'11 GA DE Stephon Tuitt (Signed Notre Dame LOI)

[ThePiombino]

Tuitt is nothing but a smart man. He will live all his life with the money of his first contract even falling to the second round.

I think you're confused about NFL 2nd round rookie contracts.

 

[EuropeanDomer]

I think you're confused about NFL 2nd round rookie contracts.

Why?

If he is selected with the 38th overall pick (same as Manti) he will get $3,186,870 only as guaranteed money. Is that not enough to live the rest of your life if you have a good head on your shoulders? And this is the worst case scenario, he probably will have a long career and of course he could be drafted in the first round.

 

[ThePiombino]

Why?

If he is selected with the 38th overall pick (same as Manti) he will get $3,186,870 only as guaranteed money. Is that not enough to live the rest of your life if you have a good head on your shoulders? And this is the worst case scenario, he probably will have a long career and of course he could be drafted in the first round.

No, it's not. After taxes, what's he taking home? I'm not an accountant so I don't know - clearly the state would matter, but let's say he takes home 1/2 after federal and state taxes. Now that's $1.6 million. Let's say he lives to be 80 - that's another 50ish years for him. That's about $32K/year. Can YOU live comfortably on that? I know my family and I couldn't...

 

[DillonHall]

Tuitt should definitely leave if he has a second round grade. I have a hard time he'd have difficulty improving his stock at the combine.

 

[Irish Insanity]

This may be an unpopular stance, but I think he should go. Assuming that he returns to get his degree.

He knows what an injury can do to a year, like off season surgery and it taking so long to get going this year. He played next to Nix this year and watched him only get to play half of the year. Also bringing the youth in next year on the line he will have a lot more attention paid to him. You've had a great ND career and I wish you back for selfish reasons, but won't be the least upset if you go.

 

[koonja]

This may be an unpopular stance, but I think he should go. Assuming that he returns to get his degree.

He knows what an injury can do to a year, like off season surgery and it taking so long to get going this year. He played next to Nix this year and watched him only get to play half of the year. Also bringing the youth in next year on the line he will have a lot more attention paid to him. You've had a great ND career and I wish you back for selfish reasons, but won't be the least upset if you go.

You're insane.

It's a lot easier to say 'well I'll come back and get my degree some other time' than actually do it. Unless you don't make it in the NFL I guess.

Everyone thinks he can get into tip-top shape by the combine, but based on what? He didn't recover from a hernia in a year, what makes you think he's ready and willing to get into shape? Makes more sense to take 9 months and get into shape, prove your sophomore year wasn't a fluke, and of course, leave with a ND degree.

He underperformed all year, was over weight, and became a 2nd rounder because of it. The risk/reward doesn't add up to taking the 2nd round money, degree-less IMO.

 

[NDdomer2]

I am torn. he can obviously come back be a monster and go top 15 in a perfect scenario. But I don't see any reason he couldn't go around 20 this year with good combine. Really tough spot IMO. there is risk reward to both.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

How's the weather?

 

[cody1smith]

Why?

If he is selected with the 38th overall pick (same as Manti) he will get $3,186,870 only as guaranteed money. Is that not enough to live the rest of your life if you have a good head on your shoulders? And this is the worst case scenario, he probably will have a long career and of course he could be drafted in the first round.

LOL Part of that money is benefits for his family union dues and things of that nature. By the time you take out taxes on 3 million made in one year I would bet he would not end up with a liquid 1.3 million dollars. Hardly enough to live your life on. Seeing a new car when he turns 65 is gonna cost --100k+

 

[NDdomer2]

But your expenses more than likely don't come close to Te'o's expenses.

who also got a top notch education with endless connections. he should live absolutely more comfortable than the majority of the population

 

[Irish To The Core]

No, it's not. After taxes, what's he taking home? I'm not an accountant so I don't know - clearly the state would matter, but let's say he takes home 1/2 after federal and state taxes. Now that's $1.6 million. Let's say he lives to be 80 - that's another 50ish years for him. That's about $32K/year. Can YOU live comfortably on that? I know my family and I couldn't...

Actually, you cannot assume the taxes are as bad as all that. A good agent will set him up as a corporation and corporate taxes are much lower than what individual wage earners pull down. If a player has his head screwed on straight and listens to the advice he is given, $3 mill. is plenty to set one up for like.

 

[RyCo1983]

Actually, you cannot assume the taxes are as bad as all that. A good agent will set him up as a corporation and corporate taxes are much lower than what individual wage earners pull down. If a player has his head screwed on straight and listens to the advice he is given, $3 mill. is plenty to set one up for like.

This, and let's face it...he's going to play...for likely a good bit longer than the average NFL career lasts providing he doesn't go down with an injury. He's going to be a force, and will certainly earn more than just his base salary.

 

[cody1smith]

Actually, you cannot assume the taxes are as bad as all that. A good agent will set him up as a corporation and corporate taxes are much lower than what individual wage earners pull down. If a player has his head screwed on straight and listens to the advice he is given, $3 mill. is plenty to set one up for like.

How many corporate taxes have you paid? corporate federal income tax alone is around 35 percent. Throw state in there and its pushing 45 percent. Then once the corporation pays him he would have to pay social security Medicare ect. Plus his corp. would have to pay double the social security as an individual working.

 

[Irish#1]

You're insane.

It's a lot easier to say 'well I'll come back and get my degree some other time' than actually do it. Unless you don't make it in the NFL I guess.

Everyone thinks he can get into tip-top shape by the combine, but based on what? He didn't recover from a hernia in a year, what makes you think he's ready and willing to get into shape? Makes more sense to take 9 months and get into shape, prove your sophomore year wasn't a fluke, and of course, leave with a ND degree.

He underperformed all year, was over weight, and became a 2nd rounder because of it. The risk/reward doesn't add up to taking the 2nd round money, degree-less IMO.

It happens every year. Anyone who thinks they're getting drafted or has a chance, goes to one of these sports clinics and gets in top shape. At the clinics they work on all of the tests (physical and mental) the NFL conducts at the combine. They can have him ready in plenty of time. The NFL drafts as much on potential as they do ability. They can easily rationalize some of his poor performance due to the hernia operation.

 

[WakeUpEchoes]

Actually, you cannot assume the taxes are as bad as all that. A good agent will set him up as a corporation and corporate taxes are much lower than what individual wage earners pull down. If a player has his head screwed on straight and listens to the advice he is given, $3 mill. is plenty to set one up for like.

So you're telling me that an agent can set up a corporation with Tuitt being the sole owner, and he can funnel his personal wages through the corporation, thus get capital gain treatment? No freaking way.

 

[Voltaire]

So you're telling me that an agent can set up a corporation with Tuitt being the sole owner, and he can funnel his personal wages through the corporation, thus get capital gain treatment? No freaking way.

Along these lines, Phil Mickelson is sponsored by KPMG, which does primarily accounting and tax advisory work, and Phil got in trouble earlier this year for complaining that he would need to consider moving out of California because his personal income tax rate is 60+% after factoring in local, state, and federal taxes. If a dude who is sponsored by an accounting and tax advisory firm is paying taxes at a rate that high, then certainly most other professional athletes are paying at the highest tax rates as well. Pro athletes (other than those living and working in states without state income taxes like Texas or Florida) are certainly paying out about half their income in taxes and then still have to shell out for union dues and agent fees. That gross salary number gets winnowed pretty quickly.

 

[Wild Bill]

It happens every year. Anyone who thinks they're getting drafted or has a chance, goes to one of these sports clinics and gets in top shape. At the clinics they work on all of the tests (physical and mental) the NFL conducts at the combine. They can have him ready in plenty of time. The NFL drafts as much on potential as they do ability. They can easily rationalize some of his poor performance due to the hernia operation.

What if he gets injured during training? Nothing serious, just a simple muscle pull. How does he get into "top shape"?

 

[DillonHall]

What if he gets injured during training? Nothing serious, just a simple muscle pull. How does he get into "top shape"?

The same risk would exist next year

 

[Irish Houstonian]

So you're telling me that an agent can set up a corporation with Tuitt being the sole owner, and he can funnel his personal wages through the corporation, thus get capital gain treatment? No freaking way.

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. Don't do that. Even if you're a K-1 partner you still pay self-employment tax and regular income tax. And if you're setting up an S-Corp to avoid FICA/FUTA taxes then technically that's tax fraud (and you're still paying federal and state income tax).

 

[Wild Bill]

The same risk would exist next year

Sure. The difference, IMO, is that his combine performance will dictate whether or not he is drafted in the first round. If he comes back and dominates next year, I doubt a lackluster combine as a result of a minor injury would significantly drop his stock.

Point taken, though. He's got a tough decision to make.

 

[cody1smith]

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. Don't do that. Even if you're a K-1 partner you still pay self-employment tax and regular income tax. And if you're setting up an S-Corp to avoid FICA/FUTA taxes then technically that's tax fraud (and you're still paying federal and state income tax).

Right. You are way better off to pay the taxes personally and max out every single tax saving shelter possible.

 

[Irish93]

Right. You are way better off to pay the taxes personally and max out every single tax saving shelter possible.

Let's get back to the talk about Stephon. The comment about him being able to set up a corporation is idiotic. Even if you could do it (which you can't), you'd never set up a corporation and pay the double taxation.

 

[Irish To The Core]

So you're telling me that an agent can set up a corporation with Tuitt being the sole owner, and he can funnel his personal wages through the corporation, thus get capital gain treatment? No freaking way.

I have a couple of friends who are NHL players and that is exactly what they do. Of course you have to buy shopping malls or whatever, but they shelter there bucks big time. This is not second hand this is right out of there mouths. Mind you it is the Canadian tax laws, but as I understand it, the same applies to the U.S.

 

[cody1smith]

Let's get back to the talk about Stephon. The comment about him being able to set up a corporation is idiotic. Even if you could do it (which you can't), you'd never set up a corporation and pay the double taxation.

I know, I am not the one that said he could/should do that.

I have a corporation(s) and when it comes tax time you are always better off to take the money yourself pay the taxes personally rather than pay corporate taxes. Or at least in my tax bracket.
But if you could set up a corp. which to the best of my knowledge you cannot, I do not think he would have to pay double taxation on all of it. Maybe just some of the payroll taxes SS and MC.
If the corp has no money at the end of the year no taxes would be due to the corp. right?
The only taxes due would be any money that was taken out of the corp. that is not a deduction. Ala payments to himself would be a deduction if he is an employee of the corp. And he would be personally responsible for the taxes not the corporation.
I am not even close to a CPA and do not claim to be as I have to call mine almost weekly to figure out what is best for my situation.

 

[Irish To The Core]

How many corporate taxes have you paid? corporate federal income tax alone is around 35 percent. Throw state in there and its pushing 45 percent. Then once the corporation pays him he would have to pay social security Medicare ect. Plus his corp. would have to pay double the social security as an individual working.

Please! You are quoting income tax. Of course you know corporations operate under different regulations. The write offs available as a corporation is just not comparable to individual taxes. Mind you I am only familiar with Canadian taxes but I have spoken to several pretty close acquaintances (former teammates and students) who are/were NHLers and they all say the same thing...they were worried about the reaching the end of their career and their management teams set them up as corporation heads and also taught them about investing, etc. so that they would be set for life. It is all legit.

These are however not just "paper corporations". One of the guys owns a shopping mall and a concrete company, another guy owns an office building, and a ranch among other things. I am not saying I understand the the ins and outs but definitely investing their money saves them in taxes. $4 mil. guaranteed money for Tuitt would set him up. Maybe he should play in the CFL.

 

[Irish To The Core]

I am not saying any of you are wrong, not at all. I am sure Phil Mickelson did say he pays 60+%. Big oil companies throw out numbers like that too. But I know that they cherry pick those figures. A rich guy does not want to publicize how they can reduce their tax share, that causes bad publicity. I am saying just one thing: from 4 different sources, all Canadians playing in the NHL, their management (which of course takes 15% right off the top) set them all up with corporate designations and saved them an awful lot of money. Call me "idiotic" but on this I know I am correct.

 

[Irish To The Core]

But, the tax thing is really not the issue anyway. I think that Stephon will stay. His stats are way down from his Sophomore season. His play picked up as the season progressed but that surgery definitely set him back. I think many scouts will shy away from him saying that his great play as a sophomore was largely because of playing with a 100% Louis Nix and Mani Te'o. They will point out his added weight and question his work ethic. I don't believe any of those things and I am sure that if Stephon were to come back healthy from day one he will threaten Tuck's sack record. And he will be the true leader of the defense and a likely top 10 pick.

I think he jumped the gun back in November when he said he was staying, but I think he spoke truthfully and I doubt anything has changed. I hope I am right on this one.

 

[cody1smith]

I am not saying any of you are wrong, not at all. I am sure Phil Mickelson did say he pays 60+%. Big oil companies throw out numbers like that too. But I know that they cherry pick those figures. A rich guy does not want to publicize how they can reduce their tax share, that causes bad publicity. I am saying just one thing: from 4 different sources, all Canadians playing in the NHL, their management (which of course takes 15% right off the top) set them all up with corporate designations and saved them an awful lot of money. Call me "idiotic" but on this I know I am correct.

LOL there is a huge difference between setting up a corp. to funnel money through and actually having a working corp. that buys property, and actually operates a business. I do not think anyone will argue that there are ways to shelter your money from taxes. But simply starting a corp to "funnel money through" will not save any money. Remember legally any gain personal or corporate is taxable at some point. At some point them guys will have to pay taxes on there shopping malls?
Either way if he wants to buy fancy wheels for his cars and swimming pools legally he has to pay taxes.

 

[Irish93]

I am not saying any of you are wrong, not at all. I am sure Phil Mickelson did say he pays 60+%. Big oil companies throw out numbers like that too. But I know that they cherry pick those figures. A rich guy does not want to publicize how they can reduce their tax share, that causes bad publicity. I am saying just one thing: from 4 different sources, all Canadians playing in the NHL, their management (which of course takes 15% right off the top) set them all up with corporate designations and saved them an awful lot of money. Call me "idiotic" but on this I know I am correct.

Technically, I didn't call you an idiot (only the idea). You suggested that you could pay less tax by forming a corporation to run through your wages. That might be possible in Canada, but not the U.S.

 

[cody1smith]

Technically, I didn't call you an idiot (only the idea). You suggested that you could pay less tax by forming a corporation to run through your wages. That might be possible in Canada, but not the U.S.

Dang Canadians with their Cuban cigars, free health care and all inclusive trips to Cuba.