COVID-19

[PerthDomer]

Great question, and a legitimate one. First, the suggestion is not that Ivermectin alone is the answer. What the studies I have been pointing to is that Ivermectin is A answer as part of a multi-drug early treatment protocol. Concerning its benefits, I would point to the protocols used in the previous, now voluminous, studies I cited early in this thread.

There is now scientific reasoning to support using the above 3 in tandem and not using only Azithromycin and Zinc alone. In short, among other things, Ivermectin acts as ionophore for Zinc, to "open the door" and allow Zinc into cells to fight the virus.

To help lessen the "Ivermectin and COVID" tension, below is a publication from 2018 in the American Journal of Cancer Research showing both the safety of Ivermectin in human use, as well as its ability to act as an ionophore. A quote:

"In humans, its use has improved the nutrition, general health and well-being of billions of people worldwide since it was first used to treat onchocerciasis."

The point here in this linked study is not to show how Ivermectin helps in eradicating the COVID virus (which IS shown in numerous studies I've cited previously in this thread) but to show how Ivermectin is a reasonably safe drug for humans to take when prescribed by a physician, and how it acts as an ionophore (which again opens the door to let Zinc in to fight the virus).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5835698/

P.S. Due to the obviously biased nature of search results of Google when used as a search engine, I would recommend at least trying a search of the same search terms in "Duck Duck Go" and compare what search results you get. Not suggesting Duck Duck Go is superior in quality, it is not. But I would suggest it is more fair in results of a search it presents to you.

I'd leave medicine to people with the requisite training. I also wouldn't use a web search engine to look for articles (we generally use pubmed) and maybe ask experts in the field why zinc, HCQ, ivermectin haven't panned out. Additionally there are several drugs that have low side effect profiles in healthy people but can be devastating in critical illness. Advil for instance can kill septic people. High dose vitamin C can precipitate cardiac arrest in patients who are already acidemic. Ivermectin taken in animal formations can and has caused liver failure. Ivermectin in general can cause diarrhea and if you tack that onto a severe case of COVID can lead to you being severely dehydrated when you get to the hospital.

 

[bobbyok1]

I'd leave medicine to people with the requisite training. I also wouldn't use a web search engine to look for articles (we generally use pubmed) and maybe ask experts in the field why zinc, HCQ, ivermectin haven't panned out. Additionally there are several drugs that have low side effect profiles in healthy people but can be devastating in critical illness. Advil for instance can kill septic people. High dose vitamin C can precipitate cardiac arrest in patients who are already academic. Ivermectin taken in animal formations can and has caused liver failure. Ivermectin in general can cause diarrhea and if you tack that onto a severe case of COVID can lead to you being severely dehydrated when you get to the hospital.

I appreciate your perspectives here. And yes, while PubMed is helpful (many of the links I've posted previously were tied to PubMed) I personally wouldn't limit ones searches to such. Perspectives outside of the field of medicine can be helpful as well on other matters which should not influence medical decisions but sometimes do.

Your perspective on Ivermectin being potentially dangerous in the critically ill, because other drugs with low side effects in healthy people can be devastating in the critically ill, seems to be more of a hypothetical you're suggesting. While I appreciate the generalized caution, I've seen no solid evidence of such in the Ivermectin studies I've read. So, I think that is a bit of a moot point, though a thoughtful recommendation.

I am not suggesting that I am trained in medicine, obviously I am not, and any suggestion would be laughable. But I also am not satisfied in the least with the way the medical community (as a whole, not placing any personal blame on you or any other individuals) has handled COVID treatment of diagnosed cases. "Go home, quarantine, stay hydrated and get rest, if you have trouble breathing come back in."

Therefore, despite any imperfections in my approach to advocating for a better early treatment protocol, I will continue to do so. Hopefully, an effective standardized early treatment protocol of COVID-19 becomes the norm. And when that day comes, I'll happily leave medicine to people with the requisite training, content to be one of millions of voices who advocated for the field of medicine to get back to medicine and not whatever else is jacking it around these days.

 

[phork]

Isn't Zpacks generally used for bacterial infections? Also all those studies promoting ivermectin were in labs and not on human subjects. Essentially in a test tube its great, but the dosage needed for humans is actually too great.

We have beaten the ivermectin horse to death, no puns intended. Move on.

PS Joe Rogan didn't have COVID. You don't test positive and 3 days later negative, thats not how any of this works. Also I thought he was young and healthy enough to beat it on his own, why go full steroid, antibodies, ivermectin and vitamin drips. Lol.

 

[Trait Expectations]

I appreciate your perspectives here. And yes, while PubMed is helpful (many of the links I've posted previously were tied to PubMed) I personally wouldn't limit ones searches to such. Perspectives outside of the field of medicine can be helpful as well on other matters which should not influence medical decisions but sometimes do.

Your perspective on Ivermectin being potentially dangerous in the critically ill, because other drugs with low side effects in healthy people can be devastating in the critically ill, seems to be more of a hypothetical you're suggesting. While I appreciate the generalized caution, I've seen no solid evidence of such in the Ivermectin studies I've read. So, I think that is a bit of a moot point, though a thoughtful recommendation.

I am not suggesting that I am trained in medicine, obviously I am not, and any suggestion would be laughable. But I also am not satisfied in the least with the way the medical community (as a whole, not placing any personal blame on you or any other individuals) has handled COVID treatment of diagnosed cases. "Go home, quarantine, stay hydrated and get rest, if you have trouble breathing come back in."

Therefore, despite any imperfections in my approach to advocating for a better early treatment protocol, I will continue to do so. Hopefully, an effective standardized early treatment protocol of COVID-19 becomes the norm. And when that day comes, I'll happily leave medicine to people with the requisite training, content to be one of millions of voices who advocated for the field of medicine to get back to medicine and not whatever else is jacking it around these days.

What do you think is "jacking around" medicine these days? It seems you know a little more than the rest of us here so continue on with your well-researched plan of action.

Just so I can complete the Venn diagram in my head of various populations, how old do you believe the earth to be?

 

[Black Irish]

A woman I know recently tested positive. She's fit & healthy, late 30s. I asked her what treatment advice she was given when she got her positive results. It was "rest and stay hydrated and see a doctor if you're symptoms get worse." She rode it out and it didn't hit her hard. I've talked to other people who have tested positive and gotten similar stories. I find it hard to square the national freak out we are having over Covid versus instances like this where someone tests positive and if they aren't having severe breathing problems or running a high temp, the advice is to rest and drink water? I get Covid hits others hard and people have gotten severely ill and died. That's tragic. But we have to acknowledge that for the overwhelming majority of the population, getting Covid isn't a death sentence. Hell, it won't even require hospitalization in most cases. We've got to get off these one-size-fits-all mandates and move to a more nuanced, case-by-case strategy to protect the small percentage of the population that will likely get seriously ill from Covid. Those who are at risk need to take steps to protect themselves; wear a N95 mask, avoid crowds, whatever you need to do. But we all can't keep living at Def-Con 4 over a virus that doesn't pose a serious threat to most people. Get the vax, be healthy, and go on with your life. If you have immune issues, take steps to protect yourself. We can't live in crisis mode forever.

 

[PerthDomer]

A woman I know recently tested positive. She's fit & healthy, late 30s. I asked her what treatment advice she was given when she got her positive results. It was "rest and stay hydrated and see a doctor if you're symptoms get worse." She rode it out and it didn't hit her hard. I've talked to other people who have tested positive and gotten similar stories. I find it hard to square the national freak out we are having over Covid versus instances like this where someone tests positive and if they aren't having severe breathing problems or running a high temp, the advice is to rest and drink water? I get Covid hits others hard and people have gotten severely ill and died. That's tragic. But we have to acknowledge that for the overwhelming majority of the population, getting Covid isn't a death sentence. Hell, it won't even require hospitalization in most cases. We've got to get off these one-size-fits-all mandates and move to a more nuanced, case-by-case strategy to protect the small percentage of the population that will likely get seriously ill from Covid. Those who are at risk need to take steps to protect themselves; wear a N95 mask, avoid crowds, whatever you need to do. But we all can't keep living at Def-Con 4 over a virus that doesn't pose a serious threat to most people. Get the vax, be healthy, and go on with your life. If you have immune issues, take steps to protect yourself. We can't live in crisis mode forever.

This is the definition of a dangerous virus. In most cases you'll be fine, but for some you get severely ill. Due to space/resource limitations not everyone can get MABs and there aren't any other early therapies that you can give a non inpatient. The ICU's are mostly full of 30 to 60 somethings. Quite a few of them are totally healthy.

 

[PerthDomer]

I appreciate your perspectives here. And yes, while PubMed is helpful (many of the links I've posted previously were tied to PubMed) I personally wouldn't limit ones searches to such. Perspectives outside of the field of medicine can be helpful as well on other matters which should not influence medical decisions but sometimes do.

Your perspective on Ivermectin being potentially dangerous in the critically ill, because other drugs with low side effects in healthy people can be devastating in the critically ill, seems to be more of a hypothetical you're suggesting. While I appreciate the generalized caution, I've seen no solid evidence of such in the Ivermectin studies I've read. So, I think that is a bit of a moot point, though a thoughtful recommendation.

I am not suggesting that I am trained in medicine, obviously I am not, and any suggestion would be laughable. But I also am not satisfied in the least with the way the medical community (as a whole, not placing any personal blame on you or any other individuals) has handled COVID treatment of diagnosed cases. "Go home, quarantine, stay hydrated and get rest, if you have trouble breathing come back in."

Therefore, despite any imperfections in my approach to advocating for a better early treatment protocol, I will continue to do so. Hopefully, an effective standardized early treatment protocol of COVID-19 becomes the norm. And when that day comes, I'll happily leave medicine to people with the requisite training, content to be one of millions of voices who advocated for the field of medicine to get back to medicine and not whatever else is jacking it around these days.

We're doing medicine. Throwing quack home remedies at people that haven't been validated is the definition of homeopathy.

 

[PerthDomer]

‘Their Crisis’ Is ‘Our Problem’: Washington Grapples With Idaho Covid Cases https://nyti.ms/3huqica

Unvaccinated bastions are flooding vaccinated areas with patients. This is why mandates are being thrown down.

 

[NDPhilly]

‘Their Crisis’ Is ‘Our Problem’: Washington Grapples With Idaho Covid Cases https://nyti.ms/3huqica

Unvaccinated bastions are flooding vaccinated areas with patients. This is why mandates are being thrown down.

Case and death curves in Washington and Idaho are nearly identical for the most recent surge

 

[PerthDomer]

Case and death curves in Washington and Idaho are nearly identical for the most recent surge

Idaho has 25% more hospitalized on a population level. Washington state is also seeing most of its patients coming from rural unvaccinated areas flooding the urban hospitals. Test positivity in Idaho is 40% and washington is 14%. Washington also has a more robust hospital system. So worse in Idaho with less resources to care for patients.

This is generally true for most of the mountain west/plain states (hospital capacity is in cities/bordering more urban states. We saw it last year when Dakotans flooded Minnesota and Colorado hospitals.

 

[RDU Irish]

What has been done over the last 18 months to increase the capacity of the health care system to manage spikes in cases? Seems they have reduced capacity more than anything by driving out workers who refuse the vaccine.

Still very little discussion of early treatment protocols beyond - get rest, hydrate and come back when we can shove you in a hospital.

 

[PerthDomer]

What has been done over the last 18 months to increase the capacity of the health care system to manage spikes in cases? Seems they have reduced capacity more than anything by driving out workers who refuse the vaccine.

Still very little discussion of early treatment protocols beyond - get rest, hydrate and come back when we can shove you in a hospital.

In the short term there's not a ton you can do. The hospital business model is based on running as close to 100% capacity as much as possible. COVID is awful for business because when mitigation goes really well you have below average numbers (other viruses gone) and subpar revenue. When covid is exploding you have the inability to do procedures (loss of revenue) and burnout. We also have more people vulnerable to the viruses the lockdowns squelched, so normal viral season will be worse.

We need reform of our fee for service system in the long run so that elective surgeries don't drive hospital revenue and that hospitals can get funding to keep enough staff for rainy days.

 

[RDU Irish]

In the short term there's not a ton you can do. The hospital business model is based on running as close to 100% capacity as much as possible. COVID is awful for business because when mitigation goes really well you have below average numbers (other viruses gone) and subpar revenue. When covid is exploding you have the inability to do procedures (loss of revenue) and burnout. We also have more people vulnerable to the viruses the lockdowns squelched, so normal viral season will be worse.

We need reform of our fee for service system in the long run so that elective surgeries don't drive hospital revenue and that hospitals can get funding to keep enough staff for rainy days.

I see a lot of near retirement and second income folks pulling the plug and staying home. If you don't HAVE to work, why put up with the increased demands of PPE and mandates from above. That includes vaccinated folks who find the demands insulting and have never seen a fully staffed unit in their career. Step away now before it becomes a real fiasco. Not to mention demands at home with kids home schooling or trying to keep parents out of a care facility.

Also why I am adamantly against shutting down any sector of the economy - surgery shut down last year and never recovered to pre-shutdown capacity. That bleeds through the entire healthcare system b/c surgery pays the bills. You can't just flip a switch to turn this stuff off and on.

A lot of self fulfilling prophesy going on in health care admin, IMO. Rather than expand capacity, lets work to reduce it to save money. I have always thought hospitals should have more extensive supplemental staff - why not have more part time workers so you can dial up or down more easily. My wife had to start full time and took years to migrate to a part time and then supplemental position. Now she is pretty much full time due to staffing shortages and her inability to say "no".

 

[PerthDomer]

I see a lot of near retirement and second income folks pulling the plug and staying home. If you don't HAVE to work, why put up with the increased demands of PPE and mandates from above. That includes vaccinated folks who find the demands insulting and have never seen a fully staffed unit in their career. Step away now before it becomes a real fiasco. Not to mention demands at home with kids home schooling or trying to keep parents out of a care facility.

Also why I am adamantly against shutting down any sector of the economy - surgery shut down last year and never recovered to pre-shutdown capacity. That bleeds through the entire healthcare system b/c surgery pays the bills. You can't just flip a switch to turn this stuff off and on.

A lot of self fulfilling prophesy going on in health care admin, IMO. Rather than expand capacity, lets work to reduce it to save money. I have always thought hospitals should have more extensive supplemental staff - why not have more part time workers so you can dial up or down more easily. My wife had to start full time and took years to migrate to a part time and then supplemental position. Now she is pretty much full time due to staffing shortages and her inability to say "no".

Hospitals mandate flu shots yearly. The people I know who are quitting or getting out of the ICU are burned out by the last 18 months and especially our current entirely preventable wave of the pandemic. In terms of elective shutdowns, outside of the fog of the 1st wave they've been driven by capacity constraints. You can't do a bunch of procedures requiring post procedure hospital stays if there are no beds.

Honestly as an ICU doc I know 0 nurses or doctors who aren't pro mandate. The anti mandate people tend to be less educated members of the hospital staff or nurses who don't care for covid patients. F antivaxxers is a pretty frequent thing you hear in the break rooms or on the floor.

 

[bobbyok1]

We're doing medicine. Throwing quack home remedies at people that haven't been validated is the definition of homeopathy.

I am not suggesting doctors and nurses are not "doing medicine." What I am suggesting is that the higher ups in medicine/pharma seem to have an aversion to a clear early treatment protocol for treating COVID-19. My issue is not with the vast majority of boots on ground in the medical field. But those who are giving them their directives. After 18 months why is it that we cannot say with any clarity "if a person get's COVID here is our early treatment protocol"?

Doctor prescribed early treatment protocols are not "quack home remedies." And there are doctors treating people with consistent and effective early treatment protocols, but they seem to have to "buck the system" of group think (which clearly is not working) in order to practice medicine in a way that is effective.

Once again, what was the common early treatment protocol for diagnosed COVID patients in you practice/system? Not once a patient is in trouble and has to come into the hospital for care. But once they are diagnosed. "Doctor, I've have been diagnosed with a positive case of COVID-19." And the doctors says okay sir, madam here is what we are going to do to treat you "________________."

Unless I am mistaken, the last time I asked this question it seemed as though all you were sharing were a couple of steps that were taken when people are in trouble, and the rest was insider privileged info. If my suggestions of solid early treatment protocol options from medical professionals are "quack home remedies", then what would you or your hospital system tell a person who just contracted COVID?

 

[PerthDomer]

I am not suggesting doctors and nurses are not "doing medicine." What I am suggesting is that the higher ups in medicine/pharma seem to have an aversion to a clear early treatment protocol for treating COVID-19. My issue is not with the vast majority of boots on ground in the medical field. But those who are giving them their directives. After 18 months why is it that we cannot say with any clarity "if a person get's COVID here is our early treatment protocol"?

Doctor prescribed early treatment protocols are not "quack home remedies." And there are doctors treating people with consistent and effective early treatment protocols, but they seem to have to "buck the system" of group think (which clearly is not working) in order to practice medicine in a way that is effective.

Once again, what was the common early treatment protocol for diagnosed COVID patients in you practice/system? Not once a patient is in trouble and has to come into the hospital for care. But once they are diagnosed. "Doctor, I've have been diagnosed with a positive case of COVID-19." And the doctors says okay sir, madam here is what we are going to do to treat you "________________."

Unless I am mistaken, the last time I asked this question it seemed as though all you were sharing were a couple of steps that were taken when people are in trouble, and the rest was insider privileged info. If my suggestions of solid early treatment protocol options from medical professionals are "quack home remedies", then what would you or your hospital system tell a person who just contracted COVID?

If they are judged high risk they get MABs. Early in hospitalization they get remdesivir. If hypoxemic they get steroids. They can also opt into randomized controlled trials. If I heard a hospital was doling out vitamins and ivermectin/HCQ I'd assumed it's staffed with quacks.

 

[bobbyok1]

If they are judged high risk they get MABs. Early in hospitalization they get remdesivir. If hypoxemic they get steroids. They can also opt into randomized controlled trials. If I heard a hospital was doling out vitamins and ivermectin/HCQ I'd assumed it's staffed with quacks.

The MAB's and steroids are part of early treatment protocols for many of the doctors involved in the studies I've cited above. The viewpoint I shared earlier on Ivermectin/Zinc/Azithromycin was not an exclusive method, as is shown in those studies. That combination was included as part of a 4 phase treatment process ranging from early treatment (once diagnosed) to late treatment (hospitalization and serious complications) most notably being promoted by a non-quack doctor, Dr Peter McCollough (yes I know there are already smear articles on the guy who was about as highly touted as they come in the medical field UNTIL he opposed the group think of big pharma/CDC). I am sure he will continue to be a labeled quack, as is anyone who dares go against group think, as ineffective as it has been.

So, we'll probably not see eye to eye on this. Glad to hear your practice isn't sending high risk people home to suffer it out until they get can't breath.

 

[PerthDomer]

The MAB's and steroids are part of early treatment protocols for many of the doctors involved in the studies I've cited above. The viewpoint I shared earlier on Ivermectin/Zinc/Azithromycin was not an exclusive method, as is shown in those studies. That combination was included as part of a 4 phase treatment process ranging from early treatment (once diagnosed) to late treatment (hospitalization and serious complications) most notably being promoted by a non-quack doctor, Dr Peter McCollough (yes I know there are already smear articles on the guy who was about as highly touted as they come in the medical field UNTIL he opposed the group think of big pharma/CDC). I am sure he will continue to be a labeled quack, as is anyone who dares go against group think, as ineffective as it has been.

So, we'll probably not see eye to eye on this. Glad to hear your practice isn't sending high risk people home to suffer it out until they get can't breath.

Doctors want to help, and frequently in our history we've done things that have been counterproductive. A mentor of mine once told me "Don't just do something, stand there". Basically if you overtreat and course correct too much you can undermine your management and worsen outcomes. This is a disease with about a 10% mortality for admitted patients. Probably about a 10% rate of admission for positive patients. Anything you tey to do to help the 10% can kill the 90%. This is why you need rigorous trials so you can make sure to DO NO HARM. Early on many doctors gave anticoagulants to all patients. Now we know in non ICU patients that probably increased mortality. We did HCQ without evidence. No positive impacts and some signs of harm. We need to make science based decisions and just doing something to do it without real numbers is BAD.

 

[RDU Irish]

Hospitals mandate flu shots yearly. The people I know who are quitting or getting out of the ICU are burned out by the last 18 months and especially our current entirely preventable wave of the pandemic. In terms of elective shutdowns, outside of the fog of the 1st wave they've been driven by capacity constraints. You can't do a bunch of procedures requiring post procedure hospital stays if there are no beds.

Honestly as an ICU doc I know 0 nurses or doctors who aren't pro mandate. The anti mandate people tend to be less educated members of the hospital staff or nurses who don't care for covid patients. F antivaxxers is a pretty frequent thing you hear in the break rooms or on the floor.

So in 18 months and trillions of dollars - nothing could be done to increase capacity? And driving people out of the hospital workforce somehow helps the cause?

I'm with Bobby OK - as a healthcare consumer, early treatment protocols are trash. All the focus is on detection and treating people in the hospital. Can't even get a clean response for what to do from point A (test positive) to point B (admitted to hospital). Conflating a flu vaccine with decades of history behind it to these rushed to market Covid vaccines that use new technology doesn't instill confidence either.

 

[RDU Irish]

Doctors want to help, and frequently in our history we've done things that have been counterproductive. A mentor of mine once told me "Don't just do something, stand there". Basically if you overtreat and course correct too much you can undermine your management and worsen outcomes. This is a disease with about a 10% mortality for admitted patients. Probably about a 10% rate of admission for positive patients. Anything you tey to do to help the 10% can kill the 90%. This is why you need rigorous trials so you can make sure to DO NO HARM. Early on many doctors gave anticoagulants to all patients. Now we know in non ICU patients that probably increased mortality. We did HCQ without evidence. No positive impacts and some signs of harm. We need to make science based decisions and just doing something to do it without real numbers is BAD.

Which is why young, healthy folks are totally valid in waiting for more data before getting vaccinated. Why take an action if no action has statistically zero chance of harm? First and foremost a person should have the right not to harm themselves.

 

[PerthDomer]

Which is why young, healthy folks are totally valid in waiting for more data before getting vaccinated. Why take an action if no action has statistically zero chance of harm? First and foremost a person should have the right not to harm themselves.

The vaccines have more evidence than any prior approved vaccine. We had our 1st dead healthy teen last month in Seattle. This kills and maims the old and young alike with mortality being higher in everyone over the age of 4 than the seasonal flu.

 

[yankeehater]

If they are judged high risk they get MABs. Early in hospitalization they get remdesivir. If hypoxemic they get steroids. They can also opt into randomized controlled trials. If I heard a hospital was doling out vitamins and ivermectin/HCQ I'd assumed it's staffed with quacks.

This is what I don't understand. Many in the medical industry knock the treatment of doctors who recommend hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin. Remdesivir had never met approval for use prior to covid and even had trials stopped because it was deemed toxic in previous studies. Gilead even stated it will not save one life that would not have already survived the virus. Steroids do not stop the virus and actually suppress the immune system. It is amazing to me our standard of care has not changed during the course of the pandemic.

The only real cure/treatment we had was Leronlimab which showed 82% (5 times the placebo group) survival rate in its phase 3 covid severe/critical study, but the FDA had the shots stopped before the midway point of the trial.

The video that Razor posted of the Dr. Malone interview that was the most amazing thing that came out of it was the doctor's reaction when Leronlimab was mentioned and what had occurred in the trial.

 

[Wild Bill]

Hospitals mandate flu shots yearly. The people I know who are quitting or getting out of the ICU are burned out by the last 18 months and especially our current entirely preventable wave of the pandemic. In terms of elective shutdowns, outside of the fog of the 1st wave they've been driven by capacity constraints. You can't do a bunch of procedures requiring post procedure hospital stays if there are no beds.

Honestly as an ICU doc I know 0 nurses or doctors who aren't pro mandate. The anti mandate people tend to be less educated members of the hospital staff or nurses who don't care for covid patients. F antivaxxers is a pretty frequent thing you hear in the break rooms or on the floor.

My wife is a nurse and her experience is different. A lot of her of colleagues are opposed to the mandate but it's not a very fashionable opinion to have so conversation on the topic is limited.

 

[phork]

Imagine a world where mechanics tell ballerinas they are dancing wrong. Incredible.

 

[PerthDomer]

My wife is a nurse and her experience is different. A lot of her of colleagues are opposed to the mandate but it's not a very fashionable opinion to have so conversation on the topic is limited.

What unit does your wife work in?

 

[Black Irish]

Imagine a world where mechanics tell ballerinas they are dancing wrong. Incredible.

Maybe the mechanic has a younger sister who is a ballerina and he has enough exposure to that world that he can identify flaws on how ballerinas are dancing that he can tell that they are dancing wrong. Conversely, his ballerina sister can tell when a shady mechanic is trying to rip her off thanks to the knowledge she gleaned rebuilding car engines with her big brother growing up. Sounds like a good world to me where people have a diversity of knowledge and interests and have the freedom to express those opinions without getting told to shut up and stay in your lane.

 

[Wild Bill]

What unit does your wife work in?

Transplant.

 

[PerthDomer]

Transplant.

That's a place where an unvaccinated nurse could quite literally kill their patient.

 

[Irishize]

So in 18 months and trillions of dollars - nothing could be done to increase capacity? And driving people out of the hospital workforce somehow helps the cause?

Can’t speak for other hospitals but the one my wife is an RN at did expand capacity w/ government funds. They’re one of the few that isn’t having issues w/ bed shortages. Why more hospitals didn’t take advantage of this is a mystery to me.

She also continually tells me that the average person doesn’t realize how bad it is. She echoes what most of us hear which is the the majority of patients that are in the ICU are unvaccinated & in poor health to begin with. She has to put peg tubes in a lot of them so she’s seeing it up close & personal. To be blunt, she told me most look like they’re already dead.

Additionally, she participated in an MAB trial which commenced almost immediately after the pandemic started. She had no issues w/ the treatment (and was later confirmed to be in the active treatment arm) but was encouraged to get the vax after so many months b/c they didn’t know the length of protection the MAB provided. She knew the vax would kick her ass due to some autoimmune issues and it did but she’s protected which her & her peers need considering how exposed they are to COVID patients.

 

[Wild Bill]

That's a place where an unvaccinated nurse could quite literally kill their patient.

You are more concerned than the hospital - they perform transplants on covid postiive patients and they have covid patients on the same floor as transplant patients, so she routinely provides care for both covid and transplant patients on the same shift.

It's one of the leading transplant hospitals in the nation and she works with some brilliant doctors. I assume they know what they're doing but I'm merely a mechanic who isn't going to tell the ballerinas how to dance.