2016 Presidential Horse Race

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Donald Trump doesn't challenge anti-Muslim questioner - CNNPolitics.com

 

[GoIrish41]

I don't know for certain, but I was under the impression that most illegal immigration stars as people with work permits who just don't leave after they expire. A wall will not prevent this. How many of the 500 a day who some have claimed enter illegally each day did so in the way I described? If this is the biggest issue then should that be factored into the cost-benefit analysis of building $100 million-plus wall to prevent a problem that is is 40-60% different than politicians on the right are saying? And is all illegal immigration from our southern border?

 

[Ultimate Penn St. Hater]

Trump must believe that Cruz is ineligible to serve as president since he was born in Canada.

 

[pkt77242]

With 500 illegal immigrants entering the country each day, on average, I would say it appears to be wide open. Maybe the manpower just isn't enough, or maybe the manpower just isn't effective due to morale, malaise, whatever........ but it's obviously not working on it's own. So give it some help

Something like 40% of illegal immigrants come here legally and overstay. A fence doesn't stop them. I believe that we have reached the tipping point on securing our borders where we will be getting diminishing returns for each extra dollar spent.

I think a better use of money would be to track people who come here legally and then overstay their visas.

If you really want to curb illegal immigration just throw the CEO of a company in jail if they hire illegal immigrants.

 

[kmoose]

Something like 40% of illegal immigrants come here legally and overstay. A fence doesn't stop them. I believe that we have reached the tipping point on securing our borders where we will be getting diminishing returns for each extra dollar spent.

I think a better use of money would be to track people who come here legally and then overstay their visas.

If you really want to curb illegal immigration just throw the CEO of a company in jail if they hire illegal immigrants.

Again....... it is not about illegal immigration. It's about closing down easy access to any a$$hole with a WMD who wants to set it off in a major American city. And it's not about "guaranteeing" that they don't get in. That's not reasonable. But, if you close down the easy access, then you limit the number of groups with the resources to make it happen. That means you can(hopefully) commit enough resources to monitoring each one that you will be able to figure it out before it happens. As it stands now, any Timothy McVeigh wannabe could have a WMD from North Korea or ISIS or <insert whoever hates America here> brought across the border with relative ease.

 

[Buster Bluth]

With 500 illegal immigrants entering the country each day, on average, I would say it appears to be wide open. Maybe the manpower just isn't enough, or maybe the manpower just isn't effective due to morale, malaise, whatever........ but it's obviously not working on it's own. So give it some help

See this is astonishing to me. This is an argument that shouldn't be coming from the "government can't do jack shit correctly" crowd.

The border is 1,954 miles. At 500 people a day that's a person per 3.9 miles. At any hour of the day, we need to be looking at four miles to catch one person, who is then sent back home to try again.

You don't have to consider the numbers very long before coming to the conclusion that this won't work, especially when you consider the ability of the federal government.

 

[pkt77242]

Again....... it is not about illegal immigration. It's about closing down easy access to any a$$hole with a WMD who wants to set it off in a major American city. And it's not about "guaranteeing" that they don't get in. That's not reasonable. But, if you close down the easy access, then you limit the number of groups with the resources to make it happen. That means you can(hopefully) commit enough resources to monitoring each one that you will be able to figure it out before it happens. As it stands now, any Timothy McVeigh wannabe could have a WMD from North Korea or ISIS or <insert whoever hates America here> brought across the border with relative ease.

I am not against more security on the border, I am just against a wall. If you wanted to talk about adding more agents, or new technology, I would be up for it. I just think that a wall is only a temporary measure as they will find ways around it, over it, under it and through it. Plus it is extremely expensive and will require a ton of maintenance.

 

[Cackalacky]

Again....... someone could easily break one of your windows to get into your house, but that doesn't mean that you leave your doors open. The fewer openings you leave, the more effectively you can employ your resources.

Your Windows and locks don't cost 100 billion dollars, so it's relatively cheap to replace and maintain. That's not a very compelling argument or anecdote IMO. No one is really discussing the massive increase in government by doing this. I thought the goal is to stop spending money? You don't like Sanders because he wants to spend taxes helping people yet are maybe ok with a huge cost to totally secure 18000 miles of boundaries and a massive increase in a policing/military based operation? That is totally unreasonable.

Building this wall does nothing with illegals that are here and would actually make it harder for them to leave without getting caught.

 

[Buster Bluth]

Again....... it is not about illegal immigration. It's about closing down easy access to any a$$hole with a WMD who wants to set it off in a major American city. And it's not about "guaranteeing" that they don't get in. That's not reasonable. But, if you close down the easy access, then you limit the number of groups with the resources to make it happen. That means you can(hopefully) commit enough resources to monitoring each one that you will be able to figure it out before it happens. As it stands now, any Timothy McVeigh wannabe could have a WMD from North Korea or ISIS or <insert whoever hates America here> brought across the border with relative ease.

The sort of people who can get their hands on WMDs have the ability to get into the US. Sure we build a 2,000-mile wall, but the guy who can get a WMD can walk right across the desolate parts of the US-Canadian border without a problem.

There is no reasonable solution to the hypothetical you propose. It's as simple as that.

 

[GoIrish41]

Again....... it is not about illegal immigration. It's about closing down easy access to any a$$hole with a WMD who wants to set it off in a major American city. And it's not about "guaranteeing" that they don't get in. That's not reasonable. But, if you close down the easy access, then you limit the number of groups with the resources to make it happen. That means you can(hopefully) commit enough resources to monitoring each one that you will be able to figure it out before it happens. As it stands now, any Timothy McVeigh wannabe could have a WMD from North Korea or ISIS or <insert whoever hates America here> brought across the border with relative ease.

$100 billion-plus to stop something from happening that has never happened? Costs are not including people to man it or maintenance. That number could skyrocket quick. I'm not disagreeing about your scenario being a possibility, but it seems like there has to be a more efficient way to deal with it.

 

[Cackalacky]

Truman's Gun Plan is as crazy as you might think.

He has it wrong from the first paragraph but at least it's a start.

 

[pkt77242]

Rand Paul aide: Marco Rubio aide hit me at a bar - CNNPolitics.com

 

[GoIrish41]

Rand Paul aide: Marco Rubio aide hit me at a bar - CNNPolitics.com

Lol!

 

[phgreek]

Rand Paul aide: Marco Rubio aide hit me at a bar - CNNPolitics.com

oh my hell, we even fight like girls now...SMH!

 

[BGIF]

Carly Fiorina rockets to No. 2 behind Donald Trump - CNNPolitics.com

By Eric Bradner
9/20/15

Washington (CNN)Carly Fiorina shot into second place in the Republican presidential field on the heels of another strong debate performance, and Donald Trump has lost some support, a new national CNN/ORC poll shows.

The survey, conducted in the three days after 23 million people tuned in to Wednesday night's GOP debate on CNN, shows that Trump is still the party's front-runner with 24% support. That, though, is an 8 percentage point decrease from earlier in the month when a similar poll had him at 32%.

Fiorina ranks second with 15% support -- up from 3% in early September. She's just ahead of Ben Carson's 14%, though Carson's support has also declined from 19% in the previous poll.

Driving Trump's drop and Fiorina's rise: a debate in which 31% of Republicans who watched said Trump was the loser, and 52% identified Fiorina as the winner.

During the CNN debate, Fiorina clashed with Trump over his personal attacks and their business records and scored points for her condemnation of Planned Parenthood.

The top three contenders underscore a key theme in the 2016 race: In a jampacked GOP presidential field, the leading candidates are the only ones who have never held political office.

But one established politician has seen his standing rise after flashing foreign policy chops on the debate stage. Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida -- identified as Wednesday's winner by 14% of Republicans, putting him second behind Fiorina -- is now in fourth place with 11% support, up from 3% in a previous poll.

In fifth place is former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, at 9%. He's followed by Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee at 6% each, Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky at 4%, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie at 3%, Ohio Gov. John Kasich at 2% and former Sen. Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania at 1%.

Five other candidates received less than one-half of 1 percentage point support: former Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore, Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, former New York Gov. George Pataki and Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker.

Walker's collapse is especially stark.

Celebrated by conservatives -- in the party's base and its donor class alike -- for his union-busting efforts in Wisconsin, Walker at one point led the field in the key early voting state of Iowa.

His support had already dropped to 5% in a CNN/ORC poll in early September, but the bottom appears to have fallen out completely since then -- with a second flat debate performance coming after criticism of his disparate answers on issues like birthright citizenship.

Carson was a quiet presence in Wednesday's debate, but he remains the most popular candidate in the GOP field, with 65% of Republican voters saying they view him favorably, compared with just 10% saying they have an unfavorable opinion of the retired neurosurgeon.

Rubio ranks second in the popularity contest, with 57% viewing him favorably and 16% unfavorably. He's followed by Fiorina (54% favorable to 17% unfavorable), Huckabee (53% to 28% unfavorable), Cruz (52% to 22%) and Trump (52% to 40%).

The biggest positive movement was in favor of Fiorina, whose favorability rating has climbed by 9 percentage points since August. And the biggest drop hit Trump, who shed 6 percentage points in that same period.

But Trump still stands out on the issues.

About 44% of likely GOP voters say they see Trump as the candidate who could best handle the economy -- well ahead of his nearest competitors: Fiorina at 11%, Rubio at 10% and Bush at 8%.

Trump also wins on immigration, with 47% saying he could best address the issue, ahead of second-place Rubio's 15% and Bush's 9%.

He even edges Rubio, 22% to 17%, on who could best handle foreign policy.

The poll offered some good overall news for Republicans: 65% of GOP voters said they are either "extremely" or "very" enthusiastic about voting in the 2016 presidential race, compared with 51% of Democrats.

The CNN/ORC poll was conducted September 17-19 and surveyed 1,006 adult Americans, including 924 registered voters -- 444 of whom are Republicans and independents who lean toward the GOP. The margin of error with the Republican results is plus or minus 4.5 percentage points.

 

[BGIF]

The details of the poll, methodology, questions posed, and breakdown of results canbe found at the link.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2015/images/09/20/rel10a.pdf

They contacted 1006 people of which about 39% identified themselves as registered Democrats or registered Independents leaning Democrat.

 

[Cackalacky]

Two days later, Sanders draws five times as many people as Clinton to event at same university in N.H. - The Washington Post

 

[phgreek]

Two days later, Sanders draws five times as many people as Clinton to event at same university in N.H. - The Washington Post

...that makes me feel better about people. We'll see what happens...will those people who went to Sanders still pull the lever for Hills if she wins the nomination...

 

[Cackalacky]

...that makes me feel better about people. We'll see what happens...will those people who went to Sanders still pull the lever for Hills if she wins the nomination...

IDK about a general election at this point. I did read where HillDawg lost about 20% of the woman's support recently. Not sure if that translates to them moving to Sanders. Sanders is also picking up the millennials which have not really turned up for elections before. That is another interesting facet to watch

 

[JughedJones]

feel

tha'

Bern

 

[JughedJones]

I'm creating a Bernie Sanders trading card game.

It will be like Magic the Gathering, but with politics.

Superstructures and the Proletariat will be Mana.

You get the idea.

 

[GoIrish41]

...that makes me feel better about people. We'll see what happens...will those people who went to Sanders still pull the lever for Hills if she wins the nomination...

Depends on what alternative is available. Will it be the racist loud mouth who offers vague proclamations about how terrific he will fix things or the failed executive who misrepresents her business record or the inexperienced surgeon who makes crazy analogies? If so, be ready for President Hillary!

 

[JughedJones]

Depends on what alternative is available. Will it be the racist loud mouth who offers vague proclamations about how terrific he will fix things or the failed executive who misrepresents her business record or the inexperienced surgeon who makes crazy analogies? If so, bet ready for President Hillary!

I love this guy.

 

[phgreek]

Depends on what alternative is available. Will it be the racist loud mouth who offers vague proclamations about how terrific he will fix things or the failed executive who misrepresents her business record or the inexperienced surgeon who makes crazy analogies? If so, be ready for President Hillary!

I do like Fiorina far more than the other "outsiders" on the R side, and I think the issues you refer to are still in doubt, and largely up for interpretation. Not so with Mrs. Clinton. IMHO, in the event of Fiorina vs. Clinton, you will have to embrace bias which allows you to look past quite a bit which you would not ignore in your own life...would you look past Mrs. Clinton's transgressions if she were your financial Advisor, Lawyer, Cleaning Lady, Down Spout Cleaner, Dog Walker...????

 

[ACamp1900]

Sounds like Walker is out...

 

[Cackalacky]

I'm creating a Bernie Sanders trading card game.

It will be like Magic the Gathering, but with politics.

Superstructures and the Proletariat will be Mana.

You get the idea.

Dungeon Master Mao?

 

[brick4956]

<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="1lZ6TO7"><a href="//imgur.com/1lZ6TO7">View post on imgur.com</a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

#FeelTheBern

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

[le sigh].... which question is that?

I was in a wedding this weekend and out of town for a few days.

Which option will cost the US more in the long run: building a wall or continuing on this path we've been on for decades?

 

[Cackalacky]

There are some gnarly skeletons popping up for Fiorina. Selling HP cpus and printers to Iran through a Dubai based subsidiary violating the embargo...Fiorina's HP Earned Millions From Sales in Iran - Bloomberg View

SCANDAL: Carly Fiorina Made Millions In Iran During Embargo, Bribed Russian Officials

 

[GoIrish41]

I do like Fiorina far more than the other "outsiders" on the R side, and I think the issues you refer to are still in doubt, and largely up for interpretation. Not so with Mrs. Clinton. IMHO, in the event of Fiorina vs. Clinton, you will have to embrace bias which allows you to look past quite a bit which you would not ignore in your own life...would you look past Mrs. Clinton's transgressions if she were your financial Advisor, Lawyer, Cleaning Lady, Down Spout Cleaner, Dog Walker...????

I am not a Clinton supporter and I am with you on her shady character. So if R's are going to do something productive with her apparent untrustworthiness (you are far more convinced of her obvious "guilt" than I) and nominate a sound and reasonable candidate -- not a GOP 4 of Trump, Carson, Cruz, and Fiorina (who was fired for good reason) and her highly questionable business record. If you guys hate Hillary so much, pick a candidate who might actually beat her with ideas that people actually can get behind. The R's want to beat on progressives about Hillary but are too stubborn to seize the opportunity to beat her. It is a humorous thing to watch people get so spun up about it and then support nut jobs and incompetents as the alternative.