Coaches Poll Top 25 (ND #7)

[BleedBlueGold]

How is usc a pretender?

They dismantled Fresno St. and won on the road at Stanford. I'm not claiming they are a threat to win it all, but I'd say their 2 wins this season are probably about as impressive as anybody else's 2 wins so far.

I think "pretender" in terms of ranking. I personally believe they're Top 25, but not Top 10. They're benefiting from their preseason ranking along with beating a Stanford team that played absolutely terrible. Credit USC for getting the win, but like T Town said, it was an unimpressive win in my eyes and I don't think they're a Top 10 team right now.

 

[irishog77]

Because Stanford isn't the Stanford of the past few years. And even at that, they did much more to lose the game than USC did to win. Credit to USC for getting the win at a usually tough place to play. In the end, neither USC or Stanford was impressive to me at all. Doesn't mean they won't get better... I think they will. But it's gonna take much more than either showed Saturday to run with the big dogs this season.

I agree with that. And I think injuries and attrition will catch up to usc. But it's impossible to know that for sure. Maybe Stanford runs the table from here on out. Maybe usc won't lose any players.

With the small sample size we have so far in this season, usc has been as impressive as any other team. I think it's fine to give sc any high ranking after 2 weeks, then adjust accordingly if and when they decline.

 

[phork]

2 games can't show anything definitive. Rice could turn out to be a 11-1 team, Michigan could be a 3-9 team. Just can't tell until mid season.

 

[irishog77]

I think "pretender" in terms of ranking. I personally believe they're Top 25, but not Top 10. They're benefiting from their preseason ranking along with beating a Stanford team that played absolutely terrible. Credit USC for getting the win, but like T Town said, it was an unimpressive win in my eyes and I don't think they're a Top 10 team right now.

Ok, but my original point remains-- what team(s) have 2 better wins than usc's 2 wins so far? The list is realllly short.

 

[irishog77]

2 games can't show anything definitive. Rice could turn out to be a 11-1 team, Michigan could be a 3-9 team. Just can't tell until mid season.

I get that. But this is a thread about the current poll. We're debating the current poll. Your argument falls more into the category of "Early Season Polls-- What's the Point?" That is a whole other argument to begin with (and a worthy discussion in its own right).

But if we're actually discussing the poll after 2 weeks, then I don't think there's any problem with usc having a high ranking.

 

[BobD]

Rice will probably be 11-1, we are that good. Michigan will go unbeaten for the rest of the year too.

 

[T Town Tommy]

I agree with that. And I think injuries and attrition will catch up to usc. But it's impossible to know that for sure. Maybe Stanford runs the table from here on out. Maybe usc won't lose any players.

With the small sample size we have so far in this season, usc has been as impressive as any other team. I think it's fine to give sc any high ranking after 2 weeks, then adjust accordingly if and when they decline.

I guess my original "pretender" statement reflects more about where each is currently ranked. Both will get better... how much depends on several factors.

I could have threw several other teams in there as pretenders right now as we really don't know at this point who appears to be good enough to make it to the four team playoff. In another month, we should start seeing a few teams emerge as legitimate contenders.

 

[Irish Insanity]

Rice will probably be 11-1, we are that good. Michigan will go unbeaten for the rest of the year too.

Doesn't Rice play A&M next?

 

[MNIrishman]

Doesn't Rice play A&M next?

Yeah... 11-1 is unlikely, but wouldn't it be sweeettt

 

[aubeirish]

Because Stanford isn't the Stanford of the past few years. And even at that, they did much more to lose the game than USC did to win. Credit to USC for getting the win at a usually tough place to play. In the end, neither USC or Stanford was impressive to me at all. Doesn't mean they won't get better... I think they will. But it's gonna take much more than either showed Saturday to run with the big dogs this season.

No doubt that the football team plays tough, but I have been to Stanford for a game and it is not such a hostile atmosphere. In fact, I bet there was just as many USC fans as Stanford's. When ND plays there, the stadium is almost split 50/50. Furthermore, their fans are packed with Asians and Indians students and alums whom are not exactly the fiercest of football fans.

 

[wizards8507]

Okay I'm a little late to the party but how on God's green Earth is FSU #1? They scraped by OSU and then beat CITADEL by 25!? Are you kidding me coaches and media? Schools as or more impressive than FSU through two weeks:

Notre Dame
Oregon
Alabama
Oklahoma
Auburn
Georgia
A&M
Baylor
USC
LSU
UCLA (barely)
Ole Miss
Arizona State
Virginia Tech
Kansas State (barely)
Missouri
Louisville
BYU
Pitt
Georgia Tech
Duke
North Carolina

I didn't realize this list would be so long so I'm giving up. Seriously though, WTF?

 

[T Town Tommy]

No doubt that the football team plays tough, but I have been to Stanford for a game and it is not such a hostile atmosphere. In fact, I bet there was just as many USC fans as Stanford's. When ND plays there, the stadium is almost split 50/50. Furthermore, their fans are packed with Asians and Indians students and alums whom are not exactly the fiercest of football fans.

Agree. Maybe should have said "win" instead of play. And there were a lot of USC fans there Saturday it looked like on tv. I actually cheered for USC in this one as I don't care for Shaw. He is a really good coach but he runs his mouth a little too much about other conferences, teams, etc. Something tells me he may be a little quieter this season.

 

[irishog77]

KSU, North Carolina, UCLA, and LSU have been as or more impressive than FSU?

 

[Irish#1]

No doubt that the football team plays tough, but I have been to Stanford for a game and it is not such a hostile atmosphere. In fact, I bet there was just as many USC fans as Stanford's. When ND plays there, the stadium is almost split 50/50. Furthermore, their fans are packed with Asians and Indians students and alums whom are not exactly the fiercest of football fans.

I watched that game. There were a lot of empty seats and there were plenty of USC fans at the game. Regardless, both teams looked sloppy and bad. We would have beat either of them Saturday, home or on the road.

 

[wizards8507]

KSU, North Carolina, UCLA, and LSU have been as or more impressive than FSU?

K State - 55-16 over Stephen F. Austin, 32-28 over Iowa State
Blowout cupcake, scrape by mediocre school.

North Carolina - 56-29 over Liberty, 31-27 over SDSU
Blowout cupcake, scrape by mediocre school.

UCLA - 28-20 over Virginia, 42-35 over Memphis
Scrape by two mediocre schools.

LSU - 28-24 over Wisconsin, 56-0 over Sam Houston
Scrape by mediocre school, blowout cupcake.

Yes, I'd say each of those is about as good as 37-31 over Oklahoma State and 37-12 over Citadel.

 

[GowerND11]

K State - 55-16 over Stephen F. Austin, 32-28 over Iowa State
Blowout cupcake, scrape by mediocre school.

North Carolina - 56-29 over Liberty, 31-27 over SDSU
Blowout cupcake, scrape by mediocre school.

UCLA - 28-20 over Virginia, 42-35 over Memphis
Scrape by two mediocre schools.

LSU - 28-24 over Wisconsin, 56-0 over Sam Houston
Scrape by mediocre school, blowout cupcake.

Yes, I'd say each of those is about as good as 37-31 over Oklahoma State and 37-12 over Citadel.

But UNC was losing at halftime...

 

[wizards8507]

But UNC was losing at halftime...

My point isn't "UNC should be #1," it's "wtf has Florida State done?"

 

[NCDomer]

Drew Sharp from Detroit Free Press didn't rank ND lol.

I've looked over all of the individual rankings. I think almost everyone had us ranked between 9th and 16th with most being between 9th and 14th. 11th seems right. Drew Sharp is a classic B1G hater, so beating UM doesn't mean anything to him and last week just validated his B1G trolling. MSU is the only B1G team he has ranked, and he probably puts ND in the same camp as B1G teams.

Harold Gutmann had ND 17th and somehow UCLA 12th. The AP Top 25 Poll | College Football

Jim Polzin has us 20th just behind his beloved Wisco. For whatever reason he has UCLA 9th and KSU 17th. No BYU either, which doesn't make any sense. The AP Top 25 Poll | College Football

Scott Wolf has us 18th, but I have fewer gripes with his ranking. He probably thinks UM blows and is waiting for ND to play better competition. The AP Top 25 Poll | College Football

BYU is screwed far more than anyone else in these polls. They have far more impressive wins than some of the ranked teams, which have struggled.

 

[Irishnuke]

My point isn't "UNC should be #1," it's "wtf has Florida State done?"

Defending national champions. Haven't lost yet. They should be #1 until they lose.

 

[wizards8507]

Defending national champions. Haven't lost yet. They should be #1 until they lose.

Bullshit. That's the criteria they do use, not the criteria they should use. Last season should have absolutely zero impact on this year's rankings. That's like spotting the Red Sox ten games in the American League East because they won the World Series last year. Otherwise you run into crap like this:

BYU is screwed far more than anyone else in these polls. They have far more impressive wins than some of the ranked teams, which have struggled.

 

[greyhammer90]

My point isn't "UNC should be #1," it's "wtf has Florida State done?"

If ND was defending national champions, didn't lose many important players, and hadn't lost yet would you really be ok with them being bumped down?

 

[wizards8507]

If ND was defending national champions, didn't lose many important players, and hadn't lost yet would you really be ok with them being bumped down?

My anger would be with ND for playing CITADEL. Fcking Citadel? I can't be the only one who has a problem with a system rewarding those games. It's not about "bumping them down" for winning, it's about bumping the other teams UP for winning better.

EDIT: Not just Citadel, but Citadel by 25 points. If they had won 84-3 I'd probably have a different opinion.

 

[IrishFaninTX]

Defending national champions. Haven't lost yet. They should be #1 until they lose.

If that is the case then shouldn't we have finished 2012 #2? We were #1 and only lost to the national champs. But we dropped several spots and were not even ranked in the top 10 at the beginning of 2013 (and rightfully so).

 

[Irish Insanity]

Oregon is by far the best team in the county right now. Hell Alabama at 2 is even a question mark for me. They struggled against WV and have a rotational QB situation.

 

[Irishnuke]

If that is the case then shouldn't we have finished 2012 #2? We were #1 and only lost to the national champs. But we dropped several spots and were not even ranked in the top 10 at the beginning of 2013 (and rightfully so).

No. Defending national champs get to keep their spot. We got exposed that game. That's why we dropped in the rankings the next year. If FSU loses, they'll drop. If they don't lose, they'll finish the season #1 again.

 

[Cackalacky]

My anger would be with ND for playing CITADEL. Fcking Citadel? I can't be the only one who has a problem with a system rewarding those games. It's not about "bumping them down" for winning, it's about bumping the other teams UP for winning better.

EDIT: Not just Citadel, but Citadel by 25 points. If they had won 84-3 I'd probably have a different opinion.

Citadel player faces discipline, apologizes for cut-blocking comment - Post and Courier
Citadel injured 3 of their big guys with cut blocks. Forgive FSU for not trying so hard after that. Fisher said he does not want to play anymore cut block teams. So per the usual, a little more in depth viewing of the situation renders your standard outrage moot.

And for the record, Citadel has no business playing FSU or any other of the big universities.

 

[wizards8507]

No. Defending national champs get to keep their spot. We got exposed that game. That's why we dropped in the rankings the next year. If FSU loses, they'll drop. If they don't lose, they'll finish the season #1 again.

So, in a hypothetical season where FSU wins every game by one point and Notre Dame wins every game by 30+, you're okay with FSU being #1?

 

[wizards8507]

Citadel injured 3 of their big guys with cut blocks. Forgive FSU for not trying so hard after that. Fisher said he does not want to play anymore cut block teams.

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. Navy cut blocks left and right and we still hung 50 on them in 2012. Margin of victory has more to do with quality than style.

 

[Irishnuke]

Bullshit. That's the criteria they do use, not the criteria they should use. Last season should have absolutely zero impact on this year's rankings. That's like spotting the Red Sox ten games in the American League East because they won the World Series last year. Otherwise you run into crap like this:

No. That comparison is totally f ucking stupid. Seriously dumb. Completely different sports. There's no voting on which team is in first place in baseball. Why am I even explaining this? It's such a ridiculous comparison that I quit. I'm done.

 

[wizards8507]

No. That comparison is totally f ucking stupid. Seriously dumb. Completely different sports. There's no voting on which team is in first place in baseball. Why am I even explaining this? It's such a ridiculous comparison that I quit. I'm done.

There are 128 FBS programs playing 12 games each, so teams will have similar records at the end of the season. That's just the math. Quality of opponent and margin of victory are all that separate the top college football teams from one another so they're as important as actual wins and losses are in baseball. You can't just ignore those two things (quality of opponent and margin of victory) because of something FSU did last season.