Kmoose at game? Post game observations vs Navy

[kmoose]

As did Navy's OL against the Irish 'D'. I know the Irish were depleated somewhat on defense but, no excuse for the domination that Navy showed up front.

GO IRISH!!!!!!!!
Diz

I agree with that. We should have won the individual 1 v 1 matchups way more than we lost. But we didn't. Not sure why. However.............. this was one of those games that really exposed how weak our ILBs are. They weren't able to make many (if any?) plays behind the LOS. I don't even recall them meeting a runner at the edge of the defense, either, come to think of it.

 

[Dizzyphil]

I agree with that. We should have won the individual 1 v 1 matchups way more than we lost. But we didn't. Not sure why. However.............. this was one of those games that really exposed how weak our ILBs are. They weren't able to make many (if any?) plays behind the LOS. I don't even recall them meeting a runner at the edge of the defense, either, come to think of it.

Yep....I believe Nix not being in was more mental for the LBs, DBs, and safeties more than some want to believe. If Nix is in, Navy may be more apt to run outside the tackles. I know they did but, the rest of the Irish defense then had to worry about the middle and if Nix is in, they focus more on the outside lanes. This is not to say the same results may have occured but, Nix has a presence that helps the rest of the 'D'. When Nix is in Tuitt is more agressive and it seemed there was a huge lack of agressiveness on the 'D' yesterday. More of the play coming to them than the 'D' going after the play.

GO IRISH!!!!!!!!!
Diz

 

[Dizzyphil]

p.s.

Singleton does not get those 'up the middle' easy four or five yards if Nix is in IMHO.

GO IRISH!!!!!!!!
Diz

 

[Bogtrotter07]

ND O-line should dominate the undersized academy kids every time... just saying

Agreed. They did that. This game was their highest yard per carry average, maybe ever coming close to 10 a carry. And Tommy had all day. It was a beautiful thing. Remember, that was with two new starters, too!

 

[IrishFaninTX]

As did Navy's OL against the Irish 'D'. I know the Irish were depleated somewhat on defense but, no excuse for the domination that Navy showed up front.

GO IRISH!!!!!!!!
Diz

Navy's offense did win the battle against ND's Dline but not quite as well as ND's OL won against Navy's DL. ND avg 7.3 ypc and Navy avg 4.7. We got almost 3 more ypc than Navy did. We had over 250 yards but only ran the ball 36 times. They ran the ball 70 times and didn't even have 100 yards more than we did. Add in that we had close to 250 yards passing and they didn't even have 100 and you can see which offense was more dominating. The difference in the game was TJ falling down which resulted in a pick, a holding call that negated Cam's TD right before the pick and then a bad pass by Tommy that resulted in another pick though they didn't score off that turnover. One could argue the bogus unnecessary roughness call on 3rd down was another almost nail in our coffin. Nothing went wrong for Navy. They had 0 penalties. How does that even happen when they were holding a lot? Our D played poorly but Navy's D played even worse. We got lucky to get the win because of a few things that didn't go our way but make no mistake, our offense abused their D worse than they abused our D. For pete's sake, they allowed a 40 yard TD by not even our best RB on the 1st drive of the game.

 

[Dizzyphil]

Navy's offense did win the battle against ND's Dline but not quite as well as ND's OL won against Navy's DL. ND avg 7.3 ypc and Navy avg 4.7. We got almost 3 more ypc than Navy did. We had over 250 yards but only ran the ball 36 times. They ran the ball 70 times and didn't even have 100 yards more than we did. Add in that we had close to 250 yards passing and they didn't even have 100 and you can see which offense was more dominating. The difference in the game was TJ falling down which resulted in a pick, a holding call that negated Cam's TD right before the pick and then a bad pass by Tommy that resulted in another pick though they didn't score off that turnover. Our D played poorly but Navy's D played even worse. We got lucky to get the win because of a few things that didn't go our way but make no mistake, our offense abused their D worse than they abused our D. For pete's sake, they allowed a 40 yard TD by not even our best RB on the 1st drive of the game.

True enough. But I believe it to be the other way around. IMO, Navy abused the Irish defense more than the Irish abused Navy's. The way the Irish went up and down the field should have been expected. The way Navy ran over the Irish was not to be expected.

GO IRISH!!!!!!
Diz

 

[Bogtrotter07]

True enough. But I believe it to be the other way around. IMO, Navy abused the Irish defense more than the Irish abused Navy's. The way the Irish went up and down the field should have been expected. The way Navy ran over the Irish was not to be expected.

GO IRISH!!!!!!
Diz

You realized the ND defensive line may have been coached that way?

 

[phgreek]

Something I will never understand is why the coach or in this case Diaco [assistant coach/D-coach] gets the blame if the defense does bad.

All he can do is set up the best scheme and hope his players execute. Last week they did pretty good against the option.

2012 against Navy they did really good against the option (other than some deep passes that were unexpected).

In 2011 they held Navy to 229 total yards, and that same year they beat Air Force although they had a little more success but none the less they won that game.

In 2010 they lost to Navy but a few weeks later they absolutely dismantled Army (another option team).

So Diaco has had his success against option teams, I am sure his philosophy has not changed much. His game plan might have because of personnel reason but that is about it.

So here is a crazy thought maybe this team (which contained Air Force last week pretty good) just didn't execute like they should have done.

Not Diaco's fault, at least not the whole blame.

This...

Its real simple...If you are consistently getting engaged and that happens beyond the LOS...you are catching blocks...when you are catching blocks you are A) worried about getting cut and not dictating B) transfixed by the action in the backfield, and your guy gets into you...the solution for a lot of yesterday is discipline. No one on the field has an excuse. Navy unbalanced or not...if folks play disciplined and down hill, this wasn't close.

 

[drayer54]

They pretty much did. ND had 264 yards rushing on 36 attempts. That's a 7.3 yard per carry average, as a team. That's pretty much dominating the LOS.

Totally agree. It just shouldn't be in the top moments when they move those skinny future paper pushers around.

 

[Dizzyphil]

You realized the ND defensive line may have been coached that way?

Yeppers, just pawns in chess. Play the call that is sent in...

GO IRISH!!!!!!!!
Diz

 

[Patulski]

For all you people complaining about the safeties being too deep:

Here's a 3rd and 5 screenshot. Farley is one yard from the 1st down line, while the pitch man getting the pitch and is positioned 9 yards from the 1st down line. The guy blocking Farley is a 5-7 160 pound sophomore. The shrimp dominates Farley and Navy gets the 1st down by 5 yards.

There's a reason Kelly made a point in his Press Conference about the necessity to " whip the guy. Farley failed. It had nothing to do with scheme.

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[phgreek]

For all you people complaining about the safeties being too deep:

Here's a 3rd and 5 screenshot. Farley is one yard from the 1st down line, while the pitch man getting the pitch and is positioned 9 yards from the 1st down line. The guy blocking Farley is a 5-7 160 pound sophomore. The shrimp dominates Farley and Navy gets the 1st down by 5 yards.

There's a reason Kelly made a point in his Press Conference about the necessity to " whip the guy. Farley failed. It had nothing to do with scheme.

[/URL][/IMG]

...Yup. Instead of blowing up the blocker on the way to the ball...we wait...to get blocked...all effing day

 

[Dizzyphil]

...Yup. Instead of blowing up the blocker on the way to the ball...we wait...to get blocked...all effing day

Audacity augments courage; hesitation, fear.

- Publilius Syrus


GO IRISH!!!!!!
Diz

 

[GowerND11]

One thing people must realize too is why the academies run the triple option. It's the great equalizer. The triple option is the perfect offense for a team that is undersized, disciplined, quick (not fast), and feisty. It also is great at keeping their undersized defenses off the field. We can argue about schemes and the fact that ND should dominate, but at the end of the day these teams run this offense very well because of the aforementioned characteristics. Now, the defense didn't play very well, but while watching the game I did not feel like Diaco was at fault. It seemed, as others have stated, that defenders were hesitant and reactionary. They did not attack the blocks and really accepted the blocks and accepted the runners allowing them to fall forward.

 

[Bogtrotter07]

A) Kelly said that the defensive line was set in a two point stance and taught to be reactive for this game instead of firing off low and hard, and I am just pointing out what he said. (Why be so common as to try to be insulting?)

B) ND offensively only had 4 third downs in the game, this scoring on 6 out of 8 posessions. Navy wasn't close to that kind of tsunami!

C) Notre Dame had their best offensive line performance 7+ running and 9+ overall with four first year starters and two starters witho only one game between them! Think about it!

D) The safeties or Corners play side did not have contain or pitch man. Or even quarterback. There was no rotation like last week, let alone over the course of the game. Ask anyone who knows about such things. I did and was told, "there was no evidence of a defensive scheme specialized to attack a triple option offense, at all tonight."

The best guy for my money is Sean Mele over at ISD. Someone who has a subscription, please write him and verify. I will stand corrected.

 

[stlnd01]

The thing that struck me was how incredibly quick Navy was off the ball on offense. There were times when I almost thought they were jumping the snap early, but I guess they are just that precise.

As a result they were sometimes over the line of scrimmage with the ball before we were even engaged, especially on runs up the middle (where I do think the lack of Nix to clog things up hurt us). This accentuated our reactive approach on defense, and made it very hard for us to create negative plays for them.

I understand why we didn't, but the occasional linebacker/safety blitz might have thrown them off.

 

[IrishJayhawk]

The thing that struck me was how incredibly quick Navy was off the ball on offense. There were times when I almost thought they were jumping the snap early, but I guess they are just that precise.

As a result they were sometimes over the line of scrimmage with the ball before we were even engaged, especially on runs up the middle (where I do think the lack of Nix to clog things up hurt us). This accentuated our reactive approach on defense, and made it very hard for us to create negative plays for them.

I understand why we didn't, but the occasional linebacker/safety blitz might have thrown them off.

I thought they were false starting quite often. THey also did that thing where all of the linemen turned their heads and shoulders, which sure as heck looked to me like a group false start.

But they do run that offense really efficiently.

 

[TheSunIsRising]

I thought they were false starting quite often. THey also did that thing where all of the linemen turned their heads and shoulders, which sure as heck looked to me like a group false start.

But they do run that offense really efficiently.

There did seem to be several occasions where they had a man in motion, and then another started to move before the snap. I haven't re-watched, but am specifically going to look at some of those again. I have always found they get away with officials looking the other way on some procedure/illegal shift calls.

 

[phgreek]

A) Kelly said that the defensive line was set in a two point stance and taught to be reactive for this game instead of firing off low and hard, and I am just pointing out what he said. (Why be so common as to try to be insulting?).

ok...not sure why, but assume smarter folks than I saw something that made them go that way...I never did that...But I think all that would be intended is for folks to neutralize whatever moved at them, vs firing to a specific assignment and engaging on the way...so you still shouldn't be catching as bad as we were...IMHO. SOME of it may be explained by NAVY getting a cheat start as others mentioned...but I need to rewatch to see that...all of that being used to qualify...they ran all the hell over our D...and some of it at key moments, and right over A gap...

B) ND offensively only had 4 third downs in the game, this scoring on 6 out of 8 posessions. Navy wasn't close to that kind of tsunami!

that was nice, but close enough

C) Notre Dame had their best offensive line performance 7+ running and 9+ overall with four first year starters and two starters witho only one game between them! Think about it!

that was nice

D) The safeties or Corners play side did not have contain or pitch man. Or even quarterback. There was no rotation like last week, let alone over the course of the game. Ask anyone who knows about such things. I did and was told, "there was no evidence of a defensive scheme specialized to attack a triple option offense, at all tonight."

all I know is tackling was horrible...and too much waiting around outside the attached line...seemed like folks were staring in the backfield, and blockers would get into them, and they couldn't beat the blocker and hold leverage...lots of ways to teach defending this I guess...I just assume outside leverage and take it to the blocker first....be an athlete when you know you are a better athlete than the guy attacking you...can't do that on your heels...waiting

The best guy for my money is Sean Mele over at ISD. Someone who has a subscription, please write him and verify. I will stand corrected.

...like to see a pro's breakdown too...good post bogs

 

[Bogtrotter07]

...like to see a pro's breakdown too...good post bogs

Thanks so much bro from ano mo!

Kelly explained that the linemen were supposed to be reactive and prepared to travel down the line of scrimmage. But I like your point. With Navy that seems just to be an invitation to be knocked back to next Tuesday!

 

[Senoj13]

This isn't some great revelation and I'm sure its been discussed over previous games, but I think the absence of Teo is killing the effectiveness of the D-Line. Where teams had to dedicate at least 1 OL to block Teo last year, it seems that teams are more willing to leave our LBs unblocked and double team Nix, Tuitt, etc. I think teams have figured out ND really lacks playmakers in the 2nd and 3rd levels and will take their chances on the double teams up front.

 

[NDBoiler]

One thing I thought should be considered more in the aftermath of not being able to blow out Navy was the fact that they had ZERO penalties OR turnovers. IMO that should count for something by still being able to win when your opponent does something remarkable like that.