Mike Sanford Jr. To WKU

[Cali_domer]

And none of those coaches have the pressure that the very cream of the crop programs have. It takes the skills of those coaches and the ability to be diplomatic and work the media and boosters a la Coach BK and Mack Brown to succeed at the highest levels.

Truth be told, I'm not sure that I'd consider those four programs elite destinations, though they're certainly close.

Oklahoma not Elite?

 

[woolybug25]

Serious question, when's the last time hiring an assistant has worked out for a top tier program? Not just your own assistant, but taking an OC or DC from somewhere else and watching the program rise to sucess. When has that happened?

- Larry Coker was hired as the Canes coach straight from an assistant and won a national title in his first year.

- Bret Bielema took over the Wisconson team when Alverez became AD and went on to average the alusive 10 wins per season metric.

- David Shaw took over Stanford after Harbaugh and has averaged 10+ wins, two Rose Bowl appearances and two conference championships.

- Jimbo Fisher was an assistant for Bobby Bowden, took over and won a National Title

- After Franchione left TCU for Alabama, his assistant Gary Patterson took over and has won 7 conference championships and finished #3 in the polls last year.

I could go on, but i'm sure you get the gist.

 

[koonja]

Dude, ND is a special breed, but there is totally high pressure for FSU, Georgia, and Oklahoma IMO.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Dude, ND is a special breed, but there is totally high pressure for FSU, Georgia, and Oklahoma IMO.

Yeah those bagmen and local PDs really stick it to those guys...

I think there's high pressure at those jobs, though not nearly as much as the Texas, USC, ND jobs.

How would the national media have reacted if Coach BK were to allow DGB to transfer into the program after being dismissed from Misery? How about reinstating Joe Mixon after his issues?

 

[tussin]

Dude, ND is a special breed, but there is totally high pressure for FSU, Georgia, and Oklahoma IMO.

Nah those are easy jobs.

 

[CTIDANDREW]

And none of those coaches have the pressure that the very cream of the crop programs have. It takes the skills of those coaches and the ability to be diplomatic and work the media and boosters a la Coach BK and Mack Brown to succeed at the highest levels.

Truth be told, I'm not sure that I'd consider those four programs elite destinations, though they're certainly close.

Not trying to be a dick, but if you don't think Georgia is a "elite" destination, than I'm not sure what could be???

Some of the best high school football in the country, hardly any competition from other instate schools when recruiting, and they play in the easier of the two SEC divisions. When Mark Richt eventually steps down/gets fired coaches will be killing themselves to fill that opening. Honestly, I'd say it is a top five job in the country.

 

[Cali_domer]

Yeah those bagmen and local PDs really stick it to those guys...

I think there's high pressure at those jobs, though not nearly as much as the Texas, USC, ND jobs.

How would the national media have reacted if Coach BK were to allow DGB to transfer into the program after being dismissed from Misery? How about reinstating Joe Mixon after his issues?

ND fans are way more patient then Oklahoma fans, they want Stoops gone. If Stoops had Kelly's record at Oklahoma he would have all ready been fired.

 

[zelezo vlk]

Not trying to be a dick, but if you don't think Georgia is a "elite" destination, than I'm not sure what could be???

Some of the best high school football in the country, hardly any competition from other instate schools when recruiting, and they play in the easier of the two SEC divisions. When Mark Richt eventually steps down/gets fired coaches will be killing themselves to fill that opening. Honestly, I'd say it is a top five job in the country.

No offense received. Georgia is about as close to elite as a job could be without being in that tier, all my own opinion of course.

I just don't think that the prestige is the same as winning at Southern Cal, Texas, ND etc.

 

[GATTACA!]

No offense received. Georgia is about as close to elite as a job could be without being in that tier, all my own opinion of course.

I just don't think that the prestige is the same as winning at Southern Cal, Texas, ND etc.

So you only want examples of assistants taking over and having success at one of those three specific schools?

 

[zelezo vlk]

So you only want examples of assistants taking over and having success at one of those three specific schools?

The list of elite/most prestigious schools that I have always been taught is:

Southern Cal
Texas
OSU
ND
Alabama
Michigan (never understood this one)

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that these schools carry a prestige above the vast majority and maybe even all other programs. Winning at these programs makes you a living legend. I don't mean to be dismissive, but if ND wants to be the best then we must consider ourselves to be the best.

This whole discussion arose because I disagreed with Koon that Sanford should be given the job when BK moves on. Do we think that he would be discussed as a possible candidate for any of those schools listed above? What about the other top tier/near elite schools of Georgia etc? I doubt it and I stand by my original opinion. Heck, let him take over UVA next year or the year after, build up strong recruiting pipelines in the Mid-Atlantic, then take the ND job after he's built up his resume at UVA.

 

[woolybug25]

The list of elite/most prestigious schools that I have always been taught is:

Southern Cal
Texas
OSU
ND
Alabama
Michigan (never understood this one)

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that these schools carry a prestige above the vast majority and maybe even all other programs. Winning at these programs makes you a living legend. I don't mean to be dismissive, but if ND wants to be the best then we must consider ourselves to be the best.

This whole discussion arose because I disagreed with Koon that Sanford should be given the job when BK moves on. Do we think that he would be discussed as a possible candidate for any of those schools listed above? What about the other top tier/near elite schools of Georgia etc? I doubt it and I stand by my original opinion. Heck, let him take over UVA next year or the year after, build up strong recruiting pipelines in the Mid-Atlantic, then take the ND job after he's built up his resume at UVA.

Gary Moeller was both an offensive and defensive coordinator for Schembechler, and took over for him. Lloyd Carr was also an assistant that was promoted to head coach for Michigan. He won 1/2 a National Title (hey... it's better than none).

 

[Te'o4Heisman]

Have to agree, Sanford is one you don't let go. He is also not your average asst coach, both in terms of maturity, coaching ability, and understanding how to relate with his players and handle himself. I get the impression this guy could handle himself and his upbringing situation definitely plays into this. I would say realistically we have minimum 2 years before we would be faced with having to make this decision anyhow, and I would bet anything Mike takes on more responsibility within the program and grows even more learning from Kelly during that time. There is a reason he wanted to come to ND when he could have gone anywhere, and don't think for a second that it is 100% about the school...he has made it pretty clear he wanted to learn from and work with Kelly...who according to some, sucks and should be fired.

 

[Cali_domer]

Have to agree, Sanford is one you don't let go. He is also not your average asst coach, both in terms of maturity, coaching ability, and understanding how to relate with his players and handle himself. I get the impression this guy could handle himself and his upbringing situation definitely plays into this. I would say realistically we have minimum 2 years before we would be faced with having to make this decision anyhow, and I would bet anything Mike takes on more responsibility within the program and grows even more learning from Kelly during that time. There is a reason he wanted to come to ND when he could have gone anywhere, and don't think for a second that it is 100% about the school...he has made it pretty clear he wanted to learn from and work with Kelly...who according to some, sucks and should be fired.

I have a radical idea, let's fire Kelly now and hire Sanford as Head Coach.[/I]

I'm not a Kelly supporter but at least he righted the ship and i hope that makes it attractive to big names again.

 

[ab2cmiller]

Weren't we all fawning over Diaco a couple of years ago????

Things definitely look very promising with Sanford, but I'm not ready to anoint him just yet.

 

[Irish#1]

Sanford "appears" to have the qualities to be a HC. That doesn't mean he's ready. If he wanted to come to ND to learn from BK, then that tells me he's not necessarily in a hurry to become a HC. It tells me he knows it takes a while to learn all of the nuances and how to handle all of the outside distractions. You also have to be a good judge of coaching talent and know who would be a good hire and for what position. Learn how to give direction and accept when someone has a better idea. When the time comes and BK steps down, if he's ready he'll get an endorsement from BK.

 

[Irish Insanity]

...who according to some, sucks and should be fired.

Nobody has said that.

 

[IrishLion]

Koon, how you can you make sweeping declarations about how ND needs to hang on to Sanford because of how things work with "rockstar" assistants, but then say that you don't pay attention to what happens with assistant coaches on the job market lol?

For the record, I don't really have an opinion one way or the other. And if you're just going on gut feeling about what would happen with Sanford, that's cool... I just think you should be careful making declarations about a subject and then mentioning two posts later that you don't actually pay attention to how it works lol.

 

[koonja]

Koon, how you can you make sweeping declarations about how ND needs to hang on to Sanford because of how things work with "rockstar" assistants, but then say that you don't pay attention to what happens with assistant coaches on the job market lol?

For the record, I don't really have an opinion one way or the other. And if you're just going on gut feeling about what would happen with Sanford, that's cool... I just think you should be careful making declarations about a subject and then mentioning two posts later that you don't actually pay attention to how it works lol.

I never based anything or said anything about 'it's worked out before with assistants therefore we should consider him'. I simply said talent is talent and you don't let it walk. IDC if it's the water boy going to be a GA or an assistant going to be a HC. If you have a rockstar talent, you throw the guidelines out the window and consider making a play.

No business decision has perfect information. But you don't follow protocol simply because someone hasn't met one prefered criteria if they check the hell out of every other box.

 

[tussin]

What constitutes a "rockstar" assistant? Was Diaco one as well?

 

[koonja]

What constitutes a "rockstar" assistant? Was Diaco one as well?

Hell no. When you're 32 and more than one analyst has called you the #1 assistant football coach of any position in the country, you qualify in my book.

How many assistants can claim that? The Bama DC and Sanford? Small list.

 

[tussin]

Hell no. When you're 32 and more than one analyst has called you the #1 assistant football coach of any position in the country, you qualify in my book.

How many assistants can claim that? The Bama DC and Sanford? Small list.

So the person who won an award for being the "best assistant" in college football does not qualify as a "rockstar assistant"?

 

[koonja]

So the person who won an award for being the "best assistant" in college football does not qualify as a "rockstar assistant"?

Who is that?

And no. Did MJ win every MVP?

And best assistant award has nothing to do with the fact that Sanford is going to be an elite recruiter and is only 32.

 

[IrishLion]

I never based anything or said anything about 'it's worked out before with assistants therefore we should consider him'. I simply said talent is talent and you don't let it walk. IDC if it's the water boy going to be a GA or an assistant going to be a HC. If you have a rockstar talent, you throw the guidelines out the window and consider making a play.

No business decision has perfect information. But you don't follow protocol simply because someone hasn't met one prefered criteria if they check the hell out of every other box.

That's cool.

I just don't know if we know (or even if BK/ND know) how many boxes Sanford actually checks.

Great assistant? Duh, or else he wouldn't be where he is.

Great recruiter? That's up in the air. Depends not only on who he leads for, but also how those guys fit into the program. It will take a few years to make a call on that.

Great coordinator? Again, up in the air. People say that he calls the plays, but we don't know what that actually entails under BK.

Politician? Supervisor? Hiring Manager? Communications with Administration?

I think Sanford is awesome, but there are plenty of guys out there that are currently more proven commodities in terms of all of the above things.

Would I hate it if ND took a chance on a dude like Sanford when the time comes? Absolutely not. Would I understand if he had to go try his luck elsewhere in favor of a more proven guy being brought in? Absolutely.

 

[koonja]

That's cool.

I just don't know if we know (or even if BK/ND know) how many boxes Sanford actually checks.

Great assistant? Duh, or else he wouldn't be where he is.

Great recruiter? That's up in the air. Depends not only on who he leads for, but also how those guys fit into the program. It will take a few years to make a call on that.

Great coordinator? Again, up in the air. People say that he calls the plays, but we don't know what that actually entails under BK.

Politician? Supervisor? Hiring Manager? Communications with Administration?

I think Sanford is awesome, but there are plenty of guys out there that are currently more proven commodities in terms of all of the above things.

Would I hate it if ND took a chance on a dude like Sanford when the time comes? Absolutely not. Would I understand if he had to go try his luck elsewhere in favor of a more proven guy being brought in? Absolutely.

That's fair. But I don't think it's a limb to predict he's going to be great here as an assistant coach and elite recruiter. I think he turns out to be just that, but he hasn't been here for a signing day yet.

If he checks those boxes, I'll be pissed if we let him go coach UCLA or something like that and he turns out to be great. And all of the humble bumbs will sit there with their arms crossed saying 'well it wouldn't have worked that well here', when I think it can because he's familiar with the program. He's already a freaking coach at ND. He gets ND or will by the time BK leaves.

 

[tussin]

Who is that?

And no. Did MJ win every MVP?

And best assistant award has nothing to do with the fact that Sanford is going to be an elite recruiter and is only 32.

Diaco won the Broyles Award.

I think Sanford is great but it seems like you have a weird love affair with him. Must be trying to compensate now that GB is gone.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Diaco won the Broyles Award.

I think Sanford is great but it seems like you have a weird love affair with him. Must be trying to compensate now that GB is gone.

IIRC Koon also had a love affair with Diaco

 

[koonja]

Diaco won the Broyles Award.

I think Sanford is great but it seems like you have a weird love affair with him. Must be trying to compensate now that GB is gone.

Nope, just recognize talent when people who follow closer than I do rave about it, coupled with being young, energetic, and an alleged great recruiter.

I like talent.

 

[koonja]

IIRC Koon also had a love affair with Diaco

Never cared for Diaco one way or another.

 

[tussin]

Nope, just recognize talent when people who follow closer than I do rave about it, coupled with being young, energetic, and an alleged great recruiter.

I like talent.

I'm just messing with you but there is nothing to substantiate the bolded.

Who do you follow closely that is raving about Sanford?

 

[Irish#1]

Nope, just recognize talent when people who follow closer than I do rave about it, coupled with being young, energetic, and an alleged great recruiter.

I like talent.

Do you know how close they really follow this? Maybe this analyst heard that from another coach and he's basing his comments off one one guys opinion. I learned a long time ago that there are plenty of talented coaches out there, even on losing teams.