'16 TN WR Nate Johnson (Michigan Signee)

[Luckylucci]

As I remember, nobody we are talking about had better than a 4.3 shuttle. I know there was nothing below 4.2. CJ Saunders had what, a 3.78?

I believe Johnson posted a shuttle of 4.06 at his opening regional. He does have elite quickness and agility. Kids a good ball player.

 

[johnnycando]

As a football player, I certainly don't view this kid as a throw in. He's plenty good enough to compete over 4-5 years for PT at ND.

You're a football player?

Or viewing the kid as a football player?

 

[johnnycando]

I believe Johnson posted a shuttle of 4.06 at his opening regional. He does have elite quickness and agility. Kids a good ball player.

He's also 5'8".

Robby Toma / Nico height without the upside. That being the extra "draw" of other recruits, if you will.

 

[Luckylucci]

You're a football player?

Or viewing the kid as a football player?

Obviously, viewing him as a football player as it's been said there are other circumstances that might be the reason for ND no longer pursuing him.

 

[johnnycando]

Obviously, viewing him as a football player as it's been said there are other circumstances that might be the reason for ND no longer pursuing him.

Yes.

"Good fit not a great fit."

 

[Bogtrotter07]

So you rather have an open scholarship than this kid, got it. I'll definitely take the other side of that. Johnson is a good ball player. With what I would call elite quickness. Almost 4 flat shuttle is pretty darn good. Runs good routes and shows good ball skills. I too agree with some that he could play DB if willing. Definitely worthy of a roster spot on ND's team. With that said, it didn't work out for other reasons but let's not act like we are above this kid, that's funny.

I don't think it is about being above the kid at all.

I think it is all about resources. What a message to the five stars; the staff is all in!

And I must have been the only one that heard Kelly make it clear, he wasn't going to make the mistakes with some of the players that flamed out, again, if he could help it.

Not only are there red flags on transcripts to attend to, but a players presentation, actions, and other things factor in. A recruit may be a take meeting all requirements, having done nothing to give him a record, but he still may not be a take for the coaches.

For example : I bet (and this has nothing to do with anyone on the recruiting board now) if they find a kid likes his Mary Jane, he has to address that honestly with the coaches, or is out. That might not even have been an issue considered three years ago.

Also, the days of kids not taking MMPI's and equivalents are out. If you don't think kids are graded on coachability and ability to thrive as part of a team, you are mistaken. Especially since a few quarterback misses in the recent past. Notice what kind of team players the four that will be on scholarship this fall are? Big difference. Big positive. Probably why Kelly said he wouldn't trade his for any other in the game.

 

[Luckylucci]

He's also 5'8".

Robby Toma / Nico height without the upside. That being the extra "draw" of other recruits, if you will.

What? Johnson is listed at 5'10-11 and is a substantially better athlete than both those guys. Sorry but those comparisons are not even remotely close.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

I believe Johnson posted a shuttle of 4.06 at his opening regional. He does have elite quickness and agility. Kids a good ball player.

Sorry I missed that one. What were his others? And that still is a third of a second slower that CJ, who had a much tighter set of times.

 

[GoIrish41]

I don't think it is about being above the kid at all.

I think it is all about resources. What a message to the five stars; the staff is all in!

And I must have been the only one that heard Kelly make it clear, he wasn't going to make the mistakes with some of the players that flamed out, again, if he could help it.

Not only are there red flags on transcripts to attend to, but a players presentation, actions, and other things factor in. A recruit may be a take meeting all requirements, having done nothing to give him a record, but he still may not be a take for the coaches.

For example : I bet (and this has nothing to do with anyone on the recruiting board now) if they find a kid likes his Mary Jane, he has to address that honestly with the coaches, or is out. That might not even have been an issue considered three years ago.

Also, the days of kids not taking MMP's and equivalents are out. If you don't think kids are graded on coachability and ability to thrive as part of a team, you are mistaken. Especially since a few quarterback misses in the recent past. Notice what kind of team players the four that will be on scholarship this fall are? Big difference. Big positive. Probably why Kelly said he wouldn't trade his for any other in the game.

Outstanding post!

 

[ab2cmiller]

If legit question... The answer is no, he never played DB ever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Russell did play safety in high school

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Give me some numbers of what elite speed is for a high school recruit?

Is CJ Sanders 4.32 elite? It was the fastest 40 Sparq tested.

CJ's elite speed come from his extra gear, about 20 yard out he explodes; and he doesn't seem to loose any speed when he cuts, none at all.

At a 4.32 Opening time, that is probably close to what gets reported in the low 4.2's elsewhere. And that isn't the best feature of his running. It will get better with a good weight and speed program. So now we have a good indicator for Longo and CJ!

 

[Luckylucci]

Sorry I missed that one. What were his others? And that still is a third of a second slower that CJ, who had a much tighter set of times.

What does this have to do with CJ? CJ is irrelevant. So, because we have CJ, we stop recruiting all players that are like him but not as good? Not sure that strategy would go over well in the long run. I guess we shouldn't have recruited Coney because he wasn't as good as Jaylon. It's about building depth amongst your roster and Johnson can do that.

 

[johnnycando]

Johnson will not do that.

 

[Luckylucci]

I don't think it is about being above the kid at all.

I think it is all about resources. What a message to the five stars; the staff is all in!

And I must have been the only one that heard Kelly make it clear, he wasn't going to make the mistakes with some of the players that flamed out, again, if he could help it.

Not only are there red flags on transcripts to attend to, but a players presentation, actions, and other things factor in. A recruit may be a take meeting all requirements, having done nothing to give him a record, but he still may not be a take for the coaches.

For example : I bet (and this has nothing to do with anyone on the recruiting board now) if they find a kid likes his Mary Jane, he has to address that honestly with the coaches, or is out. That might not even have been an issue considered three years ago.

Also, the days of kids not taking MMP's and equivalents are out. If you don't think kids are graded on coachability and ability to thrive as part of a team, you are mistaken. Especially since a few quarterback misses in the recent past. Notice what kind of team players the four that will be on scholarship this fall are? Big difference. Big positive. Probably why Kelly said he wouldn't trade his for any other in the game.

So what happens when the five stars don't come, we're left holding the bag with open scholarships. Hey if we close out with Robertson, Kelly, and Johnson then i would agree this is a moot point. However, I doubt that happens, this the relevancy of this player or players like him.

 

[johnnycando]

He's not coming here. Lol.

I mean all signs say no.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Did KeiVare Russell play DB in high school? Legit question. I know he came out as a RB but honestly don't know if he played DB.

I think he had experience. That kind of isn't the point. Timeline is.

KeiVarae came in when running back was full up. They had just switched McDaniel to corner if you remember.

Looked like Brown would have to play corner. The elephant in the room with that conversation was that he wasn't up to it.

So they had time to try him, even though the whole time they brought him in with the intent to play the other side of the ball.

Turned out he responded well.

And remember he never played consistently well after Bob Diaco's bend but don't break defense with soft two-deep zone coverage departed. In fact, he got burned regularly, if not often, with help over the top as a freshman, on the '12 team if you remember.

We will see, the logical conclusion is draft day, and beyond.

 

[Luckylucci]

He's not coming here. Lol.

I mean all signs say no.

Nobody has said he was was.

 

[Luckylucci]

Johnson will not do that.

Will not do what, compete?

 

[Bogtrotter07]

What does this have to do with CJ? CJ is irrelevant. So, because we have CJ, we stop recruiting all players that are like him but not as good? Not sure that strategy would go over well in the long run. I guess we shouldn't have recruited Coney because he wasn't as good as Jaylon. It's about building depth amongst your roster and Johnson can do that.

Just using CJ, following someone else's lead, as a comparison. I think that would be because their height and weight is similar. CJ is thicker though.

 

[johnnycando]

Will not do what, compete?

Add depth and anything to this class.

He's not coming to Notre Dame.

 

[Luckylucci]

I think he had experience. That kind of isn't the point. Timeline is.

KeiVarae came in when running back was full up. They had just switched McDaniel to corner if you remember.

Looked like Brown would have to play corner. The elephant in the room with that conversation was that he wasn't up to it.

So they had time to try him, even though the whole time they brought him in with the intent to play the other side of the ball.

Turned out he responded well.

And remember he never played consistently well after Bob Diaco's bend but don't break defense with soft two-deep zone coverage departed. In fact, he got burned regularly, if not often, with help over the top as a freshman, on the '12 team if you remember.

We will see, the logical conclusion is draft day, and beyond.

That's on BVG for not putting his guys in a spot to be successful. Having KVR in off man coverage is pointless. It takes away his best quality which is his physicality.

 

[drake29]

What? Johnson is listed at 5'10-11 and is a substantially better athlete than both those guys. Sorry but those comparisons are not even remotely close.

I think everyone knows at this point that listed height is always 1-2 inches off. Also, I agree he's a better athlete, but he's not better or even on par athletically with other players on the ND roster.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Add depth and anything to this class.

He's not coming to Notre Dame.

Clear to me!

There are quite a few guys, some of whom contributed over their time here; we could list them if we want.

They were important to the program, before it started to ascend. One could argue they helped build it. I wouldn't disagree.

But Kelly and company are at a different phase. I will also say these kids wouldn't be considered today. The program is beyond needing placeholders. That killed the Irish in '14, frankly; and still caused trouble at the end of last season. It wasn't the injuries themselves at the end, it was running out of players to replace them at a competent level.

This step for Kelly, and it is where most fail, is to sell back up positions to competent players. Or players that they can build to competent levels. (Note : "Competent levels" demand consistent performance.)

 

[Luckylucci]

Haha, you guys crack me up. A different phase. As in now we don't take kids like this because we all know where the next Will Fuller is coming from.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

That's on BVG for not putting his guys in a spot to be successful. Having KVR in off man coverage is pointless. It takes away his best quality which is his physicality.

Are you kidding? What defensive backfields did we face this year that didn't out-perform ours? UMASS? WF? GT?

Remember, our wide receiver corps was way better than any of the competition except maybe Clemson and USC! So two draws, like Temple and BC are definite victories for their defensive backfields.

Further proof is with the flat out success of Autry Denson this year, no one, and I mean no one is criticizing or judging Todd Lyght!

Why?

 

[johnnycando]

Haha, you guys crack me up. A different phase. As in now we don't take kids like this because we all know where the next Will Fuller is coming from.

I mean im having Kiel vs Mauk flashbacks here but I doubt you were around for those.

 

[johnnycando]

ND has officially dropped him

Just to know what kind of support staff he has his dad won't contact anyone from rivals or take their calls because Nate wasn't invited to the rivals 5 star challenge.

I wanted to bring this out front again.

 

[drake29]

Haha, you guys crack me up. A different phase. As in now we don't take kids like this because we all know where the next Will Fuller is coming from.

There's a difference in taking placeholders vs. Lower rates kids who have very high potential/upside.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

And, the next level is as follows :

(And this is all about ND and their interest in any player, now.)

One of the biggest developments in the program at ND has to be the Preferred Walk-on Program. When did it ever have a name before the second or third year Kelly was here.

Last fall we saw it listed as a contributing factor for preparation against playing two option teams, and for the first year ever, we dominated our option competition.

I think everybody needs to check out the caliber of some of the kids we are getting.

Now I know this is tricky conversation, but there are quite a few intelligent kids in the four and five hundred range for ratings, that may or may not have a late burst of development that makes them a potential college starter. Some of these kids are destine to play at mid-majors or less, schools that may not be very highly academically regarded.

At ND most scholarships are given out on a need basis. The problem is getting into the university, in the first place. I have a niece whose husband is a practicing orthopedic surgeon, a partner in one of the largest Columbus, Ohio practices. He had a 4.0, blew the SAT's out and still did not gain admission to ND. He went to Case instead.

So take a kid with some smarts and offer him a PWO at ND, when most of his tuition is paid from grants, or scholarship based on needs, who cares?

I believe this program is now set to feed the attrition the program faces. So the idea we need to solve all of our problems on the front end is lessened. And I understand how front end guys see loading up as the only solution.

All I am saying is there are ways to fix the process throughout, and the PWO program is just one. Fifth year transfers is another. Hanging on to fifth years, selectively, is a third. There are more.

So in conclusion, no one is wrong in their approach, or beliefs, no player need be bad to be a no-take and I think the process is much more comprehensive and broad based that our vision only enables a partial view.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

Exactly what I was talking about!

Former walk-on RB Josh Anderson lives Notre Dame dream - Notre Dame Insider: Notre Dame Football

PS. I cant find Josh's thread! Or doesn't he have one?