ITT I tell you the truth about ND football

[OSU_Fan14]

sure...

He never went to two BCS bowls either... Ty had a team the Davie stocked with talent... remember Davie couldn't coach but he could recruit... and Ty got blown out just as much and looked just as bad on offense at times... not in one year but in all three... again with better overall talent... CW does deserve a TON of heat here but the comparrison to Ty IS unfair to BOTH... I do feel it's a point worth making...

Also, two things matter in cfb... recruiting and coaching... the teams that have been in the top five ever year over the last five or so years... LSU, USC, Teaxs and Florida... that's no coincidence... so in my mind with OR without cw... notre dame's future looks a lot brighter after year three of CW then it did after year three of Ty.

not ND-hating here but w/ who's recruits did he go to the BCS bowls with?

and you cant use before weis' first season....ive been told those werent his recruits

 

[BeatSC]

I'm willing to continue to suffer through one more year and consider giving CW a fifth as long as ND does the following next year:
-Wins 8 or mor egames
- Does not lose any game by more than 20 points
- Improves in every statistical category in 2008
- Ne retarded coaching decisions like yesterday
- Another top 10 recruitug class.
- a kicker who can make a field goal and kickoof inside the 5 yard line

Are thes request unresaonable? I think they should be minimum expectations.

 

[GoIrish41]

I'm willing to continue to suffer through one more year and consider giving CW a fifth as long as ND does the following next year:
-Wins 8 or mor egames
- Does not lose any game by more than 20 points
- Improves in every statistical category in 2008
- Ne retarded coaching decisions like yesterday
- Another top 10 recruitug class.
- a kicker who can make a field goal and kickoof inside the 5 yard line

Are thes request unresaonable? I think they should be minimum expectations.

-Wins 8 or more games ... THE SCHEDULE IS SUCH THAT THIS SHOULD BE EXPECTED
- Does not lose any game by more than 20 points ... SEE ABOVE
- Improves in every statistical category in 2008 ... THAT SHOULD NOT BE DIFFICULT
- Ne retarded coaching decisions like yesterday ... CHARLIE, THIS IS UP TO YOU
- Another top 10 recruitug class. ... THEY HAVE TO WIN GAMES TO DO THIS NEXT YR
- a kicker who can make a field goal and kickoof inside the 5 yard line ... WHO KNOWS

I think those are reasonable expectations. If we don't start winning next year, its probably time to go in a different direction. I'm not on the Fire Charlie bandwagon, but I am a realist.

 

[NDOM]

-Wins 8 or more games ... THE SCHEDULE IS SUCH THAT THIS SHOULD BE EXPECTED
- Does not lose any game by more than 20 points ... SEE ABOVE
- Improves in every statistical category in 2008 ... THAT SHOULD NOT BE DIFFICULT
- Ne retarded coaching decisions like yesterday ... CHARLIE, THIS IS UP TO YOU
- Another top 10 recruitug class. ... THEY HAVE TO WIN GAMES TO DO THIS NEXT YR
- a kicker who can make a field goal and kickoof inside the 5 yard line ... WHO KNOWS

I think those are reasonable expectations. If we don't start winning next year, its probably time to go in a different direction. I'm not on the Fire Charlie bandwagon, but I am a realist.

didnt most of us think that this year we would win 8 or 9 games? I did. So why do we think we should be able to win 10 next year when we cant even beat Navy this year?????

 

[BeatSC]

8 wins or more

8 wins or more

The schedule appears to be a little easier and we start with a very winnable game (SDSU). I would take 7 wins if one of them were agianst USC.

 

[Timugen]

The schedule appears to be a little easier and we start with a very winnable game (SDSU).

And exactly what, at this point, leads you to believe that is a "very winnable game?" We could be lining up against Penn (Mishawaka, IN...High School) next week and I would, in all seriousness, not consider that a "very winnable game."

 

[ACamp1900]

not ND-hating here but w/ who's recruits did he go to the BCS bowls with?

and you cant use before weis' first season....ive been told those werent his recruits

then you can't use this season either... only the sophs and true freshman are his NOW

 

[Master Guns]

That's right. I am going to tell you the unbiased truth. Some of you may want to hear it and some of you may not.

Some of you will hate me because I am not a rah rah ND homer no matter the cost. That is all fine. I expect it. You are entitled to your view and I mine.

So, let's get to it.

Charlie Weis is not going to be a great coach. He doesn't have it in him. The sooner this is accepted the better off we will all be. He was outcoached all over the field yesterday by Paul Johnson. That isn't an opinion, that is a fact. Paul Johnson played with athletes not 1/2 as talented as Notre Dame's and played against a line that had a 50 lb advantage per man. And what did he do with that disadvantage, he coached his way to making it an advantage.

Charlie may be a good recruiter - we'll see if these alleged GREAT classes translate into wins on the gridiron - but he is not impressing anyone as a game day coach. He bragged of revolutionizing the offensive game and he put out a team that is one of the worst offensive teams in the history of the NCAA.

Charlie's affiliation with Tom Brady and New England made him stand out among a lot of the candidates interviewed for the ND job, but I am now more convinced than ever that he was not the mastermind behind those teams. In fact, it is becoming increasingly more clear that he might not have been all that involved at all.

Great coaches adapt and this guy doesn't.

So, the question becomes when is enough, enough?

If he loses 2 of the next 3, which I truly think he will, is it not time to eat the $$$ and move on? We fired Ty after 3 and quite frankly he never, never looked as bad as Weis has this year. Brady Quinn may have masked Charlie's ineptness until this year, but it is as clear as day now.

Very solid post. Something is up in the ND Football braintrust and it is very scary. People need to admit it in IE. That was Navy that hung around and forced 3XOT's yesterday against blue chippers wearing the blue and gold. Comes done to poor play calling yesterday exposed it to the bone, once and for all. Hope CW can turn it around, but if they lose to Duke, its time for an A#$ chewing fom the AD and say goodbye to some of your assitant coaches.

 

[Master Guns]

I'm willing to continue to suffer through one more year and consider giving CW a fifth as long as ND does the following next year:
-Wins 8 or mor egames
- Does not lose any game by more than 20 points
- Improves in every statistical category in 2008
- Ne retarded coaching decisions like yesterday
- Another top 10 recruitug class.
- a kicker who can make a field goal and kickoof inside the 5 yard line

Are thes request unresaonable? I think they should be minimum expectations.

Left out go to some kind of bowl game and WIN it!

 

[GoshenGipper]

not ND-hating here but w/ who's recruits did he go to the BCS bowls with?

and you cant use before weis' first season....ive been told those werent his recruits

Most of those guys were Ty's recruits although some were still left from Davie, but being an OSU fan I sure you don't follow the program that closely so you wouldn't realize that many of the guys that became stars in Wies first two years either hardly ever saw the field under Willingham or ver very inconsistant at best. Ask those guys and see which staff they credit for developing their skills? It's Weis's not Ty's.

No they weren't his recruits and no Irish fans want to make them out to be it wasn't a very good class to begin with, and Ty's staff did a horible job trying to hold them together after the writing was on the wall. It was a bad class and it would be a diservice to credit them to him.

 

[JeremyND07]

OK seriously guys...you CANNOT use the lack of recruiting in Ty's last year as an excuse for CW anymore!!!! Take a wild guess where Navy ranks in recruiting this year...105...118 in 2007, and 93 in 2006!!!! Weis was out coached PERIOD!!! The talent level on the next (3) teams on our schedule is very similar to Navy! None of them are even close to ND!!! Even though he does not deserve it...Weis could lose the next (3) games and he is not going anywhere!!!!! 7 wins and a bowl game and he is going no where next year. 2009 will be the year Weis will really be on the hot seat.

The biggest factor in this game was coaching and HEART!!!! Navy played with more heart then any team I have seen play ND in the past 10 years!!!! I applaud those young men for winning against a team that had them outmatched in every aspect of the game!!!!

 

[GoIrish41]

Great post Jeremy.

 

[BestBIrish47]

Here is a perspective...take it for what it is worth
1. THE SKY IS NOT FALLING
2. THIS YEAR HAS SUCKED BIG TIME
3. NAVY OUT PLAYED US
4. OUT COACHED US
5. WE HAD EVERYTHING TO LOSE IN THAT GAME, ALL THE PRESSURE
6. MANY TIMES THIS YEAR WE HAVE BEEN UN PREPARED- NOT TALKING GAME PLAN HERE I AM TALKING ABOUT MATCHING INTENSITY
7. THE SUN WILL COME UP TODAY, NEXT DAY
8. WE WILL WIN ALOT OF GAMES VERY SOON
9. CHANGING COACHES IS THE WORST THING WE CAN DO FOR THE NEXT 3 YEARS
10. NBC'S COVERAGE IS STILL BAD
11. I HAVE DOUBTED OUR COACHING STAFF'S ABILITY TO DEVELOPE PLAYERS... BUT TAKE THAT WITH A GRAIN OF SALT....GIVE THESE RECRUITS TWO YEARS TO PROGRESS THEN MAKE THE JUDGEMENT.
12. WEIS IS THE GUY, HE WILL TAKE US TO THE NEXT LEVEL
13. RECRUITING IS EQUALLY IMPORTANT AT NOTRE DAME AS WINS
14. DON'T BAIL OUT AGAIN GUYS... THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS PEOPLE HATE US
15. ADVERSITY AT A YOUNG STAGE OF A PLAYERS CAREER CAN BE A GOOD THING
16. GO IRISH

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Whose job is it to recognize that a new offensive coordinator is necessary? I think you know the answer to that question and someone's EGO will never allow that to happen. You are in a DREAM world if you think otherwise.

As to his recruiting, I restate my original opinion. He is ALLEGEDLY a good recruiter. Frankly, I don't give a crap what Rivals or someone else says about HS kids who commit to ND. Until those rankings translate into wins, they mean NOTHING.

Charlie has brought in 3 years of so called stellar recruits yet this is one of the worst teams in the country this year. Plenty of other programs have had way WORSE recruiting rankings for the past 10 years in a row and they don't look nearly as horrible as this team.

So stop giving this guy a free pass unless you tell me when you are going to hold him accountable. Next year? The year after? You tell me when enough is enough.

And don't even tell me the comparison's to Ty are meaningless. Ty had plenty of flaws, but he never was this bad on Saturdays. NEVER.

I think you made some excellent points that most of us can agree on in your first post. I'd beg to differ on the comparison w/ TY, but that's another thread.

One point of contention I have is in the above post. You, like Mark May did Sat. nite, mistakenly quoted Charlie's recruiting classes. At least you got the number right (3) whereas May quoted (4).

Let me set the record straight: Weis has brought in TWO years of "so called stellar recruits". While I know of teams forced to play true freshman early & they do well, I still don't think you can make an apples to apples comparison b/c they still have plenty of experienced DEPTH to surround them. Auburn's OL comes to mind.

I would agree that skill players can make an immediate impact & we haven't seen what's been expected from Aldridge, Hughes, Tate, Ragone, Kamara, Allen, etc. However, OL; are a different story. 3 of the 5 are true frosh or first year starters. Sam Young has seemed to regress, but he's one of the more reliable of the bunch. Sullivan has shown he has been a weak link along the OL the last three years. Duncan is horrible and, for the record, was not a "stellar recruit" but someone who fell under the TW/CW class that, I believe, is the smallest ever, or at least in recent memory.

The problem I believe most of us have is the fact that we have seen zero improvement from the offense. And it all starts at the OL. Sharpley has proven that the back-up role is where he is best suited. 5 star recruit, James Aldridge, has seemed to not have bounced back from his knee injury. It also seems the down time has added some unwanted pounds which may be slowing him down.

While I put the majority of the onus on Weis b/c, quite frankly, he asked for it by writing a check w/ his mouth that his performance can't cash. But, Willingham's unexcusable lack of recruiting BCS type players has put this team in a deep hole when it comes to depth. You would think this program rec'd NCAA probation by the way of scholarship limitations when looking at the depth chart. Seven scholarship seniors & 14 scholarship juniors?

Finally, IMO, Weis gets one more year on a short leash. As fans, we should all hope for a rapid turnaround, b/c this program, I believe, cannot survive another coaching change...4 in the last 10 years already. This team has not truly competed for an NC since 1993. That would put today's HS seniors at 5-6 yrs of age. I doubt they remember that team. After this failure of a season on the field, if Weis retains EVERY verbal he currently has, it will be his first signature win, albeit off the field.

I know we all suffer from loss of short-term memory at times...we're human. So in ending, remember I agreed w/ everything you said in your first post (w/ the lone exception regarding TW vs. CW).

 

[IRISHDODGER]

OK seriously guys...you CANNOT use the lack of recruiting in Ty's last year as an excuse for CW anymore!!!! Take a wild guess where Navy ranks in recruiting this year...105...118 in 2007, and 93 in 2006!!!! Weis was out coached PERIOD!!! The talent level on the next (3) teams on our schedule is very similar to Navy! None of them are even close to ND!!! Even though he does not deserve it...Weis could lose the next (3) games and he is not going anywhere!!!!! 7 wins and a bowl game and he is going no where next year. 2009 will be the year Weis will really be on the hot seat.

The biggest factor in this game was coaching and HEART!!!! Navy played with more heart then any team I have seen play ND in the past 10 years!!!! I applaud those young men for winning against a team that had them outmatched in every aspect of the game!!!!

The lack of recruiting does lend to the lack of talented depth issue. Other than that, you're right, Weis gets the majority of the blame.

You hit the nail on the head in your last paragraph. I watched the game w/ my dad & we both agreed early on that this team seems to lack HEART. Teams like Navy & the other academies lick their chops when they face a team that is physically superior yet mentally inferior. That's why Navy put themselves in a position to win the game & why they outlasted ND in OT to win the game.

 

[johnnd05]

Great post, IrishDodger.

BestBIrish, I agree with most of what you say except 8, 12, and - especially!! - 13. Recruiting doesn't mean SH-T to me right now.

 

[JeremyND07]

The lack of recruiting does lend to the lack of talented depth issue. Other than that, you're right, Weis gets the majority of the blame.

Still a mute point when you are talking about Navy, Airforce, and Duke!!!! There lack of talent and depth issues FAR out way anything we could ever imagine!!!!!!!

 

[GoIrish41]

RECRUITING IS EQUALLY IMPORTANT AT NOTRE DAME AS WINS

You had me until this one. That's just crazy talk.

 

[goldandblue]

yeah, recruiting doesn't mean jack if you can't win on saturdays with the recruits.

 

[georgetwn]

I'm going to take issue with that. CW hasn't had three years of recruits, no matter what the Mark May's of the world say. This current class of HS Sr.s will be his third class almost the entire Jr. class was recruited by Willingham and when CW was hired he had about a month left to recruit.

You really can't use that as a valid argument. Last year, Nick Saban was hired by Alabama with about a month left, and he managed to turn in a top 15 recruiting class. I hate to say it, but coach Weiss will not lead us back.

 

[GoshenGipper]

You really can't use that as a valid argument. Last year, Nick Saban was hired by Alabama with about a month left, and he managed to turn in a top 15 recruiting class. I hate to say it, but coach Weiss will not lead us back.

Alabama also already had a decent class put together, in addition to having the ability to accept recruits with lower grades and test scores as well as Junior College transfers. Plus if you remember CW had two jobs at the time he was still the OC for a team on the way to the Super Bowl. He even lost one four star WR because the WR told him he wouldn't come to ND unless CW personally showed up to meet him on a specific day which he couldn't do because of his job with the Pats. So you're really the one that doesn't have a valid argument. Wow, great 1st post!

 

[NDBlue&IrishGoldMuskie]

After Saturday's loss, I am no longer able to defend the "Offensive Genius" that is Charlie Weis. This loss falls one place and one place only: squarely on the shoulders of CW! He had 2 weeks to prepare for Navy and that's the best he could do. There's no way that The United States Naval Academy should ever beat The University of Notre Dame on the football field. It's inexcusable! He was out coached in all aspects of the game. I don't buy his excuse for not attempting the FG at the end of the game either. You know what, kick the freakin thing. If it goes in, guess what you win the game. If not, then you head to OT any how. At least kicking it gives you a chance to end things in regulation. Notre Dame was quick to reward CW with that 10 year $40 million extension after his impressive loss at the hands of Ohio State in the Fiesta Bowl. Everyone was worried that the NFL would come and "steal him away" from ND. Well guess what, that's not gonna happen now. Now the Irish are stuck with CW and there's not much that can be done about it, (for now at least).

 

[bmf175]

In the past (look how long I have been on this site) I have been accussed of being too harsh on the team. The fact is that I just tell it how it is. I have used unbiased judgement many times and have proven to be right over the popular belief of this board.

I will say this, Charlie has taken us to a BCS bowl the last two years in a row. That alone is hard to do. So to say "HE WILL NEVER BE A GREAT COACH" is foolish. I blame a lot of the problems on the O-line.
I think fans ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO ND are quick to judge. You are being to quick to judge. The first time I ever doubted Charlie is when he did not kick the field goal. 4 yards is not enough to decide to put the game into overtime.

I think you should shut the help up and see what he does next year.

 

[GoshenGipper]

In the past (look how long I have been on this site) I have been accussed of being too harsh on the team. The fact is that I just tell it how it is. I have used unbiased judgement many times and have proven to be right over the popular belief of this board.

I will say this, Charlie has taken us to a BCS bowl the last two years in a row. That alone is hard to do. So to say "HE WILL NEVER BE A GREAT COACH" is foolish. I blame a lot of the problems on the O-line.
I think fans ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO ND are quick to judge. You are being to quick to judge. The first time I ever doubted Charlie is when he did not kick the field goal. 4 yards is not enough to decide to put the game into overtime.

I think you should shut the help up and see what he does next year.

Great freaking post, reps!

 

[Timugen]

In the past (look how long I have been on this site) I have been accussed of being too harsh on the team. The fact is that I just tell it how it is. I have used unbiased judgement many times and have proven to be right over the popular belief of this board.

I will say this, Charlie has taken us to a BCS bowl the last two years in a row. That alone is hard to do. So to say "HE WILL NEVER BE A GREAT COACH" is foolish. I blame a lot of the problems on the O-line.
I think fans ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO ND are quick to judge. You are being to quick to judge. The first time I ever doubted Charlie is when he did not kick the field goal. 4 yards is not enough to decide to put the game into overtime.

I think you should shut the help up and see what he does next year.

We were playing freaking NAVY, who had just been rolled up by a Div-IAA team. Again, I can handle the losses, but when you look at the performance on the field over 9 games....there's not a lot that inspires confidence in this coaching staff.

 

[Irish52]

I don't think Charlie's ego will permit him to take the mental anguish being directed his way for any long period of time. He will either resign or do what 95% of the fans/students want..and that is for him to hire an offensive coordinator before next season. I predict he will do the ladder.

 

[Irish52]

Offensive coordinator is on the way!

Offensive coordinator is on the way!

I don't think Charlie's ego will permit him to take the mental anguish being directed his way for any long period of time. He will either resign or do what 95% of the fans/students want..and that is for him to hire an offensive coordinator before next season. I predict he will do the ladder.

 

[IRISHDODGER]

Still a mute point when you are talking about Navy, Airforce, and Duke!!!! There lack of talent and depth issues FAR out way anything we could ever imagine!!!!!!!

Yup, it is a moot point. You can't coach heart.

But stranger things have happened. How lopsided was Michigan's talent & depth vs. Appalachian St.? Now they may very well win the Big 10 & go to the Rose Bowl. The Oregon game, though still an embarrassing blowout, looks a little better now that they are competing atop the BCS. Bottom line is that they're undefeated in conference play & have a legitmate shot at finally beating tOSU.

Navy, for all the shit they take, is a bowl team year in & year out. They're the Boston College of the non-BCS schools...they just don't always win their bowls. That doesn't excuse Notre Dame for not beating them by a minimum of 2 TDs