2016 Presidential Horse Race

[GoIrish41]

This made me laugh ...

I Am The Best: A Prose Poem By Donald J. Trump

 

[kmoose]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2q6jHad-XG0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Except they are neither silent or a majority, and wanting to do something and actually doing it are two different things. And those are really not at all the issues driving this campaign. The primary driver, IMO, is demonizing immigrants. There literally has not been another coherent policy advocated by Trump throughout the process.

Many of us on the left have long recognized a large part of the Republican Party is driven by race, and we've taken a lot of shit every time we brought it up. But we weren't wrong. And I think a good portion of the Republican party has recognized that. That's part of the reason they are openly talking about keeping the nomination from him.

Not all Trump support comes from racists, but almost equally troubling is the seeming indifference that his other supporters have to all of the racial components playing out in this campaign. "I support Trump because he speaks his mind" and wants to "Make America Great Again" overcomes the fact that what he is speaking his mind about is bigotry and there is at least some indication that when America was considered "great" was the era before civil and voter rights became guaranteed by US law.

Not saying that makes them all a bunch of racists, but they are certainly willfully rubbing elbows with them. And, their desire to step back the legislative timeline to an era in which minorities "knew their place" is a bit troubling. Such a move would also bring with it regressive policy that affected a lot of folks negatively in our not too recent past. Even if that isn't the driving factor for all Trump supporters, it is a pretty overt feature of the campaign that they are going along with. Ignoring that and supporting him anyway is almost as bad as being an outspoken bigot. Given the lack of substance on any other issues whatsoever, what are we on the left supposed to conclude about Trump supporters and from a broader view, the whole of the Republican Party? For me, it is just the same as I have always suspected. Trump has merely exposed this ugly truth.

1) Polls say there is a majority because he's winning

2) He said we have an illegal immigration problem, he wants people to come here legally, and he wants to build a wall. He also said we should pause immigration from certain countries until we figure out what the hell we're doing and how we're screening people. I'm not voting for Trump but this isn't "demonizing immigrants" or "putting them back in their place." It's carrying out our immigration laws we have on the books, and no country is obliged to take immigrants from anywhere. None.

It could be, however, a problem to Democrats promising free everything to everyone to create a permanent majority of voters. The idea that Bernie or Hillary or any of them give a damn about illegal immigrants and their well being is a joke. They want voters, legal or not.

Hillary Clinton Wants To Use Obamacare For Illegal Immigrants [VIDEO] | The Daily Caller

 

[GoIrish41]

1) Polls say there is a majority because he's winning

2) He said we have an illegal immigration problem, he wants people to come here legally, and he wants to build a wall. He also said we should pause immigration from certain countries until we figure out what the hell we're doing and how we're screening people. I'm not voting for Trump but this isn't "demonizing immigrants" or "putting them back in their place." It's carrying out our immigration laws we have on the books, and no country is obliged to take immigrants from anywhere. None.

It could be, however, a problem to Democrats promising free everything to everyone to create a permanent majority of voters. The idea that Bernie or Hillary or any of them give a damn about illegal immigrants and their well being is a joke. They want voters, legal or not.

Hillary Clinton Wants To Use Obamacare For Illegal Immigrants [VIDEO] | The Daily Caller

This just in ... non citizens cannot vote.

 

[kmoose]

This just in ... non citizens cannot vote.

This just in........... they can if there are no requirements to prove their identity!

 

[GoIrish41]

This just in........... they can if there are no requirements to prove their identity!

No. They still have to be registered to vote at which point they have to prove they are citizens. In my state (and Leppy's), registration is handled by the DMV. In order to obtain your original license, one must present a SSN or a birth certificate -- both demonstrating citizenship. Showing up at a polling place with an ID shows that you are who you say you are. It does not substitute for registering. You guys are blurring your own talking points.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

No. They still have to be registered to vote at which point they have to prove they are citizens. In my state (and Leppy's), registration is handled by the DMV. In order to obtain your original license, one must present a SSN or a birth certificate -- both demonstrating citizenship. Showing up at a polling place with an ID shows that you are who you say you are. It does not substitute for registering. You guys are blurring your own talking points.

First, we're talking about one state out of 50. Tell me how many drivers licenses California issued last year to illegal immigrants.

Second, are you forgetting healthcare and education? Both free, and Hillary wants to expand the healthcare part.

 

[kmoose]

No. They still have to be registered to vote at which point they have to prove they are citizens. In my state (and Leppy's), registration is handled by the DMV. In order to obtain your original license, one must present a SSN or a birth certificate -- both demonstrating citizenship. Showing up at a polling place with an ID shows that you are who you say you are. It does not substitute for registering. You guys are blurring your own talking points.

They don't have to be registered to vote; just someone does. It wouldn't take much effort to substitute a bunch of illegal immigrants for registered voters, if you know those registered voters are not going to show up.

 

[GoIrish41]

First, we're talking about one state out of 50. Tell me how many drivers licenses California issued last year to illegal immigrants.

Second, are you forgetting healthcare and education? Both free, and Hillary wants to expand the healthcare part.

Every state has its own rules on voter registration. I'm going to go out on a limb and say none of them simply take the applicant's word for citizenship.

Why would Hillary bother doing that when its so easy to just tell everyone you are a citizen? The argument you are making is silly.

 

[GoIrish41]

They don't have to be registered to vote; just someone does. It wouldn't take much effort to substitute a bunch of illegal immigrants for registered voters, if you know those registered voters are not going to show up.

SMH. Are you suggesting this is happening or are you formulating your own personal conspiracy theory? So I could give up my right to vote if I was willing to also give up my right to drive and have a universally acceptable form of ID. And I can find like a half million other people in my state to do the same, we might be able to swing this election for the Dems. Is that how it would work? Now, let's just do that in the other 49 states and win this election landslide style.

Or, we could offer, as a party, policies that don't alienate people in the first place and win elections legitimately. That seems easier, don't you think?

 

[kmoose]

SMH. Are you suggesting this is happening or are you formulating your own personal conspiracy theory? So I could give up my right to vote if I was willing to also give up my right to drive and have a universally acceptable form of ID. And I can find like a half million other people in my state to do the same, we might be able to swing this election for the Dems. Is that how it would work? Now, let's just do that in the other 49 states and win this election landslide style.

Or, we could offer, as a party, policies that don't alienate people in the first place and win elections legitimately. That seems easier, don't you think.

If I don't have to prove that I am who I say I am, I can simply walk in (knowing that Sam Madison is a registered voter who is not going to be voting) and say, "Hi! I'm Sam Madison. I'm here to vote.", and I get to cast a ballot. It's really not all that difficult. Especially with the historical inaccuracy associated with Registered Voter lists....

If someone with enough resources to become the Republican or Democratic nominee for President committed to it; it really wouldn't be all that difficult for them to manufacture thousands(or more) of votes.

 

[GoIrish41]

If I don't have to prove that I am who I say I am, I can simply walk in (knowing that Sam Madison is a registered voter who is not going to be voting) and say, "Hi! I'm Sam Madison. I'm here to vote.", and I get to cast a ballot. It's really not all that difficult. Especially with the historical inaccuracy associated with Registered Voter lists....

If someone with enough resources to become the Republican or Democratic nominee for President committed to it; it really wouldn't be all that difficult for them to manufacture thousands(or more) of votes.

Well again, are you suggesting that this is happening or it is in the realm of possibility? Even if you are right, it seems a little risky if you are running for president to have thousands of people x2 keep your secret and not show up on Fox News with a gotcha interview that ruins the politician and the party. Seems easier to welcome them into the party by demonstrating through policy and message that you are the party for them. But you should pitch that theory to Oliver Stone. He hasn't made a movie for a while.

 

[Buster Bluth]

They don't have to be registered to vote; just someone does. It wouldn't take much effort to substitute a bunch of illegal immigrants for registered voters, if you know those registered voters are not going to show up.

If I don't have to prove that I am who I say I am, I can simply walk in (knowing that Sam Madison is a registered voter who is not going to be voting) and say, "Hi! I'm Sam Madison. I'm here to vote.", and I get to cast a ballot. It's really not all that difficult. Especially with the historical inaccuracy associated with Registered Voter lists....

If someone with enough resources to become the Republican or Democratic nominee for President committed to it; it really wouldn't be all that difficult for them to manufacture thousands(or more) of votes.

I love how "it's just so easy to do" is never paired with "is also practically nonexistent." The penalties for voter fraud are extreme, and rightfully so. It's a practically nonexistent issue. You would need to be insane to try such a stunt. I served on a grand jury when a guy accidentally commit voter fraud and he was indicted for a felony anyway.

There is a basically 0% chance a political party tries to orchestrate widespread voter fraud when elections come down to outreach, and thus money. If I remember correctly it was about $10/vote last election. Risking five years in prison for one vote, worth $10, is so profoundly stupid I don't even know what else to say.

 

[Buster Bluth]

First, we're talking about one state out of 50. Tell me how many drivers licenses California issued last year to illegal immigrants.

Second, are you forgetting healthcare and education? Both free, and Hillary wants to expand the healthcare part.

If my thinking cap is on correctly, education is paid by property taxes (at least here in Ohio), which are are paid by owners of property who are often charging rent to the illegal families who cannot own property. In a sense they are paying education taxes merely by being a part of the economy.

Illegal immigrants often get hit with the same medicare taxes on their pay check that you and I do, despite not withdrawing it at the same rate due to their legal status. Some estimates say they've contributed $35 billion more into the system as a result.

Do you really want to keep pretending that illegal immigrants, collectively totaling roughly the population of Ohio, don't pay taxes and contribute to our economy? And if we've (hopefully) come to the conclusion that rounding them up and shipping them out of the country is both impractical and inhumane...why don't we go ahead and give them a sensible path to citizenship so they pay more taxes? I have a hunch: the same corporations who politicians promise to go after want 11 million employees to remain right where they are, almost no bargaining power and low wages.

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

If my thinking cap is on correctly, education is paid by property taxes (at least here in Ohio), which are are paid by owners of property who are often charging rent to the illegal families who cannot own property. In a sense they are paying education taxes merely by being a part of the economy.

Illegal immigrants often get hit with the same medicare taxes on their pay check that you and I do, despite not withdrawing it at the same rate due to their legal status. Some estimates say they've contributed $35 billion more into the system as a result.

Do you really want to keep pretending that illegal immigrants, collectively totaling roughly the population of Ohio, don't pay taxes and contribute to our economy? And if we've (hopefully) come to the conclusion that rounding them up and shipping them out of the country is both impractical and inhumane...why don't we go ahead and give them a sensible path to citizenship so they pay more taxes? I have a hunch: the same corporations who politicians promise to go after want 11 million employees to remain right where they are, almost no bargaining power and low wages.

Same here in PA. Majority of K-12 education funding is based on property taxes. If family A (citizens) has 2 kids going to public school and family B (illegal) has 2 kids going to school, family B isn't paying for the kids' education just by being here.

Don't worry about the medicare taxes. Grandma Hillary has em covered.

 

[phgreek]

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2q6jHad-XG0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Pretty much how I pictured it...

except Donald has inflamed shit and encouraged people to engage the protesters. Maybe not in AZ...but certainly has occurred. I think he could tone that down some. I don't mind the people there claiming their right to hear what he says, but Trump can't be telling his supporters to beat protesters.

Also, lets not pretend the professional protester types funded by George Soreass aren't showing up with intent to provoke. They know how the press works...they know if they can entice some Trump supporter to beat their ass...no one will have filmed the provocation, and everyone will generalize their as beating to all Trump supporters and all Rallys.

 

[BGIF]

GUAM GOP

GUAM GOP

N.B. THESE ARE 3/12/16 NUMBERS. Mea culpa.


status: voting complete est. % in: 100%

candidate	pledged delegates
cruz   	         1
kasich           0
rubio	         0
trump	         0

 

[GoIrish41]

status: voting complete est. % in: 100%

candidate	pledged delegates
cruz   	         1
kasich           0
rubio	         0
trump	         0

Winner take all!

 

[Buster Bluth]

Same here in PA. Majority of K-12 education funding is based on property taxes. If family A (citizens) has 2 kids going to public school and family B (illegal) has 2 kids going to school, family B isn't paying for the kids' education just by being here.

Don't worry about the medicare taxes. Grandma Hillary has em covered.

It's like you didn't even read what I wrote.

Do you think the properties illegals rent don't get taxed to pay for schools? Does the government come by and say "ahh I see you have illegal immigrant family here, you can keep those tax dollars the school will educate them regardless." I never said they paid as much in taxes, or even enough to cover the costs. But their presence does contribute tax dollars towards the system simply by being renters and thus increasing demand for taxable properties.

I was just in a meeting last Monday in which it was brought up that Ohio says it costs $8500 to educate a child but only gives about $6500, and each house a town adds means the citizens have to raise taxes to cover those costs. Point being, when the tax payers are contributing to a flawed system pointing fingers at a small minority of people is almost a waste of time.

I also think your scenario is a little flawed. A two-for-two situation distorts reality in my opinion. 6.9% of schoolchildren have illegal immigrant parents. So it's more of a 93-to-7 situation.

 

[Irish YJ]

I'd love a 6.9% break in my taxes, whatever that that tax may be....

Sarcastic yes, but it's estimated that illegals cost anywhere between 75 and 100 billion a year to the US. AZ treasurer alone estimates 1.5-2.5 billion per year for the state. Doesn't matter to me if its education, medical, etc.. I don't feel like it's my civic responsibility to support folks that are not Americans, and don't contribute to the tax pool.

 

[pkt77242]

I'd love a 6.9% break in my taxes, whatever that that tax may be....

Sarcastic yes, but it's estimated that illegals cost anywhere between 75 and 100 billion a year to the US. AZ treasurer alone estimates 1.5-2.5 billion per year for the state. Doesn't matter to me if its education, medical, etc.. I don't feel like it's my civic responsibility to support folks that are not Americans, and don't contribute to the tax pool.

I disagree with this somewhat:

1. They do pay sales tax.

2. Most don't make enough money to pay income taxes

3. When it comes to renting and not paying property taxes, renters pay it in a round about way because they pay rent and the owner of the property pays the taxes (presumably from the rent they receive), thus the illegal immigrant is paying taxes for the school.

 

[Buster Bluth]

I'd love a 6.9% break in my taxes, whatever that that tax may be....

Sarcastic yes, but it's estimated that illegals cost anywhere between 75 and 100 billion a year to the US. AZ treasurer alone estimates 1.5-2.5 billion per year for the state. Doesn't matter to me if its education, medical, etc..

Please out to me where I said illegal immigrant doesn't present burdens to numerous public systems, or where I said they pay enough in taxes to cover their expenses. I was simply correcting a flatly untrue statement that illegal immigrants do not pay taxes for education or medical care.

I don't feel like it's my civic responsibility to support folks that are not Americans, and don't contribute to the tax pool.

Hey chief, most of those 6.9% are Americans. The percentage of students who are illegal, from the same study, is 1.4%.

 

[BGIF]

Yes, America, it's war. Here's how we can stop losing and start winning | Fox News

K.T. McFarland
By K.T. McFarland Published March 22, 2016

The January 2015 Charlie Hebdo attacks were a wakeup call to take radical Islam seriously. The November Paris attacks put that call on a loudspeaker. The December San Bernardino attacks showed it could happen here, too. The Brussels attacks are proof that radical Islam has spread throughout the European continent. There are likely to be more terrorist attacks in the months ahead. How long are we going to ignore the obvious?

Global Islamist jihad is at war with all of Western Civilization. President Obama and other western leaders may not see it as a war, but the other sides does. Left largely unchecked over last seven years, radical Islam has exploded worldwide. According to the head of EUROPOL, 5,000 Europeans have travelled to Syria & Iraq to train and fight with ISIS and since returned to Europe. They are sleeper agents setting up sleeper cells.

A guerilla army has invaded Europe. We have seen that there are terrorist cells in the United States. Radical Islamists now savage Africa, the Levant, the Middle East, the Saudi Peninsula, and all the way to Pakistan and South Asia.

Not all the world’s 1.6 billion Muslims are extremists or terrorists, not by a long shot. But even if just ten percent of one percent are radicalized, that’s still a staggering one million six hundred thousand people bent on destroying Western Civilization and the values we hold dear. The fascists wanted to control the world, so did the communists, but the Islamists want to brutally kill a significant percentage of the world – and that is anyone standing in the way of their end-times Caliphate.

We have been one step behind this enemy for years. We’re still tongue-tied by political correctness, while they’re setting off bombs at train stations, airports and community centers.

We are losing this war, and our losses grow greater every day, while terrorists recruit off the images of the West’s most innocent and vulnerable fleeing in horror. The hour is already late to defeat this growing scourge. But if we are to defeat radical Islam will only be with a multifaceted, comprehensive strategy that calls on all the aspects of the national power of ourselves and our allies – like we summoned to defeat the Nazis in WWII or the Communists in the Cold War.


Our strategy needs:

- An economic component that bankrupts radical jihad by cutting off their oil revenues - attacking their oil fields, refineries and tankers -- while we also develop our own resources to be energy independent of Arab oil.

- A banking component that uses the US primacy in international banking and finance to freeze out any country or company that does business with radical Islamists from ISIS to Boko Haram.

- An alliance component that draws together moderate Muslims into an alliance against radical Islam. If they’re reluctant to join an anti-Islamist alliance, we should let them know they shouldn’t come running to us if things don’t work out. We should call them out if they have some in their inner circles that play both sides.

And we may have to hold our noses and partner with countries we do not always approve of, as we did during World War II.

- An anti-hostage component – we will not negotiate, exchange prisoners with nor pay ransom to terrorists. If you take our people hostage, we will turn the tables on you and put a very large bounty on your heads. We promise to hunt down kill anyone who kills our citizens, no matter now long it takes.

- A communications component which champions western values, like we had during WWII and the Cold War. Violent radical Jihad and western civilization are NOT morally equivalent. No apology tour, no comparing the Crusades to ISIS. Be proud of America or be quiet.

- An Internet component that blocks their online recruiting and training efforts and uses metadata to track and destroy terrorist leaders.

- A religious and ideological component which applauds moderate Muslim leaders – like Egyptian President Sisi and the Grand Imam of Al Ahzar Mosque- who speak out against radical Islam.

- And finally, a military component which does not, repeat does not, require thousands of American combat forces, but rather gives our allies every inducement and all the arm twisting necessary so they put their own boots on the ground. And which supplies them with whatever they need to do the job.

At this point the war against radical Islam is not a hot war, and it’s not a cold war, but it will be a long war. We’ve seen two presidents from different political parties with different approaches grapple with radical Islam and both fail. President George W. Bush tried to fight them over there so we don’t have to fight them here at home. It may have prevented another catastrophic attack on the U.S. homeland, but it didn’t succeed in stopping the growth of radical Islam. President Obama’s leading from behind strategy hasn’t worked either.

But the United States remains the one essential nation. There is only one country that can pull this effort together. The current president refuses the task. He’d rather watch baseball games with Castro and make vacuous promises to hunt down the perpetrators of ‘senseless violence’. He doesn’t see this as a global war, but as unconnected, unfortunate random acts of violence.

Other countries can chose leaders who will fight the good fight, but none of them are capable leading all of Western civilization in this effort. The United States is the world’s most powerful nation economically, militarily, politically, diplomatically and culturally. That is why this election is so crucial. Without American leadership the witches brew of radical Islamist movements will expand and ultimately succeed in acquiring weapons of mass destruction and usher in its version of paradise – the destruction of the apostates and unbelievers and triumph of the Caliphate.

The greatest generation defeated fascism and communism with the likes of Churchill, FDR, Reagan, Thatcher, and Pope John Paul II. They were giants. So far most of our leaders in this war against radical Islam have been pygmies.

It is now up to the American people to seek out and choose the giants of this generation. The good news is more of us are engaged in this year’s election than any in recent times. The bad news is we seem so hopelessly and acrimoniously divided. But it was Winston Churchill who one said, “You can always count on Americans to do the right thing – after they’re tried everything else.”

So my fellow citizens, take your responsibilities to heart. Examine the candidates, make the right choices. This time we’re choosing more than a president to govern for four years, we’re chosing a president who will lead not just America but all of civilization to fight, and win, the war against the most virulent, lethal, apocalyptic death cult in history.

 

[woolybug25]

It's like you didn't even read what I wrote.

Do you think the properties illegals rent don't get taxed to pay for schools? Does the government come by and say "ahh I see you have illegal immigrant family here, you can keep those tax dollars the school will educate them regardless." I never said they paid as much in taxes, or even enough to cover the costs. But their presence does contribute tax dollars towards the system simply by being renters and thus increasing demand for taxable properties.

I was just in a meeting last Monday in which it was brought up that Ohio says it costs $8500 to educate a child but only gives about $6500, and each house a town adds means the citizens have to raise taxes to cover those costs. Point being, when the tax payers are contributing to a flawed system pointing fingers at a small minority of people is almost a waste of time.

I also think your scenario is a little flawed. A two-for-two situation distorts reality in my opinion. 6.9% of schoolchildren have illegal immigrant parents. So it's more of a 93-to-7 situation.

To add to this... Does that number represent a "net" number? As in the amount of sales tax, low wage labor, etc that they add to economy? I find it hard to believe that it does.

Furthermore, what do you do? Go home by home and rip them out of their homes? How well do you think that would work out? Wouldn't it be better to stop inflow and find an effective way to tax their wages and discourage employers from hiring new ones?

It seems to me that we are arguing an mid 1990's issue with the same arguments. Like nothing has changed and there are no new ideas.

 

[BGIF]

Idaho caucus seeing long lines at polling stites. The young faces look like a look of Bernie types and sound like Bernie peeps.

 

[Irish YJ]

Please out to me where I said illegal immigrant doesn't present burdens to numerous public systems, or where I said they pay enough in taxes to cover their expenses. I was simply correcting a flatly untrue statement that illegal immigrants do not pay taxes for education or medical care.



Hey chief, most of those 6.9% are Americans. The percentage of students who are illegal, from the same study, is 1.4%.

Hey squaw they are Americans "legally" because their parents committed an illegal act, which IMO shouldn't increase tax burden on kids parents born here legally. If their parents immigrated the correct/legal way, I'd have no problem. Pretty obvious what side of the coin you play on. If not, tell me you are for stiffer immigration laws, deportation of illegals, or building a wall?

 

[woolybug25]

Hey squaw they are Americans "legally" because their parents committed an illegal act, which IMO shouldn't increase tax burden on kids parents born here legally. If their parents immigrated the correct/legal way, I'd have no problem. Pretty obvious what side of the coin you play on. If not, tell me you are for stiffer immigration laws, deportation of illegals, or building a wall?

Whether a kids parents are illegal or not, a new child born within our borders is legal. They are legally born here.

 

[BGIF]

Long lines in Arizona as well but didn't see any people in line identifying their choice.

 

[Irish YJ]

Idaho caucus seeing long lines at polling stites. The young faces look like a look of Bernie types and sound like Bernie peeps.

 

[Irish YJ]

Whether a kids parents are illegal or not, a new child born within our borders is legal. They are legally born here.

Yes, I did say legally....