit to be home when the kids got home from school.

You can compare the COL and economy from then to today and say it's tougher now and it may be, but it's not that much of a difference as some think. It was tough back then as well. My point is if you're committed to having someone home with the kids all the time, you'll find a way.
 

TorontoGold

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Honest question, as an economics student, what happened?

A man could support a family and have a decent house and car on one average income. Now it takes two just to stay afloat and be up to your eyes in debt. 'Those were the days' as the Bunkers sang.

I'd like to have your unbiased, non political, thoughts on the matter. What happened, when did it happen, was it inevitable, could it have been stopped, can it be reversed?

Just when you have time and can post a thoughtful response, it would be appreciated.

FTR - I specialized in macroeconomics when pursuing my degree, so my specialty is more to that. But I did study micro at a high enough level that I *think* I do have some expertise here.

Really started under Reagan and it's taught in school using the Laffer curve theory which tries to plot the "optimal taxation" which is obviously way more difficult than a stupid chart. It suggested that optimal tax rates would be at 70% and for most OCED countries it would be around that point.

Why is Reagan important? He lead the largest charge towards reducing tax rates and splitting the increase in productivity that was seen in the US through it's incredibly strong economy and the gains were now being further sheltered in the top tax levels. Of course the upside to this is that if you're a wealthy person or from a wealthy family you're reaping the rewards of Reagan today. If you're not? Well, you're pretty much capped at how well you can do.

Now, having low tax rates isn't the only issue with what happened in the 80's and continued on. Allowing companies to operate in monopolies or in oligopolies with reduction of controls/restraints allowed for the best and brightest minds in the world (located in the US) to find ways to further consolidate power and money within the most well off.

There is an upside to this and it's not to say that Reagan didn't promote economic growth for the US, he did, it's just that the fruits of that are more shared amongst the top levels and less so as you go further down. If Reagan had used the gains he made to increase/modernize social safety nets he could have cemented himself as one of the greatest presidents of all time. One area I think Reagan should've/could've used his cache as deregulating is to have a more robust social security program where it gives the SSA the ability to invest in securities that are not just US Treasury securities. You have the best and smartest financial minds in the planet, have them manage the SSA and allow them to invest the funds into US projects/equities. The issue of oversight will be a concern, but this would be the most sought after and scrutinized portfolio in the world. You can take the leaders of all the biggest money managers and have the portfolio split between them to limit the influence of one firm.

Well no president has offered any solution to the SSA so it's not just Reagan's fault - just that it would have been right up his alley to do something like that.

So Reagan laid the groundwork for the current situation today, Clinton essentially brought the gasoline and lit that fire. Clinton lowered taxes on small businesses, as someone who regularly deals with small businesses it is a term that covers a WIDE swath and gives a bunch of people a nice way to tax plan. He also basically laid the groundwork for the 2007/2008 recession with the GLBA that repealed Glass-Steagal and at a high level gave financial institutions a mandate to do whatever they'd like. This also lead to consolidation in the industry and we know how that works in terms of giving consumers choice and pricing options.

After Clinton everything was already on a crash course that lead to the "Great Recession" and really GWB wasn't going to stop the trainwreck.

Obama offered a vision of change but did little to bridge the gap between the haves and have nots and just continued on the neoliberal ideals and passed the buck down.

The current state of the economy is essentially super late stage capitalism where the general populace is seeing consolidations of industries, jobs offshored to other countries, spending more on things but getting less and the major parties are offering you 1) Cut spending and reduce taxes (further expanding the gap transferring more wealth upward) 2) Continued neoliberal economic policies where there is only performative actions but no meaningful change (further expanding the gap just a frog in a pot boiling).

People don't mind paying taxes and doing their fair share, it's just that the government has not spent the money well and people aren't getting any improvements to their life and are frustrated seeing places around the world have more safety nets for their citizens despite not having the powerhouse economy.

TLDR - Neoliberal economic policies are why we're at where we are and it's thanks to Reagan/Clinton.
 

Irish#1

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Gonna be azure and Citrix virtual desktop and then security for the environments. I just hate freaking studying for this crap and wish you didn't have to have them to get an interview. But you gotta play the game
I had no experience when I got into IT. I've always kept that in mind when hiring. I've hired people with degrees and some without. Each of my last three Desktop support people had no experience. I like to think I'm returning the favor.
 
C

ColoradoIrish

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I had no experience when I got into IT. I've always kept that in mind when hiring. I've hired people with degrees and some without. Each of my last three Desktop support people had no experience. I like to think I'm returning the favor.
My previous manager was like that and gave me a shot because of my homelab setup and the work I put it on my own. He went to bat for me a few times to help me get into my current position. I'm like you and completely self taught. I have degree in physical education but never used it. Used a bunch of old hardware to build some servers at home, taught my self Linux, networking anything I could. Just building a little prettier experience before my next move
 

Polish Leppy 22

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If your wife was to stop working tomorrow, do you believe the cost savings from her not driving to work + no more childcare allow you guys to live the same life you have today?
Everyone's situation is different.

1) My wife wouldn't stop working because she makes really good money, she works 100% remote and law school wasn't free. She's going to be paying off that loan for years and I can't take that on.

2) Assume my wife is a librarian making $45k a year: yes, she would be at home with two kids. The only thing that would change with our lifestyle is that in 2022 we probably purchased an older home versus the new construction townhouse we got. Probably fewer trips to Starbucks. And instead of her expensive Pilates classes she loves, she's probably joining me at LA Fitness.

We don't drive fancy/ expensive cars. We don't spend much on clothes. We don't go on vacations at all because my in laws live at the beach. We live within our means and again, we didn't start a family until we were ready to support a family.
 

Sea Turtle

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FTR - I specialized in macroeconomics when pursuing my degree, so my specialty is more to that. But I did study micro at a high enough level that I *think* I do have some expertise here.

Really started under Reagan and it's taught in school using the Laffer curve theory which tries to plot the "optimal taxation" which is obviously way more difficult than a stupid chart. It suggested that optimal tax rates would be at 70% and for most OCED countries it would be around that point.

Why is Reagan important? He lead the largest charge towards reducing tax rates and splitting the increase in productivity that was seen in the US through it's incredibly strong economy and the gains were now being further sheltered in the top tax levels. Of course the upside to this is that if you're a wealthy person or from a wealthy family you're reaping the rewards of Reagan today. If you're not? Well, you're pretty much capped at how well you can do.

Now, having low tax rates isn't the only issue with what happened in the 80's and continued on. Allowing companies to operate in monopolies or in oligopolies with reduction of controls/restraints allowed for the best and brightest minds in the world (located in the US) to find ways to further consolidate power and money within the most well off.

There is an upside to this and it's not to say that Reagan didn't promote economic growth for the US, he did, it's just that the fruits of that are more shared amongst the top levels and less so as you go further down. If Reagan had used the gains he made to increase/modernize social safety nets he could have cemented himself as one of the greatest presidents of all time. One area I think Reagan should've/could've used his cache as deregulating is to have a more robust social security program where it gives the SSA the ability to invest in securities that are not just US Treasury securities. You have the best and smartest financial minds in the planet, have them manage the SSA and allow them to invest the funds into US projects/equities. The issue of oversight will be a concern, but this would be the most sought after and scrutinized portfolio in the world. You can take the leaders of all the biggest money managers and have the portfolio split between them to limit the influence of one firm.

Well no president has offered any solution to the SSA so it's not just Reagan's fault - just that it would have been right up his alley to do something like that.

So Reagan laid the groundwork for the current situation today, Clinton essentially brought the gasoline and lit that fire. Clinton lowered taxes on small businesses, as someone who regularly deals with small businesses it is a term that covers a WIDE swath and gives a bunch of people a nice way to tax plan. He also basically laid the groundwork for the 2007/2008 recession with the GLBA that repealed Glass-Steagal and at a high level gave financial institutions a mandate to do whatever they'd like. This also lead to consolidation in the industry and we know how that works in terms of giving consumers choice and pricing options.

After Clinton everything was already on a crash course that lead to the "Great Recession" and really GWB wasn't going to stop the trainwreck.

Obama offered a vision of change but did little to bridge the gap between the haves and have nots and just continued on the neoliberal ideals and passed the buck down.

The current state of the economy is essentially super late stage capitalism where the general populace is seeing consolidations of industries, jobs offshored to other countries, spending more on things but getting less and the major parties are offering you 1) Cut spending and reduce taxes (further expanding the gap transferring more wealth upward) 2) Continued neoliberal economic policies where there is only performative actions but no meaningful change (further expanding the gap just a frog in a pot boiling).

People don't mind paying taxes and doing their fair share, it's just that the government has not spent the money well and people aren't getting any improvements to their life and are frustrated seeing places around the world have more safety nets for their citizens despite not having the powerhouse economy.

TLDR - Neoliberal economic policies are why we're at where we are and it's thanks to Reagan/Clinton.

Thanks, Toronto. I appreciate the reply and info.
 
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