‘21 AL QB Riley Leonard (Duke Transfer - Notre Dame Verbal)

[Free Manera]

Game managers can still work places like Alabama, UGA, or OSU because their skill players are always the best players on the field. When you have dynamic athletes all over the place, you just need to get them the ball on time.

ND is never going to have Ruggs, Devonta Smith, Jerry Jeudy, and Jaylen Waddle on the field at the same time with Najee Harris in the backfield (seriously WTF).

For ND to win a title, they need their Trevor Lawrence. Clemson and ND recruiting rankings are pretty similar over the past 10 years. If you swapped their QBs with NDs, ND could have a title or two right now.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

It will be necessary to win a shootout in at least one or two of the playoff games

You seem to using game manager as a slight.

Game managers are a good thing. They limit their TOs and they get the ball into the hands of the best players. Game managers can lead offenses that score lots of points. UofM avg 35 a game last year.

We have a good defense that will keep us in games. 35 will suffice in most cases.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

Game managers can still work places like Alabama, UGA, or OSU because their skill players are always the best players on the field. When you have dynamic athletes all over the place, you just need to get them the ball on time.

ND is never going to have Ruggs, Devonta Smith, Jerry Jeudy, and Jaylen Waddle on the field at the same time with Najee Harris in the backfield (seriously WTF).

For ND to win a title, they need their Trevor Lawrence. Clemson and ND recruiting rankings are pretty similar over the past 10 years. If you swapped their QBs with NDs, ND could have a title or two right now.

Game managers work well everywhere.

Look at the most talented QB in the league. Mahomes had to be a game manager last year bc he knew he had a great defense and the offense wasnt as explosive in years past. Same guy, same talent and athletic ability but was smart enough , and or well coached enough to know how to play with the team around him. Their results in achieving their end goal were the same as years prior.

 

[Free Manera]

Game managers work well everywhere.

Look at the most talented QB in the league. Mahomes had to be a game manager last year bc he knew he had a great defense and the offense wasnt as explosive in years past. Same guy, same talent and athletic ability but was smart enough , and or well coached enough to know how to play with the team around him. Their results in achieving their end goal were the same as years prior.

If we're calling Mahomes a game manager I think we are using the term differently lol.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

If we're calling Mahomes a game manager I think we are using the term differently lol.

Lol , yes I think so. Having a game manager at QB is a good thing , not a bad thing. A QB can very talented and a game manager at the same time. Mahomes is that example. And QB can also be very talented but a bad game manager , see eg Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson types.

 

[CANONIZEFATHERSORIN]

Game manager is 2 TD .6 INT 190 yards passing per game. Think how good we would be with that

 

[GATTACA!]

Lol , yes I think so. Having a game manager at QB is a good thing , not a bad thing. A QB can very talented and a game manager at the same time. Mahomes is that example. And QB can also be very talented but a bad game manager , see eg Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson types.

You might be the only person on the planet that would consider Mahomes a game manager.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

You might be the only person on the planet that would consider Mahomes a game manager.

Ok, then give us your definition of a game manager if I'm wrong.

 

[NumbersGuy0520]

I would argue we’ve been trying to “game manage” for the past 5-10+ years to limited success. (Here I take the phrase “game manager” to typically mean a QB whose primary role is to be conservative, play safe, manage risks, and only take the shot when it’s there)

Our offenses have been predicated on supporting the run, a strong TE game, and the occasional mid-long range shot (though most of our passes are usually short-mid range). This has been our identity for a while - in the Kelly years it led to wins against the teams we should dominate and embarrassment against good opponents who could take a strong lead on us.

Without some studs at WR, this cannot be our approach if we want to with a national championship, which will require 4 wins in the playoffs where teams will inevitably take leads on us. We need a DUDE at QB who is willing to take over the game himself (I believe this is the opposite of a game manager).

 

[JoeyGetherall]

I would argue we’ve been trying to “game manage” for the past 5-10+ years to limited success. (Here I take the phrase “game manager” to typically mean a QB whose primary role is to be conservative, play safe, manage risks, and only take the shot when it’s there)

Our offenses have been predicated on supporting the run, a strong TE game, and the occasional mid-long range shot (though most of our passes are usually short-mid range). This has been our identity for a while - in the Kelly years it led to wins against the teams we should dominate and embarrassment against good opponents who could take a strong lead on us.

Without some studs at WR, this cannot be our approach if we want to with a national championship, which will require 4 wins in the playoffs where teams will inevitably take leads on us. We need a DUDE at QB who is willing to take over the game himself (I believe this is the opposite of a game manager).

Game manager should be a good thing, not a bad thing. The best QB's manage the offense in a way that wins them the game, which usually means getting the ball to the best players and limiting TOs. Bad QBs make terrible decisions and turn the ball over. Arm talent and running ability vary but that doesn't change your ability to manage a game. It's up to the coaches to game plan something to their teams strength that the QB can execute and puts players in position to win.

I'd argue our offenses since BK have retreated to the run game when things get tough because that's our true strength. Instead of leaning on this full tilt we want to pretend to portray a spread balanced attack , when in reality we rarely if ever have the combo of QB and WR talent that defenses truly fear.

Running teams can score points too, UofM avg 35 a game last year. The key is to not get down by 21 in the first place, which I have confidence our recent defenses can do.

 

[Free Manera]

I think of a game manager as someone that makes the right decisions most of the time, and makes the easy to moderate plays at an extraordinarily high clip. However, he is inherently physically limited, so he cannot take a game over, make jawdropping throws, or gain 12 yards on the ground every time you need 11.

Brian Kelly at ND was the equivalent of a game manager. He almost always won when he should have. But when the opponent was equally or more talented, he was not equipped to overcome it.

 

[GrangerIrish24]

I think of a game manager as someone that makes the right decisions most of the time, and makes the easy to moderate plays at an extraordinarily high clip. However, he is inherently physically limited, so he cannot take a game over, make jawdropping throws, or gain 12 yards on the ground every time you need 11.

I still cant not see Free Marinara at first glance. Carry on.

 

[Free Manera]

I still cant not see Free Marinara at first glance. Carry on.

Is it the fact that I made marinara sauce my pic?

 

[GrangerIrish24]

Is it the fact that I made marinara sauce my pic?

Honestly didn't even notice that at first. I'm kind of an idiot.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

I think of a game manager as someone that makes the right decisions most of the time, and makes the easy to moderate plays at an extraordinarily high clip. However, he is inherently physically limited, so he cannot take a game over, make jawdropping throws, or gain 12 yards on the ground every time you need 11.

Brian Kelly at ND was the equivalent of a game manager. He almost always won when he should have. But when the opponent was equally or more talented, he was not equipped to overcome it.

Lol, you've just described 90% of QBs. Most can't take over a game, make jaw dropping throws or gain ten yards every run. That's a very limited few. If you want to limit the success of your program on landing that guy, then we'll keep waiting another 35 years.

Again, the best QBs get the ball into the hands of the best players and limit turnovers. How they accomplish that varies based on their own abilities, teammates and coaches. It's a huge plus if they call their own number when needed by being able to avoid a rush or convert short yardage.

BK was a coach not a QB , so I'm not going to dive into a coach who is a game manager

 

[dublinirish]

lol i always felt the tag "game manager" was for white QB's and then "point guard of the offense" was for black ones

 

[Free Manera]

lol i always felt the tag "game manager" was for white QB's and then "point guard of the offense" was for black ones

Gym rat, coach's son, hustle player!

 

[Free Manera]

Lol, you've just described 90% of QBs. Most can't take over a game, make jaw dropping throws or gain ten yards every run. That's a very limited few. If you want to limit the success of your program on landing that guy, then we'll keep waiting another 35 years.

Again, the best QBs get the ball into the hands of the best players and limit turnovers. How they accomplish that varies based on their own abilities, teammates and coaches. It's a huge plus if they call their own number when needed by being able to avoid a rush or convert short yardage.

BK was a coach not a QB , so I'm not going to dive into a coach who is a game manager

For sure, I agree with all of that. My point is just that ND won't win a championship with that guy. ND needs a guy from that other 10% if they want to win a title.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

lol i always felt the tag "game manager" was for white QB's and then "point guard of the offense" was for black ones

Lol, sort of feels that way. I don't know when the term game manager became such a slight, but it gets parroted a lot these days.
Ask any coach and they will tell you they'll take B+ athlete that can "manage" their offense over an , A+ athlete who constantly turns it over. You only play the A+ guy in that situation if the rest of the team is garbage and he's all you got.

 

[NDFAN2008]

As much as our offense looked like crap at times last year we still put up over 40 in most games I’d take that right now

 

[mrmcgrail]

Sam Hartman is a much better quarterback then Leonard is. He knew where to go with the ball most of the time and even though we didn't have the best skill positions they were obviously still better than those schools we whipped. Leonard misses so many reads it's wild there are open receivers he just rarely finds them or throws a bad ball. He has happy feet and constantly drifts to his right which cuts the field in half

 

[SDIrishFan]

I think what were all trying to say is ND needs a "difference maker" at QB, not a "game manager" (which I completely agree with). I.e. they need a Trevor Lawrence or Caleb Williams in addition to a stellar defense.

B/c we don't get the elite playmakers on offense, we can't have a QB who just gets it in their hands and moves out of the way. And having a good run game is too easy to take away when we line up Ian Book or Sam Hartman.

Michigan is the only close exception I've seen to this rule of late, and we all know what their advantage was.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

For sure, I agree with all of that. My point is just that ND won't win a championship with that guy. ND needs a guy from that other 10% if they want to win a title.

Well, that's a disheartening take because those guys don't come to ND developed that way, and we don't develop them. Mahomes and Josh Allen were 3 star high school recruits before they became the best QBs in the NFL.

What we do get on campus and develop well are OLs, TEs and RBs. We should lean on them and pair that strength with competent QBs that have command of the offense, the ability to get our play makers the ball, and limit TOs.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

Sam Hartman is a much better quarterback then Leonard is. He knew where to go with the ball most of the time and even though we didn't have the best skill positions they were obviously still better than those schools we whipped. Leonard misses so many reads it's wild there are open receivers he just rarely finds them or throws a bad ball. He has happy feet and constantly drifts to his right which cuts the field in half

Agreed. I was not a Parker fan, and one of the reasons is I don't understand why he didn't try to incorporate some of the RPO stuff Sam did at Vandy.

 

[dublinirish]

Agreed. I was not a Parker fan, and one of the reasons is I don't understand why he didn't try to incorporate some of the RPO stuff Sam did at Vandy.

The Slow Mesh stuff is considered gimmicky, i dont think many OC's think highly of it. And ever since Wakey Leaks scandal Wake has been very secretive about their stuff, they've never done clinics explaining it other coaches

 

[JoeyGetherall]

I think what were all trying to say is ND needs a "difference maker" at QB, not a "game manager" (which I completely agree with). I.e. they need a Trevor Lawrence or Caleb Williams in addition to a stellar defense.

B/c we don't get the elite playmakers on offense, we can't have a QB who just gets it in their hands and moves out of the way. And having a good run game is too easy to take away when we line up Ian Book or Sam Hartman.

Michigan is the only close exception I've seen to this rule of late, and we all know what their advantage was.

We don't get elite play makers at WR and QB. We do get elite players and develop them at the OL, RB and TE positions. We should lean on this strength.

A run game can set up the pass, we used to call it play action . I'm not suggesting you run triple option, but if you get 70 offensive plays, a good mix for this year's team would be 45 runs and 25 passes. You can mix the up run calls, it doesn't have to be zone every play. And for a QB like Leonard you want his throw to mostly consist of play action, quick hitters (slants), swing / screen game and take your shots accordingly.

A good run game is hard to stop. Teams can play well in the first half but unless your defense is very deep, they're gonna be tired late 3rd & 4th. At that time hopefully you're still in it and you then start to impose your will.

 

[JoeyGetherall]

The Slow Mesh stuff is considered gimmicky, i dont think many OC's think highly of it. And ever since Wakey Leaks scandal Wake has been very secretive about their stuff, they've never done clinics explaining it other coaches

One man's "slow mesh" is another man's RPO. OCs are running RPO plays all over the county at every level. That's a lazy excuse for a coach getting paid millions.

 

[INLaw]

Lol, sort of feels that way. I don't know when the term game manager became such a slight, but it gets parroted a lot these days.
Ask any coach and they will tell you they'll take B+ athlete that can "manage" their offense over an , A+ athlete who constantly turns it over. You only play the A+ guy in that situation if the rest of the team is garbage and he's all you got.

Is this the coach prime thread

 

[bumpdaddy]

I just want to point out that all 4 guys on yesterday's II podcast believe Riley will start but Angeli will likely play some tomorrow but they gave slightly different reasons. Both Brice and Sampson believe RL will start and both think his injury is likely going to affect him after getting hit a few times and he'll likely have to be pulled at some point. O'Malley and Prister think there will be more to it than just RL's injury. O'Malley believes RL will start but then said, "Angeli will be the QB of record at the end of the day," meaning he believes Angeli will get more playing time regardless of RL's injury. Prister seconded O'Malley's comment because what he's hearing behind the scenes appears to be different from what Brice is hearing.

The point of contention appears to be that both Brice and Prister heard that Angeli took more snaps with the 1's at Wed's practice but Brice was told there wasn't much more to it than a combination of making sure Angeli gets reps and giving RL a little more time to recover from his injury. Prister seemed to indicate he was told something different and he thinks the reason they gave Angeli more reps is they expect him to play and he'll likely get more playing time than RL.

We'll see how it all plays out.

 

[IrishLax]

This is just brutal. Some of the worst QB play we’ve seen at ND sans Drew Pyne.