IF we go to a 3-4

[ojo_223]

Okay, if we are switching to a 3-4 (at least some of the time) and that played a part in Trattou's decision, then I have to ask: Who are the LBs going to be? The D-Line?

Does Laws switch to DE or at nose tackle? Ian Williams?

Does Zibby move to LB? Travis Thomas stay there?

I think M. Smith now becomes priority #1 with the little time left in recruiting. Toryan (sp?) Smith probably starts anyway, but definately now.

Thoughts, gentlemen?

 

[IrishRamMan10]

dunno maybe put kerry neal, and john ryan on the edge... while rotataing laws, nuss, williams, in the middle... As for LBs maybe Mo Rich, Zibby ( possible) and TT will try for the two OLB spots. I think Brock, Crum, and Toryan will play for the ILB positions.

 

[Fighting_Irish9]

I'm actually pretty excited about the 3-4...now Usually I'm not a big fan of the 3-4 but with the personel and the issues we have, I think this could be a very good thing..

Brockington and T. Smith in the middle with Crum and Vernaglia on the outside..that will give us a lot of speed and the ability to blitz from all angles...Thomas could be in the Mix (though Really think he will be the #1 RB so I doubt it), maybe Zbikowski, but Weis has come out and said, "HE IS NOT A LB, and will be a SS in the pro's"...could change, I'd love to see it change, but I'm not holding my breathe it will change

I really like Richardson and Wade at DE, with Brown and Neal battling them

I think we can get more pressure on the QB bringing in a blitzer or 2 from different angles confusing 0-lines, I think Our Underneath pass Defense will be MUCH MUCH better, which will free up our safeties to back up and keep everything in front of them.

HOWEVER....I think our Run D will suffer from this, but if we can keep an Average Run D, and get an Average Pass D out of it, our offense should be able to bail us out

My #1 concern though is DEFENSIVE TACKLE....I like Our LB's for the 3-4, I like our ends for the 3-4....I don't think we have a DT that can get the job done though...

You need a monster that not only draws Double teams (A MUST) but he still needs to make plays despite the Double team (for the D to excel) I thought the Hand/Laws combo would work well in the 4-3...but I dont think either can do what is needed for the 3-4....and I seriously doubt Ian Williams will be ready

Should be interesting to see how that position pans out

 

[Satans Little Helper]

I'm actually pretty excited about the 3-4...now Usually I'm not a big fan of the 3-4 but with the personel and the issues we have, I think this could be a very good thing..

Brockington and T. Smith in the middle with Crum and Vernaglia on the outside..that will give us a lot of speed and the ability to blitz from all angles...Thomas could be in the Mix (though Really think he will be the #1 RB so I doubt it), maybe Zbikowski, but Weis has come out and said, "HE IS NOT A LB, and will be a SS in the pro's"...could change, I'd love to see it change, but I'm not holding my breathe it will change

I really like Richardson and Wade at DE, with Brown and Neal battling them

I think we can get more pressure on the QB bringing in a blitzer or 2 from different angles confusing 0-lines, I think Our Underneath pass Defense will be MUCH MUCH better, which will free up our safeties to back up and keep everything in front of them.

HOWEVER....I think our Run D will suffer from this, but if we can keep an Average Run D, and get an Average Pass D out of it, our offense should be able to bail us out

My #1 concern though is DEFENSIVE TACKLE....I like Our LB's for the 3-4, I like our ends for the 3-4....I don't think we have a DT that can get the job done though...

You need a monster that not only draws Double teams (A MUST) but he still needs to make plays despite the Double team (for the D to excel) I thought the Hand/Laws combo would work well in the 4-3...but I dont think either can do what is needed for the 3-4....and I seriously doubt Ian Williams will be ready

Should be interesting to see how that position pans out

while i agree with most of that, i think neal should be moved to LB rather than DE and let Nuss (6'5 295) become accustomed to the NT postition. He is already at the ideal size beng so young and all. he could really fill out and be that monster. this year, maybe not but by the time he is a senior yikes. He could be 6'7 320. why not get him started. Get him a year under his belt.

 

[patman1868]

I think that if we moved to a 3-4 kerry neal and morrice richardson would be great OLBs for that scheme, Wade would be good also. The problem with putting them at DE is that they are too small to play 3-4, and it would not be using their strengths as pass rushers to put them at DE. I guess crum could play OLB also so if there was a solid rotation there, we could constantly have fresh guys on the field making plays. The inside could be toryan smith, brockington and vernaglia rotating them. I think that could be a solid linebacking core.

 

[Satans Little Helper]

I think that if we moved to a 3-4 kerry neal and morrice richardson would be great OLBs for that scheme, Wade would be good also. The problem with putting them at DE is that they are too small to play 3-4, and it would not be using their strengths as pass rushers to put them at DE. I guess crum could play OLB also so if there was a solid rotation there, we could constantly have fresh guys on the field making plays. The inside could be toryan smith, brockington and vernaglia rotating them. I think that could be a solid linebacking core.

the beauty of a 3-4 is with big fast LBs (sized like Neal and Wade) is that its like having 4 DEs in the pass rush. They can be put in the MLB or OLB spots and put pressurein the A gaps forcing the guards to make choices exposing the b gaps for pressure. and also cloggs the rushing holes.

 

[FleaFlicker]

I'm actually pretty excited about the 3-4...now Usually I'm not a big fan of the 3-4 but with the personel and the issues we have, I think this could be a very good thing..

Brockington and T. Smith in the middle with Crum and Vernaglia on the outside..that will give us a lot of speed and the ability to blitz from all angles...Thomas could be in the Mix (though Really think he will be the #1 RB so I doubt it), maybe Zbikowski, but Weis has come out and said, "HE IS NOT A LB, and will be a SS in the pro's"...could change, I'd love to see it change, but I'm not holding my breathe it will change

I really like Richardson and Wade at DE, with Brown and Neal battling them

I think we can get more pressure on the QB bringing in a blitzer or 2 from different angles confusing 0-lines, I think Our Underneath pass Defense will be MUCH MUCH better, which will free up our safeties to back up and keep everything in front of them.

HOWEVER....I think our Run D will suffer from this, but if we can keep an Average Run D, and get an Average Pass D out of it, our offense should be able to bail us out

My #1 concern though is DEFENSIVE TACKLE....I like Our LB's for the 3-4, I like our ends for the 3-4....I don't think we have a DT that can get the job done though...

You need a monster that not only draws Double teams (A MUST) but he still needs to make plays despite the Double team (for the D to excel) I thought the Hand/Laws combo would work well in the 4-3...but I dont think either can do what is needed for the 3-4....and I seriously doubt Ian Williams will be ready

Should be interesting to see how that position pans out

We should stick Chris Little at Nose tackle, doesn't he weigh like over 350 pounds now

 

[FleaFlicker]

the beauty of a 3-4 is with big fast LBs (sized like Neal and Wade) is that its like having 4 DEs in the pass rush. They can be put in the MLB or OLB spots and put pressurein the A gaps forcing the guards to make choices exposing the b gaps for pressure. and also cloggs the rushing holes.

So no one is thinking that Nagel or Paskorz will play a part, eh?

Remember, AJ Hawk was a 3-star yadda yadda yadda

 

[johnnd05]

All I know is that we need to move Mo Crum back to OLB ...

 

[gboroirish]

i think crum would be an inside linebacker in a 3-4

 

[solo]

I can't say that I am familiar enough with our players to know who would start. What I can say is that when LB is a weakness for you, I don't think it makes sense to add another into the mix.

We just moved a good running back to LB last year. That's gotta tell ya something. Again, I don't know all the players we have on the roster, but my gut tells me that we don't have the personnel to run a 3-4.

 

[gboroirish]

if we go to a 3-4 some DE move to outside linebackers and some outside linebackers from the 3-4 go inside. paddy mullen could be a 3-4 DE

 

[Stalking_Eagle]

I was the major person saying back in the fall that Zibby will never be a LB. After seeing Ray Herring play I think if Zibby can get his weight back up to what he fought at I would like to see him play at OLB. To play a 3-4 we need speed at LB and I we all know he has the speed, if he can add weight to his base so he doesn't get blown up by blockers I think he can be a great LB. TT and Zibby outside wouldn't be bad at all I don't think. I think Laws could be a great NT. People under-estimate him IMO. With Crum and T-Smith at MLB and the right schemes, I'm not really familar what CW wants to try but I think we will turn some heads next year.

 

[FleaFlicker]

I was the major person saying back in the fall that Zibby will never be a LB. After seeing Ray Herring play I think if Zibby can get his weight back up to what he fought at I would like to see him play at OLB. To play a 3-4 we need speed at LB and I we all know he has the speed, if he can add weight to his base so he doesn't get blown up by blockers I think he can be a great LB. TT and Zibby outside wouldn't be bad at all I don't think. I think Laws could be a great NT. People under-estimate him IMO. With Crum and T-Smith at MLB and the right schemes, I'm not really familar what CW wants to try but I think we will turn some heads next year.

TT won't be playing defense next year. By all accounts, he is switching back to offense. And to tell you the truth, I have to think we will have someone better for the position than he was. Nothing against him, I really appreciate him stepping up to help the team. But we have some people that are natural LB's that shed blocks easier than he was last year.

 

[Satans Little Helper]

So no one is thinking that Nagel or Paskorz will play a part, eh?

Remember, AJ Hawk was a 3-star yadda yadda yadda

i didt forget him just mentioning that we have some options for this defense which a lot of people dont think we do.

 

[Stalking_Eagle]

TT won't be playing defense next year. By all accounts, he is switching back to offense. And to tell you the truth, I have to think we will have someone better for the position than he was. Nothing against him, I really appreciate him stepping up to help the team. But we have some people that are natural LB's that shed blocks easier than he was last year.

I agree with you that we more than likely have better people. I just haven't heard anything about him switching back so I'm going to assume he is going to play LB until I hear otherwise from the coaches.

 

[Stalking_Eagle]

So no one is thinking that Nagel or Paskorz will play a part, eh?

Remember, AJ Hawk was a 3-star yadda yadda yadda

Then he grew long hair and became NFL talent. *Hint Hint the whole defense should grow long hair*

 

[GoshenGipper]

I agree with you that we more than likely have better people. I just haven't heard anything about him switching back so I'm going to assume he is going to play LB until I hear otherwise from the coaches.

I remember reading an article about it before the Sugar Bowl. BTW I vote NAY on the long hair idea!

 

[LeahysLad]

The 3-4 defense appears to be on the way for the Irish. This is great, imho, for the Irish. I coach HS FB and have read a bunch of stuff and tried different things using a 3-4...here's my 2-cents...given the economy, it may not be worth that much...

Def. Backs--Base Cover 2 system means little change in overall scheme for the youngest and most talented unit on the defense. There will be "tweaks" (COVER THE DEEP BALL and BOTH SAFETIES NEED TO BE INVOLVED IN COVERAGE come to mind), but the base system won't be foreign to them. Switching to a 3-5-3, 4-2-5, or a Bear 46 would mean significant new learning. Plays to the strengths of the existing system and roster (new recruits included).

Linebackers--Look at the available players:

Crum (6-0/220)ILB/OLB, S. Smith (6-3/242)ILB, Washington (6-1/239)ILB, Quinn (6-2/215)OLB, T. Smith (6-0/230)ILB, Brockington (6-1/220)ILB, Richardson (6-2/228)OLB/DE, Vernaglia (6-3/230)ILB/OLB, Travis Thomas? (6-0/215)OLB

There are 2 LB philosophies I've seen with the 3-4:
1. Big inside--can go smaller/quicker at DE because ILB's can take on O-line blocks
2. Big outside--can contain the outside with LB's to free up D-line to stop the inside runs--OLB/DE tweeners could benefit from this version.

Looking at the available players and what they've played so far, this is a good quality group that gives the coaching staff flexibility in how they want to use the 3-4 defense. If the D-line develops, this group platooned or used in specific situations. Some smaller DE's could add to the size of the the OLB group as well.

Defensive line--This group has some players that could really benefit from this system, imho.
Smallish DT's (250-270) make very good DE's in a 3-4--quicker than typical DT, but able to take on the OT's/TE's/FB's.
The traditional 4-3 DT's need to be 270-300+. This is easily the most difficult position to recruit, especially for ND. Too many of them get nabbed for the O-line in HS. In a 3-4, the need for those players is cut in half. Only the nose needs that kind of bulk. Including Williams (recruit), ND has 3 players that could work the nose--maybe 3 with Kuntz.

The zone blitz possibilities can be better in the 3-4, because there are more LB's than they are in the 4-3. Stunts tend to go better in an odd front, too because there's more room to operate than in the 4-3.

I like the way the depth chart and the 3-4 fit...it could be a very pleasant surprise on the defensive side of the ball for the Irish.

Lord knows, they're due!

 

[patman1868]

leahyslad dont forget to add kerry neal to the OLB spot. I think that he could be a monster at 3-4 OLB rushing the passer. I would love to see ND use him how SD uses shawne merriman, have him attack the passer from different spots to create havoc he could be good at that.

 

[LeahysLad]

leahyslad dont forget to add kerry neal to the OLB spot. I think that he could be a monster at 3-4 OLB rushing the passer. I would love to see ND use him how SD uses shawne merriman, have him attack the passer from different spots to create havoc he could be good at that.

The film I've seen on Neal is VERY impressive--similar to watching Richardson. Good call. I think the current recruits at LB (Neal, Paskorz, and Nagel) are all very good and could all find a niche in this defense.

 

[mat33]

I am a huge Dallas fan, so I have enjoyed watching the 3-4 for the past couple of years. While I may not be one of the biggest recruitniks I try to follow as much as possible and this is what my projection is for the ND 3-4.
DE-Nuss, Laws (both have good size and I think will be able to rush the passer from the DE position, I think that Laws is a prototype 3-4 DE)
NT-Williams, Stewart(if Stewart switches he could start for most NFL teams. If not Williams should be capable)
OLB-Richardson, Neal(This should be our best duo, both are athletic freaks yet are smallish 4-3 ends, as 3-4 OLB they should flourish and bring something we haven't had in a while, consitent pass rush)
ILB-Crum, Nagel( Nagel is big and fast enough to have early success and will be helped by the experienced Crum)
SS-Zibby ( Struggled last year, but with Smith protecting him in coverage, Zibby should be back to his old tricks)
FS-Smith (This guy is my favorite defensive prospect that ND has had since before the Davieham years, he will be a stud from the get-go)
CB-Walls, Gray (Walls struggled last year but should bounce back this year, Gray on the other hand should take full advantage of being an EE and start from day one)

I know that this is a really young group, but if Charlie is honest when he says he plays the best players that guys like Quinn, Brockington, and Vernaglia should not start at LB.

 

[FleaFlicker]

Another benefit that not many people have been thinking about... in regards to the 3-4 is this...

We are talking about college ball. In the pros, teams are usedto multiple looks. But in college, when almost everyone uses a 4-3, a 3-4 can be very confusing to O-Lines and QB's. Of course they will try to prepare for it, but there is a big difference when an offense is "used" to going against 4-3's all of the time, and then you have a brand new scheme to throw at them.

Let alone an aggressive 3-4. The most benefit this system may have, is that it will not let offenses easily get into a groove and know what to expect, who to block, and the coverage schemes. Personnel aside, that may be one of the biggest assets.

 

[sportallyr]

I liked what I saw of Brockington late last year. I think that he should man the middle along with T. Smith (I think that he develops into a star by the end of the year). Crum will flourish as an outside linebacker. He was excellent at blitzing last year (he seemed to be the only player who got to the QB when he blitzed) and he is a true playmaker. I think that M. Richardson will win the other starting outside linebacker spot, but will rotate with another youngster (Neal, Ryan, Wade, etc). I think that next year Zibby will re-establish next year and will play much better than he did this year. He will spend this off-season getting back into shape and recovering from his nagging injuries from this past year. Herring or Harrison Smith should battle for the other safety spot. The position I have the most trouble projecting is corner. We have some decent returning players in Lambert and Wooden and some highly regarded youngsters in McNeil, Walls and Gray. I really hope that 2 of these players step up big time because we haven't had a good defensive backfield in quite some time.

I can't wait for next year to start!

 

[claynd105]

Something to keep in mind is that if we switch to a 3-4, which even Mike Farrell reported as very likely, this helps with our linebacker depth. Neal and Richardson are not 3-4 DE's and thus would need to be OLB's, thus adding two more athletes to a need position. They are both, especially Neal, very well suited for the 3-4. This, however, does leave questions at DE.

 

[Stalking_Eagle]

I remember reading an article about it before the Sugar Bowl. BTW I vote NAY on the long hair idea!

Yea me too, I think an ND defensive full of mullets would be very uncalled for. Crum with a mullet haha

 

[Freeman Ara]

Is it even possible for African-americans to grow a mullet?

 

[TexasNDFan]

while i agree with most of that, i think neal should be moved to LB rather than DE and let Nuss (6'5 295) become accustomed to the NT postition. He is already at the ideal size beng so young and all. he could really fill out and be that monster. this year, maybe not but by the time he is a senior yikes. He could be 6'7 320. why not get him started. Get him a year under his belt.

Well I think Neal will be the hybrid guy that can play up or down. Ryan will probably move to linebacker, because in a 3-4 the dline has to occupy as many of the OL as they can, so they have to be bigger and play more like DT's. The push from the Dline in this defense has to come from the NT, so how fast ND can swith to a 3-4 will depend on finding a guy that can play this position effectively.