Chicago White Sox... The thread.

Rogue219

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The Twins threw behind Yermin Mercedes last night because he homered the night before off of a position player who was pitching on a 3-0 count.

White Sox manager Tony LaRussa said after the game he was totally fine with the Twins deliberately doing this to his best hitter.

I guess no one should be surprised, but I figured maybe he'd get past Memorial Day before he lost his team. Best team in baseball and he's made it a clown show.
 

Dale

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The Twins threw behind Yermin Mercedes last night because he homered the night before off of a position player who was pitching on a 3-0 count.

White Sox manager Tony LaRussa said after the game he was totally fine with the Twins deliberately doing this to his best hitter.

I guess no one should be surprised, but I figured maybe he'd get past Memorial Day before he lost his team. Best team in baseball and he's made it a clown show.

Would they be the best team in baseball and have the best record without him though? His press clippings are a bit worse that they used to be but hard ass, old school, but good coaching La Russa was what he was with the Cardinals for years. Some players certainly didn’t like him but as long as the team is together as players the locker room is fine. Jim Edmonds, others who will publicly say they didn’t really like La Russa aren’t exactly returning their World Series rings anytime soon.
 

Irishize

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Ozzie pulled Freddy after he gave up a HR to Manny leading off the 6th and then Marte loaded the bases with all walks or a hit followed by tow walks... then El Duque cane in and performed the miracle. Was just telling someone that was the most intense thing I can remember in sports. Seemed like it took a half hour for him to get those three outs, it may have... it was over 20 pitches and El Duque put on a show.

You hit the nail on the head about the starters. That staff won't be confused with other HOF staffs that go down in history but I'd have to think really hard and dig deep to find anyone who matched that post season.

Thanks for adding Takatsu, I skipped that and it's important to tell that story and who Ozzie/Coop transitioned Hermanson from an 8th inning guy to closer over time. They shipped Takatsu off at some point after he sat in the pen for a while.

And the only HOFer (that I can recall) on the regular season roster was left off the post-season roster. I can’t remember was Frank Thomas battling injuries to be left off? I know he left Chicago soon after the WS to wrap up his career in OAK & TOR.
 

Southside Sully

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Would they be the best team in baseball and have the best record without him though? His press clippings are a bit worse that they used to be but hard ass, old school, but good coaching La Russa was what he was with the Cardinals for years. Some players certainly didn’t like him but as long as the team is together as players the locker room is fine. Jim Edmonds, others who will publicly say they didn’t really like La Russa aren’t exactly returning their World Series rings anytime soon.

Yes he is responsible with some bad managing decisions for at least 4-5 losses.
 

Dale

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Yes he is responsible with some bad managing decisions for at least 4-5 losses.

I won’t pretend to have watched every Sox game but saying you’d be 29-12 which by a gap would be the best record in baseball without TLR seems like a bit unlikely. You’re attributing 25% of your losses to a manager because it’s always easy to pin a loss on the guy not on the field.
 

Rogue219

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Would they be the best team in baseball and have the best record without him though? His press clippings are a bit worse that they used to be but hard ass, old school, but good coaching La Russa was what he was with the Cardinals for years. Some players certainly didn’t like him but as long as the team is together as players the locker room is fine. Jim Edmonds, others who will publicly say they didn’t really like La Russa aren’t exactly returning their World Series rings anytime soon.

I think they bolstered the coaching staff around him and that's a huge reason why they are where they are in addition to their talent. Don Cooper was their pitching coach for nearly two decades. Hiring Ethan Katz was long overdue.

I think to this point Tony has cost them more games than he has won them. Now you have this situation, which anyone with a brain stem could have seen coming when they hired him, but I don't think I have ever seen a manager apologize for his player not really doing anything and then encouraging the opposition to throw at his player.

This is Chicago and Minnesota, too, which I thought was a pretty decent divisional rivalry as baseball rivalries go.

Looking forward to hearing from their front office.
 

Rogue219

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Yes he is responsible with some bad managing decisions for at least 4-5 losses.

There was one instance where he, nor anyone on his bench, knew a particular rule a few weeks ago?

Best record in baseball but it seems week after week they're making stories for the wrong reasons.

There is no way this guy has changed and frankly I have no idea how he can hold things together for them to win a World Series. His presence is absolutely mindboggling due to a hire that made absolutely zero sense to everyone but the chairman of team, who empowered his son to hire a competent front office for their NBA team and seem to have good days ahead.

Jerry should let Rick Hahn do his job and they should have a real manager, not some clown show.

So much for AJ Hinch's past with the Astros being a toxic distraction.
 

Rogue219

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Rocco Baldelli chose to use a position player to pitch so he could save his 6-8 relievers for the next game. This is old man, outdated nonsense we're dealing with and this bozo has made a mountain out of a mole hill. He basically said he took issue with Mercedes ignoring the take sign on 3-0 but he would have been able to swing on 3-1 if he hadn't been walked on four pitches.

This is ridiculous nonsense due to antiquated baseball thinking of a person who had no business being hired in the first place. LaRussa had a rep at one point of being a player's manager in the 80s. That ceased being the case in St. Louis for some reason. Nobody in their right mind would want a guy like this with a team like this in 2021. It's mental.

They're so fun as so many of us expected they would be. They're as good as they are fun, too. Their chairman did a very dumb thing hiring his friend, who the game has passed by.
 

BobbyMac

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Rocco Baldelli chose to use a position player to pitch so he could save his 6-8 relievers for the next game. This is old man, outdated nonsense we're dealing with and this bozo has made a mountain out of a mole hill. He basically said he took issue with Mercedes ignoring the take sign on 3-0 but he would have been able to swing on 3-1 if he hadn't been walked on four pitches.

This is ridiculous nonsense due to antiquated baseball thinking of a person who had no business being hired in the first place. LaRussa had a rep at one point of being a player's manager in the 80s. That ceased being the case in St. Louis for some reason. Nobody in their right mind would want a guy like this with a team like this in 2021. It's mental.

They're so fun as so many of us expected they would be. They're as good as they are fun, too. Their chairman did a very dumb thing hiring his friend, who the game has passed by.


While I've agreed with this take and the games he's lost have been pretty noticeable... Here we are, the best team in the AL without Jiminez & Robert.

What scares me most is... Bobby Knight's one of his best friends.
 

Rogue219

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While I've agreed with this take and the games he's lost have been pretty noticeable... Here we are, the best team in the AL without Jiminez & Robert.

What scares me most is... Bobby Knight's one of his best friends.

There is the least shocking post I will read ever.

Jerry wanted this. He'd better hope that clubhouse holds together on and off the field. The 76 year old hired fresh off his second DUI is doing exactly what everyone thought. He can't believe he's being asked questions about this and doesn't understand why it's a topic. Shows he blatantly out of touch he and Jerry really are. I question why Rick Hahn stays there. He could go anywhere and do anything with his resume.

Implement a ten run mercy rule like high school and be done with it if these crusty old assholes can't handle their feelings being hurt or a new generation of player enjoying the sport at the professional rather than reverring it like "work."

The fact that this sport is still having to endure these kinds of situations is absolutely ridiculous.
 

Wild Bill

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Rocco Baldelli chose to use a position player to pitch so he could save his 6-8 relievers for the next game. This is old man, outdated nonsense we're dealing with and this bozo has made a mountain out of a mole hill. He basically said he took issue with Mercedes ignoring the take sign on 3-0 but he would have been able to swing on 3-1 if he hadn't been walked on four pitches.

This is ridiculous nonsense due to antiquated baseball thinking of a person who had no business being hired in the first place. LaRussa had a rep at one point of being a player's manager in the 80s. That ceased being the case in St. Louis for some reason. Nobody in their right mind would want a guy like this with a team like this in 2021. It's mental.

They're so fun as so many of us expected they would be. They're as good as they are fun, too. Their chairman did a very dumb thing hiring his friend, who the game has passed by.

I fall somewhere in between on this one.

I hated the LaRussa hire, he definitely has cost them a few games, and I don't think he should have went after Yermin publicly. In fact, I don't agree at all with the logic that Yermin shouldn't be swinging for the fences. Whoever they had lobbing pitches out there didn't apologize for the two outs prior to Yermins AB so why the hell should Yermin not take a swing. If LaRussa wants to privately reprimand him for ignoring the sign, fair enough, but there is no reason to tell the media any of this. You can simply tell them that you'll handle it internally - next question. Tell Yermin not to ignore your signs and if you feel compelled, call Baldelli and tell him that he ignored your sign and you dealt with the issue. That's, that. And I can't think of a faster way to lose your team then to tell the media that you had no problem with the Twins throwing at one of your players. So dumb.

That said, I think some of this "old man nonsense" isn't all that bad for a young team that can win. Feel free to rip a players ass for flipping a bat, shitty on field demeanor, not running out a routine grounder, etc. I think that's fine and those small things are meaningful in terms of overall discipline, toughness, etc. And to be fair, despite being young and seemingly "fun", this team is relatively disciplined, very tough and extremely competitive. Does LaRussa play a role in that or is it just the character of the players on this team? I really don't know.

It seems like Abreu is the glue that keeps this team together. If he backs LaRussa this stuff is probably memory holed by August. If he loses Abreu, this could get real ugly.

Here's something I was pondering about the Yermin HR. What role does an incentive driven contract play in a situation like this? Let's say the Sox are down two runs and need a guy on the bases - of course the contract is irrelevant. You have to take and get on base. But this was a completely irrelevant pitch. Why should Yermin take if it could cost him money? Why wouldn't a manager let him swing away to make sure he meets goals to get paid?
 

pumpdog20

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So LaRussa got mad his player hit a 3-0 HR off a position player while ahead by many runs and it’s a thing now.

He actually apologized to the Twins.

Average median age of a baseball fan is 55. These unwritten rules are why.

These are pros getting paid.

TLR can get bent for throwing Mercedes under the bus.
 

BobbyMac

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There is the least shocking post I will read ever.

Jerry wanted this. He'd better hope that clubhouse holds together on and off the field. The 76 year old hired fresh off his second DUI is doing exactly what everyone thought. He can't believe he's being asked questions about this and doesn't understand why it's a topic. Shows he blatantly out of touch he and Jerry really are. I question why Rick Hahn stays there. He could go anywhere and do anything with his resume.

Implement a ten run mercy rule like high school and be done with it if these crusty old assholes can't handle their feelings being hurt or a new generation of player enjoying the sport at the professional rather than reverring it like "work."

The fact that this sport is still having to endure these kinds of situations is absolutely ridiculous.

Ehh... as a Sox lifer, I'm just gonna enjoy this till it's not enjoyable. As much as I see the warning signs, I also see a club who mirrors the Royals / Cubs / Astros rebuilds. The Sox bull pen is potentially historic, you can run their 3-4-5's out against anyone's 1-2-3 right now and their #6 is the best starter on the staff. Don't even need to talk about their #1 Offense.
 

Wild Bill

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Ehh... as a Sox lifer, I'm just gonna enjoy this till it's not enjoyable. As much as I see the warning signs, I also see a club who mirrors the Royals / Cubs / Astros rebuilds. The Sox bull pen is potentially historic, you can run their 3-4-5's out against anyone's 1-2-3 right now and their #6 is the best starter on the staff. Don't even need to talk about their #1 Offense.

Agreed. I lost interest in most sports outside of ND and the Sox recently. I hate being inside in the summer so I added a TV to my outdoor setup last year and watched a lot of their games. Plan on getting comfy out there again this year with stone poney and Benneti.
 

Rogue219

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Ehh... as a Sox lifer, I'm just gonna enjoy this till it's not enjoyable. As much as I see the warning signs, I also see a club who mirrors the Royals / Cubs / Astros rebuilds. The Sox bull pen is potentially historic, you can run their 3-4-5's out against anyone's 1-2-3 right now and their #6 is the best starter on the staff. Don't even need to talk about their #1 Offense.

I think this group of players in beyond unified and are something special. Hopefully Tony doesn't screw anything up for them that costs them big.

They should also maintain their assets long term and not do anything foolish as far as trades go. The two Cubans don't need to be rushed back this season, if at all.
 

BobbyMac

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Agreed. I lost interest in most sports outside of ND and the Sox recently. I hate being inside in the summer so I added a TV to my outdoor setup last year and watched a lot of their games. Plan on getting comfy out there again this year with stone poney and Benneti.

My sentiments exactly. I've felt like both have been building something. The Sox are obvious and I expect at lest one title. ND keeps making the right moves and if Buchner's the guy, they'll get their chance in '23 / '24.

Following progress of the process is meaningful for me.

As far as the patio... Hung Cabana curtains up last weekend myself.
 

BobbyMac

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I think this group of players in beyond unified and are something special. Hopefully Tony doesn't screw anything up for them that costs them big.

They should also maintain their assets long term and not do anything foolish as far as trades go. The two Cubans don't need to be rushed back this season, if at all.

Were you surprised TL didn't go after AP?
 

Rogue219

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Injuries galore and still rolling on.

I think they will need to get some bullpen help by the deadline to see this through. Rumor is Jerry DiPoto is already shopping his four best relievers from the Mariners' bullpen. This Rick Hahn seems like a smart fellow and I'm sure he'll have some moves before July 31st.

With Madrigal done for the year, maybe a call to the Pirates about Adam Frazier since he's making $4.3M a year and is on a one year deal. You can get him for next to nothing. Bat him second behind Anderson.

It's mid June and the two young Cuban OF are expected back by August/September. Things are looking up. Keep beating up the bad teams and win series against the good ones. 90+ wins are in sight.
 

Rogue219

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Sweep at Yankees and now a sweep at Astros. Best thing for them is to keep beating up the bad teams, wait to get healthy and get July trade help. Then hope your manager doesn't do as many dumb things as he is capable of.

Mercedes might need some time off or even some time in Charlotte. His trend down started before "the incident" and it would seem mechanical more than anything. Get the hitting coaches with him.

Still a very fun team that is going places. They just need to get their Cuban OF back and find some help on the trade market. They can package fringe prospects to Pittsburgh for Frazier and Rodriguez. Two birds with one stone.
 

Southside Sully

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Ya thankfully its June not september. Amazing still what they are doing with all the injuries. Need to hunker down and get confidence back against the Pirates and beat up on them. Time for Hahn to go out and get one or 2 guys. I do like the Frazier call and wouldn't have to give up much.
 

Rogue219

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June:
Moncada: .216/.328/.314, 87 wRC+
Abreu: .186/.219/.300, 43 wRC+
Mercedes: .115/.164/.135, -14 wRC+
Eaton: .161/.235/.226, 33 wRC+
Vaughn: .226/.263/.396, 80 wRC+

Everyone is being bad at the same time.
 

Rogue219

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Really enjoy watching this team, but they have not really improved defensively in the last three years. I'd consider that troubling now that their World Series window appears to be opening.
 

Wild Bill

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Really enjoy watching this team, but they have not really improved defensively in the last three years. I'd consider that troubling now that their World Series window appears to be opening.

The pitching staff has been atrocious defensively this year, that's for sure. I think the rest of the team will be fine once they get some people healthy. Getting Robert back will certainly help whoever is in left field, I'd take Vaughn over Eloy and DH Eloy this year.
 

Crazy Balki

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The pitching staff has been atrocious defensively this year, that's for sure. I think the rest of the team will be fine once they get some people healthy. Getting Robert back will certainly help whoever is in left field, I'd take Vaughn over Eloy and DH Eloy this year.

Yeah. Completely agree.

The fielding is nothing to write home about, but it looks loads better than it did 3 years ago.

The biggest gaff yesterday on defense came courtesy of Cease, because he can't field and execute a double play and then throws it off balance into the wall. Easily gave the Pirates 2 runs.
 
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