Did you thank Willingham for today's beating?

[Irish Envy]

If not, you should. Here is Tyrone's stellar class of 2004, most of which have transferred, given up football or just flat out never performed. This is your junior class... This is supposed to be your group of guys that stepped up this year.

<TABLE class=basiclist id=page1tab style="WIDTH: 100%; 10px: " cellSpacing=0><TBODY id=tableSignedPage1 name="tableSignedPage1"><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Abdel Banda</TD><TD align=middle>LB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-2</TD><TD align=middle>215</TD><TD align=middle>4.5</TD><TD align=middle>5.3</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Morristown, NJ</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Darrin Bragg</TD><TD align=middle>QB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-1</TD><TD align=middle>190</TD><TD align=middle>4.5</TD><TD align=middle>5.2</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>San Jose, CA</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Justin Brown</TD><TD align=middle>DE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-4</TD><TD align=middle>225</TD><TD align=middle>4.7</TD><TD align=middle>5.3</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Forestville, MD</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Maurice Crum</TD><TD align=middle>LB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-1</TD><TD align=middle>215</TD><TD align=middle>4.6</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Tampa, FL</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Tregg Duerson</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>5-10</TD><TD align=middle>180</TD><TD align=middle>-</TD><TD align=middle>4.9</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Wilmette, IL</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Leo Ferrine</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-0</TD><TD align=middle>180</TD><TD align=middle>4.4</TD><TD align=middle>5.2</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Jersey City, NJ</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Justin Hoskins</TD><TD align=middle>RB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>5-11</TD><TD align=middle>190</TD><TD align=middle>4.4</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Grand Rapids, MI</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Chauncey Incarnato</TD><TD align=middle>OL</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-6</TD><TD align=middle>280</TD><TD align=middle>5</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Dover, OH</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Junior Jabbie</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-0</TD><TD align=middle>185</TD><TD align=middle>4.4</TD><TD align=middle>-</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Princeton, NJ</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>John Kadous</TD><TD align=middle>OL</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-7</TD><TD align=middle>310</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Tucson, AZ</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Terrail Lambert</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-0</TD><TD align=middle>185</TD><TD align=middle>4.43</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Ventura, CA</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Brandon Nicolas</TD><TD align=middle>DE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-5</TD><TD align=middle>260</TD><TD align=middle>4.86</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Santa Ana, CA</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Ronald Talley</TD><TD align=middle>DE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-3</TD><TD align=middle>233</TD><TD align=middle>4.76</TD><TD align=middle>5.5</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Detroit, MI</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Anthony Vernaglia</TD><TD align=middle>ATH</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-4</TD><TD align=middle>218</TD><TD align=middle>4.5</TD><TD align=middle>5.9</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Orange, CA</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Darius Walker</TD><TD align=middle>RB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>5-11</TD><TD align=middle>197</TD><TD align=middle>4.45</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Buford, GA</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>David Wolke</TD><TD align=middle>QB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-3</TD><TD align=middle>205</TD><TD align=middle>4.68</TD><TD align=middle>5.4</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Smyrna, TN</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[KMac151993]

I could do without everyone on that list.

 

[Irish Envy]

I could do without everyone on that list.

And we have for the most part considering Crum and Walker are the only players that have really materialized and been significant parts to our team. TWO KIDS. You cannot have only two kids realize their talent and potential.

 

[ACamp1900]

I could do without everyone on that list.

still love #3... but yeah, not much there to even begin to work with...

 

[guff]

Crum and Walker are the only players on that list. I can honestly say that I haven't heard of most them but I did see Vernaglia's picture on a half gallon milk.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

I disagree. I think there was enough talent on the field so that we could have been a lot more competitive. We just played a terrible game. I don't think Michigan is 27 points better than us and tbh, I don't think they are better than us at all in the first place. That's hard to say after such a big loss, but we got off to a horrible start in a series that is supposed to consist of incredibly close games. That knocked everything out of synch.

Did Ty's recruiting hurt us? Yeah, definitely, and we'll especially notice it next year.

 

[Irish Envy]

I disagree. I think there was enough talent on the field so that we could have been a lot more competitive. We just played a terrible game. I don't think Michigan is 27 points better than us and tbh, I don't think they are better than us at all in the first place. That's hard to say after such a big loss, but we got off to a horrible start in a series that is supposed to consist of incredibly close games. That knocked everything out of synch.

Did Ty's recruiting hurt us? Yeah, definitely, and we'll especially notice it next year.

Sorry, but you're off your rocker. If you think we are even in the same stratosphere talentwise from the front to the back of our roster as the Michigans, the USCs, the Texases of the World, I'm not sure what else I can tell you. We had three years of average to sub-par recruiting. THREE. One is enough to derail most programs, but we've had THREE.

The fact that we've got less talent but have been able to compete is a testament to the coaching that is being done in South Bend since Weis has stepped foot on this campus.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

I'll admit that there's a lot of problems with depth.. and that if a good recruiter like Weis had been around for a while longer, that that wouldn't be the case.. and that the starting positions would be a bit stronger.

As for 1st string talent, I think our only problems are at CB, LB, and Kicker...yes, I just named a colossal portion of our defense. But it seemed to me that our offense was the bigger part of the problem today.

And who is to blame for that? Can you question the talent of our receivers? Not really.. Our QB? Hell no. Our RB? Maybe. Our O-line? I think they played decent.

Yeah, our junior class sucks ass, but our senior class has really stepped up. We could be a lot better, though, so I agree to a great extent on that level.

But talent and depth are hardly the easiest targets on this team. Honestly, I think we just had an unbelievably shitty game; last week against Penn State, everything that could have gone in our favor did. And this week, the exact opposite happened. I can only describe it as karma.

 

[irishwavend]

Dude, our receivers are a huge question. Who is #4? That is sad that we don't have a number four, especially when Weis wants to go Empty and have 5 wideouts. Our O-line blew...and has blown quite a bit this season. 5 guys against 4 & you can't block them. I saw one play where our F'ing guard was supposed to go behind the tackle and block the outside blitzer & just decided to let the LB go unabated to Quinn. The line is incredibly talented/experienced, but just doesn't block. If they don't get on the ball, Latina may be looking for a new job.

 

[irish9331]

That is exactly what I have been saying. Everyone keeps talking about how he wins with Ty's players, but never about when they lose with the same guys.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

It is weird when you look at that class....and you only see 2 guys with a legitimate shot at the NFL.

 

[A2McGowan]

When the two teams were standing in a line at mid-field shielding each other from seeing the plays they were working on.........Michigan's size difference absolutely shocked me. They really had great depth and used it all day. Amongst a plethora of other things they did well. One last note, Asaph is a huge part of this team, and missing him was one of the reasons they completly abandoned the running game. Plus UM's D. Depth is an issue.

 

[Irish74]

It seems like this team cannot seriously start talking about National Champioships until 2008 maybe even 2009. I don't expect them to contend with a freshman QB, I don't care how good he is, because the rest of the team is going to be made up of freshman and sophmores as well. Plus the fact that we REALLY need to start getting some defensive studs into this program. I know Weis is supposed to be a genius, but he is not going to change the natural laws of football (offense puts fans in stands, defense & special teams wins championships).

 

[NDAlumSon]

The fact that we've got less talent but have been able to compete is a testament to the coaching that is being done in South Bend since Weis has stepped foot on this campus.

Props to you, Svo.

 

[Fighting_Irish9]

If not, you should. Here is Tyrone's stellar class of 2004, most of which have transferred, given up football or just flat out never performed. This is your junior class... This is supposed to be your group of guys that stepped up this year.

<TABLE class=basiclist id=page1tab style="WIDTH: 100%; 10px: " cellSpacing=0><TBODY id=tableSignedPage1 name="tableSignedPage1"><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Abdel Banda</TD><TD align=middle>LB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-2</TD><TD align=middle>215</TD><TD align=middle>4.5</TD><TD align=middle>5.3</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Morristown, NJ</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Darrin Bragg</TD><TD align=middle>QB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-1</TD><TD align=middle>190</TD><TD align=middle>4.5</TD><TD align=middle>5.2</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>San Jose, CA</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Justin Brown</TD><TD align=middle>DE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-4</TD><TD align=middle>225</TD><TD align=middle>4.7</TD><TD align=middle>5.3</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Forestville, MD</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Maurice Crum</TD><TD align=middle>LB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-1</TD><TD align=middle>215</TD><TD align=middle>4.6</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Tampa, FL</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Tregg Duerson</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>5-10</TD><TD align=middle>180</TD><TD align=middle>-</TD><TD align=middle>4.9</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Wilmette, IL</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Leo Ferrine</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-0</TD><TD align=middle>180</TD><TD align=middle>4.4</TD><TD align=middle>5.2</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Jersey City, NJ</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Justin Hoskins</TD><TD align=middle>RB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>5-11</TD><TD align=middle>190</TD><TD align=middle>4.4</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Grand Rapids, MI</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Chauncey Incarnato</TD><TD align=middle>OL</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-6</TD><TD align=middle>280</TD><TD align=middle>5</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Dover, OH</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Junior Jabbie</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-0</TD><TD align=middle>185</TD><TD align=middle>4.4</TD><TD align=middle>-</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Princeton, NJ</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>John Kadous</TD><TD align=middle>OL</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-7</TD><TD align=middle>310</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Tucson, AZ</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Terrail Lambert</TD><TD align=middle>DB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-0</TD><TD align=middle>185</TD><TD align=middle>4.43</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Ventura, CA</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Brandon Nicolas</TD><TD align=middle>DE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-5</TD><TD align=middle>260</TD><TD align=middle>4.86</TD><TD align=middle>5.6</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Santa Ana, CA</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Ronald Talley</TD><TD align=middle>DE</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-3</TD><TD align=middle>233</TD><TD align=middle>4.76</TD><TD align=middle>5.5</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Detroit, MI</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>Anthony Vernaglia</TD><TD align=middle>ATH</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-4</TD><TD align=middle>218</TD><TD align=middle>4.5</TD><TD align=middle>5.9</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Orange, CA</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#dddddd><TD align=left>Darius Walker</TD><TD align=middle>RB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>5-11</TD><TD align=middle>197</TD><TD align=middle>4.45</TD><TD align=middle>5.7</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Buford, GA</TD></TR><TR><TD align=left>David Wolke</TD><TD align=middle>QB</TD><TD align=middle>

</TD><TD align=middle>6-3</TD><TD align=middle>205</TD><TD align=middle>4.68</TD><TD align=middle>5.4</TD><TD align=middle> </TD><TD align=left>Smyrna, TN</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Praise Weis in the win
Blame Ty in the loss

Well atleast I can say I say this kind of behavior coming

 

[irish4life99]

I think it's obvious to almost everyone that we are winning games because of the coaching. But when it comes down to helmet to helment, position to position, we still do not match up in physical pure athletisism. This is something that cannot be coached and the current coaches are doing the best with what was left them. This is obvious when we meet the very physical teams i.e. tOSU and UM. We are a mediocre talent football team with little or no depth. CW is restocking the empty cupboard, but it will take time.

 

[Irish Envy]

Praise Weis in the win
Blame Ty in the loss

Well atleast I can say I say this kind of behavior coming

Way to skew the point. It certainly is your MO.

 

[NDAlumSon]

Wow, AV was a 4 star prospect?
This is a weak class. No question.

 

[irish4life99]

Wow, AV was a 4 star prospect?
This is a weak class. No question.

Even without the transfers it was a weak class.

 

[Irish52]

When a university selects its 7th choice for head coach, it's not because you want to win, its because you simply want to field a football team knowing you are going to loose. Now, can we all get off the "blame Willingham" bandwagon. Charlie must get a super 2007 class if we are to contend next year. I think his first 8 selectiions are super..but can he get other 4/5 star players currently in the mix. If not, we have more trouble ahead. I'm trying my best to remain positive and optimistic, but it's getting harder.

 

[CharlotteND]

One thing I noticed on that list is the number of guys with 4.4-4.5 speed, since that's supposedly one of the things were missing. It just goes to show, an effective football player is a lot more than just a fast 40 time. I don't care if you've got 4.25 speed, if you're cutting left when you should be cutting right, and biting on misdirections, a tenth of a second in your 40 time isn't going to make much difference. Here's to hoping that we can recruit guys with speed that know what to do with it.

 

[guff]

Willingham's recruiting classes were effectively probation. ND was on probation for three years and now they are coming out of it.

 

[NDAlumSon]

One thing I noticed on that list is the number of guys with 4.4-4.5 speed, since that's supposedly one of the things were missing. It just goes to show, an effective football player is a lot more than just a fast 40 time.

Being new to this whole recruiting business, I take Svo's warning to me, about taking the numbers reported about recruits with a grain of salt, seriously.
Height and weight seemed to be reported differently all over the place.
Which makes me really suspicious of 40 times especially.
For me speed is like porn, I know it when I see it.
Unfortunately I don't see a lot of it in key positions this year.

 

[dth31]

We love our school and our team, almost like they were our child. We see the good and the potential in everything they do, and it is difficult for us to be coldly objective about them because, to various degrees, our love and devotion colors what we see, think and believe.

For the most part, we have seen our team play with passion and emotion these last 2 seasons. We have applauded their successes when they won and wanted to believe that they were really better than their losses. This belief has been infectious, and extends beyond the long-standing ND fans. The national polls have ranked us high. We must be “back”, right? We must be ready to challenge for a national championship!

I would ask whether perhaps we have been guilty of being proud parents, rather than coldly objective.

We have legitimate talent at some positions. I don’t want to name names, but it is not difficult to identify players who would be stars on virtually any team, who “make plays” that significantly influence the outcome of games. However, as a whole, we have a team of good players who try their very best and who the coaches have playing close to their best nearly every week. That’s all anyone can expect. Unfortunately, as previous posters have identified, across the entire team, there are not enough “very good” and “great” players, which a team needs to seriously compete for a national championship.

It’s OK to be a proud parent when it comes to our team and our university. But just like our own children, our expectations should be realistic. All children will not be straight A students. To expect and demand that a child achieve straight A’s when they do not have that ability is not fair to the child and it ends up hurting the child’s self confidence and damaging the relationship to the parent.

If this team were my child, I would be encouraging it and not harshly criticizing it. This is a team and group of coaches that are over-achieving. They had a bad game yesterday, but bad games happen to all teams. Teams with great talent and coaching can have bad games and beat very good opponents. This team cannot. When the coaches and players do their very best, they can compete with anyone. But that does not necessarily mean they will win. Against the very best teams there is no margin for error.

Let’s not be too hard on this team or the coaches. They all expect a lot of themselves, and they are their own harshest critics. And the future is bright. ND is again a national force in recruiting. CW is loading up on talent. National Championships are in the future.

But it’s hard to wait, isn’t it?

And lastly, this has been a great board. Like a family, it should be nurtured. Let’s not let one bad game damage the relationship of our family. Good people contribute to this board. One bad posting day does not mean they are no longer good people. Like a good child who made a mistake, just don’t repeat the mistake. It will continue to be a great board!

 

[marv81s]

My fellow ND fans, IT WAS ONE GAME!! Even the 85 bears got blown out one game by the dolphins the year they won the super bowl. Big differrence I know, but the point is, blow outs happen, especially when you turn the ball over 5 f'n times. ND blew the game in ever way you can. You can't turn the ball over 5 times to a good team and expect to win. How many points did Michigan get off of those turnovers? I lost count after 21, thinking it had to be around 27 or 31 points off of their turnovers. Give a team like them a short field and the total lack of focus that ND had, you get what happened yesterday. We have 10 games left to go this season, so there is still a ton of football left. I don't expect ND to come out and look like they did yesterday for the rest of the season. The players got caught up in the hype and thought all they had to do was show up and play half ass and they would win the game. Now they know that isn't the case, and the coaching staff will have their shit together from here on out, and not let that team look like that again. Are we there talent wise? No, but we have a good coaching staff, and if this team concentrates and executes, they can play with anybody. They just have to play 60 minutes of football and execute.

Thats just my opinion, I could be delusional and totally wrong, but I really think Weis can do a lot with a half ass talented team, just imagine what he can do with a talent laden team in a couple years.

 

[80domer]

Michigan was ready to play, the Irish were off their game and did not match the Michigan instensity. Quinn hasn't found his game yet, for whatever reason. I suspect he will find it soon.

I think the Irish defense is going to struggle with power teams this year and probably next year. This was a Ty like loss in every sense except the most important one, the team did not give up. The real test is going to be how they respond next week. If they can win and start a streak against teams they should beat, they can turn this into a successful season. Win at SC and you never know.

 

[irishfan81]

only one good one Darius and the rest of em can hit the trails bad class.

 

[gipper2nd@yahoo.com]

Some of you guys are missing one important fact. Whether a player is a one star or a five star should have nothing to do with how hard he plays! I saw a lot of bad play out there, that had nothing to do with size or speed! I'm looking for nasty & tough,................ a lot of it is attitude. I sure didn't see it against Michigan.

 

[BGIF]

Some of you guys are missing one important fact. Whether a player is a one star or a five star should have nothing to do with how hard he plays! I saw a lot of bad play out there, that had nothing to do with size or speed! I'm looking for nasty & tough,................ a lot of it is attitude. I sure didn't see it against Michigan.

Were you in the bathroom for Wooden's stick? A kid that got ripped the past couple of years for an apparent lack of desire to make body contact. Wooden made a hit that Zibowski dreams of. And He's still paying for that hit.

Guess you missed Landri's blocked XP. That wasn't tough, huh?

Grimes fumbled in traffic. It wasn't his attitude, he's a kick returner, a kamikaze. It was improper execution. He held the ball wrong and lost it.

Quinn let the ball slip out of his hand, threw another pass across the field while rolling the other way. He was beaten like a rag doll, had turf plastered to his helmet and got back up again, and again, and again. That wasn't tough enough for you? Yes, he and others made mistakes, errors. And CBs got beat by well executed pass plays. Tough guys can make bad plays.

 

[jiggafini19]

Notre Dame needs elite recruits at the line of scrimmage on both sides of the ball.

Even with last year's O line haul, they will need a second this time around to support it.

Nuss-Miller-Romine-Nwankwo-Summers Gavin. It could happen. And will.

As for the D Line, I'd look for 2-3 DT playing next year. Not starting, but rotating into the mix. I think Laws and Hand will be the starters, but look for guys like Paddy Mullen, Barksdale, Blackwell to step in and make significant contributions.

At DE you will have Talley, Ryan, Richardson to go along with Wade, Trattou, Neal, Ben Martin.

The amount of talent coming in is going to be sickening. And they're going into the mix from the get go just due to sheer lack of numbers on the roster.

The future is very bright.