JFK

[Grahambo]

Can anyone really wrap their head around why the secret service pulled the president out of Dallas other than the fact that he was the president?A crime was committed, a part of me hopes that it was just the heat of the moment and thus is the reason why the reacted that way, just really makes you wonder what their motive was for doing that

It wasn't the Secret Services decision. It was one of JFK's top aide.

 

[rikkitikki08]

It wasn't the Secret Services decision. It was one of JFK's top aide.

Oh OK well still doesn't change the fact that it was the wrong decision to make

 

[ACamp1900]

One thing that always stuck with me is the fairly well known tape recording of important Mafia members, in Miami I think it was, discussing how they are going to hit Kennedy, "by the end of the year, in the South"... that Convo. was recorded about eight months before JFK was killed...

could be a coincidence, but there it is. I have read a quite a bit on this subject, I tend to believe SOMEONE else was in on it… who?.. who the hell knows? LHO doing it by himself certainly isn’t impossible or fantastical either in fairness.

 

[Cackalacky]

One thing that always stuck with me is the fairly well known tape recording of important Mafia members, in Miami I think it was, discussing how they are going to hit Kennedy, "by the end of the year, in the South"... that Convo. was recorded about eight months before JFK was killed...

could be a coincidence, but there it is. I have read a quite a bit on this subject, I tend to believe SOMEONE else was in on it… who?.. who the hell knows? LHO doing it by himself certainly isn’t impossible or fantastical either in fairness.

Yeah me too. I think there was definitely more than one person and therefor a conspiracy. Wasn't Bobby really going hard (or at least talking about going after) after organized crime at that time?

I just watched a video about a sound expert who took the Dallas motorcycle cop's cycle recording and identified 5 distinct shots (coming from the depository and the knoll) with the last two almost overlapping (would have been the head shot). The implication is that two shots from separate shooters fired simultaneously with one passing through the head from back to front, followed almost instantaneously by the other passing from the left to right, causing the "explosion" and movement of his head.

 

[phgreek]

So i thought it may be a good idea for a thread to discuss everyone's beliefs on what happened during the JFK assassination, with the 50th anniversary coming up next week and all. I do consider myself a history buff and have always been interested to hear others opinions on this topic because certain details of this case do indeed make you scratch your head. Do i believe that Lee Harvey Oswald did it? Yes i do. Do i also believe that another shooter was involved? Absolutely

I also found it interesting that at one point ( a year after his assassination) 80% of the American Population believed some type of conspiracy was involved

Yea...I've always been in the camp that said Oswald was in it...but that the kill shot was not Oswald's.

I just read an interesting book...The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ. I'll be honest, it stacks up a circumstantial case that makes the CIA look pretty bad...but I never got to the ...AhHa moment...good gathering of political facts surrounding the event and an interesting approach.

As far as Posner and some of the other twits who think they can belittle people into thinking it was just Oswald...sell that bridge elsewhere. You can't solve the physics riddle of momentum...so NOPE!

 

[ACamp1900]

Yea...I've always been in the camp that said Oswald was in it...but that the kill shot was not Oswald's.

I just read an interesting book...The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ. I'll be honest, it stacks up a circumstantial case that makes the CIA look pretty bad...but I never got to the ...AhHa moment...good gathering of political facts surrounding the event and an interesting approach.

As far as Posner and some of the other twits who think they can belittle people into thinking it was just Oswald...sell that bridge elsewhere. You can't solve the physics riddle of momentum...so NOPE!

Isn't that the truth... I loved when I saw him in an interview and he basically said in so many words that dumb Americans are won over by the Costner film... as if the theories started there... the film was inspired by and losely based on a couple of well read books, Crossfire: The Plot to Kill Kennedy and Best Evidence (I think those were the two) and I remember growing up with my parents and their friends discussing it LONG before the film came out, hell I remember arguing about it as school kids in the mid 80's...

 

[enrico514]

Literally all I know is that he was a great president with great hair who was assasignated and his father funded his campaign with liquor, lol.

In the off season, I'd love to get a history thread going. I'm also ignorant of Water Gate.

Like I said, I pretty much despised American Civics and US history in high school because both were taught by the same teacher.

And I'm not anti-teacher which it may sound, lol. We just really didn't like this one.

Family fortune was made through insider trading and stock manipulation.

 

[Jebediah Springfield]

just watched a really good doc on the Reelz channel. it was called JFK:the smoking gun.
it points to oswald firing 2 shots, missing on the 1st one and hitting JFK in the neck on the 2nd.
the 3rd and fatal headshot came from a secret service agent, hicky, in the Secret Service follow vehicle. it was a complete accident, but there was a cover up in order to save the secret service face--as one of their own had just accidentally shot and killed the president.

i've always prescribed to more of a conspiracy theory. "jfk" really opened my eyes, as the only thing we ever heard in school was oswald worked alone, but there were people that believed different, that was about all that was said. i'm not saying that i took oliver stones film as gospel, but it definitely sent me out to find my own answers.

my questions now, if agent hicky did accidentally discharge a round and it hit the president, how does everything else fall in to place so conveniently? i.e. oswalds movements after the shooting.

somehow caught 45 minutes after the shooting? after going home--killing a police officer (?), entering a theatre without buying a ticket--all in opposite directions of each other.
Biggie was killed on wilshire and Tupac on the strip in front of the MGM after a mayweather fight. how has there not been 1 arrest in either case? thats just REALLY convenient police work.

Dirty cops killed Biggie Smalls...

I never really paid any attention to this, but it looks like he got shot from the front to me...

I'm guessing 1,000 years from now people will still be trying to figure out what happened to him

 

[ACamp1900]

I love history... it was the only topic in school I really found legit joy in.

 

[Cackalacky]

Yea...I've always been in the camp that said Oswald was in it...but that the kill shot was not Oswald's.

I just read an interesting book...The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ. I'll be honest, it stacks up a circumstantial case that makes the CIA look pretty bad...but I never got to the ...AhHa moment...good gathering of political facts surrounding the event and an interesting approach.

As far as Posner and some of the other twits who think they can belittle people into thinking it was just Oswald...sell that bridge elsewhere. You can't solve the physics riddle of momentum...so NOPE!

The video I referenced above said you can see Kennedy moving forward just as his head opens up. He said a shot from the depository would have passed through moving his head forward followed closely by a shot from the knoll and the exploding head caused by the damage from the initial head shot. That along with the audio evidence ties a miss from the depository, a miss from the knoll, a hit from the depository hurting Kennedy and the Gov, and then the final two shots almost instantaneously.

I personally think the CIA was involved for several reasons and I do not think it is too far of a stretch to see how Dealy Plaza is a perfect kill zone.

 

[ACamp1900]

I personally think the CIA was involved for several reasons and I do not think it is too far of a stretch to see how Dealy Plaza is a perfect kill zone.

There is a lot to support this.. though it's not impossible to say LHO did act alone... I have seen 'experts', 'debunk' the audio stuff with the amount of gun shots as well...

 

[phgreek]

Isn't that the truth... I loved when I saw him in an interview and he basically said in so many words that dumb Americans are won over by the Costner film... as if the theories started there... the film was inspired by and losely based on a couple of well read books, Crossfire: The Plot to Kill Kennedy and Best Evidence (I think those were the two) and I remember growing up with my parents and their friends discussing it LONG before the film came out, hell I remember arguing about it as school kids in the mid 80's...

exactly...see, the thing is, the VERY FIRST TIME I saw the Zapruder film I had already been indoctrinated the other way...ie it was crazy Oswald. My parents explained it based on the government's story...In the mean time my brother and I lived a life time of Hunting, with large game animals in our sights...in addition to all manner of milk jugs full of water...frozen and not...even ones filled with gelatin and whatever else we could put in there to see which bullets were most effective...

so when we saw the film my brother and I literally came out of our chairs...LIARS!

Point is there are simply things you can't BS around...I can remember my dad laughing, and my mom being horrified...because they knew they had perpetuated an obvious, and ridiculous lie...not their fault.

I've been to dealy plaza...I've stood at the X...I've looked...IMHO you can't possibly get an angle that explains a vehicle moving away as it was even slowly...where a head would do that... That bullet, had it been fired from behind would have come out at a downward trajectory and removed face on the way out...much lower exit had it have been Oswald...that shot was damn near flat....again IMHO.

 

[ACamp1900]

The thing that opened a lot of this up, IMO, was the Warren Commission findings... I think, even if LHO acted alone, the WCR had so many holes that it opened the door for so many other ideas and theories.

 

[IrishinTN]

please re-read my post(s).

My question was more along the lines of only referring to Hicky. If it was Hicky's gun that killed the president, are you saying the other shots still came from the gunman? Not arguing, just trying to understand the theory on Hicky's gun. Never heard that one before.

in other words, Oswald and possibly someone else was shooting, but Hicky is the one who killed the president totally by accident. Is that right?

 

[ACamp1900]

There is a book on that theory... I remember reading it... I forget teh title though...

 

[UmphreakDomer]

My question was more along the lines of only referring to Hicky. If it was Hicky's gun that killed the president, are you saying the other shots still came from the gunman? Not arguing, just trying to understand the theory on Hicky's gun. Never heard that one before.

in other words, Oswald and possibly someone else was shooting, but Hicky is the one who killed the president totally by accident. Is that right?

it is the documentary's position, based on the book listed below, that, yes--the motorcade was under attack by sniper fire originating from the book depository. 2 shots were fired from "oswald" (i put oswald as this doc is merely about the forensics and ballistics, not the conspiracy theories of anything else). "oswalds" 1st shot missed and hit the street near the limo.

the 2nd shot is the "magic bullet" as it were. but they do a very good analysis about how connelly was in a jump seat which was lower and set to the middle of the car--so the whole u-turn theory is laid to rest. this shot entered the back of the presidents neck traveling through and into and out of and back into connelly--this all makes sense in the way its presented. these rifle shots were full metal jackets with a 6.5mm projectile.

at this point, this secret service agent, hicky, was reaching for and taking the safety off an AR-15 with hollow points--5.56mm. the gun discharged and was the subsequent "kill shot".

everything that ensues from there is the secret services attempt at a cover up. the warren report is falsified because A) they had their shooter, so, B) didn't need to defame the presidents "royal guard".

There is a book on that theory... I remember reading it... I forget teh title though...

Mortal Error: The Shot That Killed JFK

 

[Irish#1]

So many variables and questions.
1. Was Ruby hired to kill LHO to make sure he wouldn't talk and open the flood gates?
2. Why was everything rushed after JFK died? Today, nothing would be moved or touched until it was examined a 1,000 times by a 1,000 eyes.
3. Indeed, Bobby Kennedy was going after organized crime. It was his top priority while AG.
4. The Kennedy's were know to be somewhat reckless with their personal lives and beyond reproach. Many think Marilyn Monroe was killed by the SS to ensure she didn't expose JFK & RFK for the infidelities which would be a major taboo back then. It would have ruined their political careers.
5. The attempt to kill Castro exposed Kennedy for his taste to do things undercover without involving the typical parties and working through the normal channels. That's why the military didn't care for him.
6. All of these things plus a lot more are the reasons that so many conspiracies abound. Was it the Mafia, the Russians, the Secret Service or just LHO on his own?

 

[PANDFAN]

I'm also in my 20's, i just happened to have a US history teacher who made history extremely interesting. I have no idea how she managed to pull it off but she was one hell of a teacher

probably had big boobs

 

[ACamp1900]

it is the documentary's position, based on the book listed below, that, yes--the motorcade was under attack by sniper fire originating from the book depository. 2 shots were fired from "oswald" (i put oswald as this doc is merely about the forensics and ballistics, not the conspiracy theories of anything else). "oswalds" 1st shot missed and hit the street near the limo.

the 2nd shot is the "magic bullet" as it were. but they do a very good analysis about how connelly was in a jump seat which was lower and set to the middle of the car--so the whole u-turn theory is laid to rest. this shot entered the back of the presidents neck traveling through and into and out of and back into connelly--this all makes sense in the way its presented. these rifle shots were full metal jackets with a 6.5mm projectile.

at this point, this secret service agent, hicky, was reaching for and taking the safety off an AR-15 with hollow points--5.56mm. the gun discharged and was the subsequent "kill shot".

everything that ensues from there is the secret services attempt at a cover up. the warren report is falsified because A) they had their shooter, so, B) didn't need to defame the presidents "royal guard".



Mortal Error: The Shot That Killed JFK

Indeed. reps. I have read that...

 

[ACamp1900]

WTF does this have to do with the Conspiracy? LOL.

I fail to see what this has anything to do with his assassination lol I do agree though that now a days JFK would probably be considered a republican

Guys... try to keep up... Democrats from the future... namely Pelosi, Reid and Obama... Killed Kennedy...

 

[Cackalacky]

I have got to read this book.

JFKfacts » Why Roger Stone’s JFK book has to be taken seriously

Q. Your book reports on your conversations about JFK with Richard Nixon and John Mitchell about the assassination. How did you get these men to open up about such a sensitive topic?

I worked as a political advisor to President Nixon in his post-presidential years and spent many hours with him talking politics. Nixon liked a dry martini and he liked to talk politics. He was circumspect and never overtly said “LBJ did it” but he did say a number of things that more than indicate he believed this. My book details this. Nixon recognized Jack Ruby and knew him since 1947 as a “Johnson Man.” Upon seeing Ruby kill Oswald on national TV Nixon recognized him — and understood what had really happened in Dallas.

I first met John Mitchell at the Republican National Convention in 1968 when I was a volunteer assigned to the messenger pool. He wrote me a letter of recommendation to Mort Allyn to secure me a post in the Nixon White House Press operation. I had little contact with him during Nixon’s re-election because I was the youngest staff member at CREEP (Committee to Re-Elect the President) and my boss, Herbert L. “Bart” Porter, and his boss Jeb Magruder, both warned me that “direct contact with Mr. Mitchell was out of the chain of command.”

By 1976, Mitchell was out of prison and quietly helping me line up Republicans for Ronald Reagan, convincing former Kentucky Governor Louie Nunn, to serve on the “Citizens For Reagan” being chaired by Senator Paul Laxalt. Mitchell had a small office in Georgetown. We used to drink at a bar in Georgetown called the Guards. Mitchell confirmed that many of the same things Nixon said to me he had also said to Mitchell. Mitchell shared his own conversations with Nixon.

Also beneficial were my interviews of Ambassador John Davis Lodge who confirmed that his brother Henry Cabot Lodge, JFK’s Ambassador to Vietnam, had knowledge of the involvement of the CIA and Lyndon Johnson in JFK’s murder. I also interviewed long time Nixon aide Nick Ruwe who probably spent more waking hours with “RN” than any other individual, as well as John P. Sears, whose insights into Nixon and his thinking were invaluable.

I also had the opportunity to talk to Governor Jesse Ventura who’s research confirmed the link between the Bay of Pigs, JFK’s assassination and the downfall of Nixon in Watergate.

Q: In his memoir Bob Haldeman speculated that when Nixon spoke of “the whole Bay of Pigs thing” he was actually referring to JFK’s assassination. Did Nixon ever use that phrase in your conversations?

RS: Nixon ran a covert CIA operation to assassinate Fidel Castro when he was Vice President. Some of the CIA operatives and assassins involved in these plans, altered but not canceled after JFK’s surprise election, ended up working for the CIA in the Bay of Pigs fiasco. These same men, E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis were involved in the JFK assassination. They would surface again in Watergate.

It is important to recognize that in 1963 Nixon was completely out of power and considered politically washed up. Like LBJ, Nixon still burned to be President but he was considered finished. Nixon understood the connection between the Bay of Pigs and the Kennedy assassination and came to understand Johnson’s role in Kennedy’s murder. After his comeback election in 1968, Nixon demanded all CIA records on the JFK assassination seeking them for leverage and insurance.

In my book I make the case that Watergate, like the JFK assassination, was a coup d’etat a in which the CIA participated. Once CIA veteran James McCord was brought in on the Watergate burglary plan, the CIA knew what Nixon’s minions were up to. The Bay of Pigs, the JFK assassination and Watergate are thus inextriplicably linked.

Nixon’s effort to get the CIA to instruct the FBI to back off the Watergate investigation was a threat to expose the CIA involvement in the murder of JFK, which he knew grew out of the Bay of Pigs Invasion failure.

Interviewer: I have always been personally skeptical about the “LBJ did it” theory because I don’t see much evidence that Johnson or his cronies knew about the existence of Lee Oswald, much less had contact with him or the ability to manipulate him. If LBJ organized the death of JFK what is your theory/evidence about who organized the patsy role for Oswald?

RS: While Johnson was the primary mover of the assassination there is no doubt that the conspirators including the Dallas Police Department, the Dallas County Sheriff’s Office, both perhaps unwittingly as well as the Secret Service and the FBI, as well as rogue elements of the CIA. The agency set Oswald up as a patsy when fingerprint evidence demonstrates conclusively that the shooter from the sixth story window of the Texas Schoolbook Depository building was in fact Malcolm “Mac” Wallace, a longtime LBJ henchman whose ties to Johnson are thoroughly established and documented in my book.

Interestingly, LBJ acknowledged to both his mistress, Madeline Brown and his Chief of Staff, Marvin Watson, that the CIA was involved in Kennedy’s murder — not exactly his Warren Commission’s conclusion. LBJ was facing political ruin and prosecution and jail for corruption when he insisted on JFK’s visiting Texas and when Gov. John Connally insisted on visiting the Trade Mart and on the motorcade through Dealy Plaza.

I also delve in the LBJ the man. He was a monster. Power hungry, crude, vulgar, abusive, sadistic,vicious and often drunk, this is a man who reveled in his aides’ discomfort by conducting meetings while sitting on the toilet defecating. He had at least three illegitimate dhildren, two of whom are still living. I tie LBJ to at least eight political murders in his ascent to political power and his quest for money. Johnson’s capacity for lying, cheating and crime knew no bounds, which is why Jacqueline Kennedy said, “I never liked Lyndon Johnson and I never trusted him” and why Robert Kennedy described him as “an animal.” LBJ was a murderer, and perhaps even a functional lunatic.

“The difference between me and LBJ was, we both wanted to be President but I wouldn’t kill for it” Nixon told me in 1989.

 

[ACamp1900]

I haven't read the Nixon, LBJ or Bush stuff but there are theories for each of them being behind it... smh

 

[phgreek]

I have got to read this book.

JFKfacts » Why Roger Stone’s JFK book has to be taken seriously

Good book...I read it and then listened to it on audible...I liked the audible version...although I'm old and still gotta read everything first...

 

[ACamp1900]

I also had the opportunity to talk to Governor Jesse Ventura who’s research confirmed the link between the Bay of Pigs, JFK’s assassination and the downfall of Nixon in Watergate.

Did he honestly name Jesse Ventura with the intent of naming a credible source... lmao...

Q: In his memoir Bob Haldeman speculated that when Nixon spoke of “the whole Bay of Pigs thing” he was actually referring to JFK’s assassination. Did Nixon ever use that phrase in your conversations?

RS: Nixon ran a covert CIA operation to assassinate Fidel Castro when he was Vice President. Some of the CIA operatives and assassins involved in these plans, altered but not canceled after JFK’s surprise election, ended up working for the CIA in the Bay of Pigs fiasco. These same men, E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis were involved in the JFK assassination. They would surface again in Watergate.

It is important to recognize that in 1963 Nixon was completely out of power and considered politically washed up. Like LBJ, Nixon still burned to be President but he was considered finished. Nixon understood the connection between the Bay of Pigs and the Kennedy assassination and came to understand Johnson’s role in Kennedy’s murder. After his comeback election in 1968, Nixon demanded all CIA records on the JFK assassination seeking them for leverage and insurance.

In my book I make the case that Watergate, like the JFK assassination, was a coup d’etat a in which the CIA participated. Once CIA veteran James McCord was brought in on the Watergate burglary plan, the CIA knew what Nixon’s minions were up to. The Bay of Pigs, the JFK assassination and Watergate are thus inextriplicably linked.

Nixon’s effort to get the CIA to instruct the FBI to back off the Watergate investigation was a threat to expose the CIA involvement in the murder of JFK, which he knew grew out of the Bay of Pigs Invasion failure.

This^^ Just fvking wow...

Even if it's bullshit, the imagination to come up with all that is impressive.

 

[UmphreakDomer]

So many variables and questions.
1. Was Ruby hired to kill LHO to make sure he wouldn't talk and open the flood gates?
2. Why was everything rushed after JFK died? Today, nothing would be moved or touched until it was examined a 1,000 times by a 1,000 eyes.
3. Indeed, Bobby Kennedy was going after organized crime. It was his top priority while AG.
4. The Kennedy's were know to be somewhat reckless with their personal lives and beyond reproach. Many think Marilyn Monroe was killed by the SS to ensure she didn't expose JFK & RFK for the infidelities which would be a major taboo back then. It would have ruined their political careers.
5. The attempt to kill Castro exposed Kennedy for his taste to do things undercover without involving the typical parties and working through the normal channels. That's why the military didn't care for him.
6. All of these things plus a lot more are the reasons that so many conspiracies abound. Was it the Mafia, the Russians, the Secret Service or just LHO on his own?

i don't mean to throw a curveball, but the WTC was being shipped out almost as soon as the buildings fell to the ground. another botched investigation/report purposefully negating facts and logic for a reason we will ultimately never know.

 

[Cackalacky]

Did he honestly name Jesse Ventura with the intent of naming a credible source... lmao...



This^^ Just fvking wow...

Even if it's bullshit, the imagination to come up with all that is impressive.

JV is a very big JFK buff. From what I read in that interview, Roger Stone has a lot of **** to say and thinks JV has provided some serious links (E. Howard Hunt deathbed interview). I have always heard of or read bits and pieces of things that led me to think the CIA or the mob was involved, but to see that someone state Ruby was a LBJ guy, and LBJ had ties to the mob, Hoover, and CIA assets ties together a lot of what I have read and understood. What I did not know was much about LBJ as a person.

 

[Grahambo]

The Secret Service had nothing to do with it to include the coverup.

 

[Cackalacky]

OpEdNews - Article: Jesse Ventura Exposes the JFK Assassination Conspiracy Nationally
Ventura's interview with E. Howard Hunt. CIA operative during the Cuban era and hated Kennedy. Also a member of the Watergate break-in crew

 

[ACamp1900]

He was killed because he wanted to expose UFOs

Secret memo shows JFK demanded UFO files 10 days before assassination | Mail Online

He was killed by Australians wanting to sell newspapers.

The Christchurch Star and the assassination of John F. Kennedy, 1963 - Christchurch City Libraries

He was killed be by Daddy Bush, who wanted moar oil!!

JFK MURDER SOLVED - Reward

He was killed by the CIA because of Cuba

OpEdNews - Article: JFK assassination: CIA and New York Times are still lying to us

He was killed by Cuba

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...j4D4Aw&usg=AFQjCNEo3xoBtQY6HgTbj53t9he3uf4oPw

Starbucks killed JFk, either to sell some espresso… or just for the fvcking fun of it…

What is a JFK in Starbucks jargon

The mob killed JFK… because, well duh, they’re the freaking Mob…

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...O9If9IZY1lUQHm3xxcVTUxw&bvm=bv.56343320,d.b2I


I guess Mick Jagger was right when he said, “I cried out, who killed the Kennedy's?!?... When after all it was you and me.”

 

[ACamp1900]

JV is a very big JFK buff. From what I read in that interview, Roger Stone has a lot of **** to say and thinks JV has provided some serious links (E. Howard Hunt deathbed interview). I have always heard of or read bits and pieces of things that led me to think the CIA or the mob was involved, but to see that someone state Ruby was a LBJ guy, and LBJ had ties to the mob, Hoover, and CIA assets ties together a lot of what I have read and understood. What I did not know was much about LBJ as a person.

OpEdNews - Article: Jesse Ventura Exposes the JFK Assassination Conspiracy Nationally
Ventura's interview with E. Howard Hunt. CIA operative during the Cuban era and hated Kennedy. Also a member of the Watergate break-in crew

Sometimes the messager kills the message... the guy is bat **** crazy... I'll buy the Starbucks thoery before I take anything he has to say about anything seriously.