‘21 AL QB Riley Leonard (Duke Transfer - Notre Dame Verbal)

[GoldenTate(r)Tots]

To me, it seemed RL took the NIU loss straight to his head, played safe/more instinctual football against Purdue (which for him is just go be an athlete and run/safe throws) in order to get his head on straight. I'm not saying he can be a prolific passer or anything close to that, but this week is going to be the most telling to me. A&M was game one, coming off the injury with limited reps, get the rust off, etc. NIU was just pure crap by the whole program, RL included. Purdue was just like I said for him mentally because he strikes me as someone who takes that stuff too hard/can't quite have error amnesia (and perhaps it's due to all the hype he got from the transfer that the pressure is on in a greater way). If he takes steps forward this week, you know it's likely mostly mental (I don't buy physical because after all his runs he didn't show a sign of any pain, including a nasty stiff arm with his non-throwing arm). If he stays as is or regresses, still can be mental but then it's more the indication that he just doesn't have it and you need to move on. With this opponent coming in, there is no reason for him to not be able to mix in the pass with more confidence while also being able to run as he's capable. My two cents and some of you are much more football knowledgeable.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

"Game manager" isn't an official term and you can find a wide variety of definitions, BUT there is a consensus and your definition doesn't fit that consensus. Improvisation has little to do with whether or not a QB is considered a game manager.

The definition of game manager that most football people generally accept is a QB with average stats who doesn't make many mistakes; a QB who won't be the reason to win a game but also won't be a reason to lose one. Most QBs consider the label to be an insult.

Tom Brady definitely was NOT a game manager. Early on in his career people tried to label him as that, but his numbers suggested otherwise. He wasn't average. He was at or near the top of the NFL in TD passes most years and frequently put the team on his back during crunch time in close games. He was the main reason his teams won. He wasn't an average part of the whole.

The quarterback who is currently being mislabeled as a game manager is Brock Purdy. While he might be closer to being a game manager than TB was since he has elite offensive weapons around him, in 2023 he was 5th in passing yards, 3rd in TDs, and led the league in QBR. Elite stats mean he shouldn't be considered a game manager either (not that I'm claiming you said he was).

You are correct that Dilfer was rightly considered a game manager. His teams didn't win because of him but they didn't lose because of him either. The same can't be said of Brady.

When did a game manager become a negative term ? People seem to be confusing style vs concept.

Every offense I've been a part of had a game plan each week, and it was up to everyone to do their job, but especially on the QB to properly implement the plan and manage the game. That could include things like commanding the huddle, getting aligned properly, pre snap reads & adjustments, audibling, progressions reads, check downs, not taking sacks, limiting turnovers etc. All of these things are a part of a QB "managing" a game.

It's a concept to achieve a goal, aka winning. Some are better than others. The ones you listed, Brady, Purdy, and Dilfer are all great game managers.

 

[ab2cmiller]

If a team is winning games primarily because of your quarterback, he is not a game manager.

If quarterback has average throwing skills but can mentally dismantle any defense that you throw at him, and get it to the right person close to 100% of the time……..he is not a game manager. He is the GOAT, because he can do something that almost nobody else can do.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

If a team is winning games primarily because of your quarterback, he is not a game manager.

If quarterback has average throwing skills but can mentally dismantle any defense that you throw at him, and get it to the right person close to 100% of the time……..he is not a game manager. He is the GOAT, because he can do something that almost nobody else can do.

Exactly, unless everyone around them is bootycakes, you don't want your QB making improvised plays all game long. You want them to take care of the football, execute the game plan, and if they have great athletic talents use them when necessary. A QB running around all game really only works in high school.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Exactly, unless everyone around them is bootycakes, you don't want your QB making improvised plays all game long. You want them to take care of the football, execute the game plan, and if they have great athletic talents use them when necessary. A QB running around all game really only works in high school.

I'm confused. You called Brady a great Game Manager. I would argue that he's about the most opposite of a Game Manager as you can get.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

If a team is winning games primarily because of your quarterback, he is not a game manager.

If quarterback has average throwing skills but can mentally dismantle any defense that you throw at him, and get it to the right person close to 100% of the time……..he is not a game manager. He is the GOAT, because he can do something that almost nobody else can do.

He definitely started as a game manager before evolving into what he became.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

He definitely started as a game manager before evolving into what he became.

I’d also argue he improved on his natural abilities that you rarely see: arm got stronger/etc.

 

[Irish#1]

If a team is winning games primarily because of your quarterback, he is not a game manager.

If quarterback has average throwing skills but can mentally dismantle any defense that you throw at him, and get it to the right person close to 100% of the time……..he is not a game manager. He is the GOAT, because he can do something that almost nobody else can do.

Most people want to associate game manager with a QB that doesn't have cannon for an arm, but Ab2 is right. Brady was more than a game manager and Manning was more than a game manager. Neither had rocket arms. Game Managers will take what the defense gives them. A average arm QB like Brady or Manning will manipulate the defense.

Bottom line, I just want RL to complete his passes, short and long.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

Most people want to associate game manager with a QB that doesn't have cannon for an arm, but Ab2 is right. Brady was more than a game manager and Manning was more than a game manager. Neither had rocket arms. Game Managers will take what the defense gives them. A average arm QB like Brady or Manning will manipulate the defense.

Bottom line, I just want RL to complete his passes, short and long.

Manipulating the defense is part of managing a game. They were both amazing game managers. Stop using it as an insult.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

I'm confused. You called Brady a great Game Manager. I would argue that he's about the most opposite of a Game Manager as you can get.

If not a great, maybe best game manager of all time, what is he?

What does the opposite of a game manager mean? Someone who can't manage a game?

 

[Irish#1]

Manipulating the defense is part of managing a game. They were both amazing game managers. Stop using it as an insult.

I guess we have different opinions of what a game manager is.

 

[ab2cmiller]

As Bumpdaddy mentioned, I don't think most people are defining game manager as you.

I'll go back to what I said earlier. If the QB is THE reason your team is winning football games. He is NOT a game manager.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

I still have a hard time reconciling that Eastern Illinois University has produced two NFL QBs better than anything ND has been able to muster this century. It's absolutely mind blowing.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

As Bumpdaddy mentioned, I don't think most people are defining game manager as you.

I'll go back to what I said earlier. If the QB is THE reason your team is winning football games. He is NOT a game manager.

Ok well then state your definition of what a game manager is.

Saying what it isn't, is not defining what it is.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Ok well then state your definition of what a game manager is.

Saying what it isn't, is not defining what it is.

In American football, a game manager is a quarterback who, despite pedestrian individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, also maintains low numbers of mistakes, such as interceptions and fumbles. Such a quarterback is seen as a major factor in neither his team's wins nor their losses; his performance is good enough to not negatively affect the performances of other players on his team, even if he himself does not have the skills to be considered an elite player.[1][2] Game managers often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams.

Game manager - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is what a huge majority of football fans would believe. You are welcome to correct the Wiki with your own interpretation if you like.

 

[Jimmy3Putt]

A game manager's team runs the ball 80% off the time relying on him to convert a few third downs and not turn the ball over.

Team winning with defense and ball control.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

I guess we have different opinions of what a game manager is.

Yes, most people parrot as some sort of snub on the QBs style of play. Usually he's defined by their limited physically, and ability to only do things within a system, but is never going to make a play on their own. It's a status they're relegated to based on their limitations.

What I'm saying is that every QB should strive to be a game manager. It's their job on the team. You can rank them on a spectrum from good to bad, and they'll all have ranging abilities on how they accomplish the end goal.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

This is getting strange and I've contributed to many strange threads.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

In American football, a game manager is a quarterback who, despite pedestrian individual statistics such as passing yards and touchdowns, also maintains low numbers of mistakes, such as interceptions and fumbles. Such a quarterback is seen as a major factor in neither his team's wins nor their losses; his performance is good enough to not negatively affect the performances of other players on his team, even if he himself does not have the skills to be considered an elite player.[1][2] Game managers often benefit from strong defense and rushing offense on their teams.

Game manager - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is what a huge majority of football fans would believe. You are welcome to correct the Wiki with your own interpretation if you like.

Lol you went to Wikipedia for your definition? Weak sauce, especially since most QBs would fall under this definition.

I've given my definition enough, doesn't seem to be getting through

Don't take my word for it, take ten minutes and listen to the greatest NFL coach ever talk about good and bad QB play.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Lol you went to Wikipedia for your definition? Weak sauce, especially since most QBs would fall under this definition.

I've given my definition enough, doesn't seem to be getting through

Don't take my word for it, take ten minutes and listen to the greatest NFL coach ever talk about good and bad QB play.

More power to ya. Go out and change the world buddy. Right now, you are an island of one.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

More power to ya. Go out and change the world buddy. Right now, you are an island of one.

Damn, well I guess Billy B and I will enjoy all the sandy beaches alone.

Hopefully we'll still have the internets to check in and watch games 🤞

 

[JoeyGetherall]

More power to ya. Go out and change the world buddy. Right now, you are an island of one.

Since this is college football and your might not trust the opinion of the greatest NFL coach ever, here's the opinion of the great college coach ever.

''I don't think it's fair to AJ that because I said he's a really good game manager for us that it's like that means he doesn't do anything,'' Saban said. ''He does everything. I don't think you can be a good quarterback unless you're a really good game manager. That's the ultimate compliment, to me.''

Saban: Game manager label is high praise for QB | FOX Sports

Saban: Game manager label is high praise for QB

www.foxsports.com

 

[ab2cmiller]

Since this is college football and your might not trust the opinion of the greatest NFL coach ever, here's the opinion of the great college coach ever.

''I don't think it's fair to AJ that because I said he's a really good game manager for us that it's like that means he doesn't do anything,'' Saban said. ''He does everything. I don't think you can be a good quarterback unless you're a really good game manager. That's the ultimate compliment, to me.''

Saban: Game manager label is high praise for QB | FOX Sports

Saban: Game manager label is high praise for QB

www.foxsports.com

Dude, this is not that difficult. All great quarterbacks have good "game management". That is PART of being a great quarterback. If you are a great quarterback though, you have the ability to take over a game when necessary. You heard Belichick himself, that the goal is to win. Bill said sometimes that meant putting up over 40 points. You are a "game manager" if you lack the ability to take over the game when necessary. As you said, most QB's in the NFL are probably game managers. You can likely win a lot of games in the NFL if you have a good "Game Manager" and have a good rushing game and a good defense.

Manning, Brady and Mahomes are/were not "game managers".

 

[irishff1014]

You guys are wasting your time arguing over a QB that sucks and shouldn’t be at ND in the first place.

 

[Jiggafini19Deux]

This is getting strange and I've contributed to many strange threads.

Stranger than the Glenn Earl poster you have on your ceiling?

 

[JoeyGetherall]

Dude, this is not that difficult. All great quarterbacks have good "game management". That is PART of being a great quarterback. If you are a great quarterback though, you have the ability to take over a game when necessary. You heard Belichick himself, that the goal is to win. Bill said sometimes that meant putting up over 40 points. You are a "game manager" if you lack the ability to take over the game when necessary. As you said, most QB's in the NFL are probably game managers. You can likely win a lot of games in the NFL if you have a good "Game Manager" and have a good rushing game and a good defense.

Manning, Brady and Mahomes are/were not "game managers".

Your circular arguments are hard to follow lol

You went from using wiki to define it as slight , someone who is relegated to a certain way of doing things, to now saying "All great QBs have good game management."

So great QBs have good management, but not the greatest QBs ever? Are they even better "game managers" then? If not, then what?

I'm glad those fellas Bill and Nick are starting to have a positive affect on you 😇

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Stranger than the Glenn Earl poster you have on your ceiling?

No stranger than the Chinedum Ndukwe cardboard cutout I drive around with.

 

[ThePiombino]

I think we can all agree that RL is NOT a game manager. Running backs, by definition, cannot be game managers.

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

 

[greyhammer90]

Your circular arguments are hard to follow lol

You went from using wiki to define it as slight , someone who is relegated to a certain way of doing things, to now saying "All great QBs have good game management."

So great QBs have good management, but not the greatest QBs ever? Are they even better "game managers" then? If not, then what?

I'm glad those fellas Bill and Nick are starting to have a positive affect on you 😇

This is so stupid that I have to believe that you're trolling lol.

LeBron James in his prime was a role player.

"It's true because his role was to be the best player on the planet!"

 

[JoeyGetherall]

This is so stupid that I have to believe that you're trolling lol.

LeBron James in his prime was a role player.

"It's true because his role was to be the best player on the planet!"

Lol, bored on a Wednesday. Its just nauseating when people use it as insult. They sound like they get their takes from Mina Kimes 😇