Independence

[DillonHall]

Refs and Andy Ludwig the reason for joining a conference.

Maybe we should build an Andy Ludwig statue outside the stadium

Obviously the Ludwig part was said in jest. But the financial impact is real. It's a huge difference EVERY year. That adds up big time

 

[thekid33]

I really don't like the attitude of "we're special" and "we don't need a conference."

That's the smugness that other people love to hate on us for.

Yes, we are special. But, in 2023, I don't think being independent is needed for ND to be special.

ND became special by being an independent and being able to build a national brand by playing a national schedule and having their own TV deal

You can now play a national schedule by being in the Big 10 (or ACC).

You can now make more money from TV by being in a conference. And, trust me every game would still be on national TV. Plus, the product might not be total ass, which is what NBC has become.

I think the conference title game argument matters less with the playoff expanding. But, it's still something to consider.

Everyone also seems to forget about the other sports - ND needs a highly competitive conference for them.

It's not today. But, at some point I think it's going to need to happen. And, honestly, I'd be fine if it was today.

And when it does happen, ND will be as special as ever.

 

[Giddyup]

Rutgers gets no free national advertising, never mind their school name on the national stage every other Saturday

 

[DillonHall]

Why are we comparing Notre Dame to Rutgers regarding brand, exposure, etc? We should be comparing ND another blue blood like Ohio State who is in a conference. Joining a conference won't have much of an impact (in this regard) on ND, good or bad

If anything, the fact that a crappy program like Rutgers gets so much more money than ND should be eye-opening

Why not be like Ohio State who gets great exposure (due to their historical and current success) and makes that kind of money? It's not one or the other

 

[Lberry]

Rutgers gets no free national advertising, never mind their school name on the national stage every other Saturday

We are not Rutgers, coverage wise. Rutgers was an example saying everyone in the Big 10 is getting the ~$80-100M.

Michigan, OSU, Texas, Bama, Georgia are on national tv every freaking game.

 

[Giddyup]

Because Rutgers was used to say all teams get 60 mil

 

[Giddyup]

We are not Rutgers, coverage wise. Rutgers was an example saying everyone in the Big 10 is getting the ~$80-100M.

Michigan, OSU, Texas, Bama, Georgia are on national tv every freaking game.

Negative

 

[Lberry]

Why are we comparing Notre Dame to Rutgers? We should be comparing ND another blue blood like Ohio State who is in a conference

Its a revenue point. Doesn't matter which Big 10 team you use, but even Freaking Rutgers is doubling us up in revenue and no one even knows they play football anymore.

I bet all the other ADs laugh at us behind the scenes.

 

[thekid33]

If you join the Big 10, you can have the USC game in conference.

Let's say they go to 9 conference games.

That still gives you Navy.

Stanford, if you want it. I could take or leave it.

Plus one more game.

 

[DillonHall]

Its a revenue point. Doesn't matter which Big 10 team you use, but even Freaking Rutgers is doubling us up in revenue and no one even knows they play football anymore.

I bet all the other ADs laugh at us behind the scenes.

Yeah I know what you're saying- I may have edited my post. Why are we pretending like $20+ million per year is nothing?

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Notre Dame is the 5th most profitable football program at 54 million. Seems they’re doing ok as is.

 

[thekid33]

Notre Dame is the 5th most profitable football program at 54 million. Seems they’re doing ok as is.

 

[NumbersGuy0520]

But even if losing doesn’t knock you out you’re playing the extra playoff game anyways so you’ve gained nothing and just had an extra hard game.

Maybe I’m just the one confused. So clearly in this part of the discussion we’re (for the moment) considering the situation where a loss in a conference championship doesn’t eliminate ND from the playoffs. And it seems we’ve found common ground that with conference schedules being easier, the situation ND would find themselves in, often enough, would be a shot at a conference championship where a loss wouldn’t necessarily wipe them from playoffs.

Scenario A: ND wins the conference championship. Maybe gets the bye, maybe doesn’t
Scenario B: ND doesn’t win the conference championship -> now ND has to go 3-0 in the playoffs.
Scenario C: ND remained independent -> no conference championship, ND has to go 3-0 in the playoffs.

You’d rather just sign up for scenario C, than try for Scenario A and, at worst again, end up in Scenario B (which is the same as Scenario C)

 

[DillonHall]

I think the Playoff structure will continue to change as conferences do. In hindsight, they probably should've made it simpler and gone to an 8-team Playoff

 

[Lberry]

Notre Dame is the 5th most profitable football program at 54 million. Seems they’re doing ok as is.

Lol, per what? This isn't true.

 

[DillonHall]

Notre Dame is the 5th most profitable football program at 54 million. Seems they’re doing ok as is.

And yet we can't afford to renovate the Gug, which Freeman has openly described as being inadequate. It'd also be nice if ND could decrease ticket prices to make them more affordable to the average person. They could get more revenue from broadcasting rights instead of preying on their own fans

 

[Lberry]

Maybe I’m just the one confused. So clearly in this part of the discussion we’re (for the moment) considering the situation where a loss in a conference championship doesn’t eliminate ND from the playoffs. And it seems we’ve found common ground that with conference schedules being easier, the situation ND would find themselves in, often enough, would be a shot at a conference championship where a loss wouldn’t necessarily wipe them from playoffs.

Scenario A: ND wins the conference championship. Maybe gets the bye, maybe doesn’t
Scenario B: ND doesn’t win the conference championship -> now ND has to go 3-0 in the playoffs.
Scenario C: ND remained independent -> no conference championship, ND has to go 3-0 in the playoffs.

You’d rather just sign up for scenario C, than try for Scenario A and, at worst again, end up in Scenario B (which is the same as Scenario C)

Numbers guy 👆

 

[FDNYIrish1]

And yet we can't afford to renovate the Gug, which Freeman has openly described as being inadequate. It'd also be nice if ND could decrease ticket prices to make them more affordable to the average person. They could get more revenue from broadcasting rights instead of preying on their own fans

Did they actually say they can’t afford it? Or just aren’t willing to pay for it. The football team turning profit and where the university spends that money aren’t the same.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Not sure u know the history with Navy

most ND fans on message boards know the history. Whether they join a conference or not, ND has earned the right to make a stipulation that the game be the season opener every season. I’d be ok with that. The game is a burden to ND’s coaching staff & student-athletes. A win is always expected b/c no one respects Navy as a football power. Even a close win can have negative consequences. If the only upside of playing them is “ND owes Navy” then just stroke them a check to go away. It’s always my least favorite game of the year & I suspect I’m not the only fan w/ that opinion.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Lol, per what? This isn't true.

Lol a simple search. Find it yourself.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

View attachment 3054667

I’m not saying they can’t do better, but the football program is definitely pretty damn profitable

 

[FDNYIrish1]

https://footballscoop.com/news/the-mega-millions-in-college-football#:~:text=Notre%20Dame%2C%20the%20lone%20independent,shown%20to%20be%20%2459.4m.

Here’s one Ding.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

I think the Playoff structure will continue to change as conferences do. In hindsight, they probably should've made it simpler and gone to an 8-team Playoff

They’ll never do that b/c more games = more revenue. That goes for every college & professional sport that is televised.

 

[DillonHall]

Did they actually say they can’t afford it? Or just aren’t willing to pay for it. The football team turning profit and where the university spends that money aren’t the same.

That’s a good question. I don’t know, though I think Swarbrick had mentioned they were trying to raise funds for it

But I want to believe we just can’t afford it. Because if we have the money but just don’t want to do it, that means we’re not serious about contending for national championships

 

[Lberry]

Lol a simple search. Find it yourself.

Thats 2021. We're not top 10 and won't be anytime soon without change.

https://www.si.com/fannation/college/cfb-hq/ncaa-football-rankings/college-football-sports-rankings-by-revenue-2022-ohio-state-texas

College athletics' 25 powerhouses who produced the most revenue for 2022

Two of the nation's top football programs are notable revenue-producers.

247sports.com

Even using the revenue in your link we'd be ~$40 million behind the 10th most revenue generating program last year. We're getting dusted, relative to the top programs.

 

[FDNYIrish1]

That’s a good question. I don’t know, though I think Swarbrick had mentioned they were trying to raise funds for it

But I want to believe we just can’t afford it. Because if we have the money but just don’t want to do it, that means we’re not serious about contending for national championships

Don’t forget football and basketball cover the other sports as well, which operate at a deficit. I assume that brings the athletic department closer to breaking even, hence the need to raise funds.

 

[DillonHall]

Gug Renovation a Priority? Yes. Roadblock to a National Title? No

Sounds like we don’t have the funds yet

 

[FDNYIrish1]

Thats 2021. We're not top 10 and won't be anytime soon without change.

https://www.si.com/fannation/college/cfb-hq/ncaa-football-rankings/college-football-sports-rankings-by-revenue-2022-ohio-state-texas

College athletics' 25 powerhouses who produced the most revenue for 2022

Two of the nation's top football programs are notable revenue-producers.

247sports.com

Even using the revenue in your outdated info, we'd be ~$40 million behind the 10th most revenue generating program last year. We're getting dusted, relative to the top programs.

That’s athletic department revenue. I’m going to edit. Let’s not forget ND is up for 60-75 million more per year with the new tv contract upcoming.

 

[DillonHall]

Isn’t the bottom line (ie the total profit/loss for the entire athletic department) the most important number?

 

[TorontoGold]

And yet we can't afford to renovate the Gug, which Freeman has openly described as being inadequate. It'd also be nice if ND could decrease ticket prices to make them more affordable to the average person. They could get more revenue from broadcasting rights instead of preying on their own fans

Tickets on the resale market for non-premier games are like ~$60-80 for an event that happens 6 times a year is pretty good, especially for a product that's been 6th in overall wins the past 10 years (2013-2022).

Not many premier sporting events you can go to for that price. Unless you're advocating for ND to restrict the resale market, reducing the ticket price just transfers the profit to resalers rather than to the university. I'd rather ND get the money than Joe TicketGuy.