2016 Presidential Horse Race

[RDU Irish]

http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

I think that stat proves my point.

There are countless idiots out there that do countless stupid things. This includes doing stupid things with kids that could potentially mess them up. Everyone has done something stupid w/r/t their kids, me included. But often these stupid things have a negligible impact on them and/or are incredibly difficult to control.

But this thing is neither. It isn't difficult to control given that the overwhelming number of children are born in hospitals and not getting the vaccines put them at a health risk.

Kids are put in a situation where they rely enough on the parent lottery when it comes to educational focus, the emotional stability of the family, etc. Why should we, as Americans, allow this lottery to extend to the likelihood of catching entirely preventable disease?

http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

Your concerns are misdirected. The real threat to our society are backyard swimming pools. "Drowning is responsible for more deaths among children 1-4 than any other cause except congenital anomalies (birth defects)." WE NEED TO OUTLAW SWIMMING POOLS STAT!

 

[wizards8507]

http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

Your concerns are misdirected. The real threat to our society are backyard swimming pools. "Drowning is responsible for more deaths among children 1-4 than any other cause except congenital anomalies (birth defects)." WE NEED TO OUTLAW SWIMMING POOL STAT!

Yup, and it's not just your OWN kid who can drown in your swimming pool. Think of all the neighbor kids! There's no vaccine against drowning.

 

[pkt77242]

Yup, and it's not just your OWN kid who can drown in your swimming pool. Think of all the neighbor kids! There's no vaccine against drowning.

That is why many areas here in AZ have passed laws that require either a fence around the pool with a gate that is difficult to open and/or a sliding glass door whose lock is too high for children to reach and shuts behind you so that it can't be left open. Shockingly many states are starting to pass laws to lower that number (just as we have laws requiring children's car seats, etc). Geez now if we could only do that with vaccines.

 

[GATTACA!]

http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Water-Safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

Your concerns are misdirected. The real threat to our society are backyard swimming pools. "Drowning is responsible for more deaths among children 1-4 than any other cause except congenital anomalies (birth defects)." WE NEED TO OUTLAW SWIMMING POOLS STAT!

Yup, and it's not just your OWN kid who can drown in your swimming pool. Think of all the neighbor kids! There's no vaccine against drowning.

Nice example of deductio ad absurdum.

 

[RDU Irish]

Get your Measles vaccine and you are almost 100% guaranteed not to get a disease that killed 145,000 people globally in 2013.

From the WHO
"Global measles deaths have decreased by 75% from an estimated 544 200 in 2000 to 145 700 in 2013."

 

[Polish Leppy 22]

Ben Carson also believes in creationism and is a Seventh Day Adventist so I'll hold back on listening to him.

You choose to ignore the country' top neurosurgeon's medical opinion because of his religious beliefs? Get a grip.

 

[DonnieNarco]

You choose to ignore the country' top neurosurgeon's medical opinion because of his religious beliefs? Get a grip.

His medical opinion that illegal immigrants are causing the measles outbreak? That's not a medical opinion.

 

[RDU Irish]

That is why many areas here in AZ have passed laws that require either a fence around the pool with a gate that is difficult to open and/or a sliding glass door whose lock is too high for children to reach and shuts behind you so that it can't be left open. Shockingly many states are starting to pass laws to lower that number (just as we have laws requiring children's car seats, etc). Geez now if we could only do that with vaccines.

Pretty much every place has those laws. Yet kids still drown. Wouldn't it be easier to just outlaw swimming pools? Why take the risk?

 

[RDU Irish]

Nice example of deductio ad absurdum.

I have never considered a home with a swimming pool because of the risk. I also considered whether neighbors had pools or not because, well, kids will be kids. My choice, not Uncle Sam.

 

[pkt77242]

Get your Measles vaccine and you are almost 100% guaranteed not to get a disease that killed 145,000 people globally in 2013.

From the WHO
"Global measles deaths have decreased by 75% from an estimated 544 200 in 2000 to 145 700 in 2013."

True, but what happens to infants? I have a 3 month old, she can't get the vaccine and since she is so young if she were to get measles she would have an increased risk for complications. My wife works in Pediatric Oncology where many of the kids can not get vaccinated due to being immuno compromised. The truth is that you have to have a high enough vaccination rate to provide herd immunity to those who can't be vaccinated (either because of age or medical reason) and the sad fact is that the rate has fallen to low in parts of the US to provide that herd immunity to the people who need it most.

 

[GATTACA!]

Pretty much every place has those laws. Yet kids still drown. Wouldn't it be easier to just outlaw swimming pools? Why take the risk?

Because you can't catch drowning. If you chose to have a pool you know you or anyone you let swim in your pool may die, if you chose not to vaccinate your child someone else you come into contact with may die because of your choice. You can control who swims in your pool, you cant control who you come into contact with out in the world.

Like i said above this is an absurd extension of the argument.

 

[pkt77242]

Pretty much every place has those laws. Yet kids still drown. Wouldn't it be easier to just outlaw swimming pools? Why take the risk?

I am all for it, sign me up, unfortunately we would also have to get rid of lakes and rivers as well. Might as well build a huge wall around the ocean too.

Look we have plenty of public health laws requiring people to do things such as wear a seatbelt or that children have to be in appropriate car seats.

 

[RDU Irish]

Call your daycare and find out the vaccination rate. Consider an in home nanny if it is that much of a concern. Yes, stupid people put you at risk. Just like driving at midnight on a Friday or Saturday night.

We supposedly have these laws in place yet they are grossly inadequate for your desired level of government mandates. As a result, you are at risk. Better to be informed and logical about it than assume everyone is doing what any one with half a brain would do.

 

[GATTACA!]

I have never considered a home with a swimming pool because of the risk. I also considered whether neighbors had pools or not because, well, kids will be kids. My choice, not Uncle Sam.

But if your neighbor did chose to buy a pool you couldn't accidentally die because of it! If you or your children swam in the pool you would have made the decision to risk drowning. You cant chose to avoid measles if someone else in the supermarket has measles. You can get vaccinated but that does not give you 100% immunity.

 

[RDU Irish]

I am all for it, sign me up, unfortunately we would also have to get rid of lakes and rivers as well. Might as well build a huge wall around the ocean too.

Look we have plenty of public health laws requiring people to do things such as wear a seatbelt or that children have to be in appropriate car seats.

And people ignore those laws all the time. Look around next time you drive and see how many little kids are sitting in the front seat of a cars.

Just heard from our daycare. 1 out of 109 kids has a religious waiver. Pretty surprised that is all. I will laugh if our Catholic school has a higher percentage than that.

 

[GATTACA!]

And people ignore those laws all the time. Look around next time you drive and see how many little kids are sitting in the front seat of a cars.

Just heard from our daycare. 1 out of 109 kids has a religious waiver. Pretty surprised that is all. I will laugh if our Catholic school has a higher percentage than that.

You're right forget DUI's, gun safety laws, and traffic laws. People will just break them anyways right?

Some people will always break the rules, thats no reason not to make rules.

 

[connor_in]

But if your neighbor did chose to buy a pool you couldn't accidentally die because of it! If you or your children swam in the pool you would have made the decision to risk drowning. You cant chose to avoid measles if someone else in the supermarket has measles. You can get vaccinated but that does not give you 100% immunity.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/K7qEgs1BHa0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[pkt77242]

Call your daycare and find out the vaccination rate. Consider an in home nanny if it is that much of a concern. Yes, stupid people put you at risk. Just like driving at midnight on a Friday or Saturday night.

We supposedly have these laws in place yet they are grossly inadequate for your desired level of government mandates. As a result, you are at risk. Better to be informed and logical about it than assume everyone is doing what any one with half a brain would do.

Do you know anything about measles? My kids daycare is 100% vaccinated, as is my Pediatricians office (they won't take unvaccinated children unless they have a medical reason such as cancer). The problem is restaurants, grocery stores, parks etc are still a huge problem. Measles last for a long damn time (as in hours, not minutes). You go out to eat and sit down at a table if the previous patron sneezed on it you can get measles. If you are sitting at the table next to them you can get it. About 90% of people who are unvaccinated and come into contact with it get it. It is about as contagious of a disease as it comes. The problem is that we don't remember just how quickly the disease spreads the disease is and how much harm it can cause thus we take it lightly.

 

[RDU Irish]

You're right forget DUI's, gun safety laws, and traffic laws. People will just break them anyways right?

Some people will always break the rules, thats no reason not to make rules.

You obviously missed the part where I said sue the pants off of idiots that don't get vaccines and spread sh!t around. Make medical liability a part of health insurance and jack the rates up on those morons.

 

[pkt77242]

And people ignore those laws all the time. Look around next time you drive and see how many little kids are sitting in the front seat of a cars.

Just heard from our daycare. 1 out of 109 kids has a religious waiver. Pretty surprised that is all. I will laugh if our Catholic school has a higher percentage than that.

And? Just because people ignore them doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a law or that it is a bad law. What is your point? That there is a bunch of shitty parents out there? Nobody is going to disagree with that.

 

[GATTACA!]

You obviously missed the part where I said sue the pants off of idiots that don't get vaccines and spread sh!t around. Make medical liability a part of health insurance and jack the rates up on those morons.

You clearly have no understanding of how any of this works.

It's not as simple as one death here or there. If the % of people vaccinated against these diseases drops below a certain point than the entire system falls apart. Suing a few of these individuals won't help when a mass outbreak occurs and it's not a few children it's 100's. There are over 21 strains of measles alone. These diseases are constantly evolving. If a strain were to evolve that is not covered by the vaccine we are currently using we are in serious trouble.

 

[Corry]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>University of California will require measles vaccination for incoming students, school announces - <a href="https://twitter.com/latimes">@latimes</a> <a href="http://t.co/CI4dA5OfFW">http://t.co/CI4dA5OfFW</a></p>— Breaking News (@BreakingNews) <a href="https://twitter.com/BreakingNews/status/563829465399431168">February 6, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[DonnieNarco]

This country will just fall apart if we don't give infants the freedom to get measles.

"Vaccines are good." -Joseph Stalin

 

[GATTACA!]

 

[MartyIrish]

His medical opinion that illegal immigrants are causing the measles outbreak? That's not a medical opinion.

And there is no proof it wasn't an illegal immigrant or vistor....So his opinion is as valid as any

 

[MartyIrish]

And? Just because people ignore them doesn't mean that there shouldn't be a law or that it is a bad law. What is your point? That there is a bunch of shitty parents out there? Nobody is going to disagree with that.

So you admit you give government power, knowing it's not going to make a difference, to make you feel safe?



By the way, guys, again....644 cases in 2014. Country over 300 million. Measles is NOT, in any universe, a problem.

I think more people died of shark attacks in the US last year, than from measles.

I'm not trivializing the disease, but let's take a step back....

 

[MartyIrish]

You're right forget DUI's, gun safety laws, and traffic laws. People will just break them anyways right?

Some people will always break the rules, thats no reason not to make rules.

Again...you allow government to have more and more reach, so you feel safe from laws that don't work.

 

[RDU Irish]

And the vaccine is incredibly effective, if you get it you are virtually without risk of getting it. The risk of "the whole system falling apart" is real for other vaccines that are more like 80% effective.

I encourage everyone to call their schools, daycares and pediatricians to confirm their vaccination rates and make it know that your choice to do business with them is directly tied to their choice to put up with non-medical vaccine waivers. People have the right to be stupid and I have a right to call them out and refuse to associate with them.

 

[connor_in]

Discussion Question:

Barack Obama announces for presidentail run. Media talk about how great it would be to have a black/african-american as president.

HRC announces for presidential run. Media talk about how great it would be to have a woman as president.

Ted Cruz announces for presidential run. Media NOT talking about how great it would be to have a latino as president.


Bonus point:

NYT refers to latino presidential candidate as uppity. Media firestorm about racism ensues...not. Writer does put in "correction" saying he "goofed." But still hard to find any mention of this going anywhere.

 

[GoIrish41]

Discussion Question:

Barack Obama announces for presidentail run. Media talk about how great it would be to have a black/african-american as president.

HRC announces for presidential run. Media talk about how great it would be to have a woman as president.

Ted Cruz announces for presidential run. Media NOT talking about how great it would be to have a latino as president.


Bonus point:

NYT refers to latino presidential candidate as uppity. Media firestorm about racism ensues...not. Writer does put in "correction" saying he "goofed." But still hard to find any mention of this going anywhere.

Cruz is not a legitimate contender for president. How much media attention do you think he should get? The same amount that Bill Richardson got when he ran for president in
2008? Richardson was crowded out of the race by Obama and Hillary, and nobody gave serious consideration to how great it would be to have a latino as president back then either ... because nobody thought he was ever going to be president. Cruz has a much worse chance of becoming president than Richardson ever did.