Malaysian Airlines Flight Down in Ukraine

ResLife Hero

Well-known member
Messages
6,737
Reaction score
190
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BREAKING?src=hash">#BREAKING</a>: <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MH17?src=hash">#MH17</a> black boxes to be handed over to Malaysian authorities at 9 pm Ukraine time: Malaysian PM</p>— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) <a href="https://twitter.com/Reuters/statuses/491256289666678785">July 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

ResLife Hero

Well-known member
Messages
6,737
Reaction score
190
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Bodies of 282 victims of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MH17?src=hash">#MH17</a> crash to be handed over to Dutch authorities: Malaysian PM</p>— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) <a href="https://twitter.com/Reuters/statuses/491257522318495744">July 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'm glad that neither Ukraine nor Russia will be handling the bodies or black boxes.
 

Grahambo

Varsity Club Member
Messages
4,259
Reaction score
2,606
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BREAKING?src=hash">#BREAKING</a>: <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MH17?src=hash">#MH17</a> black boxes to be handed over to Malaysian authorities at 9 pm Ukraine time: Malaysian PM</p>— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) <a href="https://twitter.com/Reuters/statuses/491256289666678785">July 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Bodies of 282 victims of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MH17?src=hash">#MH17</a> crash to be handed over to Dutch authorities: Malaysian PM</p>— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) <a href="https://twitter.com/Reuters/statuses/491257522318495744">July 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'm glad that neither Ukraine nor Russia will be handling the bodies or black boxes.

So much damage has already been done to the site. Not that you really need to investigate but still...
 

Whiskeyjack

Mittens Margaritas Ante Porcos
Staff member
Messages
20,894
Reaction score
8,126
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Bodies of 282 victims of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MH17?src=hash">#MH17</a> crash to be handed over to Dutch authorities: Malaysian PM</p>— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) <a href="https://twitter.com/Reuters/statuses/491257522318495744">July 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I'm glad that neither Ukraine nor Russia will be handling the bodies or black boxes.

I'm glad some deference is being shown to the Dutch government here, as well. Its people suffered the most (by far) in this incident. Would be nice to see less American rhetoric here in place of a more assertive Netherlands/ EU.
 
C

Cackalacky

Guest
How does Putin benefit form this? Worse case scenario... it is an extremely unfortunate "mistake" by the rebels.

The other side also has significant answers to provide. The first and most important is why did they deploy the BUK anti-aircraft missile system near or in separatist territory a day before the incident?

He benefits from creating a NATO buffer Zone in a very important area. Crimea, Donetsk among others are important economic and energy locations for Ukraine. It also destabilizes a de-facto NATO country.

This is all really a big GTFO card to NATO, IMO anyway.
 
C

Cackalacky

Guest
The US wanting the Ukraine to be de-facto part of Nato is what started this whole mess!!! Not to mention helping bring down a democratically elected government.

Putin is not a good human being but he is not an idiot. He has far more to lose than gain from this if he is somehow involved. WhiskeyJack a couple of post ahead hit the nail on the head... the EU has been unsupportive of the sanctions against Russia... perception can make that change quickly. One interesting fact is how dependant the Dutch economy has become on Russian gas.

I did not claim it started this mess. But NATOs encroachment upon Russia's Western Flank has a lot to do with it. The Ukraine, particularly Crimea has significant historical, geopolitical and economic importance to Russia.
 

BobbyMac

Staff & Stuff
Staff member
Messages
33,950
Reaction score
9,294
I did not claim it started this mess. But NATOs encroachment upon Russia's Western Flank has a lot to do with it. The Ukraine, particularly Crimea has significant historical, geopolitical and economic importance to Russia.

Crimea was all about the warm water port in Sevastopol. The fact that there is a large ethnic Russian population was only significant in that is gives them a reason other than military planning.
 

ResLife Hero

Well-known member
Messages
6,737
Reaction score
190
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>MORE: UN resolution also demands unimpeded international access to the plane crash site in Ukraine: <a href="http://t.co/1ZrCouKX36">http://t.co/1ZrCouKX36</a></p>— The Associated Press (@AP) <a href="https://twitter.com/AP/statuses/491302632049627136">July 21, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

GoIrish41

Paterfamilius
Messages
9,929
Reaction score
2,119
Wow... what he is saying is that the US has very little credibility left and that we should wait for facts to come out before pointing any fingers.

Agree that is his argument but he is making the argument in a way that itself lacks credibility. I agree with his general point but disagree with most of his steps to get there.
 

GoIrish41

Paterfamilius
Messages
9,929
Reaction score
2,119
the United Nations Human Rights Council confirmed that the videos and photos purporting to show the victims of a chemical attack near Damascus were indeed fabricated...

That may be true but there is ample evidenc that he used chem weapons. Soil and air tests were conducted at my laboratory.
 
C

Cackalacky

Guest
Ron Paul saying better than I could ever...


The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity : What the Media Won’t Report About Malaysian Airlines Flight MH17


Just days after the tragic crash of a Malaysian Airlines flight over eastern Ukraine, Western politicians and media joined together to gain the maximum propaganda value from the disaster. It had to be Russia; it had to be Putin, they said. President Obama held a press conference to claim – even before an investigation – that it was pro-Russian rebels in the region who were responsible. His ambassador to the UN, Samantha Power, did the same at the UN Security Council – just one day after the crash!

While western media outlets rush to repeat government propaganda on the event, there are a few things they will not report.

They will not report that the crisis in Ukraine started late last year, when EU and US-supported protesters plotted the overthrow of the elected Ukrainian president, Viktor Yanukovych. Without US-sponsored “regime change,” it is unlikely that hundreds would have been killed in the unrest that followed. Nor would the Malaysian Airlines crash have happened.

The media has reported that the plane must have been shot down by Russian forces or Russian-backed separatists, because the missile that reportedly brought down the plane was Russian made. But they will not report that the Ukrainian government also uses the exact same Russian-made weapons.

They will not report that the post-coup government in Kiev has, according to OSCE monitors, killed 250 people in the breakaway Lugansk region since June, including 20 killed as government forces bombed the city center the day after the plane crash! Most of these are civilians and together they roughly equal the number killed in the plane crash. By contrast, Russia has killed no one in Ukraine, and the separatists have struck largely military, not civilian, targets.

They will not report that the US has strongly backed the Ukrainian government in these attacks on civilians, which a State Department spokeswoman called “measured and moderate.”

They will not report that neither Russia nor the separatists in eastern Ukraine have anything to gain but everything to lose by shooting down a passenger liner full of civilians.

They will not report that the Ukrainian government has much to gain by pinning the attack on Russia, and that the Ukrainian prime minister has already expressed his pleasure that Russia is being blamed for the attack.

They will not report that the missile that apparently shot down the plane was from a sophisticated surface-to-air missile system that requires a good deal of training that the separatists do not have.

They will not report that the separatists in eastern Ukraine have inflicted considerable losses on the Ukrainian government in the week before the plane was downed.

They will not report how similar this is to last summer’s US claim that the Assad government in Syria had used poison gas against civilians in Ghouta. Assad was also gaining the upper hand in his struggle with US-backed rebels and the US claimed that the attack came from Syrian government positions. Then, US claims led us to the brink of another war in the Middle East. At the last minute public opposition forced Obama to back down – and we have learned since then that US claims about the gas attack were false.

Of course it is entirely possible that the Obama administration and the US media has it right this time, and Russia or the separatists in eastern Ukraine either purposely or inadvertently shot down this aircraft. The real point is, it's very difficult to get accurate information so everybody engages in propaganda. At this point it would be unwise to say the Russians did it, the Ukrainian government did it, or the rebels did it. Is it so hard to simply demand a real investigation?

Well shiiittt..... There goes my Paul/Warren presidential ticket. LMAO.
 

ResLife Hero

Well-known member
Messages
6,737
Reaction score
190
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Ukraine war crimes trials a step closer after Red Cross assessment <a href="http://t.co/bkAyhXyZtU">http://t.co/bkAyhXyZtU</a> via <a href="https://twitter.com/Reuters">@reuters</a></p>— Pierre Briançon (@pierrebri) <a href="https://twitter.com/pierrebri/statuses/491596717154762753">July 22, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

ResLife Hero

Well-known member
Messages
6,737
Reaction score
190
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>U.S. to reveal intelligence today that supports claims that missile that downed <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MH17?src=hash">#MH17</a> came from separatist-controlled area: State Dept.</p>— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) <a href="https://twitter.com/Reuters/statuses/491646364733169664">July 22, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

Sharknado21

New member
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Sanctions and other garbage wont to a thing to Putin. He is slowly trying to put the old soviet nations back together. If we continue to treat him like a spoiled child and not atleast draw a red line and say if you cross this there will be consequences he will continue. The rebels who shot the plane done are financed, armed and controlled by Putin any thought otherwise is incredibly naive.
 

kmoose

Banned
Messages
10,298
Reaction score
1,181

Speaking of jumping to conclusions... All the links that you provided say is that there is eyewitness testimony that it was the rebels who used the chemical weapons, not the government. I don't see one mention of any UN assertion that the pictures and videos of victims were fabricated.
 

ResLife Hero

Well-known member
Messages
6,737
Reaction score
190
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>BREAKING: US officials: Intel suggests Malaysia plane shot down by separatists, no link to Russia found.</p>— The Associated Press (@AP) <a href="https://twitter.com/AP/statuses/491689570602594305">July 22, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

ResLife Hero

Well-known member
Messages
6,737
Reaction score
190
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>VIDEO: Fists fly in Ukraine parliament over downed <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MH17?src=hash">#MH17</a>. <a href="http://t.co/PqJ9QhQlHk">http://t.co/PqJ9QhQlHk</a></p>— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) <a href="https://twitter.com/Reuters/statuses/491692256273768450">July 22, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

ResLife Hero

Well-known member
Messages
6,737
Reaction score
190
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>BREAKING: Dutch military plane carrying bodies from Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 crash lands in Eindhoven.</p>— The Associated Press (@AP) <a href="https://twitter.com/AP/statuses/491943480407883777">July 23, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

ndfi78

Well-known member
Messages
1,279
Reaction score
104
punctuation is your friend AP.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>CLARIFIES: Dutch military plane carrying Malaysia Airlines bodies lands in Eindhoven.</p>— The Associated Press (@AP) <a href="https://twitter.com/AP/statuses/491945631150514177">July 23, 2014</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

ResLife Hero

Well-known member
Messages
6,737
Reaction score
190
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>German government doesn't embrace call for Russia to lose 2018 World Cup <a href="http://t.co/3KogtxWkFN">http://t.co/3KogtxWkFN</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FIFA?src=hash">#FIFA</a></p>— AP Sports (@AP_Sports) <a href="https://twitter.com/AP_Sports/statuses/492017944940249088">July 23, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

ResLife Hero

Well-known member
Messages
6,737
Reaction score
190
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>PHOTOS: The remains of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MH17?src=hash">#MH17</a> victims arrive in the Netherlands. <a href="http://t.co/EuEEOnCQyg">http://t.co/EuEEOnCQyg</a> <a href="http://t.co/ZtBEvI1c0V">pic.twitter.com/ZtBEvI1c0V</a></p>— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) <a href="https://twitter.com/Reuters/statuses/492045495725215745">July 23, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 

ResLife Hero

Well-known member
Messages
6,737
Reaction score
190
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Russia says it will cooperate with the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/MH17?src=hash">#MH17</a> probe led by the Netherlands: <a href="http://t.co/R5pvBxY2V4">http://t.co/R5pvBxY2V4</a> <a href="http://t.co/ny5cYQpSrI">pic.twitter.com/ny5cYQpSrI</a></p>— Reuters Top News (@Reuters) <a href="https://twitter.com/Reuters/statuses/492307241664786432">July 24, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Top