Quit the Bitching

[hmoney]

I know we all want to win a NC yesterday but it takes time to build a program and especially when the talent level isn't there to begin with......Charlie has raised our expectations by winning so many games so quickly.....we have unrealistic expectations for this team....think about it two years ago if someone told me ND would be 19-6 the next two years I would have jumped all over it .......the fact is Charlie has won with less talent and once we have three of his recruiting classes in here we will have the talent to go with the coaching.....he has raised the bar too quickly and doesn't have the talent to compete with the powerhouses just yet......

 

[FleaFlicker]

Constructive criticism is fine by me. I saw not only a talent gap, but an inspiration gap, and a scheme gap. You can blame the latter two on the coaching. On defense, we were basically playing like a high school team. And on offense, which we are supposed to be very good at, we didn't look much better either, especially in the second half.

 

[nd1]

very well said but people that really doesn't follow nd but when they win aren't doesn't realize that. all they look at is the wins and loses. I know they matter but cw is doing a great job getting the talent level where it needs to be,but it takes time and you are going to have growing pains.

 

[ND81]

I didn't see a lack of inspiration, they came out smiling, loose, and ready to play. When LSU players shout their mouth off, they stood right there with them and did the same. LSU's talent was just too much for the Irish. it's difficult to flip to every sport site on the net and see another article about an ND that got handled. I have complete faith in Weis though. His recruiting classes have been great, and the future only looks to be brighter. Next year will be tough for an ND if you have unrealistic expectations. The team will struggle, but will show signs of brilliance as well. Look out for the Irish in 08' and beyond.

 

[irishN1]

well put guys it's going to be 2 yrs!!! and we won't be having this conversation!

 

[Steve]

how many people think they will still be posting here in two years?

 

[leppycole]

I am on the boat for the future and I do wish some more underclassmen got in the game on D

 

[GREENJERSEYS'07]

how many people think they will still be posting here in two years?

I will be.

 

[Indydomer]

Also Weis will continue to grow with these kids he is recruiting. As these new studs grow into playmakers, Weis's coaching ability will continue to climb. You have to remember he is only in his second year as a head coach. He is a hell of a coach, but just think about when he gets 4 or 5 years in and has the talent needed to win the big games. He is still learning and that is scary. He was outcoached last night in my opinion. That will change as quickly as the talent disparity in my opinion.

Also thanks for starting a thread that has a good topic and isn't full of bullshit.

 

[okanst07]

Indy domer, I think this board is pretty good as a whole. I used to read UHND a lot but it's is pretty bad and lacks anything but people bitching about stuff. I like this Forum.

I also agree with your post. Can't wait to see Weis over the next 3-4 years. I also look forward to nex years group, I expect 8 maybe 9 wins but I have a feeling it is going to be really exciting stuff.

 

[sonomairishfan]

Constructive criticism is fine by me. I saw not only a talent gap, but an inspiration gap, and a scheme gap. You can blame the latter two on the coaching. On defense, we were basically playing like a high school team. And on offense, which we are supposed to be very good at, we didn't look much better either, especially in the second half.

great points. i don't think many people are bitching about wies. i think people are tired of the same old zone defensive schemes that just do not work. you'd think that minter would learn that especially since he is basically running the same bend but don't break scheme that he ran his first trip to ND. the guy needs to go.

 

[ND81]

great points. i don't think many people are bitching about wies. i think people are tired of the same old zone defensive schemes that just do not work. you'd think that minter would learn that especially since he is basically running the same bend but don't break scheme that he ran his first trip to ND. the guy needs to go.

I don't want this to turn into the Fire Rick Minter thread, but something has to be done, a message has to be sent that this type of play is not acceptable. The only way you do that at the college level is by bringing better players, and or making changes at the coaching level. We know Weis isn't going anywhere, but everyone else on that defensive staff should be afraid of the employment status at ND.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

I don't want this to turn into the Fire Rick Minter thread, but something has to be done, a message has to be sent that this type of play is not acceptable. The only way you do that at the college level is by bringing better players, and or making changes at the coaching level. We know Weis isn't going anywhere, but everyone else on that defensive staff should be afraid of the employment status at ND.

I have no doubt they are...

Weis is not some teddy bear...you can bet he is ripping new a-holes behind closed doors.

It's not like he was nice to polian when he asked him to get off the field on 60 minutes.

 

[HeliND]

I just love reading all the boards with people bashing Weis and the team. Weis is to blame, fire Minter, we have no talent, blah blah blah. It's really comical. I have to admit that is one thing that I’m not proud about when I hear ND fans bashing a coach who has done so much more than expected. I mean really look at what he has done with absolutely no depth and really sub-par talent. There is what like 6 scholarship players in the junior class. The sophomore class (Weis’s 1st class) had like 14 players that were mostly sub-par. You can’t expect him to save a sinking ship in a few years. Give him some time. When Sam Young’s a senior and we are still getting blown out by 30 to Michigan, USC and our bowl game opponent then you have a reason to bitch. As for now shut up about it and just enjoy the ride.

 

[irishN1]

STEVE,I'll be posting on this site in 2yrs.and beyond!!!

 

[sonomairishfan]

I just love reading all the boards with people bashing Weis and the team. Weis is to blame, fire Minter, we have no talent, blah blah blah. It's really comical. I have to admit that is one thing that I’m not proud about when I hear ND fans bashing a coach who has done so much more than expected. I mean really look at what he has done with absolutely no depth and really sub-par talent. There is what like 6 scholarship players in the junior class. The sophomore class (Weis’s 1st class) had like 14 players that were mostly sub-par. You can’t expect him to save a sinking ship in a few years. Give him some time. When Sam Young’s a senior and we are still getting blown out by 30 to Michigan, USC and our bowl game opponent then you have a reason to bitch. As for now shut up about it and just enjoy the ride.

i don't think people are bashing wies.

 

[hmoney]

I think people are bashing Weis...it is all over the radio..T.v. and message boards....even some morons trying to say Willingham is a better coach because he won 3 games agaiinst top 25 teams blah blah blah.....all I have to say is they better get it in now because in a couple of years they will have to find another angle to criticize because Charlie will have ND a top of college football for many years to come we are just in the beginning stages of the dynasty and we will look back and say do you remember when we had to move a running back to linebacker to field a defense.

 

[noel fighting irish hall]

I have my fear about the talent gap even in the future. College footbal is such a money thing that universities across the nation are making it easy for outstanding football players no matter their high school grades or courses taken to enter their schools. We no longer get kids like the Rocket, Tony Rice or Chris Zorich. We are stricter in our admissions . Lou Holtz was criticised by the professors at ND for bringing young men who showed academic promise but lacked the grades, test scores and course work. All three of these former players are productive members of society. I know of players accepted to USC who were good players and yet were deliquents in the neighborhood. These players never graduated and didn't make it to Pro football. A lot of universities are using a program of entrance set aside for promising minorities who had academic potential. They now bring in good ball players under this guise. It cheats the non athelets it was indended for.

 

[donnie hoss]

I remember 2-3 years back when we lost to teams with less talent. We have moved past that hurdle and need to take the next step. It will not happen until our talent base is brought up a notch. I think Charlie has done a great job. He stated at the start that the days of losing to BYU, Purdue and others are history. We are very near the point of hanging with the power teams, but not with the mistakes and stupid penalties. I think that is one area the coaching staff needs to fix. When you play great teams you can't give them free passes(see our loses). Charlie takes many chances that would not be taken if our D was at least ok by others standards. I am worried about Minter, maybe we should get a good young coach that is not afraid to take some chances and have a group of kids fly to the ball. I miss the days when our players had a chip on their shoulders, played that way and backed it up. Maybe I am wrong, but I just don't see or feel that fire from the players. They all seem unsure. I think things will change for the better next year, we will see more emotion from the younger guys coming up. Give Charlie a break, he will be hell to deal with when he is able to coach the way he wants, with an equal talent base.

 

[Indydomer]

You should have been here about a year ago. This site was 1000 times better my man.

 

[Aaronl]

I know we all want to win a NC yesterday but it takes time to build a program and especially when the talent level isn't there to begin with......Charlie has raised our expectations by winning so many games so quickly.....we have unrealistic expectations for this team....think about it two years ago if someone told me ND would be 19-6 the next two years I would have jumped all over it .......the fact is Charlie has won with less talent and once we have three of his recruiting classes in here we will have the talent to go with the coaching.....he has raised the bar too quickly and doesn't have the talent to compete with the powerhouses just yet......

im happy with the way the program is headed but im tired of the talent excuses im not expecting a National Title soon but i did expect ND to compete with the big boys and they couldnt even come close.

 

[Irish52]

I repeat..Boise St. won 13 games with 95% 2-star athletes. How did they do that? Superior coaching! You can have a fistful of 5 star athletes: when you combine that talent with 1-star coaching....the on-field is mediocre, at best. ND needs a better coaching staff, the athletes are fine.

 

[IrishFanDC]

Superior coaching, perhaps. But after seeing that game, a big ol' set of brass balls didn't hurt, either!

 

[weisbankaccount]

honeymoon is over - the 19-6 was 19-4 two games ago - the "19 and" thing is old already. I wouldnt be critical if any of these 3 losses were within 10 points but they were all ridiculous blowouts that embarrased ND on a large scale.

 

[FleaFlicker]

I repeat..Boise St. won 13 games with 95% 2-star athletes. How did they do that? Superior coaching! You can have a fistful of 5 star athletes: when you combine that talent with 1-star coaching....the on-field is mediocre, at best. ND needs a better coaching staff, the athletes are fine.

You are right. However, you will be much more right if Boise St goes on to have a lot of success in a similar fashion. It's not like teams like that are consistent powers. They have one good year and then go back into the woodwork.

Which means that the players are better collectively than they are by themselves. And it also means that they probably got lucky quite a few times in a season. Of course great coaching helps in all of those areas, and it wouldn't be possible to do what they did without it. But it is also clear that we have much less talent than perrenial powers like USC, OSU, UM, LSU, FL. In terms of sheer talent.

If you think that we haven't coached UP our offense from Willingham days, just look at the numbers, with pretty much the same athletes. That is good coaching.

By the same token, our D has actually gotten worse, due to lack of new athletes AND poor coaching. We got an upgrade in Offense and a downgrade in defense since the Weis Era. but we have also been winning more games.

Once we can improve our defense like our offense has, we will be a much more solid team. And I think the best way to do that right now is hire a new D-Coordinator.

 

[sblxdoc]

honeymoon is over - the 19-6 was 19-4 two games ago - the "19 and" thing is old already. I wouldnt be critical if any of these 3 losses were within 10 points but they were all ridiculous blowouts that embarrased ND on a large scale.

You are delusional. There were only 2 games that were legit blowouts and that was the Michigan game and LSU. The Ohio St. and USC game were made to look worse with some fluke bullshit.

When ND is winning championships and you start coming around, now that will be embarrasing.

 

[Satans Little Helper]

You are delusional. There were only 2 games that were legit blowouts and that was the Michigan game and LSU. The Ohio St. and USC game were made to look worse with some fluke bullshit.

When ND is winning championships and you start coming around, now that will be embarrasing.

OSu and USC dominated ND the entira game for both of those. Just because the score is not 20+ points does not menan that ND did not gets their butts kicked.

Those were 4 serious defeats that really showed how our d could be exploited.

 

[rontdtarchala]

First, boise state has been very good for several years with 2 different coaches so catch up. We have enough talent to be an A team...we have had very poor coaching on the defensive side of the ball...and as I have said before in crucial games CW has let his emotions over power his intelligence...let's be honest really honest if teams like boise, wake, rutgers can do what they have done why can't we...if you remember correctly how long did it take schionno to get rutgers kicking tail? It is time to make it happen and please all of us need to stop making excuses for why CW and crew are not getting it done...Now in Cw's defense it did take poodle till his third year to start showing a major turn around so we need to see some changes this coming season...freshmen are not an excuse people or is it that others teams freshman can be super stars and ours can't reach the moon? please give me a break, Charlie needs to make the decisions that need to be made to make us what we should be and where we should be...period!

 

[username]

rontdtarcharla - super post and I agree with you almost completely except for the thought that we have enough talent to be an A team. I think we are an exceptional overachieving B team. I agree 100% with weisbankaccount and goldendomer1977.