Tough Choice: Irish flag or Irish 4 Provinces Nationalist Flag

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

Irish flag:

Four Provinces:

Both are cool.. can't make a decision.

 

[shark83]

the green white & gold

 

[BGIF]

the green white & gold

The last panel's orange, as in William of Orange.

 

[irishnd31]

Got my tri-color flag in my office next to the ND flag.

 

[shark83]

The last panel's orange, as in William of Orange.

yes I know. slip of the tongue don't know why I said Gold other than out of habit.

 

[TexasDomer]

For the William of Orange thing alone, I prefer the four province flag. Here's hoping that Northern Ireland ultimately reunites with the rest of Eire.

 

[BGIF]

yes I know. slip of the tongue don't know why I said Gold other than out of habit.

Gold and blue along with green and white covers ND's unis.

 

[BGIF]

yes I know. slip of the tongue don't know why I said Gold other than out of habit.

Apparently it's not an uncommon slip.

In numerous songs and poems, the colours are enumerated incorrectly as "green, white and gold. Flags based on this will have a yellow stripe rather than an orange one. This is actively discouraged by the state. Having "gold" in place of "orange" may variously be interpreted as simple poetic license, a throwback to the green and gold flag of nineteenth century nationalism, or a desire to downplay the symbolism of "green" Ireland being in harmony with Orangeism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ireland

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

For the William of Orange thing alone, I prefer the four province flag. Here's hoping that Northern Ireland ultimately reunites with the rest of Eire.

It would be nice to see...although it will be a LONG time. From what I have seen, the general populace of Northern Ireland does not support unification of the two. However, should that change, I would support the decision to unite the two.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

People want stability. But there is definitely a strong sentiment for unification. It won't happen, however, until bigoted organizations like the DUP are completely removed from power and attitudes change over time.

The last time I was in Belfast (a couple of months ago, actually) I asked a Sinn Fein sympathizer---whose dad had been in and out of prison for years for his involvement in the RA---whether he ever expected to see unification in his lifetime, and he told me that if it happened, it would be right before he died.

Generational change is really slow and for things to work out the jingoism needs to die. That, in essence means that for things to work out, anyone with any memory what-so-ever of the Troubles will have to be long gone before unification.

And if this slow process works, the IRA will have won because they are the ones who ended the status quo and forced Britain to make the concessions which allowed for peace. And really, it's almost contradictory that the IRA would win its first objective through a long-term peace.

But you can have the most optimistic view imaginable and have it completely ruined by just visiting Belfast on the 12th of July.

 

[onenybrother]

The Green Black and Red.

 

[NDgettysburg]

yes I know. slip of the tongue don't know why I said Gold other than out of habit.

not really a uncommon as you might expect.....DeValera wanted the tri-colour to be green, white and yellow instead of orange. His preference was that the yellow represent the Vatican. The orange was a sop to the Free State's protestant population.

I voted for the 4 Ps flag if you can find a nice sewn one instead of and el cheapo silk-screen printed one. SF shop sells a nice one....hint hint.

 

[TexasDomer]

For my money, the gold harp on the green background is a great flag. Many of the Irish regiments and brigades on both sides of the US Civil War used it as their colors.

There are some great Mort Kunstler prints that show this:

http://www.mortkunstler.com/gallery/merchant.ihtml?pid=61&step=4
http://www.mortkunstler.com/gallery/merchant.ihtml?pid=804&step=4
http://www.mortkunstler.com/gallery/merchant.ihtml?pid=46&step=4
http://www.mortkunstler.com/gallery/merchant.ihtml?pid=47&step=4

 

[NDgettysburg]

For my money, the gold harp on the green background is a great flag. Many of the Irish regiments and brigades on both sides of the US Civil War used it as their colors.

And you'll note that the harp is actually the original national symbol of Ireland, not the shamrock.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

It was a hard choice, but I went with the four province flag. I was buying something on Sinnfein already with some of the money I had left from my summer job, so I figured I might as well get a flag for the room.

You can find a tri-color just about anywhere, so, that's what made me choose the more unique of the two in the end.. even if Bobby Sands' (and everyone, really, for that matter) coffin was covered with the tri-color.

It's a win-win situation

 

[NDgettysburg]

It was a hard choice, but I went with the four province flag. I was buying something on Sinnfein already with some of the money I had left from my summer job, so I figured I might as well get a flag for the room.

good choice...did ya get the one that's around $40? if so, it'll be a good quality flag. the aoh division I belong to got our tricolor from them. nicely made flag, good material, all sewn, will last forever. I have a 4 provinces flag that was made in Dublin...don't know if the flagmaker is even in business any more though.....net search turned up nothing. but it's the same....all pieces sewn on....and it's the proper proportion too (Irish flags twice as wide as they are tall).

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

good choice...did ya get the one that's around $40? if so, it'll be a good quality flag. the aoh division I belong to got our tricolor from them. nicely made flag, good material, all sewn, will last forever. I have a 4 provinces flag that was made in Dublin...don't know if the flagmaker is even in business any more though.....net search turned up nothing. but it's the same....all pieces sewn on....and it's the proper proportion too (Irish flags twice as wide as they are tall).

Nope, I got the cheap, $19 one. Hopefully it won't be plastic, lol.

 

[NDgettysburg]

Nope, I got the cheap, $19 one. Hopefully it won't be plastic, lol.

Its probably silk-screened. Hope it's a good job. I've seen alot of those where you can see right through them if there's any sun behind them at all.

 

[shark83]

Apparently it's not an uncommon slip.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Ireland

No it's not. If i was describing the flag to someone I would have said green white & orange, but he hknows the colours so I just gave the common/usual reference to Green White & gold

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

And if this slow process works, the IRA will have won because they are the ones who ended the status quo and forced Britain to make the concessions which allowed for peace. And really, it's almost contradictory that the IRA would win its first objective through a long-term peace.

It's also interesting to see that a terrorist group like the IRA can bring itself to accept peaceful means...

Go figure.

 

[NDgettysburg]

It's also interesting to see that a terrorist group like the IRA can bring itself to accept peaceful means...

now if only the opposition could....they might get somewhere. of course, if the supposed "third party" would hold the opposition's feet to the flames in the same way they do the ira side, things might have been over long ago. problem is, they're not a 3rd party but a complicit partner in maintaining the status quo because they refuse to believe colonialism is dead.

 

[TexasDomer]

Yeah. The main difference I see between the IRA and the RUC is that one is state-sponsored.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

Yeah. The main difference I see between the IRA and the RUC is that one is state-sponsored.

Yep.. anyone who knows anything knows that the biggest terrorist organization in the north of Ireland was the British government.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

now if only the opposition could....they might get somewhere. of course, if the supposed "third party" would hold the opposition's feet to the flames in the same way they do the ira side, things might have been over long ago. problem is, they're not a 3rd party but a complicit partner in maintaining the status quo because they refuse to believe colonialism is dead.

The people of Northern Ireland have not voted to leave the UK. Until they do, its not about colonialism...

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

The people of Northern Ireland have not voted to leave the UK. Until they do, its not about colonialism...

It's a population game and the Irish-Catholics are on the winning side. They need to wait for the population to reach voting age.

And besides, it's not like the Irish-Catholics don't want more than anything to reunite the island... they are just scared. They know that the huns still have as many arms as anyone and that the first thing they'll do after a reunification vote is to spark a civil war, thereby forcing British intervention and a return to the status quo.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

It's a population game and the Irish-Catholics are on the winning side. They need to wait for the population to reach voting age.

And besides, it's not like the Irish-Catholics don't want more than anything to reunite the island... they are just scared. They know that the huns still have as many arms as anyone and that the first thing they'll do after a reunification vote is to spark a civil war, thereby forcing British intervention and a return to the status quo.

The Brits would let them go if they vote for devolution. Have no doubt about that.

And yes, it is a numbers game now.

But don't forget up until 10 years ago Ireland was the second poorest nation in the EU. They have only recently turned it around, thus making it attractive to many in Northern Ireland.

Frankly the whole situation is screwed up in general.

But I cannot in any way support the IRA...not after Warrington (I was in a small village outside of Warrington that day)

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

But don't forget up until 10 years ago Ireland was the second poorest nation in the EU. They have only recently turned it around, thus making it attractive to many in Northern Ireland

Not really. Protestants still despise Ireland and the Celtic Tiger did nothing to change that perception. There are very few moderates, owing to the fact that moderation didn't offer much safety in the past.

As for your Warrington comment, there's no doubt that the IRA did more than its fair share of ugly things. The whole campaign in England was flawed---the IRA was actually split over whether it was the right strategy---but it did give the nationalists a considerable amount of weight at the negotiating table.

Do I sympathize with the IRA? Not now. I sympathize with Republicanism, but I don't think violence will further the cause at this time. In the past, I would have sympathized to a great extent.....as for the future, well, who knows?

 

[NDgettysburg]

The people of Northern Ireland have not voted to leave the UK. Until they do, its not about colonialism...

please.....that's like saying slavery wasn't the issue in 1861 because the slave owners didn't vote to abolish it. a vote doesn't mean a whole hell of alot when the outcome has been pre-determined due to districting that favors one segment of the population. you know as well as I do why the "new" Ulster contains only 6 of the original 9 counties.

As far as the ira goes, I hope you hold just as much contempt for the loyalist groups, the british army, british govt AND Irish govt for that matter. no one is innocent but my hardest feelings are for the goverments who are supposed to be above it all and focused on doing what's best for the country and ALL of its people.

 

[Óglaigh_na_hÉireann]

As far as the ira goes, I hope you hold just as much contempt for the loyalist groups, the british army, british govt AND Irish govt for that matter. no one is innocent but my hardest feelings are for the goverments who are supposed to be above it all and focused on doing what's best for the country and ALL of its people.

Yeah, the """""""Irish""""""" Defence Force is Britain's lap-dog.

 

[LOVEMYIRISH]

please.....that's like saying slavery wasn't the issue in 1861 because the slave owners didn't vote to abolish it. a vote doesn't mean a whole hell of alot when the outcome has been pre-determined due to districting that favors one segment of the population. you know as well as I do why the "new" Ulster contains only 6 of the original 9 counties.

A plebicite is just that. Have one and sort it out. That simple. They did milder versions in Scotland and Wales. They can do a more definitive one in N.Ireland. Pure population, no counties...just 1 man, 1 vote.

As far as the ira goes, I hope you hold just as much contempt for the loyalist groups, the british army, british govt AND Irish govt for that matter.

I hold contempt for anyone who believes blowing up babies is a politcal statement or solution.

That includes all the paramilitary organizations involved in N.Ireland. Whether it the UVF or IRA.

Terrorists are terrorists...and none of these people were Freedom Fighters...as many might paint them.