2016 Presidential Horse Race

[TomHaverford]

Decent and moral? Communism is the single most evil political structure ever devised by man. Mao killed more people than Hitler. And make no mistake, Bernie is a communist. He says "Democratic socialist" because it sounds more palatable to the American voter, but he's not a "decent and moral" man.

Lol. I swear to god people in this country are brain washed when it comes to politics and labels and definitions. The USSR wasn't a true communist country. China has never been a true communist country. There really hasn't been an actual true communist country as put forth by Marx. The terms have been hijacked and used as propaganda by both sides. The USSR saying look how great communism is! We're living proof!" Even though they weren't actually communist. And then by the West by saying look how evil communism is! They're living proof!"

And Bernie Sanders isn't a communist. Or a democratic socialist. Who even made that term up? He's basically a New Dealer. He wants to re-implement many of the policies of FDR and Eisenhower. And the guys track record speaks for itself. He's an honest, decent, moral person. Unlike Hilary or Trump. Who are both lying, self-serving, dishonest, power-hungry, ego-maniacs.

 

[GoIrish41]

Lol. I swear to god people in this country are brain washed when it comes to politics and labels and definitions. The USSR wasn't a true communist country. China has never been a true communist country. There really hasn't been an actual true communist country as put forth by Marx. The terms have been hijacked and used as propaganda by both sides. The USSR saying look how great communism is! We're living proof!" Even though they weren't actually communist. And then by the West by saying look how evil communism is! They're living proof!"

And Bernie Sanders isn't a communist. Or a democratic socialist. Who even made that term up? He's basically a New Dealer. He wants to re-implement many of the policies of FDR and Eisenhower. And the guys track record speaks for itself. He's an honest, decent, moral person. Unlike Hilary or Trump. Who are both lying, self-serving, dishonest, power-hungry, ego-maniacs.

^This.

And he has made a positive impact on the first draft of the platform. He wants more, but he has done good work pushing the party to the left so far ...

https://demconvention.com/news/democratic-platform-drafting-meeting-concludes/

 

[phgreek]

Hillary has her issues and she's far from a perfect candidate, but I don't get using her vote for the Iraq War against her. That war was Bush's war, not Hillary's. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush and the others intentionally misled both the public and Congress to gain national support for Bush's private feud with Saddam Hussein. The real reason for Jeb Bush's failure to gain any traction was his last name and the fact that his advisers were the same men who advised his brother. Bush used 9-11 as the pretext for attacking a country and a leader who had nothing to do with 9-11. Even Colin Powell was intentionally given misinformation which he unknowingly fed to the public. What was Hillary Clinton's part in all of this? After being lied to by Bush and his cronies, she voted to support a war to stop Hussein from developing a nuclear weapon, a nuclear weapon that existed only in the minds of Bush's neo-cons.

Had Hillary been told the truth, I doubt she would have voted to support Bush's War and her supporters know this and do not hold it against her. Hard as they might try to distance themselves from the mess in Iraq, the Republicans own that war and the disintegration that followed the collapse of Hussein's iron-fisted reign. Hussein was a ruthless dictator, but he was exactly what that country needed at that time in its history. History is repeating itself now in Syria. Assad is just as ruthless as Hussein had been, but forcefully removing him would create another vacuum for the likes of Isis.

Hmmm...given this logic, HRC makes good decisions on invasions, and Bush destabilized the region by taking out husein.

Can you explain HRC's role in Libya, her rationale for deposing an iron-fisted despot, and its impact on the region please?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/us/politics/hillary-clinton-libya.html?_r=0

It is one thing to watch an "idiot" screw up...but following him? And might I remind you that Mr Hussein threatened the USA, and turned away UN inspectors and ignored 11 UN resolutions...just post 911. Thats pretty provocative. Did Bush and co mislead...they were at least too eager to kick Hussein's ass, and did not question the intel. Mr Gaddafi actually was cooperative as relates to being a threat to the USA, and other western nations. If I had to choose a despot, I'd have left him alone and hit the guy who threatened us...just me though. As well, Mr. Bush left the region in a far better place...can you say SOFA. Anyway, before you folks go all W is an idiot, and bamboozeled Mrs. Clinton...you might look to her own conduct...and honestly evaluate her...SMFH.

 

[phgreek]

Lol. I swear to god people in this country are brain washed when it comes to politics and labels and definitions. The USSR wasn't a true communist country. China has never been a true communist country. There really hasn't been an actual true communist country as put forth by Marx. The terms have been hijacked and used as propaganda by both sides. The USSR saying look how great communism is! We're living proof!" Even though they weren't actually communist. And then by the West by saying look how evil communism is! They're living proof!"

And Bernie Sanders isn't a communist. Or a democratic socialist. Who even made that term up? He's basically a New Dealer. He wants to re-implement many of the policies of FDR and Eisenhower. And the guys track record speaks for itself. He's an honest, decent, moral person. Unlike Hilary or Trump. Who are both lying, self-serving, dishonest, power-hungry, ego-maniacs.

Um...Bernie Did.

 

[TomHaverford]

Um...Bernie Did.

Lol why did he have to put the word democratic in front of the world socialist? so people in this country wouldn't flip their shit and call him a communist. It's crazy lol.

The same people who call him a communist or a socialist are the same ones who'd flip a shit and start rioting in the streets if their medicare or medicaid or social security were cut. It's insane lol. WTF do they think all that stuff is?

 

[EddytoNow]

Hmmm...given this logic, HRC makes good decisions on invasions, and Bush destabilized the region by taking out husein.

Can you explain HRC's role in Libya, her rationale for deposing an iron-fisted despot, and its impact on the region please?

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/us/politics/hillary-clinton-libya.html?_r=0

It is one thing to watch an "idiot" screw up...but following him? And might I remind you that Mr Hussein threatened the USA, and turned away UN inspectors and ignored 11 UN resolutions...just post 911. Thats pretty provocative. Did Bush and co mislead...they were at least too eager to kick Hussein's ass, and did not question the intel. Mr Gaddafi actually was cooperative as relates to being a threat to the USA, and other western nations. If I had to choose a despot, I'd have left him alone and hit the guy who threatened us...just me though. As well, Mr. Bush left the region in a far better place...can you say SOFA. Anyway, before you folks go all W is an idiot, and bamboozeled Mrs. Clinton...you might look to her own conduct...and honestly evaluate her...SMFH.

I'll grant you that Clinton, Obama, and the Democrats own the debacle in Libya. They repeated the mistake that Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld made in Iraq. The hard truth is that the Middle East is not ready for democracy. That region needs strong, authoritarian leaders that can control radical dissidents in their own country. As long as we continue a policy of deposing these dictators, we are enabling the violence that develops to fill the vacuum of state control. And our involvement makes us the best recruiting tool the dissident groups have going for them.

However, Clinton's role in getting us into the Iraq war has been overplayed to discourage support from the Democratic base. Following 9-11, the country wanted to strike back. Bush and his crew fabricated a story to get Congress to support pretty much any action he wanted to take. And he wanted to take out Hussein. If Hillary is guilty of anything related to invading Iraq, it was not asking enough questions to get at the true motivation for the invasion before voting to approve the Bush plan.

 

[phgreek]

I'll grant you that Clinton, Obama, and the Democrats own the debacle in Libya. They repeated the mistake that Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld made in Iraq. The hard truth is that the Middle East is not ready for democracy. That region needs strong, authoritarian leaders that can control radical dissidents in their own country. As long as we continue a policy of deposing these dictators, we are enabling the violence that develops to fill the vacuum of state control. And our involvement makes us the best recruiting tool the dissident groups have going for them.

However, Clinton's role in getting us into the Iraq war has been overplayed to discourage support from the Democratic base. Following 9-11, the country wanted to strike back. Bush and his crew fabricated a story to get Congress to support pretty much any action he wanted to take. And he wanted to take out Hussein. If Hillary is guilty of anything related to invading Iraq, it was not asking enough questions to get at the true motivation for the invasion before voting to approve the Bush plan.

I think it is disingenuous to bash on decisions which were based on bad intel...she had bad intel...but I'm just not so sure, given Mrs. Clinton's track record, had she been given accurate intel on Iraq, she wouldn't have voted for war anyway. So she is overplaying her hand too...me thinks.

 

[FightingIrishLover7]

Lol why did he have to put the word democratic in front of the world socialist? so people in this country wouldn't flip their shit and call him a communist. It's crazy lol.

The same people who call him a communist or a socialist are the same ones who'd flip a shit and start rioting in the streets if their medicare or medicaid or social security were cut. It's insane lol. WTF do they think all that stuff is?

Um, he didn't invent the phrase. And he used "democratic socialist", because that's what he is.

If you're not aware of the differences between socialism and democratic socialism, I'd recommend looking it up.

 

[GDomer09]

hole we sit

hole we sit

Trump shrugs off violent new Mexico protest

This has gotten way out of hand. I'm not a Trump supporter, but no one deserves this much hate. If you told me that clip was in the Middle East somewhere I would believe it.

Edit: At least they filled him with candy.

 

[phgreek]

Um, he didn't invent the phrase. And he used "democratic socialist", because that's what he is.

If you're not aware of the differences between socialism and democratic socialism, I'd recommend looking it up.

I don't think the origin of the term was the question...in context I took the question to be more centered around who first applied it to Bernie. He indeed applied the label to himself.

 

[TomHaverford]

I'll grant you that Clinton, Obama, and the Democrats own the debacle in Libya. They repeated the mistake that Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld made in Iraq. The hard truth is that the Middle East is not ready for democracy. That region needs strong, authoritarian leaders that can control radical dissidents in their own country. As long as we continue a policy of deposing these dictators, we are enabling the violence that develops to fill the vacuum of state control. And our involvement makes us the best recruiting tool the dissident groups have going for them.

Lol wut?

The US has been propping up dictators and subverting democracy in that region for 60+ years. Ever heard of Mosaddegh or the Shah? Why do you think the people over there hate the US so much? US is propping up harsh brutal dictators in Egypt, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia as we speak.

Saddam was a US puppet until he wasn't. They only went after him the first time around bc he was too stupid and egotistical to realize that he was a puppet of US power. The guy had delusions of grandeur.

After the first war he was basically a pariah with nothing but a broken country and a ton of oil. He was a threat to the US in no inconceivable way whatsoever. And he'd never allow any sort of terror groups to come into his country and have a base of operations. He'd never allow such an obvious potential threat to his death grip control on Iraq.

Why Bush Jr. went into Iraq is still the $64,000 question. It wasn't to install democracy. It wasn't because there were weapons of mass destruction. It wasn't because of terrorism. That was all such obvious bullshit. My guess is it had everything to do with Saddam spitting back in the face of the US in Nov of 2000 when he announced that Iraq would be dumping the dollar for the euro in the oil trade starting in 2001. US was importing over 65% of it's oil supply at the time. The US was also Iraq's #1 customer at the time. Bush Jr's puppet masters probably figured they had to protect the dollar and the US control of the oil trade being handled in dollars and dollars only.

9/11 just gave them the pre-text they needed to go ahead and pull off one of the great war crimes in US history by invading Iraq and destroying that country and wasting trillions of American tax-payer dollars. Bush Jr and Cheney should've been drawn, quartered, and hung for what they did and had it televised live on tv around the world. I only wish that hell was real so there would be a special place in it for the both of them to burn.

 

[TomHaverford]

I think it is disingenuous to bash on decisions which were based on bad intel...she had bad intel...but I'm just not so sure, given Mrs. Clinton's track record, had she been given accurate intel on Iraq, she wouldn't have voted for war anyway. So she is overplaying her hand too...me thinks.

she would've 100% voted for it, no matter the intel. she's establishment. she supported bombings in Iraq in the late 90s and really unnecessary and unbelievably harsh sanctions on Iraq which devastated the country and lead to the death and starvation of hundreds of thousands of people, many of them children. she supports drone strikes which indiscriminately kill anybody who just happens to be in the area.

she 10000000000000000000000000000% percent would've voted for it, regardless. she's full of shit when she tries to blame it on the "oh I had bad intel" thing.

 

[phgreek]

Lol wut?

The US has been propping up dictators and subverting democracy in that region for 60+ years. Ever heard of Mosaddegh or the Shah? Why do you think the people over there hate the US so much? US is propping up harsh brutal dictators in Egypt, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia as we speak.

Saddam was a US puppet until he wasn't. They only went after him the first time around bc he was too stupid and egotistical to realize that he was a puppet of US power. The guy had delusions of grandeur.

After the first war he was basically a pariah with nothing but a broken country and a ton of oil. He was a threat to the US in no inconceivable way whatsoever. And he'd never allow any sort of terror groups to come into his country and have a base of operations. He'd never allow such an obvious potential threat to his death grip control on Iraq.

Why Bush Jr. went into Iraq is still the $64,000 question. It wasn't to install democracy. It wasn't because there were weapons of mass destruction. It wasn't because of terrorism. That was all such obvious bullshit. My guess is it had everything to do with Saddam spitting back in the face of the US in Nov of 2000 when he announced that Iraq would be dumping the dollar for the euro in the oil trade starting in 2001. US was importing over 65% of it's oil supply at the time. The US was also Iraq's #1 customer at the time. Bush Jr's puppet masters probably figured they had to protect the dollar and the US control of the oil trade being handled in dollars and dollars only.

9/11 just gave them the pre-text they needed to go ahead and pull off one of the great war crimes in US history by invading Iraq and destroying that country and wasting trillions of American tax-payer dollars. Bush Jr and Cheney should've been drawn, quartered, and hung for what they did and had it televised live on tv around the world. I only wish that hell was real so there would be a special place in it for the both of them to burn.

This is far more plausible than a motivation stemming from a just post 911 world wherein Hussein claimed he had WMD, said he was going to use them, denied UN inspectors, and thumbed his nose at 11 UN resolutions.

 

[kmoose]

Hillary has her issues and she's far from a perfect candidate, but I don't get using her vote for the Iraq War against her. That war was Bush's war, not Hillary's. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bush and the others intentionally misled both the public and Congress to gain national support for Bush's private feud with Saddam Hussein. The real reason for Jeb Bush's failure to gain any traction was his last name and the fact that his advisers were the same men who advised his brother. Bush used 9-11 as the pretext for attacking a country and a leader who had nothing to do with 9-11. Even Colin Powell was intentionally given misinformation which he unknowingly fed to the public. What was Hillary Clinton's part in all of this? After being lied to by Bush and his cronies, she voted to support a war to stop Hussein from developing a nuclear weapon, a nuclear weapon that existed only in the minds of Bush's neo-cons.

Had Hillary been told the truth, I doubt she would have voted to support Bush's War and her supporters know this and do not hold it against her. Hard as they might try to distance themselves from the mess in Iraq, the Republicans own that war and the disintegration that followed the collapse of Hussein's iron-fisted reign. Hussein was a ruthless dictator, but he was exactly what that country needed at that time in its history. History is repeating itself now in Syria. Assad is just as ruthless as Hussein had been, but forcefully removing him would create another vacuum for the likes of Isis.

Child, please!! She was convinced, at the end of the Clinton Administration, that Hussein had reconstituted his nuclear weapons program and was going to develop a nuclear weapon. She even said so, herself:

Did Clinton Just Admit That Her Iraq War Vote Was a Bribe?

 

[Buster Bluth]

Decent and moral? Communism is the single most evil political structure ever devised by man. Mao killed more people than Hitler and Stalin combined. And make no mistake, Bernie is a communist. He says "Democratic socialist" because it sounds more palatable to the American voter, but he's not a "decent and moral" man.

Lolololol

 

[EddytoNow]

Lol wut?

The US has been propping up dictators and subverting democracy in that region for 60+ years. Ever heard of Mosaddegh or the Shah? Why do you think the people over there hate the US so much? US is propping up harsh brutal dictators in Egypt, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia as we speak.

Saddam was a US puppet until he wasn't. They only went after him the first time around bc he was too stupid and egotistical to realize that he was a puppet of US power. The guy had delusions of grandeur.

After the first war he was basically a pariah with nothing but a broken country and a ton of oil. He was a threat to the US in no inconceivable way whatsoever. And he'd never allow any sort of terror groups to come into his country and have a base of operations. He'd never allow such an obvious potential threat to his death grip control on Iraq.

Why Bush Jr. went into Iraq is still the $64,000 question. It wasn't to install democracy. It wasn't because there were weapons of mass destruction. It wasn't because of terrorism. That was all such obvious bullshit. My guess is it had everything to do with Saddam spitting back in the face of the US in Nov of 2000 when he announced that Iraq would be dumping the dollar for the euro in the oil trade starting in 2001. US was importing over 65% of it's oil supply at the time. The US was also Iraq's #1 customer at the time. Bush Jr's puppet masters probably figured they had to protect the dollar and the US control of the oil trade being handled in dollars and dollars only.

9/11 just gave them the pre-text they needed to go ahead and pull off one of the great war crimes in US history by invading Iraq and destroying that country and wasting trillions of American tax-payer dollars. Bush Jr and Cheney should've been drawn, quartered, and hung for what they did and had it televised live on tv around the world. I only wish that hell was real so there would be a special place in it for the both of them to burn.

Propping up some that act as US puppets and deposing others that resist US manipulation. Either way we lose the support of large masses of people. By taking sides in these regional conflicts, we have become the enemy.

 

[TomHaverford]

This is far more plausible than a motivation stemming from a just post 911 world wherein Hussein claimed he had WMD, said he was going to use them, denied UN inspectors, and thumbed his nose at 11 UN resolutions.

not buying that. they had an agenda from the start. before 9/11. they didn't listen to the intelligence. they tried to force intelligence apparatus to manufacture intelligence to fit their agenda.

Lie by Lie: A Timeline of How We Got Into Iraq | Mother Jones

 

[Irish YJ]

Trump's rise is because he was anti-PC, not despite it. Trump has a massive following because "He says what everyone's thinking but are just too afraid to say themselves."

I find it ironic that you point a finger at the Left when blaming extremism within parties, yet your party nominated the most extreme nationalist/populist candidate in history. And if it wasn't for the fact that he was running against Hillary-fucking-Clinton, he would get absolutely destroyed in the general election. Hell, people hate HRC and Trump still might get destroyed.

My point is, he can retain the support for the "say what you think" folks, and actually increase support, without being conveying thoughts in a loud mouth type of way. For example there are a lot of folks anti establishment, and/or anti immigration, and/or fill in the blank,,, but are turned off by his idiot blow hard personality. He could still come across as a "say what you think" tough guy without using some of the stupid tactics he employs.

In terms of pointing the finger. My point is that the the reason an extreme candidate was nominated was in response for the other extremes on the other side. The divide and extremism will only grow until some moderate actions are taken. I don't see that happening in the near future.

And while you think i'm a GOP guy, I have a long track record of voting both sides for moderate candidates. The problem is, there are no moderates to pick from. I'm disgusted with both sides. In short, right now I'd classify myself as fed up, and anti political establishment. Burn it all down.

 

[Irish YJ]

not buying that. they had an agenda from the start. before 9/11. they didn't listen to the intelligence. they tried to force intelligence apparatus to manufacture intelligence to fit their agenda.

Lie by Lie: A Timeline of How We Got Into Iraq | Mother Jones

How confident are you with our intelligence. Didn't work in Benghazi.....

 

[Irish YJ]

Lol wut?

The US has been propping up dictators and subverting democracy in that region for 60+ years. Ever heard of Mosaddegh or the Shah? Why do you think the people over there hate the US so much? US is propping up harsh brutal dictators in Egypt, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia as we speak.

Saddam was a US puppet until he wasn't. They only went after him the first time around bc he was too stupid and egotistical to realize that he was a puppet of US power. The guy had delusions of grandeur.

After the first war he was basically a pariah with nothing but a broken country and a ton of oil. He was a threat to the US in no inconceivable way whatsoever. And he'd never allow any sort of terror groups to come into his country and have a base of operations. He'd never allow such an obvious potential threat to his death grip control on Iraq.

Why Bush Jr. went into Iraq is still the $64,000 question. It wasn't to install democracy. It wasn't because there were weapons of mass destruction. It wasn't because of terrorism. That was all such obvious bullshit. My guess is it had everything to do with Saddam spitting back in the face of the US in Nov of 2000 when he announced that Iraq would be dumping the dollar for the euro in the oil trade starting in 2001. US was importing over 65% of it's oil supply at the time. The US was also Iraq's #1 customer at the time. Bush Jr's puppet masters probably figured they had to protect the dollar and the US control of the oil trade being handled in dollars and dollars only.

9/11 just gave them the pre-text they needed to go ahead and pull off one of the great war crimes in US history by invading Iraq and destroying that country and wasting trillions of American tax-payer dollars. Bush Jr and Cheney should've been drawn, quartered, and hung for what they did and had it televised live on tv around the world. I only wish that hell was real so there would be a special place in it for the both of them to burn.

Wasn't the war resolution passed by both House and Senate, which the Senate contained a D majority?

 

[GoIrish41]

My point is, he can retain the support for the "say what you think" folks, and actually increase support, without being conveying thoughts in a loud mouth type of way. For example there are a lot of folks anti establishment, and/or anti immigration, and/or fill in the blank,,, but are turned off by his idiot blow hard personality. He could still come across as a "say what you think" tough guy without using some of the stupid tactics he employs.

In terms of pointing the finger. My point is that the the reason an extreme candidate was nominated was in response for the other extremes on the other side. The divide and extremism will only grow until some moderate actions are taken. I don't see that happening in the near future.

And while you think i'm a GOP guy, I have a long track record of voting both sides for moderate candidates. The problem is, there are no moderates to pick from. I'm disgusted with both sides. In short, right now I'd classify myself as fed up, and anti political establishment. Burn it all down.

Seems to be working for Great Britain ...

 

[Irish YJ]

Seems to be working for Great Britain ...

The fact that vote happened should be enough to clearly communicate there are problems and views that are being ignored. The fact the vote ended the way it did, speaks louder.

You may snicker about the outcome from your high horse. Keep doing that and ignoring a large portion of the population and that shit will happen here too. Then you will just point and say it's their fault.

 

[EddytoNow]

Child, please!! She was convinced, at the end of the Clinton Administration, that Hussein had reconstituted his nuclear weapons program and was going to develop a nuclear weapon. She even said so, herself:

Did Clinton Just Admit That Her Iraq War Vote Was a Bribe?

Child? I haven't been called that in over 50 years. I must have struck too close to the truth for Mr. Moose. The Clintons are finger in the wind people. The opinion polls said the country was demanding war with Iraq. And why was the country in such a hurry to go to war? We were lied to by Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld. Clinton took the bait along with the rest of the country, including you and I.

 

[GoIrish41]

The fact that vote happened should be enough to clearly communicate there are problems and views that are being ignored. The fact the vote ended the way it did, speaks louder.

You may snicker about the outcome from your high horse. Keep doing that and ignoring a large portion of the population and that shit will happen here too. Then you will just point and say it's their fault.

The buyers remorse that is playing out right now should serve as a cautionary tale for our country, no. The crashing of the stock market and the subsequent credit downgrade demonstrate that impulsively listening to bluster might not be the best way to go. It doesn't help that leaders of the movement almost immediately revealed that there is no real plan to move forward, and maybe just bitching about what is wrong is not enough.

I'm not ignoring people's problems ... that is the nearly exclusive territory of the GOP, whose standard line is "pull yourself up by your bootstraps you lazy, deadbeat takers." I've consistently pointed out the republican dismissal of the poor and middle class since these political threads were created. I have also pointed out how foolish those folks are who support policies that are so clearly contrary to their best interests. I talk frequently about the racial politics that have revealed themselves here and across the pond when the most ignorant among us feel empowered by bigoted politicians who pedal blame instead of coherent policies. I "snicker" because of the speed at which the bullshit of these idiots was exposed was breathtaking. Anyone who sees what happened overseas and wants it to happen here is crazy.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

The buyers remorse that is playing out right now should serve as a cautionary tale for our country, no. The crashing of the stock market and the subsequent credit downgrade demonstrate that impulsively listening to bluster might not be the best way to go. It doesn't help that leaders of the movement almost immediately revealed that there is no real plan to move forward, and maybe just bitching about what is wrong is not enough.

I'm not ignoring people's problems ... that is the nearly exclusive territory of the GOP, whose standard line is "pull yourself up by your bootstraps you lazy, deadbeat takers." I've consistently pointed out the republican dismissal of the poor and middle class since these political threads were created. I have also pointed out how foolish those folks are who support policies that are so clearly contrary to their best interests. I talk frequently about the racial politics that have revealed themselves here and across the pond when the most ignorant among us feel empowered by bigoted politicians who pedal blame instead of coherent policies. I "snicker" because of the speed at which the bullshit of these idiots was exposed was breathtaking. Anyone who sees what happened overseas and wants it to happen here is crazy.

You're talking about the mass immigration of "migrants" right?

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Lolololol

lolololol

 

[Irish YJ]

The buyers remorse that is playing out right now should serve as a cautionary tale for our country, no. The crashing of the stock market and the subsequent credit downgrade demonstrate that impulsively listening to bluster might not be the best way to go. It doesn't help that leaders of the movement almost immediately revealed that there is no real plan to move forward, and maybe just bitching about what is wrong is not enough.

I'm not ignoring people's problems ... that is the nearly exclusive territory of the GOP, whose standard line is "pull yourself up by your bootstraps you lazy, deadbeat takers." I've consistently pointed out the republican dismissal of the poor and middle class since these political threads were created. I have also pointed out how foolish those folks are who support policies that are so clearly contrary to their best interests. I talk frequently about the racial politics that have revealed themselves here and across the pond when the most ignorant among us feel empowered by bigoted politicians who pedal blame instead of coherent policies. I "snicker" because of the speed at which the bullshit of these idiots was exposed was breathtaking. Anyone who sees what happened overseas and wants it to happen here is crazy.

You are ignoring half the population and believe your fight is the only fight. Keep being a part of deaf lefty. You and blind righty will fight and point fingers while finding no middle ground. The sad thing is, the general voter isn't extreme, their candidates are. People like you feel righteous and refuse to recognize the idiots and rhetoric on your own side. Your only defense is offense against the other side and feel validated by Utopian naivety.

If you want to pick immigration as the topic, quit ignoring the issues that it has caused, or could cause, here and other places. If you want to ignore the issues, reflect back to law and the illegal nature of which immigration happens. If you want to ignore law, isn't the fact that half the nation doesn't subscribe to making it easier and would simply like existing laws enforced? If you want to ignore all those voices, you are simply happy to live in a nation divided because you know better and are of superior intellect than everyone else,,,, and hey, that's what matters.

PS... I want nothing like that to happen here. The two extremes are pushing us that way though.

 

[potownhero]

Child? I haven't been called that in over 50 years. I must have struck too close to the truth for Mr. Moose. The Clintons are finger in the wind people. The opinion polls said the country was demanding war with Iraq. And why was the country in such a hurry to go to war? We were lied to by Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld. Clinton took the bait along with the rest of the country, including you and I.

Bill Clinton thought Iraq had WMD's too.

Transcript: President Clinton explains Iraq strike - December 16, 1998

 

[kmoose]

Child? I haven't been called that in over 50 years. I must have struck too close to the truth for Mr. Moose. The Clintons are finger in the wind people. The opinion polls said the country was demanding war with Iraq. And why was the country in such a hurry to go to war? We were lied to by Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld. Clinton took the bait along with the rest of the country, including you and I.

I don't care one way or the other. But stop making excuses for Clinton. She tells enough lies on her own. She wasn't "bamboozled"....... she already believed the same thing that the intelligence agencies were saying, before Bush and Cheney......... and she admits it in that interview that I linked. You act like Bush, Cheney, et al, were hearing from the intelligence services that Hussein was not a threat at all, and they were then telling everyone else that he was. That's not the way it works. If you read in the paper that the 4th of July parade starts at 10:00am, and your neighbor also mentions that it starts at 10am, you are not lying to your wife if you tell her that it starts at 10am, only to have to wait until 11 for it to start.

 

[GoIrish41]

You are ignoring half the population and believe your fight is the only fight. Keep being a part of deaf lefty. You and blind righty will fight and point fingers while finding no middle ground. The sad thing is, the general voter isn't extreme, their candidates are. People like you feel righteous and refuse to recognize the idiots and rhetoric on your own side. Your only defense is offense against the other side and feel validated by Utopian naivety.

If you want to pick immigration as the topic, quit ignoring the issues that it has caused, or could cause, here and other places. If you want to ignore the issues, reflect back to law and the illegal nature of which immigration happens. If you want to ignore law, isn't the fact that half the nation doesn't subscribe to making it easier and would simply like existing laws enforced? If you want to ignore all those voices, you are simply happy to live in a nation divided because you know better and are of superior intellect than everyone else,,,, and hey, that's what matters.

PS... I want nothing like that to happen here. The two extremes are pushing us that way though.

You accuse me of ignoring the opinion of half, yet you prescribe ignoring everyone and "burning it all down," whatever that nonsense means. "People like me" think that is a nutty and unproductive notion. And we think that when people in a debate run out of productive things to say they resort to silly ideas and insults. You keep telling yourself that every liberal is some kind of pie in the sky utopian extremist because they don't agree with you. You be you, dude. Burn that shit down cerci style. See you in November as you are sweeping up the ashes.